Prius Pistons

[sdyaris]

I was just reading that the compression ratio for the Prius is 13:1. Would the higher compression pistons work in the Yaris (10.5:1)?

[Nexus1155]

HAH! im glad someone brought this up again, I've read places that the compression is due to the fact of the pistons themselves and will fit since the blocks are of the same cast.

The main difference is that the prius pistons are domed? or of a different design. I have heard that they give off the bat a 13-15hp gain. They would be great for N/A with some tuning, but not for FI

If you have time to swap them on the weekend, go for it. They are cheap and all you would need are new head studs as these ones on this block stretch i think and cannot be reused... also cheap to do.. I doubt you would need an engine lift if you and buddy was over(I lifted an H22, back breaking but i could move it...)

If you have any questions i'll try to answer them to the best of my ability...

[mikenacarato]

on the yaris will it do much for compression to run a thinner head gasket? im not sure how much material is there to work with though.
but on the other hand this piston idea seems pretty awesome.

[cali yaris]

What is the displacement of the Pruis motor? I have one, and it looks nothing like our 1.5L

[RagnaCaT]

Sounds like a go but engine Temp could become an issue? Maybe an Oil cooler could be used? I like N/A performance!

[mikenacarato]

i think 1496 is the prius displacement

[cali yaris]

yeah an N/A project would be really fun. 13:1 pistons with ITBs FTW!

[RagnaCaT]

What is the displacement of the Pruis motor? I have one, and it looks nothing like our 1.5L

Yes Garm 1.5 and stay away from this you are going to blow something up!

[mikenacarato]

i would love itbs more than anything. i have a spare set of itbs off of my yzf600 i should start making my own project! haha

[Nexus1155]

lol good luck with the drive by wire system and all with the itb's, its a pain in the ass, you would not see gains in compression with a thinner headgasket, but if you machined either the block or the head, 10thousandths of an inch you would raise it about .5 points.... I do not know if there is room to do this to begin with so...

and about heat being an issue, it can only be told by the person who does it and monitors the heat... the prius doesn't overheat? But i don't know how the atkinson system kicks in and at what variables

[mikenacarato]

i guess to run the itb you would have to run an engine management system and physically weld in all of your brackets and cables for the throttle cable.

can you get a tune that will let you disable or bypass the drive by wire?

[Nexus1155]

ehhhhhhh, doesn't work that way lol.... Unless you get either an XB or an Echo ecu and wire it up somehow along with the throttle cable and pedal... BUT they do have drive by wire ITB's out there now.. so. yeah...

Or you could hookup a cable to the current pedal and use both, and have a new throttle body on there while the stock one is in a different locations receiving electronic signals to relay to the ecu...

[mikenacarato]

hmm, so there not a single place that can reflash or piggyback to the yaris ecu and allow you to remove drive by wire?

[Nexus1155]

i was working on a reflash, but i have other priorities. Well i mean, you could try and toss on an echo throttle body with pedal and cable and see if it will work, some things are whacky like that but you'll probably get a CEL...

[RagnaCaT]

and about heat being an issue, it can only be told by the person who does it and monitors the heat... the prius doesn't overheat? But i don't know how the atkinson system kicks in and at what variables

True but the engine is not constantly on cuase it's a hybrid also the atkinson cycle is very different with TDC against our design but don't know but still sounds fun! I guess!:smile:

[sdyaris]

Heh, i wouldn't have the nerve to try it until the car is paid off. :laugh:

[at3GG]

itbs=?? indidual throttle bodies? :iono:

[toyochris]

yes itb are individual throtle bodies.

[Nexus1155]

yeah individual throttle bodies...

Meh, the engine these cars have in them are cheap enough to buy a spare and do it, which just gave me a good idea... hmmm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/toyota-yaris-engine-and-transmisson_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q 7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZ p3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem250319667617QQitemZ2503 19667617QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccess ories

[at3GG]

thanks guys

[RagnaCaT]

yes itb are individual throtle bodies.

Hey ToyoChris bet you are already looking in to this right? I Know we are like that. He he he

[rob323]

I have some pdf's on the 1NZ-FXE (Prius motor) and the specs are ever so slightly different for the Prius piston diameter but everything seems to be the same.
Not sure on what sort of timing advance the Prius runs compared to a 1NZz-FE though.

[Tamago]

didn't read the whole thread but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle


the 1nzfxe in the prius is not a normal 4stroke engine.. but hey, as long as the valves clear the pistons and the connecting rods are of the same length, you should be OK

[cali yaris]

this Prius piston discussion is just to save money, right? Because you could order pistons from CP with any specs you want, including high compression for the 1NZ-FE

[06silveryaris]

as far as the prius pistons what concerns me but just very little would be the fact of pinning. Can the factory ECU make the fuel adjustment or would just running higher octane cure it if it happened? As far as ITB's go with the yaris engine being smaller you can probably use GSX-R itb's and make a manifold once the drive by wire issue is solved. I have a very close friend that had been making manifolds for ITB's for Hondas for quite some time and they work out nicely. I can post some pics of he last one he made for a integra once I figuere out how to make the pics smaller or I can email if you PM me.

[06silveryaris]

here are some pics. Hope you guys like:smile:

[06silveryaris]

by the way I know there is a ITB thread I do not mean hijack this thread:smile:

[cali yaris]

um, then post in it, LOL

[mikenacarato]

haha, nice setup though. i got a set of itbs in my garage from my bike i want to do that with.

[toyochris]

Hey ToyoChris bet you are already looking in to this right? I Know we are like that. He he he

you know it but no money cuase my newest mod is that i am a DAD!!!

[YarisPR]

RanaCat, 06SilverYaris, ToyoChris

We have to make a meeting

Hay que ruinirnos pq hay muchas ideas y ustedes saben muchas de esto que yo. Q tal?

[RagnaCaT]

you know it but no money cuase my newest mod is that i am a DAD!!!

HEY! That was my MOD! Very soon DECEMBER, I'm modding the stroller with a set of 7" inch rims and Toyota Badge! LOL!

[RagnaCaT]

RanaCat, 06SilverYaris, ToyoChris

We have to make a meeting

Hay que ruinirnos pq hay muchas ideas y ustedes saben muchas de esto que yo. Q tal?

Sounds good! Hace tiempo que quiero janguiar con pal de yaris y esto de los pistones de Prius puede Bregar. Yo tenia un 4A-FE con pistones 7A y UFF!

[kargoboy]

CP should be releasing Pistons for the 1NZ-FE shortly. At least, that's what my supplier is
telling me.

[Flipper_1938]

Did anybody ever lay there hands on a set of prius pistons to see what the difference was between those and the Yaris pistons?

[cali yaris]

I think it was determined that they are not compatible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle

[IVAN_TRD]

in puerto rico, we use prius pistons

[Flipper_1938]

in puerto rico, we use prius pistons

To build high performance Yaris motors?

[IVAN_TRD]

yaris and echo

[cali yaris]

^ I keep seeing posts like this, and never a picture or a dyno. I believe you -- but it would be real nice to see how it's done and what the result is.

[Maitre_Te_Te]

^ I keep seeing posts like this, and never a picture or a dyno. I believe you -- but it would be real nice to see how it's done and what the result is.

X2... I want to see this on video and dyno run! Do you have this?

If I find a cheaper engine, I will try this mod.

[Maitre_Te_Te]

I can have an engine for 150$. If I put prius piston, I think that I need a tuning. FIC or camcon ?

http://shop.microimageonline.com/AEM-F-IC-fuel-and-timing-controller-30-1910.htm

http://shop.microimageonline.com/CamCon-tuning-module-with-vvt-i-CC-111.htm

[Betrivent]

j'imagine.. lol (Sorry, nonconstructive post but this was funny)

[Maitre_Te_Te]

j'imagine.. lol (Sorry, nonconstructive post but this was funny)

loll.. I have correct it :P

[10 Francis]

Personally, I would be more interested in the Prius intake cam than Prius pistons. The effective compression ratio on the Prius changes due to VVT-i, but I've been told by experienced techs that it's around 6.5-7.5:1, depending on valve timing. The interesting thing to me would be a Prius intake cam and a supercharger- turn the Yaris engine into a Miller-cycle engine.

[2greek4u]

^ I keep seeing posts like this, and never a picture or a dyno. I believe you -- but it would be real nice to see how it's done and what the result is.

On every Forum too... but they never show anything it's like a secret voodoo cult!

[spin_king]

i wanted to raise my compression but couldnt find any for my vitz rs. i would like to know how if anyone has tried the 13:1 compression. what year prius pistons were used & if any addition fabrication work had to be done.

[Golddeenoh]

On every Forum too... but they never show anything it's like a secret voodoo cult!

oh yes I like the voodoo as long as i can see it doo its voo. until then it is like the sneaking myth of the 1k hp streetable hatch back that hunt down and devours v-8s.

and the getting another engine and building a n/a to do autocross would be a sweet project, i'm trying to get my pops in on a project with me but he is hesitant to do anything.

[cali yaris]

We can get new higher comp pistons, just sold some to a customer doing an NA build.

Sourcing Prius pistons are cheaper obviously IF they work.

[mr_miles]

Wish i had a spare engine...I'd tear it down and find out.

[Nanoss22]

Guys here in puerto rico i have seen 2 hb with the prius piston mood and it work they fit perfectly no mood needed just replace the stock ones with the prius piston and the roods are the same original that came with the engine 1nzfe .....only the pistons.. Prius 2004 2006... I have allready the piston all assembled waiting for the mechanic...

[Nanoss22]

I need a repair manual for the 1nz fe engine so i can get all the timing all the screw torque if u know i will apreciated

[why?]

in the diy section:2007 Repair Manual. (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1768)

And we'd love to see some build pics and a dyno run if you do it after too.
Thank you!

Would be so cool if it worked.

[1.5]

finally someone with proof of actually doing this.

[Nanoss22]

Yeah I will keep uploading photos when I finish the project and dynocharts afterwards....

[Flipper_1938]

I would like to see pics of the yaris and prius pistons side by side.

[cali yaris]

I'd like to see ANY pics of Prius pistons.

[Golddeenoh]

^ isn't that what he showed the page before?
or do you just want the piston by its self?

[cali yaris]

^ Neither. I want to see these put into a car -- which it looks like he's going to do so we can all finally see it for real, and get to see some results, whatever they are.

Props to Nanoss22.

[Golddeenoh]

oh I see, yes i look forward to seeing the out come, maybe even a base line dyno and and after piston dyno as well, then we could get an estimate of how much gain the pistons do.

[Viperoni]

Mad props to Nanoss for making it happen!

Could be a fairly cheap way to gain 10-20hp.

[Nanoss22]

Today i got all the torque needed to mount the piston it may take 1 to 2 weeks to make this project because the mechanic disponibility i am excited to get it done...

[Nanoss22]

Here the proof prius pistons on toyota echo 1nz fe roods this ones are used just ran 1 900miles on a yaris hb a friend of mine sold it to me i only buy new the piston rings and the roods bearing

[Golddeenoh]

MONKEYS!!!!!!!!!


:D

[Viperoni]

Nanoss22, Was 91 octane gas ok, or did you have to run higher?

[1.5]

Sweeeeeeeettttt

[Flipper_1938]

Here the proof prius pistons on toyota echo 1nz fe roods this ones are used just ran 1 900miles on a yaris hb a friend of mine sold it to me i only buy new the piston rings and the roods bearing

Any progress to report?

[jouna]

i am planing to do this i am from puerto rico and i am studying to be a licensed mecanic so ill be doing it myself in the workshop i just need to find the pistons and the piston rings ive checked ao many times the fitment it aint even funny its a bolt on tune

[yaris 2sz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle

[1.5]

UPdates!!!

BTW Nanoss2, your sedan looks clean lets see more pics.

[Nanoss22]

Sorry people for not updating i have posponed the mods to summer... i am waiting for my baby boy to born on this late May... I am in debt with u guys sorry for keep u waiting...

[JustDidIt]

Sorry people for not updating i have posponed the mods to summer... i am waiting for my baby boy to born on this late May... I am in debt with u guys sorry for keep u waiting...

Any chance of this project picking up here in 2013?

I'm tempted to try this on my 1NZ-FXE - that is swap the cams and cam gear from the 1NZ-FE keeping my stock Prius pistons and running some sort of EM.

[4/20 NEVER FORGET]

Seriously. I was just thinking about this thread. Babies ruin everything!

[JustDidIt]

2004 Toyota Echo with the 1.5L 1NZ-FE and have just under 90,000 miles on them for $87 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-01-02-03-04-05-Toyota-Echo-OEM-Exhaust-Intake-Camshafts-Scion-XA-XB-Yaris-/300840408848?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item460b7c5710&vxp=mtr) - is the mileage too high or should that matter for my CAM swap?

[Jason@SportsCar]

2004 Toyota Echo with the 1.5L 1NZ-FE and have just under 90,000 miles on them for $87 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-01-02-03-04-05-Toyota-Echo-OEM-Exhaust-Intake-Camshafts-Scion-XA-XB-Yaris-/300840408848?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item460b7c5710&vxp=mtr) - is the mileage too high or should that matter for my CAM swap?

I have a brand new set in the box, as well as a used set. Also have a couple of spare heads. PM me if you are interested.

[JustDidIt]

I have a brand new set in the box, as well as a used set. Also have a couple of spare heads. PM me if you are interested.

PM'd

[Autocross72]

I have hard of people doing the Prius piston swap before, but they always seem to disappear. I think the reason is that they are cast pistons with too much compression. At 13:1 compression, you would have to run full race gas, which at $9.00 a gallon would be extremely expensive. Also, cast pistons can't withstand that kind of compression for very long. You would need to go with forged pistons. You should also swap out the crapy stock Yaris rods while you are at it. They are known to be weak and the turbo guys have shown over and over again that they can't with stand much of a power increase.

[cali yaris]

Also, cast pistons can't withstand that kind of compression for very long. You would need to go with forged pistons.

That doesn't make sense if the Prius runs them as stock pistons? :iono:

[etherdude]

That doesn't make sense if the Prius runs them as stock pistons? :iono:

The Prius Atkinson Cycle cams have the effect of lowering cylinder pressure due to holding the intake open longer and blowing intake charge back into the intake manifold. Thus the higher compression 13:1 pistons do not result in necessarily higher cylinder pressures that the lower compression ration Yaris pistons.

[Viperoni]

The Prius Atkinson Cycle cams have the effect of lowering cylinder pressure due to holding the intake open longer and blowing intake charge back into the intake manifold. Thus the higher compression 13:1 pistons do not result in necessarily higher cylinder pressures that the lower compression ration Yaris pistons.

QFT

Basically the dynamic CR of the 1nz-fxe probably isn't that much different than the DCR of the 1nz-fe... 13:1 is a very high static CR to start off on a regular fuel injected motor, ESPECIALLY with the stock cams.


It's just too bad nobody's come back and said what's happened.

[why?]

I remember reading the highest the Prius ratio ever gets is 11.1. The atkinson cycle keeps both the intake and exhaust valves open for long periods of time.

[JustDidIt]

I remember reading the highest the Prius ratio ever gets is 11.1. The atkinson cycle keeps both the intake and exhaust valves open for long periods of time.

Wonder what kind of performance increase could be expected as going from the 10.5:1 to the 11:1 or whatever the CR would be..

When I do the Cam and Cam gear swap I would basically have the 1NZ-FE head but still the Prius bottom end. Where someone else with the 1NZ-FE would have to tear into the block and switch the pistons but hopefully leaving the stock 1NZ-FE crank. The 1NZ-FXE Does have different pistons and crankshaft but same rods. Would be really interesting to see if there would be a difference it would make between the 1NZ-FXE and 1NZ-FE crank obviously other than part #s being different..

[JustDidIt]

I'm still on the hunt for a set of 1NZ-FE cams and cam gear. I'd rather not go and pick up a full long block for $400-$600 - but i may have to. I'd rather just snatch a full 1NZ-FE head or even just the cams and gear.

I really want to try this out.

[Viperoni]

Wonder what kind of performance increase could be expected as going from the 10.5:1 to the 11:1 or whatever the CR would be..

When I do the Cam and Cam gear swap I would basically have the 1NZ-FE head but still the Prius bottom end. Where someone else with the 1NZ-FE would have to tear into the block and switch the pistons but hopefully leaving the stock 1NZ-FE crank. The 1NZ-FXE Does have different pistons and crankshaft but same rods. Would be really interesting to see if there would be a difference it would make between the 1NZ-FXE and 1NZ-FE crank obviously other than part #s being different..

The (static) CR would be 13:1 if you use Prius (FXE) pistons.
The dynamic CR is apparently 11:1 if you use FXE pistons.
I was under the impression that the FE & FXE cranks were the same... or at least the stroke is. Maybe the FXE crank is stronger somehow?


To answer your question, it depends. A quick googling seems to say that there's diminishing returns, especially since you're not improving the breathing of the motor and filling the combustion chamber with more air/fuel.
One calculator said 6.5% and that's more or less what I read on another site as well... which I think is a bit low, but could be bang on. In any case, a 6.5% increase is 7hp.


If possible, I'd go with an overbore Prius piston to help increase displacement at the same time as increasing the CR... that'll help engine breathing, and it'll increase the quench area inside the combustion chamber which should help stop some detonation too.

[JustDidIt]

The (static) CR would be 13:1 if you use Prius (FXE) pistons.
The dynamic CR is apparently 11:1 if you use FXE pistons.
I was under the impression that the FE & FXE cranks were the same... or at least the stroke is. Maybe the FXE crank is stronger somehow?

Crankshaft:
1NZ-FE: 13401-21020
1NZ-FXE: 13401-21040

Difference :confused: No idea...

To answer your question, it depends. A quick googling seems to say that there's diminishing returns, especially since you're not improving the breathing of the motor and filling the combustion chamber with more air/fuel.
One calculator said 6.5% and that's more or less what I read on another site as well... which I think is a bit low, but could be bang on. In any case, a 6.5% increase is 7hp.

If possible, I'd go with an overbore Prius piston to help increase displacement at the same time as increasing the CR... that'll help engine breathing, and it'll increase the quench area inside the combustion chamber which should help stop some detonation too.

So what if I was to modify the induction system..different routed intake and intake manifold (been looking over making my own intake manifold after watching 'tooters' adventures...and exhaust manifold and exhaust system? I would think this would help some...right?

[why?]

crank is the same. They'd use a different part number if it was different. It is really all about pistons and the timing. the atkinson cycle doesn't give a damn about low end tourque, unlike the normal otto cycle.

[JustDidIt]

Crankshaft:
1NZ-FE: 13401-21020
1NZ-FXE: 13401-21040

crank is the same. They'd use a different part number if it was different. It is really all about pistons and the timing. the atkinson cycle doesn't give a damn about low end tourque, unlike the normal otto cycle.

Read much of the other posts??

[Golddeenoh]

^ burn

[Yoda]

^LMAO

[tooter]

QFT

It's just too bad nobody's come back and said what's happened.

That would seem to indicate that trying to run Atkinson pistons in an Otto engine did not go well.

Here's a fascinating animation of how Atkinson cycle engines work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEfOxKmCstg

Skip to 2:20 second mark to get past the bullshit.

[JustDidIt]

That would seem to indicate that trying to run Atkinson pistons in an Otto engine did not go well.

Ahhh.. Come'on Tooter...you of all people... lol - I'd like to see more optimism. The better answer would be, most people are too skurd to try it - Those who have...don't post here on YW...or just have better things to do than post cool EUREKA DIYs ... Like your manifold. :)

I've found a FULL 2012 Yaris 1NZ-FE cylinder head super cheap. Now just waiting to hear back if I can have it shipped or if I have to go pick it up.

[xnamerxx]

I wouldn't take the crank having a different part number as meaning anything more then it might not have a standard bolt pattern or it might require a longer snout.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Hsd-schnitt.jpgHere is a cutout of a 1nz-fxe from an autoshow.

You can see the giant mechanical flywheel, which doesn't have provisions for a starter and you can see the giant start/stop starter on the front of the engine.

I seriously doubt that the FXE piston would have any issues in the FE engine aside from the massive increase in compression that would cause some tuning issues. The compression being close to 13:1 doesn't really scare me as long as you can control the tune, which is pretty much only possible with a aftermarket ECU. I've seen 4.6l engines running 12.6:1 on 91 octane its doable just takes more work.

The piston being HYPEREUTECTIC doesn't mean it can't handle power it just means the piston is less elastic than a forged piston, meaning when its given a shock like say detonation it doesn't deform as much so if the material sees a strong shock it will crack rather than deform. Hypereutectic pistons have some great properties about them that make them suitable choices for performance oriented situation like the fact they have little heat deformations which means they don't compress and swell as much with heat which means you can run a piston tighter in the bore and you can also run a lighter piston which makes the engine more efficient.

[Viperoni]

Here's another thought; since 13:1 *may* be on the high side... are there thicker head gaskets we can use?

[tooter]

Ahhh.. Come'on Tooter...you of all people... lol - I'd like to see more optimism.

Sorry, I really didn't mean to come off as being negative. I was only commenting on the lack of feedback as to what happened after 13:1 pistons were installed. There's no information. I'm all for trying new things. Wait till you see what I'm cooking up... :wink:

The better answer would be, most people are too skurd to try it - Those who have...don't post here on YW...or just have better things to do than post cool EUREKA DIYs ... Like your manifold. :)

That manifold wasn't even my idea. I can't take credit for it. The guys in Puerto Rico did it first. I just thought it looked really cool and wanted one on my engine.

I've found a FULL 2012 Yaris 1NZ-FE cylinder head super cheap. Now just waiting to hear back if I can have it shipped or if I have to go pick it up.

Sounds good! :thumbsup:

The Atkinson engine is really strange. Did anyone notice that it fires on every revolution?

[JustDidIt]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Hsd-schnitt.jpgHere is a cutout of a 1nz-fxe from an autoshow.

Sooo Pretty! :thumbsup:

I seriously doubt that the FXE piston would have any issues in the FE engine aside from the massive increase in compression that would cause some tuning issues. The compression being close to 13:1 doesn't really scare me as long as you can control the tune, which is pretty much only possible with a aftermarket ECU. I've seen 4.6l engines running 12.6:1 on 91 octane its doable just takes more work.

The (static) CR would be 13:1 if you use Prius (FXE) pistons.
The dynamic CR is apparently 11:1 if you use FXE pistons

To answer your question, it depends. A quick googling seems to say that there's diminishing returns, especially since you're not improving the breathing of the motor and filling the combustion chamber with more air/fuel.
One calculator said 6.5% and that's more or less what I read on another site as well... which I think is a bit low, but could be bang on. In any case, a 6.5% increase is 7hp.

Here's another thought; since 13:1 *may* be on the high side... are there thicker head gaskets we can use?

If your original post is correct, then most I may need to change when running 11:1 compression is 91 instead of 87 pump gas, besides some EM. But even then....I run on 87 now...at the supposed static CR of 13:1 or dynamic 11:1.

Sorry, I really didn't mean to come off as being negative. I was only commenting on the lack of feedback as to what happened after 13:1 pistons were installed. There's no information. I'm all for trying new things. Wait till you see what I'm cooking up... :wink:

That manifold wasn't even my idea. I can't take credit for it. The guys in Puerto Rico did it first. I just thought it looked really cool and wanted one on my engine.

If if you weren't the original.. "Imitation Is The Best Form Of Flattery"... Your idea to hack up a manifold and try something new got me thinking. The way my MG1/MG2 sits, I could never use the 1NZ-FE intake or even your 'Tooter manifold' - the throttle body would conflict with my inverter. But I was thinking of doing something with the 2AZFE intake manifold because the throttle body would come out the passenger side...problem is - the manifold is plastic.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/New-Intake-Manifold-Toyota-Camry-Solara-2006-2005-2004-2003-2002-/00/s/NTAyWDUzMA==/$T2eC16VHJHQE9nzEylb3BQ--SGtkbw~~60_35.JPG

Not sure how I could 'weld' the 1NZ flange onto the 2AZFE plastic tubing :( I may just have to make/design my own. Luckily you already have the flange I need to weld onto! :thumbsup:

[JustDidIt]

I've found a FULL 2012 Yaris 1NZ-FE cylinder head super cheap. Now just waiting to hear back if I can have it shipped or if I have to go pick it up.

For a decent EMS...Still haven't found much info on whether or not I can get by with the AEM F/IC or if I'll have to step all the way into the AEM EMS2 $$$$ :( Tuning is my biggest concern at this point. Just not looking to drop $2k just yet on EMS.

[xnamerxx]

Here is a comment from someone I know who used to tune cars for AEM, about using it for tuning my car.

the FIC was good, but i only used it on FI apps. in FI apps we only retard the timing, in your case i would imagine you want to increase the timing, which it cant do, can't predict the future, only delay it

[tooter]

If if you weren't the original.. "Imitation Is The Best Form Of Flattery"... Your idea to hack up a manifold and try something new got me thinking. The way my MG1/MG2 sits, I could never use the 1NZ-FE intake or even your 'Tooter manifold' - the throttle body would conflict with my inverter. But I was thinking of doing something with the 2AZFE intake manifold because the throttle body would come out the passenger side...problem is - the manifold is plastic.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/New-Intake-Manifold-Toyota-Camry-Solara-2006-2005-2004-2003-2002-/00/s/NTAyWDUzMA==/$T2eC16VHJHQE9nzEylb3BQ--SGtkbw~~60_35.JPG



Is this the layout of your engine? And if it is, is your intake at the front of the engine or behind it?

http://www.myprius.co.za/Toyota_1NZ-FXE_Engine_01.JPG




Not sure how I could 'weld' the 1NZ flange onto the 2AZFE plastic tubing :(

I'm not sure, but I think that the plastic might have been ultrasonically welded. And that "snail" style manifold might still have clearance issues, but that could be easily determined simply by taking some measurements.

I may just have to make/design my own. Luckily you already have the flange I need to weld onto! :thumbsup:

No rpoblem. :smile:
I'll always be stocking them. Since the design is finalized they can be manufactured as needed.

[BEEF]

I am not sure if garm commented earlier in this thread but you can get pistons from him in a variety of thicknesses (compression ratios) so the big reason to use the prius pistons would be to save money.

I can't remember exactly what he said he had but it seems like he had 9:1, 11:1 and a 12:1. I may be a bit off on that one but you could ask him directly.

[JustDidIt]

I am not sure if garm commented earlier in this thread but you can get pistons from him in a variety of thicknesses (compression ratios) so the big reason to use the prius pistons would be to save money.

I can't remember exactly what he said he had but it seems like he had 9:1, 11:1 and a 12:1. I may be a bit off on that one but you could ask him directly.

Saving $$$ is the idea... otherwise your correct you can get Arias Pistons with the CR ratios of 9:1 - 14:1 for the 1NZ...

Basically I just need the Cams and Cam gear with EMS...and I can test out this "prius Pistons" theory - not only will I get a bump from swapping cams from 1NZ-FXE to 1NZ-FE (stock 78hp to 108hp) ..but I should get a small boost from the 10:5 to 11:1 CR increase. I am sourcing a full 1NZ head now.

[cali yaris]

^ Or CP pistons, or a couple of other brands. All available in whatever size/compression ratio you want. I wouldn't pay the premium just for the Arias name, but that's up to each customer; they do make great products.

[JustDidIt]

Is this the layout of your engine? And if it is, is your intake at the front of the engine or behind it?

http://www.myprius.co.za/Toyota_1NZ-FXE_Engine_01.JPG



My intake manifold is up front like the 1NZ-FE but the manifold is mounted/designed with the throttle body sitting directly on top in the middle of the manifold.

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7769/nhw20cai01.jpg

Picture of my front strut bar install... shows the layout better.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8577/nhw20frontstrutbarbrace.jpg

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i26/2605_2lo.jpg

I really think I have the clearance to make the 2AZFE intake manifold work or something similar because I don't have much in the way if the intake was routed to the passenger side of the engine as the 2AZFE would if mounted on my 1NZ.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l131/streetstealth/untitled2.jpghttp://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l131/streetstealth/untitled20.jpg

If the 2AZFE manifold doesn't work, My idea is to create the log style intake with fairly long intake runners. Basically the 1NZ-FE reversed. Such as examples below:

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/4052/modified1nzfxemanifold.jpg

[cali yaris]

I don't see any baffling in the large picture that xnamerx posted. The inside of the cutout intake manifold is shown in blue, right? Looks pretty smooth and open.

What's the purpose of a different manifold?

off-topic. How difficult would it be to transplant my motor/trans into a Prius? :biggrin:

[JustDidIt]

I don't see any baffling in the large picture that xnamerx posted. The inside of the cutout intake manifold is shown in blue, right? Looks pretty smooth and open.

What's the purpose of a different manifold?

off-topic. How difficult would it be to transplant my motor/trans into a Prius? :biggrin:

Haven't ever really looked inside mine but I doubt its as smooth. I'm sure this one was polished up and powder-coated for display.

The 1NZ-FXE manifold was tuned for for a specific RPM range with most efficient MPG... I'm not concerned about MPG but more looking to increase HP. Most N/A motors w/o going ITBs have longer intake runners - not like the Prius's 1NZ-FXE manifold.

Are you speaking of your 1NZ-FE? The Motor transplant shouldn't be difficult and was done by the Bonneville Landspeed Prius. They swapped the Otto Cycle 1NZ-FE from an Toyota Echo in but didn't do the Prius pistons swap. I'm looking to do both. Besides the MG1/MG2 and tranny the engine itself (mounting points) are exactly the same as the 1NZ-FXE

Transmission transplant - hmm...depends on if you want to keep the hybrid system or not.

[JustDidIt]

Here is a comment from someone I know who used to tune cars for AEM, about using it for tuning my car.

The FIC was good, but i only used it on FI apps. in FI apps we only retard the timing, in your case i would imagine you want to increase the timing, which it cant do, can't predict the future, only delay it.

I would probably just need to adjust the timing and A/F ratio - if you moved the timing chain up a bit manually with a AEM F/IC you could retard the timing to adjust according while adjusting the A/F ratio to compensate for the OEM tune (as you mentioned..can't increase timing with the AEM F/IC only retard)

[xnamerxx]

I don't see any baffling in the large picture that xnamerx posted. The inside of the cutout intake manifold is shown in blue, right? Looks pretty smooth and open.

What's the purpose of a different manifold?

off-topic. How difficult would it be to transplant my motor/trans into a Prius? :biggrin:

Atkinson cycle engines don't have large powerbands but rather a small efficiency zone, so whereas a traditional otto engine is probably about 27-33% efficient between 2-5.5k a Atkinson engine is 35-39% efficient between 4-4.5 rpms. So because it uses a hybrid drive transmission the engine never really cycles through its rpm range but rather like a CVT just has a gearing change that keeps the engine happy but still allows acceleration while the electric engine is providing the majority of the mechanical drive.

I don't think the transmission bolts up to the 1nz-fxe, it would be far simpler to get an electric engine/generator and attach it to the crank snout like a supercharger to get some extra assist that way. That kinda the way honda currently does it with the CRZ/Insite

http://www.fareastgizmos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Honda_crz_2013_engine.jpg

[JustDidIt]

Atkinson cycle engines don't have large powerbands but rather a small efficiency zone, so whereas a traditional otto engine is probably about 27-33% efficient between 2-5.5k a Atkinson engine is 35-39% efficient between 4-4.5 rpms. So because it uses a hybrid drive transmission the engine never really cycles through its rpm range but rather like a CVT just has a gearing change that keeps the engine happy but still allows acceleration while the electric engine is providing the majority of the mechanical drive

I don't 'feel' my Prius engine at all under 3000k but the usable rpm looks to be about 3000-5500. Swapping the cams yet keeping my pistons will essentially switch me over to otto cycle with a touch of compression increase.

[xnamerxx]

I can almost guarantee you, you'd be doing more harm then good by swapping to otto cycle cams in your engine. The prius is mainly powered by the electric engine, so to make that as efficient as possible the torque output on the gas engine needs remain a constant. The numbers I listed were WAG and so probably not accurate. Remember your gas engine isn't directly connected to the wheels, so its RPM's are also not a contant

Here is a website that explains how the HSD powersplit device works. Website (http://eahart.com/prius/psd/)

Upping the power on the gas engine doesn't help as much as you'd think since only torque at certain rpms provides assist. Since the engine only revs to 5k you'll be throwing away all the constant torque of the fxe to gain the peak torque of the fe all with major loss and no benefits. You have to think of the gas engine as a electricity generator/backup power unit rather than a PU. You can rev the nuts off the Prius engine and the car won't move unless the electric motor is moving.

[JustDidIt]

I can almost guarantee you, you'd be doing more harm then good by swapping to otto cycle cams in your engine. The prius is mainly powered by the electric engine, so to make that as efficient as possible the torque output on the gas engine needs remain a constant. The numbers I listed were WAG and so probably not accurate. Remember your gas engine isn't directly connected to the wheels, so its RPM's are also not a contant

Here is a website that explains how the HSD powersplit device works. Website (http://eahart.com/prius/psd/)

Upping the power on the gas engine doesn't help as much as you'd think since only torque at certain rpms provides assist. Since the engine only revs to 5k you'll be throwing away all the constant torque of the fxe to gain the peak torque of the fe all with major loss and no benefits. You have to think of the gas engine as a electricity generator/backup power unit rather than a PU. You can rev the nuts off the Prius engine and the car won't move unless the electric motor is moving.

TRD did it... with the Otto swap..

.....Motor transplant shouldn't be difficult and was done by the Bonneville Landspeed Prius. They swapped the Otto Cycle 1NZ-FE from an Toyota Echo in but didn't do the Prius pistons swap. I'm looking to do both.

You can rev the nuts off the Prius engine and the car won't move unless the electric motor is moving.

Not completely true...when the battery doesn't have enough juice to run the MG2, u can feel ONLY the gas engine struggling to push/pull the car along. With the battery charged enough from the regenerative braking from MG1, MG2 kicks in to assist the gas motor also boosting the inverter from 220v up to 500v.

[xnamerxx]

I don't think I've heard of the TRD Prius for one, I've heard of that random guy who build the Bonneville Prius and the really unsuccessful FSP Prius. For the Bonneville Prius using Otto cams helps move the powerband up which would help for top speed runs which require taller gearing.

[jetblast]

Now if someone just rips open a Prius and magically finds Carillo, Pauter, or even Molnar rods attached to these pistons. In that case, key up the Mission Impossible theme music as I put on the black spandex from my early spy days. Into the local junkyard all night long to harvest the jewels.....hey, this spandex used to fit. :biggrin:

C'mon! I can dream!!!!!!

[JustDidIt]

I don't think I've heard of the TRD Prius for one, I've heard of that random guy who build the Bonneville Prius and the really unsuccessful FSP Prius. For the Bonneville Prius using Otto cams helps move the powerband up which would help for top speed runs which require taller gearing.

I was referring the to Bonneville Prius...and I'm pretty sure these guys weren't random...

Toyota's Landspeed Prius gas-electric hybrid vehicle debuted in Bonneville, Utah as the first production hybrid to race across the Bonneville Salt Flats. The advanced technology of the popular hybrid mid-size sedan was taken to another level as Car and Driver editor Aaron Robinson drove the modified Prius on the three-mile short course, and set a hybrid record speed of 130.794 miles per hour. Other Landspeed Prius drivers included Prius executive chief engineer Shigeyuki Hori, and Fumiaki Kobayashi, group vice president technical and regulatory affairs, Toyota Motor North America, Inc. A Bonneville veteran Jim Leininger, a Toyota field product engineer, served as crew chief, while Dr. Hori kept a watchful eye on the project The Landspeed Prius' historical run also paved the way for a hybrid class to run at Bonneville.

(1.5L otto cycle motor swap from echo, modified intake routing, JDM TRD ECU, inverter upgrade, final gear changes, transmission cooling system, custom 1-off suspension, larger front diameter tires and custom exhaust)

Bonneville LandSpeed specs:

The Landspeed Prius ran a stock "Hybrid Synergy Drive" powertrain, which integrates a large electric motor with a 1.5-liter gasoline engine. The transmission final drive gear ratio for the gas engine was modified from the stock 4.23:1 to 3.2, while the inverter voltage was increased to 550 volts from 500 volts. The engine redline was also changed for optimum performance.

A transmission cooling system was added to the front passenger area to decrease the temperature of the inverter and electric motors and maximize efficiency. Regular ice was constantly added to the system to prevent overheating. Ambient temperature on the salt flats was nearly 100 degrees with nearly 100 degrees humidity.

Other modifications included the removal of the interior, the addition of a roll cage and lowering the suspension five inches for improved aerodynamics. The Landspeed Prius incorporates custom Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs. The inner fender wells were also altered to accommodate the lowered ride height.

The Landspeed Prius is equipped with unique 26-inch front and 25-inch rear Goodyear Eagle Landspeed Record tires.

To prepare for Bonneville's race environment the Landspeed Prius had a removable front tow bar and rear pushbar installed to assist the vehicle to the track.

Toyota will display the Landspeed Prius at the 2005 North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

ENGINE

* Gasoline Engine 1.5-liter, 4-cylinder, twin-cam, DOHC 16-valve
EFI with VVT-i, aluminum-alloy block and head

* Torque 97 lb.-ft. @ 4,200 rpm

* Horsepower 96 hp @ 5,800 rpm

ELECTRIC MOTOR/GENERATOR/POWER STORAGE

* Motor Type Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor

* Electric Motor Power Output 50kW/1,2000 - 1,540 rpm

* Torque 295 lb.-ft. @ 1-1,200 rpm

* Battery type Nickel-metal hydride

* System voltage 550 volts maximum from original 500

SUSPENSION
* Front Independent MacPherson strut suspension with
stabilizer bar Eibach Racing coil springs,
Bilstein shock absorbers

* Rear Torsion Beam with stabilizer bar, Eibach
Racing coil springs, Bilstein shock absorbers

* Tires 25 and 26-inch Goodyear Eagle Landspeed Record tires


SCCA Solo2 F Street Prepared Prius Specs:

This basic fact sheet covers the F street Prepared 2004 Prius team layout, modifications and basic vehicle specifications. This is a preliminary fact sheet and subject to changes and/or revisions.

Team:
Owner/ Crew chief- Jim Leininger

When it comes to Toyota-powered hot rods, it's hard to find anybody more knowledgeable than Jim Leininger. Jim has been racing at Bonneville since the '60s and is a field product engineer for Toyota.

Owner/ Driver- Matt Leininger
Co-driver/ fabricator- Mike Nakata

Logistics and back-up driver- Jose Alfaro

Modifications:

Drivetrain: Engine: Internal- Stock
External- modified intake routing in style of Toyota Motorsports Bonneville Prius. Further modified ECU controls (hi rpm redline, altered fuel and spark map) under development. TRD Yaris Header, Custom intake manifold w/ large bore thottle body under development.
Transaxle: Custom Weismann 1-way locking differential


Chassis: Interior: Motorsports Technical Center 6-point chromoly bolt in roll cage, Sparco Corsa racing seats, custom seat tracks; Sparco 383 Suede Steering wheel w/ billet touring car quick disconnect.

Exterior: TRD Japan front spoiler, TRD Japan custom flared front fenders. Custom rolled rear fenders. Custom graphics designed by Matt Leininger, applied by Molly Designs.

Suspension: Custom TRD USA adjustable coil over dampeners, tuned and valved by Progress Technologies. Eibach springs (325 lb/in front, 650 lb/in, rear). Front camber adjusters, modified rear sway bar.

Wheels: WedsSport Satin TC-005 one piece spun forged- 17x 8.5”, custom offset.

Tires: Dry- Hoosier AS305 225/45R17
Wet- Bridgestone RE750, shaved 225/45R17

Brakes: Modified Hawk Performance brake pads- “black compound”
Motul Synthetic hi-temp brake fluid.

Basic Specifications: Race weight, wet- 2772lbs (stock, dry- 2890lbs)
Weight distribution- 56/44 percent (stock, 59/41)
Overall height- 56.3in
Ground Clearence- 3.1in

[JustDidIt]

Now if someone just rips open a Prius and magically finds Carillo, Pauter, or even Molnar rods attached to these pistons. In that case, key up the Mission Impossible theme music as I put on the black spandex from my early spy days. Into the local junkyard all night long to harvest the jewels.....hey, this spandex used to fit. :biggrin:

C'mon! I can dream!!!!!!

Thats the spirit! :thumbsup:

[tooter]

It's fun to watch where this is heading... :smile:

[JustDidIt]

It's fun to watch where this is heading... :smile:

I'm just"gonna"doit - I may wait on buying my wheels if I can get a better understanding of this otto swap concept. :) Still haven't heard back from my 1NZ head source. :(

[tooter]

I look for omens...

...little signs that say "go", "stop", or "go back and try another way".

[cali yaris]

justdidit, were you looking for a head?

[JustDidIt]

justdidit, were you looking for a head?

Technically still need one. Found a awesome deal on a 2012 1NZ-FE but I haven't heard back if they will ship it to me or if I need to drive up to the LA area to pick it up. Not so much ur neck of the 'woods' but more east LA. Either way I am still needing one.

[Viperoni]

Don't know if it's in here, but this site sells Toyota OEM Prius pistons for $51 a piece:
http://www.trademotion.com/parts/2005/TOYOTA/PRIUS/?siteid=213747&vehicleid=1431023&section=ENGINE&group=PISTONS%2C%20RINGS%20%26%20BEARINGS&subgroup=PISTONS%2C%20RINGS%20%26%20BEARINGS&component=PISTON