Nitto Mid-Pipe Check Engine Light fix

[Jerkratt]

so i have the mid pipe and i remember before the hack there was a "help!" part number for the o2 censor was wondering if anyone still had that part number as i wanna go there and get one

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

i believe its HELP part #4240 at any parts store.

[Return of the Yarii]

anti seize

[jronald]

Found this link. Hopefully, this will work..

http://http://www.paladinmicro.com/MustangMILEliminator.htm

[cali yaris]

wow.

[battleversiontc]

wow is right i never even knew you could do it that way

[ddongbap]

Lol. Trick-my-o2-sensor.com !

[Klink10]

Did you have any problems with the mating of the mid-pipe? Someone out there had a source for a custom extension for the sensor. Can't remember who though. Been really considering getting this so I can add my header but waiting till the bugs are finally gone.

[03Z33]

What some people have done is have the muffler shop weld a tight 90deg bung on the pipe which will then allow you to stack the two extenders without the sensor coming in contact with anything below. The wire is just barely long enough.

[Jerkratt]

so....then 1 wont work?

[whooppee777]

E-mail this guy wayne92slc@yahoo.com he makes a piece that will move the o2 sensor far enough away from the gasses to the point where it doesnt set a CEL. he has them in stock $38 shipped. i will be ordering mine next week

[Klink10]

Thanks Whooppee....saving that for later

[at3GG]

To any who have the nitto, when you removed your stock mid, did you have a problem "unscrewing" the o2 sensor? I tried to remove it to wrap the midpipe with thermal wrap and it sun a couple of times then just seemed to wedge where it was. Anyone else have this happen?

To those with a custom midpipe...if i bring my car to have a custom mid made, should i assume that there will be no CEL issues or should i inform them of the issue? Also around how much did it run you guys? Thanks.

[Malaya1221]

jerkratt, need to use both of those defoulers...been using the defouler now for 1 week after i installed a new header, NO CEL!

kuro, u might just want to wait until the ecu relearns!

[CASTREX]

To those with a custom midpipe...if i bring my car to have a custom mid made, should i assume that there will be no CEL issues or should i inform them of the issue? Also around how much did it run you guys? Thanks.

The CEL is NOT an issue...:biggrin: Is just the sensor doing it's job.

The function of the sensor behind the primary cat is to monitor the adecuate functionality of the cat converter.
When you remove / delete the cat converter the sensor obviously will sence a cat failure and throw a CEL.

The Nitto midpipe is a catless unit threfore it will trigger the CEL.

When you say you are going for a custom mide pipe are you planning to go catless also? If so you will have a CEL and you will need one of the already mentioned CEL fixes.

If you keep your cat or install a new cat to the custom midpipe you should be alright and will not need any fix.

Just my recomendation:

Keep the cat... the gains for going catless should be minimal on this engine. Just ask your shop to make your midpipe from the cat back...

[Malaya1221]

^ didn't even notice that u only used one of them....yeah the other one might help!

[eTiMaGo]

meh! i got these ramps that make it easy to get under the car, and i kinda like messing with it :tongue:

i put the 2nd antifouler on tonight, just had to drop the pipe off its hangers to get a bit more clearance :smile:

A woman who enjoys going down on her car... :wub: :biggrin:

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

The CEL is NOT an issue...:biggrin: Is just the sensor doing it's job.

The function of the sensor behind the primary cat is to monitor the adecuate functionality of the cat converter.
When you remove / delete the cat converter the sensor obviously will sence a cat failure and throw a CEL.

The Nitto midpipe is a catless unit threfore it will trigger the CEL.

When you say you are going for a custom mide pipe are you planning to go catless also? If so you will have a CEL and you will need one of the already mentioned CEL fixes.

If you keep your cat or install a new cat to the custom midpipe you should be alright and will not need any fix.

Just my recomendation:

Keep the cat... the gains for going catless should be minimal on this engine. Just ask your shop to make your midpipe from the cat back... :clap: besides that i do believe EVERYONE experiences a CEL with the defouler eventually.on the other hand the soldering of the wires looked to be a good deal though........

[Smokey159]

I wonder what the soldering of wires does to the fuel mappping, if anything.

[03Z33]

I wonder what the soldering of wires does to the fuel mappping, if anything.

As stated above, the second O2 sensor does not affect fuel mapping in any way, it is only in place to confirm to the ECU that the catalytic convertor is in place and functioning properly. Even with this sensor completely removed your performance and fuel mileage will not change.

[largeorangefont]

:clap: besides that i do believe EVERYONE experiences a CEL with the defouler eventually.on the other hand the soldering of the wires looked to be a good deal though........

No they don't. If you don't get a CEL in the first littel bit, you will probably never get one. I have been installing mechanical CEL fixes on my customer's cars for years. Some cars need 2, or the 90 degree bung method works as well.

I like the anti foulers better than the soldering method. The mechanical method can never fail.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

No they don't. If you don't get a CEL in the first littel bit, you will probably never get one. I have been installing mechanical CEL fixes on my customer's cars for years. Some cars need 2, or the 90 degree bung method works as well.

I like the anti foulers better than the soldering method. The mechanical method can never fail.

:laugh: REALLY, please elighten us as to who accomplished this.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

yay! 100 miles with both antifoulers and no cel... in your opinion, is this a permanent fix? any idea what i can expect at next year's emissions test?

if you have no problems GREAT but ive seen some on here who drove for 2 weeks with nothing and then BLAM...........

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

for me its an experiment, if this thing doesn't fix it then it will be time for plan B :wink:

however, i am wondering what you mean by BLAM :eek: something other than the cel go wrong?

NO it just happens all of a sudden......

[cali yaris]

I love innuendo... :biggrin: I know it's important to get tested regularly, but... :laugh:

Kuro, We don't have to smog this car here in CA for five years (then it's every other year). Do you have different rules there?

[at3GG]

I didnt mean "issue" like that castrex, i meant having the CEL come on and bug us as we drive. I know its just the ECU doing its job. If i do keep the cat like you suggest, will larger diameter piping after it do that much? Isn't the cat what is most restrictive on our cars? Or is it the small diameter piping?

[CASTREX]

I have seen the cats on the inside and they look good. Not very restrictive. Very similar to other expensive high flow cats I've seen.

On my car I did removed the secondary cat and leave the OE primary cat on as I saw no need to remove it.

To me the most restrictive part of the exhaust is the pipe between the resonator and the axle. It's all crushed.

If you are interested on making the most out of your exhaust go for some smooth mandrel bent pipe on 2". If you can't get a mandrel bent pipe go 2.25" pipe.

Removing the cats will net you maybe a couple hp at the top end of the power curve. If you are hardcore and want to go all out then go for it.
But for normal every day driving you won't feel a difference.

In my opinion unless you are planning on doing serious motorsports with your car it doesn't really worth it.

Eventually when you have to take your car to an inspection you will have to instal a cat again. If that is not a problem then do it.

[largeorangefont]

oh! innuendo, eh... what i meant to say was, i've enjoyed wrapping both hands around the shaft of a tool and getting myself a nice long, fat, steely, sizzlin hot piece of PIPE! :tongue::laugh::rolleyes:




yay! 100 miles with both antifoulers and no cel... in your opinion, is this a permanent fix? any idea what i can expect at next year's emissions test?

You probably wont get a CEL , but if your state has a sniffer test, it will not pass without cats.

[largeorangefont]

:laugh: REALLY, please elighten us as to who accomplished this.

How hard is it to understand.. 1 or 2 antifoulers move the o2 sensor far enough out of the exhaust stream to not throw a Cat Inefficiency CEL when you are running catless.

I've used this method on hundreds of cars.. Subarus, Evos, Toyotas, Mustangs etc.

I did this on my WRX about 6 years ago. I didnt know about antifoulers then, but this was cleaner.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/largeorangefont/DSC00116.jpg

[at3GG]

Thanks castrex...I'll be leaving it right where it is. :thumbup:

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

How hard is it to understand.. 1 or 2 antifoulers move the o2 sensor far enough out of the exhaust stream to not throw a Cat Inefficiency CEL when you are running catless.

I've used this method on hundreds of cars.. Subarus, Evos, Toyotas, Mustangs etc.

I did this on my WRX about 6 years ago. I didnt know about antifoulers then, but this was cleaner.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/largeorangefont/DSC00116.jpg

YEAH, thats cool and all but what you fail to realize is the LEARNING ecu that will eventually catch on and prove my point......

[largeorangefont]

YEAH, thats cool and all but what you fail to realize is the LEARNING ecu that will eventually catch on and prove my point......

Rockland,

Your ECU is not scouring the internet looking for proof that you have screwed with it.. and throwing CELs when you wake up in the morning.

What you fail to realize is how an ECU works. ECUs operate on voltage signals from sensors. When voltage is out of an acceptable range on a given sensor for a certain amount of time, an CEL is given (or worse, it depends on the sensor).

By wiring in a resistor to give the ECU a different voltage reading, or by mounting the o2 sensor out of the stream of exhaust you change the voltage sent to the ECU. If the "new" signal is within accepted limits, a CEL is never thrown. These limits don't change, and the ECU does no "learning" for the rear o2 sensor.

If you don't throw a CEL in the first couple days, or couple hundred miles, you will probably never see one for cat ineffiecicy. These types of CELS are not thrown right away because cats are less effective when cold, and the ECU is programmed to account for that. Again, no "learning" involved.

[whooppee777]

How hard is it to understand.. 1 or 2 antifoulers move the o2 sensor far enough out of the exhaust stream to not throw a Cat Inefficiency CEL when you are running catless.

I've used this method on hundreds of cars.. Subarus, Evos, Toyotas, Mustangs etc.

I did this on my WRX about 6 years ago. I didnt know about antifoulers then, but this was cleaner.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/largeorangefont/DSC00116.jpg

if im not mistaken this is almost exactly like the piece that the wayne guy makes, the guy whose email i listed earlier

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

Rockland,

Your ECU is not scouring the internet looking for proof that you have screwed with it.. and throwing CELs when you wake up in the morning.

What you fail to realize is how an ECU works. ECUs operate on voltage signals from sensors. When voltage is out of an acceptable range on a given sensor for a certain amount of time, an CEL is given (or worse, it depends on the sensor).

By wiring in a resistor to give the ECU a different voltage reading, or by mounting the o2 sensor out of the stream of exhaust you change the voltage sent to the ECU. If the "new" signal is within accepted limits, a CEL is never thrown. These limits don't change, and the ECU does no "learning" for the rear o2 sensor.

If you don't throw a CEL in the first couple days, or couple hundred miles, you will probably never see one for cat ineffiecicy. These types of CELS are not thrown right away because cats are less effective when cold, and the ECU is programmed to account for that. Again, no "learning" involved. :clap: good explanation but i never said the wiring method was bad. just the fouler

[at3GG]

How much should a custom cat to axle exhaust run from a decent shop anyway?

[largeorangefont]

:clap: good explanation but i never said the wiring method was bad. just the fouler

The foulers do the same thing but mechanically. You are reducing the amount of exhaust gasses the sensor is exposed to, and skewing the reading. Some cars need 2 of them to keep from throwing CELs, one drilled for the sensor, and one undrilled.

[largeorangefont]

How much should a custom cat to axle exhaust run from a decent shop anyway?

Around $200-$250 depending on what muffler and tip you use.

If you use a turbo muffler and no tip you could probably get it under $200.

[cali yaris]

+1, I got my first custom one done for $280 in Van Nuys.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

The foulers do the same thing but mechanically. You are reducing the amount of exhaust gasses the sensor is exposed to, and skewing the reading. Some cars need 2 of them to keep from throwing CELs, one drilled for the sensor, and one undrilled.
:clap: ok so you finally got in your head what ive been saying except for the fact that even with the double fouler method that CEL still comes on. NO, who on here is running this setup and has no light.......

[Malaya1221]

no CEL!:cool:

[cali yaris]

Malaya, in 40 years when your car has over 5 million miles on it, you'll get a CEL -- Rockland knows. :smile:

[largeorangefont]

:clap: ok so you finally got in your head what ive been saying except for the fact that even with the double fouler method that CEL still comes on. NO, who on here is running this setup and has no light.......

See post #48.

[eTiMaGo]

I have this midpipe... since just about a year... and not a single CEL... :biggrin:

Truth be told I am quite sure the USDM ECU is way more stringent on the emissions stuff, hence the trouble you've all been having :fronw:

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

no CEL!:cool:

yeah cause you just put this on a week ago or so correct???

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

See post #48.

see post 51

[largeorangefont]

see post 51

That post would be great if it were correct. Again, that 02 sensor is just there to verify the cats are working.

[Malaya1221]

yeah cause you just put this on a week ago or so correct???

had it b4 for 6 months WITHOUT CEL turning on till WEAPON R header broke!

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

had it b4 for 6 months WITHOUT CEL turning on till WEAPON R header broke!

:laugh: awww should have done that right the first time.....

[Malaya1221]

:laugh: awww should have done that right the first time.....

i forgot you're an expert on YARIS!:iono: the CEL will turn on in 40 years, but 4 now i should be happy with CEL off!:thumbsup:

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

i forgot you're an expert on YARIS!:iono: the CEL will turn on in 40 years, but 4 now i should be happy with CEL off!:thumbsup:

hey, if you want to call me an expert for installing parts back on correctly then so be it....

[Malaya1221]

kuro, forget garm! u might want to ask rockland(our yaris in-house expert) about your CEL turning on he will definitely know the answer to that!:laugh:

[cali yaris]

kuro, forget garm!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Malaya !!!

[Malaya1221]

apologize for the offtopic:
cali_yaris, i don't think you know what you r doing, from now on i have rockland to solve my yaris problems!:eek::biggrin:

hey kuro, did you install the oem bracket to the dc header?

[Malaya1221]

^ keep us updated!

[cali yaris]

OOH BABY!!

(made my night)

[LtNoogie]

well... i don't remember which post said my ECU was not spying on me... but i think it is! :eek: cuz i got another CEL yesterday, LOL!

How are you clearing your CELs? I did not see a ScanGauge or equivalent listed in your YarisGarage.

[YarisSedan]

Why are you guys removing your cats anyways. 1 you remove all the backpressure which you need. Sure you will get more power but you are seriousely going to impact your fuel economy which is why most of us bought this car in the first place? Second for the slight power you are going to achive which could be only 5hp at the most as opposed to doing a midpipe from the cat back. You are going to cause an extreme amount of polution. As well as mess up egr function. Not to mention how loud it is going to be. So now if you dont like this sound you will have to choose to have a restrictive muffler to muffle the sound which you could just have a nice open muffler with a cat since a cat muffles sound more than your muffler does.

Also I know in california check engine light is automatic smog failure. Not to mention it would automatically fail anyways since you have no cat.

Unless someone can prove me wrong and have thier vehicle smoged without any cats on it would be interesting to see how much emissions our little engines produce. We do have 2 cats though and its not a zero emission vehicle even with those 2 cats. HC is going to be low probally but it probally has a problem with nox

[eTiMaGo]

Why are you guys removing your cats anyways. 1 you remove all the backpressure which you need. Sure you will get more power but you are seriousely going to impact your fuel economy which is why most of us bought this car in the first place? Second for the slight power you are going to achive which could be only 5hp at the most as opposed to doing a midpipe from the cat back. You are going to cause an extreme amount of polution. As well as mess up egr function. Not to mention how loud it is going to be. So now if you dont like this sound you will have to choose to have a restrictive muffler to muffle the sound which you could just have a nice open muffler with a cat since a cat muffles sound more than your muffler does.

Also I know in california check engine light is automatic smog failure. Not to mention it would automatically fail anyways since you have no cat.

Unless someone can prove me wrong and have thier vehicle smoged without any cats on it would be interesting to see how much emissions our little engines produce. We do have 2 cats though and its not a zero emission vehicle even with those 2 cats. HC is going to be low probally but it probally has a problem with nox

Some very valid questions there, here's my point of view.

1) Those who bought this car solely for the fuel efficiency will never want to get one of these anyway :biggrin: But there are some of us who like to balance the efficiency with some added fun.

2) Pollution, yes, this is a weak point of this product, as there are no cats it does dump raw exhaust. On the other hand, with "only" a 1.5L engine it produces just a fraction of the noxious stuff that you'd get from a catless V8, for example.

3) Noise? Ask anyone who has installed one, it actually really softens the exhaust note, what with 3 resonators... Totally different from a plain straight pipe.

4) OK, here there are no such things as smog checks. But for those in the US, it's relatively easy to swap back the original midpipe for the inspection.

So, as with any aftermarket part for a car, it's the owner's choice. As of the time of writing, this midpipe is the only "bolt-on" choice available, though it would certainly be nice to see some other company come up with a better alternative :smile:

[Klink10]

QUOTE: As of the time of writing, this midpipe is the only "bolt-on" choice available, though it would certainly be nice to see some other company come up with a better alternative

Agreed

[largeorangefont]

Why are you guys removing your cats anyways. 1 you remove all the backpressure which you need. Sure you will get more power but you are seriousely going to impact your fuel economy which is why most of us bought this car in the first place? Second for the slight power you are going to achive which could be only 5hp at the most as opposed to doing a midpipe from the cat back. You are going to cause an extreme amount of polution. As well as mess up egr function. Not to mention how loud it is going to be. So now if you dont like this sound you will have to choose to have a restrictive muffler to muffle the sound which you could just have a nice open muffler with a cat since a cat muffles sound more than your muffler does.

Also I know in california check engine light is automatic smog failure. Not to mention it would automatically fail anyways since you have no cat.

Unless someone can prove me wrong and have thier vehicle smoged without any cats on it would be interesting to see how much emissions our little engines produce. We do have 2 cats though and its not a zero emission vehicle even with those 2 cats. HC is going to be low probally but it probally has a problem with nox

Removing the cats does not remove all the backpressure, The car will make a couple HP more. Removing them will not change the fuel economy, and it will not mess up EGR either. The car will smell a bit, and may be slightly louder when catless.

It will not pass a sniffer test in CA, but cars do not need to be smogged for 6 years after buying a new car. Passing is as simple a swapping the midpipe to the stock unit for the smog check.

It has been proven that using a high flow cat will give you about the same HP as going catless. It may pass smog that way if the cat is placed in the correct spot, and the car won't smell. This would mean constructing a custom midpipe.

[03Z33]

Why are you guys removing your cats anyways. 1 you remove all the backpressure which you need. Sure you will get more power but you are seriousely going to impact your fuel economy which is why most of us bought this car in the first place? Second for the slight power you are going to achive which could be only 5hp at the most as opposed to doing a midpipe from the cat back. You are going to cause an extreme amount of polution. As well as mess up egr function. Not to mention how loud it is going to be. So now if you dont like this sound you will have to choose to have a restrictive muffler to muffle the sound which you could just have a nice open muffler with a cat since a cat muffles sound more than your muffler does.

Also I know in california check engine light is automatic smog failure. Not to mention it would automatically fail anyways since you have no cat.

Unless someone can prove me wrong and have thier vehicle smoged without any cats on it would be interesting to see how much emissions our little engines produce. We do have 2 cats though and its not a zero emission vehicle even with those 2 cats. HC is going to be low probally but it probally has a problem with nox

Just wanted to add my "$.02"...

1. My idle is smoother with the Nitto mid-pipe (less RPM hunting than stock)

2. My MPG is same or better than before the mid-pipe (consistent 37-42 MPG without any special tricks and A/C on 80% of the time)

3. Sound is 1,000,000 times better than stock IMHO. In fact I'm not running any muffler at all, just straight piping from the mid-pipe back to dual tips.

4. It takes a few days of driving for my CEL to return so I could always clear it and then get the car smogged before it returned

5. Our car is a ULEVII and not a PZEV, so I am confident it may actually pass smog without the cats in place, my 2003 350Z which was also a ULEVII passed without any cats in place just less than 1 year ago.

Keep in mind that I was one of the first to purchase this mid-pipe and did not know at the time that the "cats" are dummies, if I had known that this is removing the cats I may have not purchased. Now that I've had it on the car for a while, it's hard to imagine going back to stock, the sound and feel are just great!


oh, i'm not clearing them, just unhooking the negative battery terminal and resetting the ecu.

if i had a scangauge would the cel code tell me if its a leak at the collector? thats the other thing i suspect besides the O2 sensor, i was afraid of overtightening the spring bolts

By checking the DTC code, which can be done at most auto parts such as Autozone for free, you would be able to tell if the code is for "cat-inefficiency" or otherwise. That may be able to help you trouble shoot. In all honesty I believe that is most likely why you have the CEL as it's very unlikely that you'd have a leak that you couldn't either hear (vacuum hissing sound) or feel (by idling the car and inspecting from below).


Oh, and BTW, ROCKLAND is an annoying idiot! Why hasn't he been banned yet?

[largeorangefont]

By checking the DTC code, which can be done at most auto parts such as Autozone for free, you would be able to tell if the code is for "cat-inefficiency" or otherwise. That may be able to help you trouble shoot. In all honesty I believe that is most likely why you have the CEL as it's very unlikely that you'd have a leak that you couldn't either hear (vacuum hissing sound) or feel (by idling the car and inspecting from below).


Oh, and BTW, ROCKLAND is an annoying idiot! Why hasn't he been banned yet?

FYI - Autozone does not clear codes for free anymore. They want you to buy a OBD scanner.

Are you running any kind of CEL fix on your midpipe?

[03Z33]

I was not aware that Autozone don't help out anymore... Hopefully she can find another local shop to help out.

I've been too busy and lazy to stop back at the muffler shop to add the 90 deg style de-fouler, I've had the parts in my glove box for months. Right now I just have a single slightly longer than stock O2 bung since we didn't know how far it needed to be spaced out when I first installed this.

[Klink10]

My elbow is enroute now all I need is a pipe. Gonna do all this and header I hope when the Holdener manifold gets here. Interested in how yours will turn out with that elbow added.

[cali yaris]

I will be, they are already ordered.

Oh, and BTW, ROCKLAND is an annoying idiot! Why hasn't he been banned yet?

Amen.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

[QUOTE=cali yaris;161956



Amen.[/QUOTE]
thanks garm, it'll be remembered............

[Jerkratt]

come ons top the bitchering! dammit anyway im going to try to install the non foulers i have...

[at3GG]

Largeorange/cali Thats what i was thinking. I stopped at a shop i prefer around here and asked and the guy told me probably around 400 for a dual custom setup. I think he was figuring in mufflers but Ive got the megan on now and if i had them do the set up i would get another megan for the back i think. So maybe like $300 for a dual setup? I think i could live with that. Does anyone here have a dual setup? Not dual tip muffler i mean single tip on each side of the back of the car? If so I may reconsider or just go with the nitto.

*edit* although i suppose i dont want to have that extra weight for no extra power. I guess I'll just stick with a custom single or the nitto. It would look cool though.

[at3GG]

no opinions?

[Malaya1221]

flowmaster or magnaflow (i think) made that kind of exhaust for 1 of the LB member here, i forget who it was. don't know if it went on production though!

[at3GG]

Ahh thanks

[Jerkratt]

so did the CEL eliminator work that cali sent? i see hes selling them online but did u guys confirm it works?

[Split]

i used that elbow bend for 3500miles and no CEL. I am now selling that CEL fixer for +$35 shipped. (its a piece of metal and it looks brand new) That guy wayne builds to order, i had to wait over a month for mine before he even built it. Mine is ready to ship same day as purchase/payment and I can verify that it works!

[Thej3sta2]

post it up in the classiiiiissss

[Malaya1221]

been using HELP defouler for 3 wks now with no CEL!

[whooppee777]

i used that elbow bend for 3500miles and no CEL. I am now selling that CEL fixer for +$35 shipped. (its a piece of metal and it looks brand new) That guy wayne builds to order, i had to wait over a month for mine before he even built it. Mine is ready to ship same day as purchase/payment and I can verify that it works!

i bought one from wayne last week. got it saturday. took only a few minutes to install. CEL went away in less than 10 miles. it works

[cali yaris]

I have those in stock and they are cheaper from me. BOO on you whoopee :smile:

[whooppee777]

I have those in stock and they are cheaper from me. BOO on you whoopee :smile:

if i had been aware i would have bought from u and u know this