First thoughts: Carbotech XP8 pads and slotted rotors

[jkuchta]

Hello everyone,

I’m not sure if this should be under wheels and tires or performance or what, but here goes:

Last week I had the opportunity to upgrade the brakes and rotors on my 07' liftback. I had looked into bigger front rotors, though larger wheels were out of the question. Instead, I decided to install uprated slotted rotors and Carbotech pads from Cali Yaris.
I (like a dumbass) forgot to take any pics, but the install was pretty straightforward for both the front discs and pads, as well as the rear drum shoes. One of the front rotors was stuck, though with a pair of M8 bolts screwed through the threaded holes in the rotor, the problem was easily overcome, and a thin layer of anti-seize should prevent another stuck rotor. The rear shoes were a problem for me, if only because it was the first drum brake work I'd ever done. The left side took like 45 min., while the right side took about 10 (after I had figured out some of the tricks to removing and reinstalling the top spring).
Bleeding the entire brake system took all of about 15 min. (thanks again Garm:smile:), and the extra insurance provided by Ate Super Blue DOT4 race fluid is a nice addition to a basically new brake setup for this little car.

Now for my impressions on the new brakes:

Without really working the brakes over really hard yet, I'd say these things are amazing. Initial bite is phenomenal, and modulation is better that OEM by a great deal. With the OEM pads and rotors, once you reach a certain point in terms of braking force, there is nothing more you can get in terms of braking ability. It's like the OEM system is always on the verge of brake fade. With the Carbotech XP8 pads, braking force in relation to pedal force is linear all the way to lockup. My wife's yaris HB is still stock, and I've actually found myself braking a little too late due to the fact that I'm now used to the superior performance of the XP8 pads. As a note, I had the XP8 pads installed for a week on the OEM rotors before I was able to swap in the slotted rotors, and the braking performance was about 8-9 tenths as good with the OEM rotors.
Now to the downsides of the Carbotech pads (there are no downsides to the rotors):

As Carbotech warns, these pads to produce a fair amount of dust. It's pretty easy to wash off (a day driving in the rain took most of it off for me), though it is quite a bit more dust than OEM. Also, with the OEM rotors, there is a fair amount of noise. With the new slotted rotors the noise has dropped quite a bit, but I'll keep everyone posted.

In summary, instead of buying a big brake kit, I think the pads and new rotors are a better buy, and offer a huge improvement in braking capacity. I'll be running at Cal. Speedway in a couple of weeks, and I'll report back on how these pads behave under really serious braking.

Thanks again to Cali Yaris for making these products available to the yaris community, as well as giving me a flat piece of concrete on which to do the brake work:smile:.

[LtNoogie]

That's too bad you did not do a 70mph to zero baseline test before and after.

Ok, I've been reading Car and Driver too much.

I am really interested in hearing how they peform at the Speedway. Are you doing the Autocross or the Roval?

[jkuchta]

Roval.....and while 70-0 would have been some nice hard data, the increase in braking performance is so great that real testing would just be the cherry on top.

[cali yaris]

Thanks for a great review.

For those interested, we also carry the AX6 (the next pad down from the XP8, designed for autocross and "spirited street driving"), and also the 1521 upgraded street pad.

[at3GG]

**NOOB QUESTION ALERT** brake shoes the same as brake pads? Also, i know the rear brakes are drums, do they also have rotors? if so, are they the same size as the front? As in the set that you have cali? What are some other good brake manufacturers? My pads are getting squeaky and it annoying lol

[mikenacarato]

no, brake shoes go with drum brakes, brake pads go with disc brakes. there is no rotor with a drum assembly.

[at3GG]

ohhhhhh ok gotcha. So would it be unwise to upgrade the front rotors while keeping stock rear drums? Would that cause uneven wear? I know theres more strain on the front anyways but still i think i read that somewhere. oh yeah also...whats the difference between slotted....and drilled and slotted? there listed at the same price so i was wondering. The slots are for cooling right? Do you have pads for the front too cali? one more dumb question. Seeing as its almost $1000 to convert the rears to disc, is there an option of upgrading the drums or no?

[largeorangefont]

The reason the new pads made noise and you felt a slight difference in feel is because you had OEM pad material embedded in the OEM rotors. A bed in process with the stock seasoned rotors and XP8 pads would get you the same feel as the new slotted rotors do now. Actually bed in is usually faster with seasoned rotors vs. new ones.

Slotted rotors Vs. OEM offer no performance gain. You don't need to get new rotors if you don't want or cant afford to.

These pads won't really improve your 70-0 stops. They will improve feel and consistency over repeaded 70-0 stops.

If you want to decrease your stopping distance, get better tires.

Great writeup! I'm glad we have more agressive pad options available. If you fashion up some brake cooling ducts you can probably stay with these pads as you get faster and get stickier tires.

[at3GG]

so unless I need to replace the rotors anyway theres no point really in getting slotted rotors? Just better pads I guess. You know of any good performance front pads? I'll probably go with the shoes microimage has because i trust garm, but i didnt see pads there

[mikenacarato]

well the brakes will never wear evenly. you could go through 2 sets of front pads before needing rear shoes. this is my opinion on the rotors but drilled and slotted i have had warp and crack on me and they are really designed for looks imo, the slotted will work awesome though for street and track use. although with the slotted it will eat your pads a little quicker. garm has pads too i believe.

[largeorangefont]

so unless I need to replace the rotors anyway theres no point really in getting slotted rotors? Just better pads I guess. You know of any good performance front pads? I'll probably go with the shoes microimage has because i trust garm, but i didnt see pads there

If you want to spend money, spend it on SS brake lines. You don't need new rotors. Just get upgraded pads for the front, and upgraded shoes for the rear.

A fluid flush, better pads/shoes and SS brake lines are all the brake upgrades 99.9% of us will ever need.

[mikenacarato]

+1 on the stainless lines...very worthwile.

[at3GG]

gotcha thanks. Any thoughts on a good fluid? I've heard of stop tech quite a bit. They offer 3 fluids. One is specifically for cars with ABS. One is a racing fluid. you know by chance how much our system holds?

[cali yaris]

You know of any good performance front pads?

That's what this thread is about!

[at3GG]

haha you clown I know. Microimage doesnt list pads seperately, unless I'm completely blind. If i dont want to buy the rotors too, can i get just the pads from you? Thaats what i wanted to know. I worded it poorly.

[CASTREX]

gotcha thanks. Any thoughts on a good fluid? I've heard of stop tech quite a bit. They offer 3 fluids. One is specifically for cars with ABS. One is a racing fluid. you know by chance how much our system holds?

MOTUL RBF600

That's what I rock!

[largeorangefont]

gotcha thanks. Any thoughts on a good fluid? I've heard of stop tech quite a bit. They offer 3 fluids. One is specifically for cars with ABS. One is a racing fluid. you know by chance how much our system holds?

You don't need anything too fancy for street and light track use. Brake fluid can get expensive. Something for under $20 a quart will be more than good enough. I've used Castrol LMA with good sucess.

It is more important that you change it frequently, rather than buy the most expensive fluid. As you use better and better pads and tires, you will want to use better fluid.

[at3GG]

their racing stuff was like $13 something a quart. How much would i need for a full flush?

[largeorangefont]

their racing stuff was like $13 something a quart. How much would i need for a full flush?

A quart is fine for a full flush.

[at3GG]

ohhh ok thanks

will it really help that much?

[largeorangefont]

ohhh ok thanks

will it really help that much?

Yes. Brake fluid attracts moisture and the fluid gets dirty. This takes away pedal feel and consistency over time.

[CASTREX]

ohhh ok thanks

will it really help that much?

You need to understand what is the function of "racing" brake liquid.

Racing brake liquid has a higher boiling resistance. In other words a higher boiling point.

When the brake fluid gets to hot, you will feel that your brakes are fading. If it get to the point were it boils you can press the brakes all the way down and nothing will happen!

A racing fluid will retard that effect.

But same as racing brake pads. It won't make you stop faster!

[at3GG]

haha i wasnt saying i necessarily wanted the racing flui, i was just saying what they had. But if all I need is one quart, the difference betwen the racing and normal stuff is like ..4 buck or soemthing. Might as well get the top notch. How often is a good interval to change it anyway?

[cali yaris]

oops, sorry. I'll be darned, they aren't on there. CarboTech pads will be posted tonight!

But there is also vendor thread you can check right now :thumbsup:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10029

[at3GG]

haha gotcha cali! i didnt think they were on there lol The prices on the thread..those for a set of pads AND shoes or just pads?

[CASTREX]

haha i wasnt saying i necessarily wanted the racing flui, i was just saying what they had. But if all I need is one quart, the difference betwen the racing and normal stuff is like ..4 buck or soemthing. Might as well get the top notch. How often is a good interval to change it anyway?

I change it once a year.

But is really humid down here... plus I drive my car quite hard... :redface:

Don't know what's the recommended interval under normal a driving situation.

[at3GG]

ok good to know thanks a lot castrex!

[tk-421]

Nice writeup! I can't wait to get my updated front pads/rear shoes installed.
Judging from what I've read on this thread, it looks like I should go for some SS brake lines and upgrade the brake fluid if I want the full effect.

Does anyone know which SS lines fit the USDM Yaris on the front/rear?

[Malaya1221]

C-One SS Brake Lines (http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/catalog-detail.php?ID=5216)
&
StopTech SS Brake Lines (http://www.stoptech.com/products/stainless_steal_lines.shtml)

i've seen stoptech on ebay!

[tk-421]

C-One SS Brake Lines (http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/catalog-detail.php?ID=5216)
&
StopTech SS Brake Lines (http://www.stoptech.com/products/stainless_steal_lines.shtml)

i've seen stoptech on ebay!
Thanks for the links. I've heard that JDM SS brake lines don't fit the USDM Yaris for some reason, however. Plus, what is up with the price?!

As for the StopTech ones, they don't list the Yaris on their site. Are you sure those lines will work on our cars?

[jdmekcivic]

Thanks for the links. I've heard that JDM SS brake lines don't fit the USDM Yaris for some reason, however. Plus, what is up with the price?!

As for the StopTech ones, they don't list the Yaris on their site. Are you sure those lines will work on our cars?

I have Goodridge front and rear lines and they fit fine. No issues at all.

I am also running the Carbotech XP8 pads and shoes. They are great! I have had them on for the last 5 months or so and so far no fade at all. I haven't been to the track to test them to their limits but from what they said I should be very happy with the result.

Thanks Jkuchta for the review!

[Malaya1221]

:biggrin: c-one price is ridiculous!

here are stoptech and goodridge for the yaris!

Brake Lines (http://www.google.com/products?q=yaris+stainless+brake+line&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=com.google:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title)

[jkuchta]

Update:

These pads rocked pretty hard at both the Autoclub Roval and the Streets of Willow. I experianced NO brake fade, and pedel feel was quite nice. Modulation was a snap, with really nice bite both cold and hot, though hot bite was phenominal!


One word of caution, though:

With the stock suspension and 500 treadwear tires (Yokohama Avid V4s), and running the XP8 compound up front and the 917 shoes in back, brake bias shifted to the rear to such an extent that moderate to hard braking while going anywhere but straight on the track resulted in a really light rear end (nearly got in trouble once going into the fast esses after the back straight at the Streets (clockwise). While the slight oversteer was very controllable, I still took notice (i.e. pucker factor). I have a feeling that a lot of this can be attributed to the overheated tires and pretty crazy forward weight transfer due to the soft OEM suspension. I'll soon be on coilovers and appropriate tires, so that should bring the braking behavior back more in line. Note though that trail-braking is still quite possible with the current setup, and I found it quite possible to "turn" the rear in very controlably in tighter turns (at the Streets). I'd caution against any trail-braking "exploring" on on/off ramps!

Thanks to all for the positive comments, and I'll keep everyone posted as to improvements and/or changes over the life of these pads.

[justjesus]

C-One SS Brake Lines (http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/catalog-detail.php?ID=5216)
&
StopTech SS Brake Lines (http://www.stoptech.com/products/stainless_steal_lines.shtml)

i've seen stoptech on ebay!

Holy smokes those C-Ones are expensive! 400+ ?!?!? What did I have for lunch? I'm feeling faint.:frown:

[auxmike]

no, brake shoes go with drum brakes, brake pads go with disc brakes. there is no rotor with a drum assembly.

Not true.
Volvo's 240 series used the inside of the rear rotor as a emergency brake drum. There were "mini" brake shoes within.
I know because I had to replace the mini brake shoes when one lost the braking media off the steel shoe. It was a really weird setup, I'll say! :iono:

[ddongbap]

Remember, your brakes will only be as good as your tires. As far as single runs. If you're already locking tires, or hitting ABS, then you need better tires.

But yes, the only real benefit beyond tires, is heat function.

[mikenacarato]

Not true.
Volvo's 240 series used the inside of the rear rotor as a emergency brake drum. There were "mini" brake shoes within.
I know because I had to replace the mini brake shoes when one lost the braking media off the steel shoe. It was a really weird setup, I'll say! :iono:

its a normal setup on pickups and such too, but im pretty sure he didnt ask about the ebrake, just the main driving brake... so when it all comes down to it...brake pads to rotors as brake shoes is to drums.

[auxmike]

Yes, you are correct then.
I know some here can get super technical to the point where you can't figure out what they are talking about.:confused:
I wanted to be one of those people for a minute......:biggrin:
Anyways, nothing but :respekt: my friend!