Most important guages for boosted engines?

[LtNoogie]

Once I install the Blitz, what three guages are most important for monitoring the health of the engine?

I already have a ScanGuage so I can monitor water temp.

[cali yaris]

not critical with supercharging, but I would say a boost gauge and oil pressure, since you already have water temp.

[battleversiontc]

boost, oil, pyrometer so if you hold it long you dont fry your pistons
i run all three for my turbod tc and water temp, and wideband,
my old supercharged delsol i ran those three and a wideband

[cali yaris]

oh yeah, add a wideband A/F that one is fun to watch too :smile:

[LtNoogie]

Ok, but other than fun to watch, will the A/F wideband warn me that something is about to blow up? I can see the point of oil pressure and water temp. Never knew the purpose of wideband.

[battleversiontc]

the pyrometer will tell you if your pistons about to melt. a/f wideband would tell you if its to lean or to rich or right on the money

[Nexus1155]

i would say boost/oil pressure/AFR.... any car that you plan on tuning correctly NEEDS a wideband... people think they can use the narrowband signal to tune... thats a bunch of hoohah, but the wideband will cost you a pretty penny over the others

[whooppee777]

who makes a good wideband AFR gauge

[largeorangefont]

If you have a turbo you will want:

Boost, EGT, oil pressure, water temp

If you are supercharged you will want:

Water temp, oil pressure, EGT, boost if you have extra $.

Wideband is fine for both, but EGT is going to be more important, especially in a turbo car.

If you have a scangauge, I would not waste the cash on a wideband. The scangauge should be able to monitor fuel pressure, which will give you a window into the fueling system. Between fuel pressure and EGT you will be able to tell if you have a fueling problem. EGT is more critical to the health of the engine, especially with a turbo.

If you are doing your own tuning however, then you will definately want a wideband.

[largeorangefont]

who makes a good wideband AFR gauge

AEM, Dynojet, Autometer, Innovate, Dynotune. You can get one from $250-$350 it just depends on what features you want.

[largeorangefont]

where are the rest of you locating the wideband a/f O2 sensor? header or midpipe? :confused: i really hate to drill a new hole on my header if i can locate it on the pipe

It needs to be before any cats, and clocked above 9 and 3 on the pipe to avoid sensor damage.

[largeorangefont]

on that nitto midpipe there's a few inches of pipe right behind the collector b4 the first resonator, that'll be a good spot... now if only i could weld :rolleyes:

a muffler shop will be able to handle it.

[Nexus1155]

i use innovate LM-1, but it is handheld and i have an extra one lying around somewhere... but on cars that people dont feel like getting a bung welded in, i use the exhaust clamp which gave me a steady 14.5 AFR reading at idle out of the Envoy i drive... and that was at the end of the tailpipe but the HPtuners scanner software read 13.06 :-/ whacky interfaces

[whooppee777]

what should the AFR be on a blitz supercharged yaris?

[largeorangefont]

what should the AFR be on a blitz supercharged yaris?

I would not got higher than 12:1. Mid 11s would be a very safe compromise.

I run my Cobra at 11.3 to one to keep EGTs down on the track.

[whooppee777]

i saw a pic of camelll's gauge reading 13.1 at 9 pounds of boost whats ur take on that?

[battleversiontc]

i use plx

[largeorangefont]

i saw a pic of camelll's gauge reading 13.1 at 9 pounds of boost whats ur take on that?


He said it dips to low/mid 11s after that though, which is fine. A second or 2 of 13:1 under boost after throttle tip in is not going to hurt anything.

[whooppee777]

well now that thats been all cleared up. does the blitz supercharger have an electronic clutch? i was reviewing the installation manual and the wiring diagram and it had this thing for an electronic clutch and i'm assuming thats apart of the S/C bcuz our car sure as hell doesnt have an electronic clutch

[anonymous user]

Agreed on all accounts with largeorangefont. The gauges are an indicator to monitor how your parameters are doing. An EGT meter is very important on FI cars, and i'd like to know your readings on track days, to see how hot this motor gets.

The lights on the dash, when they do on, usually it's too late. All the damage has been done, hence the need for gauges.

[LtNoogie]

And what would be considered too hot on an EGT guage? Do they typically have a green and red zone?

What would be the remedy?

[cali yaris]

the remedy is to stop driving.

I'm looking into some aluminum radiators for our cars, I know mine will benefit from running a little cooler under boost.

[rob323]

One item that will be on my car (an Echo, not a Yaris) before it starts competing will be a shift light, but not used as a shift light. It will be hooked up to the oil pressure sensor. By the time an oil pressure gauge drops, and by the time you actually notice it has dropped, it can be and usually is too late. A big ass bright light in your face on the other hand at least gives you a chance of saving your motor.

And for any forced induction car, a knock sensor and gauge.

[nemesisz]

who makes a good wideband AFR gauge

PLX Devices (http://www.plxdevices.com/)

They make a lot of different products. They are popular in the 300ZX and 350Z arenas. If I were to get a wideband Id get on of theirs, AEM or Innovative.

[largeorangefont]

And what would be considered too hot on an EGT guage? Do they typically have a green and red zone?

What would be the remedy?

I'd say 1500 F is time to start to be concerned. This is probably a bit conservative for the Yaris, and it varies depending on the car, piston type etc.

My WRX could hit 1600 no problem, and my Cobra rarely breaks 1400.

Turbo cars can get you into trouble because you can hit full boost at less than full throttle. An example would be going up a hill. If you go part throttle up a hill in a turbo car the boost will rise and you will see EGTs climb. This is where you can cause engine damage. This is precisely why EGT and boost gauges are needed on a turbo car.

The solution for this is to let off the gas and not make any boost, or floor it to get the car to the open loop fueling map and bring down the EGTs with extra fuel.

Supercharged cars do not have this problem because boost is limited by engine speed.

[largeorangefont]

the remedy is to stop driving.

I'm looking into some aluminum radiators for our cars, I know mine will benefit from running a little cooler under boost.


Your coolant temps are hot under boost? or EGT?

[LtNoogie]

Ok, I need a little bit more clarification.

A wideband A/F will read exhaust O2 levels and calculate whether I'm running lean or rich.

An EGT will measure my exhaust gas temperature.

I already have an O2 sensor in my header. Do I need to have a muffler shop poke two more holes in my exhaust system to put in the A/F and EGT sensors? I am assuming I should put this after the header and before the cat, right?

[cali yaris]

You actually have a 0-5v A/F sensor in your header, just to be clear.

Yes, you will need another bung for the other sensors you add in that path. I don't think EGT is a critical one, but that's just my opinion.

If you're adding a bung for an A/F sensor, it should be as soon after the existing one as possible.

[LtNoogie]

You actually have a 0-5v A/F sensor in your header, just to be clear.

That's what I thought but I figured that the signal only went to the ECU. Can I splice into that set of wires to feed the A/F also?

[largeorangefont]

That's what I thought but I figured that the signal only went to the ECU. Can I splice into that set of wires to feed the A/F also?

No, the stock sensor is a narrowband sensor. The wideband will come with the wideband 02 sensor you need to use.

[battleversiontc]

isnt there two sensors the first one closet to the header was a wideband and the second one after the cat a narrowband

[cali yaris]

no. the first one is an A/F, the second (between the cats) an O2.

the wideband will come with the wideband 02 sensor you need to use.

:thumbsup:

[battleversiontc]

You actually have a 0-5v A/F sensor in your header, just to be clear.

Yes, you will need another bung for the other sensors you add in that path. I don't think EGT is a critical one, but that's just my opinion.

If you're adding a bung for an A/F sensor, it should be as soon after the existing one as possible.

but as 0-5v sensor is a wideband and 0-1v is a narrowband

there's narrow band and wide band o2 sensors, they are both a/f sensors

narrow band, like nearly all cars have are normally referred as just "o2's"
and they either read rich or lean, hence the term narrow band

a wide band o2 sensor is comonnly called a "wideband" or "air/fuel sensor" it reads more in depth and allows for more precise tuning of the air fuel ratio.

[battleversiontc]

http://www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm
http://www.aa1car.com/library/wraf.htm

[LtNoogie]

Can I get a single combo Boost/Vacuum gauge or does it have to be boost only?

Does this mean that the intake manifold pressure will show max vacuum at idle and then swing to low vacuum at WOT (S/C not engaged) to boosted psi if the S/C is spinning?

It's been a while since I thought about how an engine functions.

[eTiMaGo]

Can I get a single combo Boost/Vacuum gauge or does it have to be boost only?

Does this mean that the intake manifold pressure will show max vacuum at idle and then swing to low vacuum at WOT (S/C not engaged) to boosted psi if the S/C is spinning?

It's been a while since I thought about how an engine functions.

I've seen those around, sounds like a good combo!

[cali yaris]

battleversion -- great links!

Just because it's 0-5v does not mean it's a wideband sensor like the kind that come with gauges. The Yaris sensor is a proprietary, unusual hybrid design. To demonstrate this, you cannot replace it with a 0-5v wideband A/F sensor and have it work. (see bold print below)

The rear sensor is an "normal" O2 sensor.


A WRAF sensor is essentially a smarter oxygen sensor with some additional internal circuitry that allows it to precisely determine the exact air/fuel ratio of the engine. Like an ordinary oxygen sensor, it reacts to changing oxygen levels in the exhaust. But unlike an ordinary oxygen sensor, the output signal from a WRAF sensor does not change abruptly when the air/fuel mixture goes rich or lean.

[largeorangefont]

battleversion -- great links!

Just because it's 0-5v does not mean it's a wideband sensor like the kind that come with gauges. The Yaris sensor is a proprietary, unusual hybrid design. To demonstrate this, you cannot replace it with a 0-5v wideband A/F sensor and have it work. (see bold print below)

The rear sensor is an "normal" O2 sensor.


That is describing a wideband sensor.

[365Motorwerks]

Can I get a single combo Boost/Vacuum gauge or does it have to be boost only?

Does this mean that the intake manifold pressure will show max vacuum at idle and then swing to low vacuum at WOT (S/C not engaged) to boosted psi if the S/C is spinning?

It's been a while since I thought about how an engine functions.

That's the kind I run, heck I even use the vacuum function the more vacuum you see the better your mileage!

This is the same one but I swapped the face and ring to black..
http://www.365motorwerks.com/ProductImages/aem/aem_boost_display.jpg

[cali yaris]

That is describing a wideband sensor.

right... and then there was the rest of my post (which you quoted). Try plugging in a nice Bosch universal wideband sensor in that first bung and running it to your ECU.


I'm simply saying it's not the same.

[largeorangefont]

right... and then there was the rest of my post (which you quoted). Try plugging in a nice Bosch universal wideband sensor in that first bung and running it to your ECU.


I'm simply saying it's not the same.

I didn't say is was a Bosch wideband sensor. There are no "universal" wideband sensors. Then ones you are thinking of that are most commonly used are actually VW parts.

Hondas used NTK wideband sensors, and then whatever the Yaris has in it. Coud be NTK or Denso.

[thebarber]

boost, a/f, egt

[battleversiontc]

why everbody gets the added hole for the wideband is so it plugs into the gauge and uses it as a seperate monitoring system while the factory ecu reads off the factory installed unit to apply fuel/air more properly and by the way bosch makes a wideband sensor for a replacement for the yaris

[battleversiontc]

right... and then there was the rest of my post (which you quoted). Try plugging in a nice Bosch universal wideband sensor in that first bung and running it to your ECU.


I'm simply saying it's not the same.

i have tried this with my plx device and it works great i havent gotten any cels yet

[at3GG]

beginner question.....besides "boost" lol what does a boost guage pull its reading from? Some line i would assume but which?

[whooppee777]

it reads the pressure levels from a vacuum line off of the intake manifold.

[at3GG]

is that line there stock or added when a boost guage is added?

[LtNoogie]

I'll let you know in a week or so. I just purchased an Autometer vacuum/boost gauge from Garm. I have to see what parts came with the Blitz kit to connect to the new intake manifold. Right now, the hole is pugged with an Allen screw.

[LtNoogie]

Ok, it's taken over four months since I asked the original question. Here's a video of my vacuum/boost gauge and wideband a/f gauge. Sorry for the shaky picture but my camera mount shakes and I had to zoom to get the gauges to fill the screen. The oil pressure gauge has not been connected to the sender unit yet.

I'll be cross-posting the same video in another thread so you don't want to watch it twice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05RZSyraA5Y

[largeorangefont]

That thing is lean under boost. You need a tune.

[LtNoogie]

The provided Blitz fuel controller is a black box and not adjustable. Would my only options be larger injectors? Wouldn't that make me run too rich under NA operation?

[PETERPOOP]

I thought you were going to get TC injectors?

[largeorangefont]

The provided Blitz fuel controller is a black box and not adjustable. Would my only options be larger injectors? Wouldn't that make me run too rich under NA operation?

No, don't do that. Getting bigger injectors will probably just make the car slower. See my response in your lean condition thread.

My theory is that the black box retards the timing making the OVERALL tune safe. You would need to datalog to see for sure, or monitor EGT.

If you are going to spend money, spend it on some way to tune the car. I think you could easily pick up 15-20 HP from more agressive timing, and richer AFR under boost.

Again, you don't need bigger injectors.

[largeorangefont]

Word on the street, and what really works are usually 2 different things.

If he can find a piggyback, I will tune it for him.

[LtNoogie]

If you are going to spend money, spend it on some way to tune the car. I think you could easily pick up 15-20 HP from more agressive timing, and richer AFR under boost.


Hmmm, 15-20 more HP. What would I do with that?:evil:

[largeorangefont]

Hmmm, 15-20 more HP. What would I do with that?:evil:

Win.

[LtNoogie]

We need to stop meeting in two threads like this.:smile:

[largeorangefont]

agreed. I'm done here.