Guns

[Black Yaris]

So I voted for Obama like everyone else, then I find out the Democrats are going to make it tough to buy new guns and may nix the CCW's

So to all of those out there with guns, what do you carry or just like to shoot

Just picked this up today, did a little reseach on the best CCW's, and this one topped the list
S&W 638, I opted for the "bodygaurd" and all that means is it is a spurless hammer
shoots +P 38 specials, nice and light, easy to conseal
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/jthomas43613/car%20shit/SW.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/jthomas43613/car%20shit/SW2.jpg

I also have a S&W SC9 - basicly a sub compact 9mm, 7 round mag
I will take some pix here soon

[firemachine69]

Hilary may have toyed with that idea, but Obama knows better. He got alot of party-jumpers, and is wise enough to NOT play with something that has had a 100% success rate where it's been implemented (i.e. lower crime rate in shall-carry states). I'm also dubious of him re-implementing the "assault weapons ban", as once again, statistics showed no measurable effects directly from it.


PK:

The right to carry should be up to the individual, NOT the government, and NOT someone to tell others they are not permitted to protect themselves and their families.

Unlike our socialist country up here... Where guns are perfectly acceptable to keep money safe, but considered dis-functional to dare ever think of using a firearm to protect one's like... :rolleyes:

[Black Yaris]

not to open a can of worms , but why do you need CCW?
are the States that dangerous?

yeah it is.... I was robbed at run point twice this year, and got cracked over the head with a 45 one of those times
my little brother was almost beaten to death a few weeks back because : he looked like someone else"

I got my CCW permit not to long after all that

I like the revolver more since it is just "pont and shoot" as opposed to my semi-auto that you need to rack the slide to put one in the hole

[firemachine69]

Very few people, and not all states are in compliance with federal CCW mandates.

It's a heavy burden for an individual, but one that should be left up to the individual.

[Black Yaris]

is everyone packing in the States?

hell yeah, we have the right to bear arms :thumbsup:

my brother, my dad, both of my wife's aunts, 1/2 the people I work with at Autozone (we do not carry at work though)

and more than 1/2 the ppl I know carry, some legally, some not

[Bob_VT]

Well I can see the attempted ban come back...... I bet they ban high capacity mags again.... ammunition has gone crazy with prices too and that's going to get worse too.

I like the 5 shot S&W snub noses..... no malfuncions and just the right amount of power. I just got my wife a Kel-Tec PF9 this year which is very small and light and got rid of a Snub nose 357 for that. I have a preference for my Glock 23 for carry but my favorite is my Colt Gold Cup 45

[Bob_VT]

is everyone packing in the States?

YUP!!! Everyone is. Keeps things interesting :smile:

[Black Yaris]

Very few people, and not all states are in compliance with federal CCW mandates.

It's a heavy burden for an individual, but one that should be left up to the individual.

any citizen of Ohio can carry a firearm in plain sight on his/her person with out a permit
we only need permits to conceal, and our permit has resiprocity in Michigan as well

[Black Yaris]

Well I can see the attempted ban come back...... I bet they ban high capacity mags again.... ammunition has gone crazy with prices too and that's going to get worse too.

I like the 5 shot S&W snub noses..... no malfuncions and just the right amount of power. I just got my wife a Kel-Tec PF9 this year which is very small and light and got rid of a Snub nose 357 for that. I have a preference for my Glock 23 for carry but my favorite is my Colt Gold Cup 45

yeah those +P 38 special hollow points pack a punch

I paid $20 for 100 rounds of 9mm on Tuesday, and today I paid $15 for 50 rounds of 38 specials

I think I am going to find someplace online that sells ammo cheep and nab 1000 rounds of each

[BailOut]

yeah it is.... I was robbed at run point twice this year, and got cracked over the head with a 45 one of those times
my little brother was almost beaten to death a few weeks back because : he looked like someone else

Rather than buy a gun I would move away from there so fast that the moving truck would lay rubber. Seriously. Life is just too short.

[Black Yaris]

damn , nothing really changed from the Wild wild west times lol. but i guess it's part of the American culture, not that there is anything wrong with culture.

Its just weird that in Canada everyone is pretty "happy" and not "dangerous" while a bit south people just want to blow each other away.

i suspect that the larger population has something to do with it , although it's just my opinon

we do not want to blow each other away, I hope I NEVER have to use my guns... but I am prepared to if, and only if, I NEED to

[SIPNGAS]

Very few people, and not all states are in compliance with federal CCW mandates.

It's a heavy burden for an individual, but one that should be left up to the individual.

I agree...this should be left to the individual along with training...

not all places in the states are like this and not everyone feels the need to carry a gun. The fact is, criminals will ALWAYS have access to firearms and I like knowing that someone on my side might be carrying as well.

I learned how to shoot when I was a kid and still keep up with that skill, however, unless something happens to me personally, I won't carry/own one.

I just don't feel the need...yet.

[Black Yaris]

so anyone can get a gun legally without a permit?? why?? so a psycho can get a gun? :iono:

thats just not logical

not anyone, you do need to pass an FBI background check, but besides that, anyone can
we do not even have to register our guns here in Ohio, where as you do in Michigan

[YamilR]

yeah it is.... I was robbed at run point twice this year, and got cracked over the head with a 45 one of those times
my little brother was almost beaten to death a few weeks back because : he looked like someone else"

I got my CCW permit not to long after all that

I like the revolver more since it is just "pont and shoot" as opposed to my semi-auto that you need to rack the slide to put one in the hole

That's why I carry in condition 1 :headbang:

[Black Yaris]

I agree...this should be left to the individual along with training...

not all places in the states are like this and not everyone feels the need to carry a gun. The fact is, criminals will ALWAYS have access to firearms and I like knowing that someone on my side might be carrying as well.

I learned how to shoot when I was a kid and still keep up with that skill, however, unless something happens to me personally, I won't carry/own one.

I just don't feel the need...yet.

One of the main reasons I bought the revolver is so my wife can shoot, the semi-auto is not the easiest thing to try and do when you are in an emergency situation, and not familier with the gun... with the revolver she just has to point and shoot

[Black Yaris]

i apologize i meant to say that it is easier for Americans to have opportunities to blow each other away.

in Quebec we have a law that in order to be "innocent" while defending yourself , one needs to respond to an attack with proportionate force, (i.e you can't pull a gun on someone who's attacking you with a knife). from what i know about the US there is no such law, just you attacked me i have the right to protect myself no matter what.

the law here is stated something like, if you are in imminate danger of major bodily harm orm in fear for your life

so yes I can pull my gun on a guy with a knife if he is close enough to cause bodily harm to me

[SIPNGAS]

Yeah, i'm not sure the law is spelled out like that...

I only know I have the right to defend myself, if I can..

how would that work, with proportionate force, for me, a small 5'1" woman against a 6'2" brute of a guy whether he had his fists, a knife or a gun? I dunno...

[Black Yaris]

Yeah, i'm not sure the law is spelled out like that...

I only know I have the right to defend myself, if I can..

how would that work, with proportionate force, for me, a small 5'1" woman against a 6'2" brute of a guy whether he had his fists, a knife or a gun? I dunno...

not sure about WI, but we can use dealy force for attemted rape, or anything where you are in fear for your life..... heavy ephasis on the "in fear for your life"
that is how it is spelled out in the Ohio code, every state is different

[Black Yaris]

well I guess that's what your Constitution is all about... freedoms, but with freedoms come obligations and consequences. And don't get me wrong I'm not judging anyone who carries a weapon , I'm just trying to understand your position and also why the US more dangerous than let's say Canada (we're probably just too cold to care lol).

well look at the UK, guns are prohibited, even for law enforcement
they still have violent crimes and ciminals with guns

[Bob_VT]

Ladder of force...... use of deadly force...... safe weapon use....... training is the key.

A handgun is not too much different than using a car to run someone over...... that's a reason why the gun debate goes array. If someone wants to do bodily harm to you ..... they will find a way...... baseball bat, hammer, razor blade or beat to death with a feather (which takes a LONG time)....... the best defense in any situation is to run and live to fight another day.

If a robbery is comitted the right way.... money and goods should be given up and the people should just do as told.

People who have been or are currently in the service will agree with me on this but, there is no glory in aiming a weapon at people.

[Kal-El]

is everyone packing in the States?

Absolutely not. Some of the guys on here are giving a false impression of the US and one that is a bad impression. More people do not own guns then those that do.

I respect and support responsible gun ownership but let's not make it sound like the US is a violent war like state where everyone's packing heat.

[SIPNGAS]

I'd have to research it...

I received an interesting email the other day about Australia (our Aussie members might be able to tell us if it's true or not) but I believe one of the statistics were that since carrying guns has been banned, violent crime has gone up 44%. I'm guessing because the criminals will always have guns and regular, law-abiding civilians are left largely unable to fight back.


PK... =)...lol..maybe it IS too cold...who knows...

[Bob_VT]

5' 1" person can cripple a person of any size with proper training and just using household items. I used to teach self defense classes to business men and show them how effective a Time magazine can be tightly rolled up. Weapons may be good but just knowing proper defense is better.

A properly placed strike or kick will give you time to run.

[Kal-El]

in Quebec we have a law that in order to be "innocent" while defending yourself , one needs to respond to an attack with proportionate force, (i.e you can't pull a gun on someone who's attacking you with a knife). from what i know about the US there is no such law, just you attacked me i have the right to protect myself no matter what.

This is a bit odd. If someone comes at you with a knife and you don't have a knife on you, you're out of luck if you happen to have a gun? :confused:

That's ridiculous. I guess if you plan on defending yourself, you need to carry every possible weapon. You have to carry a knife, gun, baseball bat, taser, ect... so that you can match the attacker. :iono:

[Bob_VT]

Hey PK don't get me wrong ....... I own weapons and use them mainly for recreation and hunting........ we even have a "tourist season" to keep things fun!

[Bob_VT]

well that's the law we have, if a guy comes at you with a bat you are allowed to answer with proportionate force , chair , big ass candle etc. basically a blunt instrument for a blunt instrument. etc

and as for your example if you shoot someone holding a knife you can be found guilty of murder (if you kill the person)

That is true in the USA too HOWEVER the key is fear for your life.... if you know you have the advantage and use it to win .... you can be charged.

That is part of the training for Use of Deadly Force.

[firemachine69]

In Canada, if you defend yourself with any type of functional self-defense tool, expect alot of your time and money to go down the drain.

I am still, however, a strong supporter of self-defense.

[Bob_VT]

right.... you considering me a tourist :eek:
:biggrin:

jk

Depends..... do you stop on the traveled part of the road.... step out and take a picture of a tree or a cow? I consider you a Comrad from the North........ only the people south of VT have tourist habits! :biggrin:

[Bob_VT]

In Canada, if you defend yourself with any type of functional self-defense tool, expect alot of your time and money to go down the drain.

I am still, however, a strong supporter of self-defense.

So if you have trained in hand to hand combat are you considered to be a functional weapon? Or if you play baseball and have a bat..... a carpenter with a hammer?

[firemachine69]

Yes, and the other two, it depends on how you answer the police as to why you had the "tool" in had at the time of the incident... :rolleyes:

[TLyttle]

My experience has been that the Americans are taught about the right to arm themselves, instead of being taught not to be a threat to anyone else. The key is EDUCATION, simple as that. Teach the population... ALL of it... the concept of right and wrong, and arming people will not be necessary.

I don't see that happening, as it will take at least 3 generations of intelligent education to get rid of the "I gotta defend myself" mentality...

If the US emptied the prisons of recreational pot users, they would have lots of room for people who shoot at each other.

[firemachine69]

Wherever there are honest, law-abiding citizens, there will be violent criminals.

Please don't spew liberal BS about "education".

The right to defend one's self is a fundamental fact of life. Government should NOT have any say in this.

As they say:

"A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged."

and

"Fear of firearms is a sign of retarded sexual maturity."

[MadMax]

Y'know, it's funny. We have a Canadian Air Force liaison officer where I work and one of the first things he did when he got here was buy a pistol! Not because he was afraid of crime or anything, he just wanted to own a handgun! I took him to the range and let him shoot my XD45 and M1911s, and in the end he bought a Para Ordnance. He even brought his teenage son out to shot a few weeks ago, and I let him shoot all of my pistols. He was nervous, but did enjoy it. My point is, there are many pro-gun Canadians out there...

I've got lot of guns, and Texas is a very gun-friendly state. Non-CHL holders can actually legally carry concealed weapons in their cars thanks to the Castle Doctrine that was passed and took effect a little over a year ago. We don't have to worry about defending our families and properties from criminals, as far as I know no grand jury has ever not passed a 'No Bill' (conviction) against a law-abiding citizen that used a firearm to defend themselves. When we say 'Don't Mess With Texas,' we mean it!

This country was founded thanks to the gun, and our founding fathers made sure its citizens would always have the right to arm ourselves by including it in the Constitution. It was one of the most insightful amendments, and the Supreme Court recently revalidated that right in its ruling on Heller vs DC.

By the way, gun registration in Canada has been a huge failure! It has been estimated that as many as five million gun-owning Canadians have not registered their firearms. As of June 2003, only 6.4 million firearms had been registered, despite a 1974 estimate of 10 million guns in Canada. More than 20,000 Canadian gun-owners have publicly refused to register their firearms. Many others are silently ignoring the law. The provincial governments of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba have dumped both the administration and the enforcement of all federal gun-control laws right back into Ottawa's lap, throwing the Canadian government into a paper civil war. The system is so bad that five Canadian provinces (British Columbia joins Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Nova Scotia, and Ontario) are refusing to prosecute firearm owners who fail to register. And the myth that registration does not lead to confiscation didn't happen in Canada! The handgun registration law of 1934 was the source used to identify and confiscate (without compensation) over half of the registered handguns in 2001. And the attempts to register hasn't had any effect on crime. Canadian homicide rates were virtually unchanged before and after gun registration requirements were implemented (151/100,000 people in 1998 and 149/100,000 in 2002). In fact, after the implementation of Canada's 1977 gun controls prohibiting handgun possession for protection, the 'breaking and entering' crime rate rose 25%, surpassing the American rate.

All those facts can be found in the latest issue of GunFacts (http://www.gunfacts.info/). And for why guns are important in civilization, this outstandign article explains it better than I ever could...


Why the Gun in Civilization?

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force.

Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it. In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats.

The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society wherethe state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes more confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable. When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

If there is anyone you can trust as much as a Texan, it's a Marine!

Cheers! M2

[MadMax]

By the way, I want add one of these to my arsenal; but I fear the new administration is gonna make it too tough/expensive to get one now...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/CopyofIMG_1754.jpg

Cheers! M2

[Black Yaris]

dang..... what have I started
just wanted to show my new new revolver, and asked if anyone wanted to show off their pieces

[Black Yaris]

maybe he wants to target shoot from a mile away

[Black Yaris]

he should be good, if his target is a 10x10 brick wall

[MadMax]

I've got squirrel problems...the Barrett M107 takes care of them quite nicely!

And I don't give a fuck about the Geneva Convention anymore, I hung up my uniform a few years back and am now a contractor.

Cheers! M2

[KCALB SIRAY]

The kids

http://www.imfdb.org/images/9/93/RugerP95.gif
Ruger P95 along with
http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_226430_imageset_01?$main-Large$

http://www.tamparacing.com/photopost/data/500/glock_laser_02.jpg
Glock 23

http://www.charlesstuart-associates.co.uk/m66%20mauser.JPG
270 Winchester rifle

http://www.serbu.com/top/super_shorty_870.jpg
Shorty Mossberg 12 gauge

[KCALB SIRAY]

and a few of these back in the day....way back, lol
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/06/hardees_badthings/image/colt_45.jpg

[GeneW]

not to open a can of worms , but why do you need CCW? are the States that dangerous?

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Incidentally, our murder rate hereabouts is well under 5.0/100,000, excepting nearby Pittsburgh, which has a burgeoning Drug Market. It's not the Drugs, it's the kiddies fighting over turf and debt. You cannot settle either one in Courts so they get physical about it.

IF guns "cause crime" than how come our heavily armed regions here have on average less crime than Chicago (murder capital of the US) which bans "assault weapons" and has frozen registry of handguns?

I think guns cause crime like shit causes flies.

Gene

[GeneW]

The kids

http://www.serbu.com/top/super_shorty_870.jpg
Shorty Mossberg 12 gauge


Congrats, that's a "Other Weapon" firearm, if the barrel is under 18 inches. In other words if it's not on the Registry you're gonna have some 'splaining to do.

Gene

[GeneW]

So I voted for Obama like everyone else, then I find out the Democrats are going to make it tough to buy new guns and may nix the CCW's
[/QUOTE]

Obama has his hands full with the economy to worry at this present time with firearms. At most we might see "gun show loophole" closures, which will essentially ban private transfers in the US.

CCWs? Twenty years ago most States were not CCW friendly. I think over forty today have some form of CCW. I cannot imagine the Democrats being stupid enough to piss off the "right" by taking away their licenses to carry (but not to shoot).

Heck, CCWs are fantastic gun registry data. You know who has a gun by going over these lists, plus it's voluntary compliance.

Gun nuts are safe at least until the first terrorist attack or Mall shooting comes along. Personally I think that Democrats remember 1994. They also gained control of the Congress by electing "Blue Dog" Democrats who are pretty Conservative. They won't want to lose control by enticing the NRA to call them "gun grabbers".

McCain supported the "gun show loophole closure" and said he'd sign a bill to ban "ugly guns" (aka Assault weapons). So it's not that much different.

BTW, if you were so worried about guns why did you vote for Obama? Don't you research candidates before you vote?

Gene

[GeneW]

lol why would you need a .50 Barett? the Geneva convention prohibits it's use against personnel.

Yeah, but you can damage "materiel", including their uniforms, gear and whatnot.

you wanna hunt deer with that or buffalo or maybe a Yaris?

Some people want the most powerful thing of an item, like buying a Lamborghini Countache or some other crazy fast car that can go two or three times your local speed limits or a high speed motorbike that can go about as fast.

The practical uses of such a rifle are extreme long range shooting, up to and over one mile away.

The limitations of such a rifle are its extreme costs, especially for semi automatic models (well over $2,000 US), heavy weight (well over ten pounds) and muzzle blast (which will remove your hat if you're not careful). The cost per shot is also excessive, well over $1.00 US per round.

You're not going to see someone robbing the Corner Five and Dime with one of these things. They are very very large firearms.

What is disconcerting is the prospect of sniper attacks. They're not used for this purpose, at least in the US. I've read rumors that the Secret Service has been requesting some sort of regulation on these firearms for security reasons.

One wonders when the requests will extend to long range target rifles, which can deliver accurate shots out to a mile? This is the primary reason for resistance to regulating these firearms in the US. You bend on one firearm and next year the Activists want "more", gotta keep that Cause going.

Gene

[yarswiss]

While I am morally against all forms of weapons designed to kill, I do find it reassuring to know that the US is probably the only country that cannot be defeated by invasion: since every citizen has the right to their own arsenal, an invading army would have one hell of a fight from all the citizenry! :tongue:

[*MAD DOG*]

so anyone can get a gun legally without a permit?? why?? so a psycho can get a gun? :iono:

thats just not logical

Can captavise get a gun? I heard he is mentally endangered :laugh:

[*MAD DOG*]

I'd have to research it...

I received an interesting email the other day about Australia (our Aussie members might be able to tell us if it's true or not) but I believe one of the statistics were that since carrying guns has been banned, violent crime has gone up 44%. I'm guessing because the criminals will always have guns and regular, law-abiding civilians are left largely unable to fight back.


PK... =)...lol..maybe it IS too cold...who knows...

Don't beleive everything you read in email. I really don't think violent crime has gone up 44% here in Australia, do you have any stats to back that up?

[Bob_VT]

dang..... what have I started
just wanted to show my new new revolver, and asked if anyone wanted to show off their pieces

It was an innocent question that started this...... or was it? Black Yaris you might have sounded innocent in the beginning but you knew that asking this question was like lighting a fuse or upsetting a keystone.:biggrin:

It has dragged our Canadian neighbors in, the Austalians...... LOL.

Back to your original question ....nice revolver..... now that things have advanced in the thread..... you might want to trade that revolver in for a Vulcan Gattling gun system when properly mounted will not transfer any recoil to the shooter.
http://worldweapons.org/home/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/797px-vulcan1.jpg

BTW the Vulcan fires at 100 rounds per second:eek:

[SIPNGAS]

Don't beleive everything you read in email. I really don't think violent crime has gone up 44% here in Australia, do you have any stats to back that up?

No..it was an email that rattled off statistics from a few countries that have prevented citizens from carrying guns...that's why I asked. I know you can't believe MOST of the information that's past around.

[MadMax]

doesn't the A10 Warthog have the Vulcan? if you mount one facing backwards on the Yaris your MPG will greatly improve lol

No, the Hawg has a GAU-8 30mm Gatling gun, the Vulcan is "only" 20mm.

The GAU-8 is awesome firepower, but it is the size of a Volkwagen Beetle...

http://www.456fis.org/MIS-4/GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1%5B1%5D.jpg

Cheers! M2

[Bob_VT]

Yup and the Vulcan is 20MM but the 30MM used in the A-10's are most effective with depleted uranium ammo for better penetration on a hard target......

[MadMax]

KCALB SIRAY

"The kids"

http://www.tamparacing.com/photopost/data/500/glock_laser_02.jpg
Glock 23

Nice! I have a LaserMax in my XD45, one of the first ones made. Some people don't like them, but mine has been great!

http://www.serbu.com/top/super_shorty_870.jpg
Shorty Mossberg 12 gauge

You have a Serbu Shorty? Sweet! I have a Mossy Persuader with a pistol grip for HD, with a 120-lumn SureFire 6P mounted on it plus a laser designator. I keep it loaded with 3" 00-buckshot Magnum shells, with some slugs on the side; so it is a real blunderbuss

Cheers! M2

[jclo3313]

Romainian AKM, and a Bear Arms Baikal IJ-70 (Makarov) Pistol. I like old Com block weapons.
1153711538

[firemachine69]

lol why would you need a .50 Barett? the Geneva convention prohibits it's use against personnel. you wanna hunt deer with that or buffalo or maybe a Yaris?


Another ignorant Canadian, no surprise.


How about you head down to the range during one of the open days and see a .50 in action. If you think it'll be anything like in the movies, you'll be sorely disappointed. It'll leave a slightly bigger hole as opposed to say a .308, a bit more recoil on the user, and that's about it.


Mad Dog:

Check out your government statistics. Ignore the BS sugar-coating. You are living in one of the most violent G12 countries in the world.

[darthbauer]

If anyone doesnt remember what all i have posted in the gun category let me know and I will repost them.

[jclo3313]

If anyone doesnt remember what all i have posted in the gun category let me know and I will repost them.

Fire away!:biggrin:

[darthbauer]

Screw it, here they are.


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q12/jb99ctu/DSC01199.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q12/jb99ctu/Download01-29-08001.jpg


I got more but no pics.

[SailDesign]

I have no pics, but here's the contents of the gun cupboard (NO concealed carry, or any other type of carry...)

IGA side-by-side 20-bore (20 "gauge" to you Yanks). Raccoon gun for the wife when we lived on the farm with 4 young kids
Winchester 52B .22 target rifle, 12 lbs of paper-punching fun
Mossberg lever-action .22 with scope for the kids. They've all left home but none have a home for it.
Mossberg bolt-action ditto.
Both of the Mossbergs were gifts from one of the guys who use to work on the farm. Neither will make the cut when we next move (if ever)

[jclo3313]

Darth check this out.
11550

11551

[Bob_VT]

I am partial to the fully adjustable MagPul PRS for the AR

[darthbauer]

The PRS is nice but I like it a lot better on a Sig 556 than on an AR.

[Bob_VT]

Actually my Rock River NM A4 only has one change (or accessory) I have a Rock River scope mount which mounts on the flat top.

[darthbauer]

It's hard to tell but mine is also a RRA. I have a bushmaster carbon lower that im still not sure what im doing with.

[GeneW]

lol thats gotta be the best loophole i've heard in a long time. :bellyroll:

but for the rest of your post i agree with you. i can see target practice or recreational shooting as reason for owning a .50/

They're mainly used for long long range shooting. Out to a mile away.

oh and i don't envy the Secret Service guys having to protect their new pres. they should ask for a raise since their chances of biting a bullet for him just skyrocketed.

From what I've seen of the man he's gonna try to be reasonable. We'll see. If he's not, he can't do too much damage that cannot be reversed before 2010, when the next round of Congressional elections arrive.

The vote is how we handle things in the US. If someone approached me with a serious plot to harm a politician I'd dime 'em out, just out of principle.

That's all we need, to become a freaking Banana Republic... not while I have anything to do with it.

first African-american president and a lot of these racist gun toting idiots that have access to the Barett.

Most Racist gun toting idiots lack the emotional control needed for long range sniping. The mindset needed to be a racist, and hate someone enough to do them harm, doesn't seem to me to be compatible with such skills.

Most racists I know are immature and tend to blame others rather than deal with things and rise above them. They don't see other racial groups as really human. Hence they lose out on a ton of useful life and cultural experience from other races.

Some of us got over this crap and appreciate the human condition and what others have to teach. We really are all of the same race, even if we talk and look different.

Gene

[Nigal]

not to open a can of worms , but why do you need CCW?
are the States that dangerous?



No, we are that free. :)

[Nigal]

I carry a Springfield XD 40 most times and then I have a Taurus PT 111 compact nine I carry when wearing shorts or light clothing. The XD is my favorite because it's the most comfortable and is smooth as 18 year old scotch.

[MadMax]

No, we are that free. :)

Great answer! :clap: :headbang:

Cheers! M2

[SailDesign]

No, we are that free. :)

I'd disagree, but I know I'm in the minority here. If you feel the need to carry a concealed weapon, you are not free. True freedom would negate the need for such.

[SIPNGAS]

That would be true in an ideal world where people treated others with respect and there were no jackasses who were either greedy, evil, or desperate. Free will is a double-edged sword and not everyone uses it for good.

[KCALB SIRAY]

Congrats, that's a "Other Weapon" firearm, if the barrel is under 18 inches. In other words if it's not on the Registry you're gonna have some 'splaining to do.

Gene

I'll be damned if Gene doesn't Google everything. :laugh: Yep you are correct, it's 16", and the least of my worries

[SailDesign]

That would be true in an ideal world where people treated others with respect and there were no jackasses who were either greedy, evil, or desperate. Free will is a double-edged sword and not everyone uses it for good.

Hence my mention of "True freedom". "Free will" is a whole 'nuther story....

[SIPNGAS]

Yup..I got it....

[MadMax]

I'd disagree, but I know I'm in the minority here. If you feel the need to carry a concealed weapon, you are not free. True freedom would negate the need for such.

And just how do you think we got that freedom? And just how have we maintained that freedom for over 230 years?

We are talking about the freedoms our founding fathers had the forethought to grant us, and ones many brave Americans have fought and died to preserve.

It is one of the things that makes this country truly free, and having spent 25 years of my life defending the Constitution and those freedoms, I take offense to the comment that exercising your Second Amendment right is not freedom!

[SailDesign]

And just how do you think we got that freedom? And just how have we maintained that freedom for over 230 years?

We are talking about the freedoms our founding fathers had the forethought to grant us, and ones many brave Americans have fought and died to preserve.

It is one of the things that makes this country truly free, and having spent 25 years of my life defending the Constitution and those freedoms, I take offense to the comment that exercising your Second Amendment right is not freedom!

Max,
I'm not going to argue. You have your view, I have mine - leave it lie.

[MadMax]

Max,
I'm not going to argue. You have your view, I have mine - leave it lie.

You stated your view, so I stated mine. Are you denying the First Amendment as being a part of freedom now as well?

[SailDesign]

You stated your view, so I stated mine. Are you denying the First Amendment as being a part of freedom now as well?

I'm not denying you the right to mouth off about anything at all. i'm just saying that I'm not going to play....

[SailDesign]

can we go back to talking gun spec instead of politics ?

Any time. Please!

[darthbauer]

Congrats, that's a "Other Weapon" firearm, if the barrel is under 18 inches. In other words if it's not on the Registry you're gonna have some 'splaining to do.

Gene


Sorry but barrel laws do not pertain to weapons that can not be fired from the shoulder. If there is no stock then you can have any length barrel on anything. That's why AR pistols can have 7.5 inch barrels and not be SBR's.

[darthbauer]

Also, on a side note, shotgun barrels have to be 18 inch or over if a stock is on the weapon. 16 inches is only rifles or pistols that can be fired from the shoulder.

[darthbauer]

If there is no stock then the law see's it as not being able to be fired from the shoulder.

[darthbauer]

So this would be an SBR

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q12/jb99ctu/SBR.jpg


And this would not

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q12/jb99ctu/nonsbr.jpg

[darthbauer]

Their both fun but one is registered as a pistol and the other a rifle. Also, once an AR pistol is registered as a pistol then you can not convert it to a short barreled rifle and register it that way.

[SailDesign]

Their both fun but one is registered as a pistol and the other a rifle. Also, once an AR pistol is registered as a pistol then you can not convert it to a short barreled rifle and register it that way.

Dontcha just love the way laws are written? :smile:

[firemachine69]

why are you calling me ignorant canadian? maybe i didn't pop out from my mom with a gun in my hands but i must disappoint you i know more than you think about weapons and their potential to destroy. i for one seen the effects of weapon fire on flesh unlike solid cement or metal targets. solid targets won't have the same damage as flesh targets its physics. a simple 7.62mm round will rip the flesh to shreds since they have the tendancy to tumble once inside the target rather than go straight. i spent my first 10 years on a military base in Poland, i went to the shooting ranges and i even attended class given to recruits about weapon damage.


it is you i believe that watched too many Rambo movies. ask any soldier that's been in a conflict and they will all say that people just don't drop dead from being shot (the lucky ones do). A sniper is trained to kill not to maim, this is job one shot one kill. and i'm sorry but a shot from .50 Barett to the head will leave you with a year supply of jam. so please think before you post , and don't go jumping to conclusions



Once again, you've proven ignorance.

If the terminal velocity of the round happens to be lower (i.e. reaching out and "touching" them at a mile away, yes, the mess will be pretty decent, but not much greater than a .308 @ roughly half a mile. If the poor sap is exceedingly close, wears no hard (or soft) armor, and ball ammunition is used, it'll likely go right through him, like a spear. Because if you were truly trained by the military, you'd know with such a large caliber to shoot for center of mass (C.O.M.), NOT for rambo-style "head shots".


It's all in the ammo, and how it's loaded. A .308 +P HP jacketed round will be supremely more devastating as opposed to a ball .50. I shoot as a hobby, and still do, and I am fully aware of the potential for damage and such, and what particular bullet with power package will deliver in terms of flesh damage.


This is simply physics.

[darthbauer]

Dontcha just love the way laws are written? :smile:

Oh yeah and its fun to find the loop holes to get around them.

[firemachine69]

If you're truly interested, the US Army has a paper that's highly detailed. IIRC it was over 200 pages, I should find it again.

Most people (including most first-time field veterans) can't properly assess bullet wounds due to shock. This was a sticking point of that paper.

I have not had cause to shoot anyone in my lifetime, and hope I never do.

And camell, no pics??

[slothman86]

not to open a can of worms , but why do you need CCW?
are the States that dangerous?

better to have and not need, than to need and not have...

[darthbauer]

XD's are nice but boo on the streamlight :thumbdown:

[SIPNGAS]

Wow...

[darthbauer]

It might have something to do with the fact that i have ties with Surefire.


I use a combo of an X200 with crimson trace grips on my 226.

[firemachine69]

Some people object to having a flashlight pointing in the same direction as the muzzle - breaking a fundamental rule of firearms, do not aim what you do not intend to shoot - but, it's a personal choice.

[slothman86]

http://worldweapons.org/home/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/797px-vulcan1.jpg
:

I am attaching this to my yaris somehow!

[darthbauer]

If you see that light it is not looking to good for you anyways!


Exactly. If you see the light it's to late for you.

I use the laser before I use the light.

[slothman86]

Here is my baby! Springfield Armory .45 ACP with TLR-2 streamlight laser and LED light, Truglo Tritium fiber optic night sights, tried to get sights and laser but could not get the sights to come out right. Teasing my dog with the laser!:laugh: Needless to say the gun has had its fair share of target shooting!


Quit arguing with each other post pics of guns and be happy.:thumbup:

Yep, I have the XD-9 variant. How much did you pay for the light/laser?

[firemachine69]

I apologize PK, I mistook you originally for a typical montrealer who's terrified of anything with a barrel - my apologies!


Anywho, to get this back on track, here's a pic of my Savage 93GL:

(left-hand .22wmr)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/firemachine69/Picture001.jpg

(Not shown in pic: Bushnell .22 rimfire 3-9x 40mm scope).

[MadMax]

Camelll

Nice XD! I have the same thing, but with the LaserMax (one of the first made for it, I pre-ordered and had to wait for months!)...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/LaserMaxXD45Service.jpg
(Not my gun, just a pic from the LaserMax web site)

I have not had any problems with alignment, and it is my primary carry weapon. I also compete with it (IDPA) and the weapon has been flawless! I consider it to be the most reliable and capable handgun I have ever carried!

Cheers! M2

[baked_limabeans]

I want to get an XDm.

[intake]

i think oabam is going to be killed soon by some fanatic.
this is an extreme risk for USA, black people , gangs, poors etc can make a civil war if this appens
everyone need a gun, the big one

[darthbauer]

i think oabam is going to be killed soon by some fanatic.



Not exactly something you want to say on the internet, or over the phone for that matter.

[MadMax]

It isn't a big secret...

U.S. presidents always face an array of threats. Four U.S. presidents have been assassinated: Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinley and John F. Kennedy. Assassination attempts have frequently occurred, with every president since Richard Nixon having been targeted for assassination, with some threats more credible than others.

The tremendous amount of power and symbolism of the office makes U.S. presidents prime targets for assassination. Obama will be no exception. But in addition to bearing the title of president, Obama also will be the first black president — something that introduces a whole new and more serious threat matrix.

Two plots to assassinate Obama were broken up during the campaign season, and several more remain under investigation. During his campaign, Obama was the target of a few threats that attracted considerable press coverage but in the end didn’t amount to much. Press portrayals aside, reviewing the facts establishes that these incidents were certainly not viable threats to Obama.

Presidential security is a serious national security matter. A successful (or even unsuccessful) attack on a president causes instability in the United States and in the wider world. And given the especially delicate balance that the United States, Russia and countries of the Middle East are striking right now, an attack on the president would destabilize U.S. foreign policy and have a heightened impact on national security.

(Source: STRATFOR (http://www.stratfor.com))

PLus, I don't even know who "oabam" is! :iono:

I think the gun industry is playing this election up for profits as well. Today's news reports about UBL planning something "bigger than 9/11" is another play on America's fears. Hell, according to the apocalypse prophecy, we've only got four years left anyway!

Still, I am a strong believer in the Second Amendment...

Cheers! M2

[darthbauer]

I know its not a secret but its still something that really shouldn't be talked about. If he is killed and it's with a gun its just going to make Biden want to make gun laws even worse.


Now with that said, yeah I watched his speech to see if anything was going to happen or not.

[Nigal]

I'd disagree, but I know I'm in the minority here. If you feel the need to carry a concealed weapon, you are not free. True freedom would negate the need for such.

Sorry but I do consider being able to be in charge of my own defense to be a freedom. Because this entails me being responsible for myself, whereas your freedom deals and depends on the behavior of others.

[Nigal]

And just how do you think we got that freedom? And just how have we maintained that freedom for over 230 years?

We are talking about the freedoms our founding fathers had the forethought to grant us, and ones many brave Americans have fought and died to preserve.

It is one of the things that makes this country truly free, and having spent 25 years of my life defending the Constitution and those freedoms, I take offense to the comment that exercising your Second Amendment right is not freedom!

Great post. Ya know if shit gets really bad I'm depending on the good folks of Texas to leave the Union first so I can come there to live free. Don't let me down!! LOL!

[Black Yaris]

nice guns everyone has..... my brother also has an xd45, I get to shoot with him every once in a while, I like how it shoots, but is too big of a carry weapon for me....my .38 hydro shocks +p's pack a punch closer to a 45

[Bob_VT]

http://www.snubnose.info/docs/snubby_ballistics.htm
And
http://www.theboxotruth.com/

Good write ups about ballistics

[Black Yaris]

Oh, and here is my other carry weapon
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/jthomas43613/car%20shit/9mm.jpg
S&W CS9

[PaidTimeOff]

Friend of mine used to live in Texas, where basically everyone carries a gun with them. He told me because of this, crime isn't as rampant as other areas of the country. Criminals will think twice about trying to mug someone with their gun when the person they're mugging probably has a gun of their own.

I don't own a gun myself, nor would I personally want to carry one, but real world experiences show that if everyone had a gun, crime would no doubt be lower.

If someone really wants a gun, they're going to get one either legally or illegally. If you don't let law-abiding citizens who will own guns responsibly get them, then the only people with guns will be the criminals.

[Bob_VT]

Oh, and here is my other carry weapon
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/jthomas43613/car%20shit/9mm.jpg
S&W CS9

I like the CS9 since it has a single column mag. Easier to carry.

[Bob_VT]

http://i.pbase.com/o4/49/625949/1/54103083.COBRAY37MMGRENADELAUNCHER.jpg

Road rage weapon

[nemelek]

My dad's 45 from WW2. I haven't fired it in 10 years.

[Bob_VT]

Complete with a lanyard loop. Very nice. Keep it oiled.

Yup PK thats a 1911

[Bob_VT]

What brand is it? And what is the serial # just use xxx for the last 3 digits and I will look it up.

It has the pre-war commercial grip plates and the trigger has been changed to the long trigger by the looks.

[stuffy]

Friend of mine used to live in Texas, where basically everyone carries a gun with them. He told me because of this, crime isn't as rampant as other areas of the country. Criminals will think twice about trying to mug someone with their gun when the person they're mugging probably has a gun of their own.

I don't own a gun myself, nor would I personally want to carry one, but real world experiences show that if everyone had a gun, crime would no doubt be lower.

If someone really wants a gun, they're going to get one either legally or illegally. If you don't let law-abiding citizens who will own guns responsibly get them, then the only people with guns will be the criminals.


your friend needs to check his facts, texas has one of the highest rates of violent crime and property crime in your country.

this probably has more to do with median income than whether or not people carry guns.

[PaidTimeOff]

your friend needs to check his facts, texas has one of the highest rates of violent crime and property crime in your country.

this probably has more to do with median income than whether or not people carry guns.

The state also has the 3rd highest population of all the states in the nation. More people = more crime regardless. I'm going by what my friend, WHO LIVED THERE, experienced. How long have you lived in Texas? Also, obviously different areas of a state are more dangerous than others. He's just going by what he himself experienced and what people he knew in the area experienced. He felt that everyone carrying guns led to much fewer muggings and violent crimes in his area because criminals don't have to worry only about the police shooting them up when they pull a gun out.

And regardless, you've ignored my final point. If guns are outlawed, then the only people with guns are the criminals. Illicit drugs are also illegal, but that doesn't stop people from finding ways to get them.

[darthbauer]

My dad's 45 from WW2. I haven't fired it in 10 years.


Get to the range now and fire off a mag. It wants to be shot.

[darthbauer]

Nice!:drool:


Thanks. Try not to drool to much, might cause rust.

[stuffy]

The state also has the 3rd highest population of all the states in the nation. More people = more crime regardless. I'm going by what my friend, WHO LIVED THERE, experienced. How long have you lived in Texas? Also, obviously different areas of a state are more dangerous than others. He's just going by what he himself experienced and what people he knew in the area experienced. He felt that everyone carrying guns led to much fewer muggings and violent crimes in his area because criminals don't have to worry only about the police shooting them up when they pull a gun out.

And regardless, you've ignored my final point. If guns are outlawed, then the only people with guns are the criminals. Illicit drugs are also illegal, but that doesn't stop people from finding ways to get them.

it's got nothing to do with the size of the population, it is the rate of crime per capita.

i wasnt' commenting on your final point- only that your friend's anecdotal evidence isnt' borne out by the statistics.
don't take my word for it, just google crime rates.

[MadMax]

your friend needs to check his facts, texas has one of the highest rates of violent crime and property crime in your country.

this probably has more to do with median income than whether or not people carry guns.

If you are so keen on fact-checking, then how about doing a little yourself? Because you are the one who needs to check his facts!

According to the 2004 US Census (http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html), Texas was ranked 12th out of 50 states for violent crimes. Sorry, but 12th cannot be called "one of the highest rates of violent crime and property crime in your country."

And, Texas has the second highest GDP of all the states (source (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/08s0649.pdf)), so your income remark is bullshit as well!

So you've been called out on two accounts. Maybe you ought to do a little more research next time before spouting crap that you cannot support!

[bigjimmysrock]

So I voted for Obama like everyone else, then I find out the Democrats are going to make it tough to buy new guns and may nix the CCW's

So to all of those out there with guns, what do you carry or just like to shoot

Just picked this up today, did a little reseach on the best CCW's, and this one topped the list
S&W 638, I opted for the "bodygaurd" and all that means is it is a spurless hammer
shoots +P 38 specials, nice and light, easy to conseal
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/jthomas43613/car%20shit/SW.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j111/jthomas43613/car%20shit/SW2.jpg

I also have a S&W SC9 - basicly a sub compact 9mm, 7 round mag
I will take some pix here soon

well im in texas so i didnt vote for oboma like you and further more watched tv before hand to know the little things like were they stand on such topics, and yes im going to get a shotgun here pretty soon to take care of any intruders!

[darthbauer]

I knew all to well Obama's stance on gun control and the 2nd amendment.

I voted for McCain even though he was a supporter of the original AWB.

[stuffy]

@madmax,
it's true i did a bit of generalizing but as far as i'm concerned, i'm not wrong.

nope, i didn't spend a lot of time studying the stats, you're right, 12th is not one of the highest but it's in the top quarter- so my apologies for that giant leap

texas has a big population, so sure it has a big gsp, but gsp per capita is below average.
what i was really talking about median family incomes, in which texas is below the national average.
the reason i brought this up was to illustrate the correlation between crime and lower incomes- it's the same in canada, i'm sure it's the same in texas.

[MadMax]

well im in texas so i didnt vote for oboma like you and further more watched tv before hand to know the little things like were they stand on such topics, and yes im going to get a shotgun here pretty soon to take care of any intruders!

Mossberg Persuader!

http://www.shooterssupply.org/guns/gun242.jpg

The stock comes off to make an excellent pistol-gripped HD shottie when loaded up with 3" Magnum 00-buckshot shells! Should cost around $320, but prices have gone up. Check out the next SAXET Gun Show (http://saxetshows.com/) at the Freeman Coliseum 6-7 December, there still may be some deals.

Cheers! M2

[MadMax]

@madmax,
it's true i did a bit of generalizing but as far as i'm concerned, i'm not wrong.

nope, i didn't spend a lot of time studying the stats, you're right, 12th is not one of the highest but it's in the top quarter- so my apologies for that giant leap

texas has a big population, so sure it has a big gsp, but gsp per capita is below average.
what i was really talking about median family incomes, in which texas is below the national average.
the reason i brought this up was to illustrate the correlation between crime and lower incomes- it's the same in canada, i'm sure it's the same in texas.


Convince yourself all you want, but once again you are not basing your assumptions on facts and once again you are wrong! Texas is ranked 20th out of 50 for per capita GDP based on United States Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) data from 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita_(nominal)). I am sure you can do the math, 20th out of 50 is not below average.

I am sure you would be upset if someone generalized that all Canadians are pacifists, boring, uncritical (with a few exceptions), socialist, anti-gun, non-patriotic, resentful towards success and are blindly and obsessively anti-American. Plus, you lack culture...have you ever heard of anyone eating at a Canadian restaurant or driving a Canadian car? I suspect you would be, and I could understand why. I was lucky enough to work with the Canadian military on several occassions while with NATO, and I am good friends with the Canadian liaison officer at the organization where I work; so I know those sterotypes aren't always true. So do us all a favor and quit making generalizations about a place you most likely have never been to and one you know nothing about. Or, if you feel you must continue to do so, try doing a little research first and back up your claims with facts. Otherwise, you just end up looking like a jerk!

[Nigal]

And thus ends today's lesson on the origins of the quote, "Don't mess with Texas!". LOL!

[*MAD DOG*]

Ok gun nuts i have a few questions for you.

Here where i live we have a real hard time trying to qualify for a thing called a shooters license. However, in CA anyone with id can get a gun and shoot till your finger don't work no more at a shooting range.

Anyway my question is....

With a glock 9mm, when you put a new cart/mag in and take off the safety, is it true that you have to cock it before you can fire? Otherwise there would be no round in the chamber right?

Police where i live use revolvers so they can just draw and shoot if need be. With a glock you cant just draw and shoot, you need to cock it first. So if someone is pointing a revolver at a policeman and a policeman has only a glock 9mm on him, technically wouldnt the person with the revolver win because the policeman has to get his gun out of his holster, then using two hands cock the weapon before he can fire, whereas the person with the revolver just needs to point and shoot.

Am i right? If so, why the f do the police here want to "upgrade" from a revolver to a glock (apart from being able to have more ammo in the gun)?

Or do people with a glock leave it cocked in there holster with safety on?

Just wondering because i love guns, i don't own any but have always appreciated the US approach to the right to bear arms.

[*MAD DOG*]

So do you have to cock it first to put that bullet in the chamber and then walk around with cocked gun?

[*MAD DOG*]

So most people with a glock would have a bullet in the chamber after cocking the gun and putting on the trigger safety?

[Nigal]

Ok gun nuts i have a few questions for you.

Here where i live we have a real hard time trying to qualify for a thing called a shooters license. However, in CA anyone with id can get a gun and shoot till your finger don't work no more at a shooting range.

Anyway my question is....

With a glock 9mm, when you put a new cart/mag in and take off the safety, is it true that you have to cock it before you can fire? Otherwise there would be no round in the chamber right?

Police where i live use revolvers so they can just draw and shoot if need be. With a glock you cant just draw and shoot, you need to cock it first. So if someone is pointing a revolver at a policeman and a policeman has only a glock 9mm on him, technically wouldnt the person with the revolver win because the policeman has to get his gun out of his holster, then using two hands cock the weapon before he can fire, whereas the person with the revolver just needs to point and shoot.

Am i right? If so, why the f do the police here want to "upgrade" from a revolver to a glock (apart from being able to have more ammo in the gun)?

Or do people with a glock leave it cocked in there holster with safety on?

Just wondering because i love guns, i don't own any but have always appreciated the US approach to the right to bear arms.

After you pull the slide back and load a round the Glock is ready to fire. The only safety on a Glock is the trigger safety. There is no safety to be put on or taken off. You have a round in the pipe and you simply squeeze the trigger. You automatically squeeze the trigger safety as you draw the trigger back. This makes it naturally safer and faster than a revolver because with a revolver you either have to cock the hammer on a single action or draw the trigger through a much harder double action trigger.

btw- "Gun nut" is seen as a derogatory term with gun owners.

[stuffy]

Convince yourself all you want, but once again you are not basing your assumptions on facts and once again you are wrong! Texas is ranked 20th out of 50 for per capita GDP based on United States Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) data from 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita_(nominal)). I am sure you can do the math, 20th out of 50 is not below average.

I am sure you would be upset if someone generalized that all Canadians are pacifists, boring, uncritical (with a few exceptions), socialist, anti-gun, non-patriotic, resentful towards success and are blindly and obsessively anti-American. Plus, you lack culture...have you ever heard of anyone eating at a Canadian restaurant or driving a Canadian car? I suspect you would be, and I could understand why. I was lucky enough to work with the Canadian military on several occassions while with NATO, and I am good friends with the Canadian liaison officer at the organization where I work; so I know those sterotypes aren't always true. So do us all a favor and quit making generalizations about a place you most likely have never been to and one you know nothing about. Or, if you feel you must continue to do so, try doing a little research first and back up your claims with facts. Otherwise, you just end up looking like a jerk!

the numbers i saw had texas ranked 30th in gsp per capita, not 20th. could have been older numbers i was looking at.
if that's the case, i stand corrected. i'm not researching a thesis here, just talking on a forum.
i still stand by the connection of lower income and high crime rates- this applies to canada and texas

my comments were in no way meant to insult the state of texas, they were directed at the comment that texas has a low crime rate because of the high rate of gun ownership in the state.
this is just not true, and regardless of whether texas is 3rd or 12th, the crime rate is high compared to the rest of the united states.

i could care less if you want to generalize about canada or canadians- this just isn't what i was doing concerning texas, if you took it that way you're just a bit too sensitive.

if it needs being said to massage a fragile ego, i think the u.s. is a great country that canada shares a lot more in common with than not,
and yes, never been to texas but i'm sure it's just as great as the rest of the country (which i do visit on a regular basis).

[MadMax]

Somebody already stated in this thread the best line about gun ownership. "I would rather have and not need then to need and not have". Oh yeah and I have seen to many zombie movies! :bellyroll::bellyroll:

Yep. we made the same comparisons when it came to parachutes.

As for carrying a semi-auto in 'Condition 1' (with a round in the pipe), it is the only way to carry a semi-auto for self-defense! Some people are concerned about accidental/negligent discharges; but they should be more concerned about the ready state of their weapon if they need it! I carry my XD with 13+1, a full magazine plus one in the chamber. It has a double safety, one in the grip and a second in the trigger; but yes both are activated by grabbing the weapon to shoot it. That is why the #1 rule in gun safety is to keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

But to answer Mad Dog's (no relation) question, when you load a semi auto pistol there will not be a round chambered unless the slide is locked backward from the last round of the previous magazine (or it has been manually locked back). A round will chamber when you release the slide and it moves forward. As a matter of fact, that is how you put a weapon into 'Condition 1,' you load a full magazine, chamber a round by cycling the slide, then you release the magazine and add another round to it to replace the one that is now chambered.

Most police departments have gone from revolvers to semi-automatics because the latter has a greater capacity (between 7 to 13 rounds per magazine, plus one in the chamber). Earlier semi-autos were not as reliable as revolvers, but that is no longer the case. I have at least 1500-2000 rounds through my XD45 without a single failure to feed or extract. That gun has been put through the torture test (http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php) without a single problem. Newer models now are available with a third safety on the slide, but that is only to make it more idiot-proof as the best safety a person can have is between their ears! I want the ability to draw and fire my weapon without having to add a step to take off a safety, which is why I carry an XD and not one of my M1911s.

Finally, the term 'gun nut' is somewhat derogatory (most prefer 'gun enthusiast') but it doesn't bother me that much. I would rather be a 'gun nut' than 'a nut with guns!'

And despite what Stuffy says, he was making unsubstantiated remarks about Texas and whereas that may fly up in Canada, folks down here don't take kindly to false accusations. He can make all the claims he wants, but the facts speak the truths; and if anyone is interested in the truth, I would suggest reading the official state analysis of crime available here (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/crimereports/07/citch2.pdf). Yes, it does show that the number of crimes has gone up slightly; but considering the mass influx of residents moving here the averages are actually decreasing, and that trend has been continuing since 1993 (see pg 7).

Sorry pal, but the rule down here is that you have to back up what you say!

Cheers! M2

[Nigal]

I always liked...

"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

[MadMax]

I would highly suggest you go back and read the Gun Facts document (http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.0/GunFacts5-0-press.pdf) I referenced earlier. Maybe that way you'll actually have some facts to study, instead of the anti-gun hyperbol you seem to readily accept!

FACT: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.

(Sources: Bureau of Justice Statistics, online database, reviewing Texas and U.S. violent crime from 1995-2001 and John Lott, David Mustard: This study involved county level crime statistics from all 3,054 counties in the U.S., from 1977 through 1992. During this time ten states adopted right-to-carry laws. It is estimated that if all states had adopted right-to-carry laws, in 1992 the US would have avoided 1,400 murders, 4,200 rapes, 12,000 robberies, 60,000 aggravated assaults – and saved over $5,000,000,000 in victim expenses.)

Emphasis mine.

So, I've presented my facts; where are yours?

Cheers! M2

[stuffy]

I would highly suggest you go back and read the Gun Facts document (http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.0/GunFacts5-0-press.pdf) I referenced earlier. Maybe that way you'll actually have some facts to study, instead of the anti-gun hyperbol you seem to readily accept!



Emphasis mine.

So, I've presented my facts; where are yours?

Cheers! M2

if you're addressing me i think you've misunderstood me to some extent.

firstly, i don't think i ever stated an "anti-gun" stance in this thread, where you got this from....not sure.

secondly, i have backed up what i said, perhaps i was overemphasizing by making a statement like "one of the highest crime rates in the u.s.", which is not untrue. overstated perhaps, but true.

thirdly, i was talking about median family incomes in which texas falls below the national average. this was to illustrate a connection between poverty and crime (this was in no way meant to suggest that everyone in texas is poor if that's how you took it). i could look up a bunch of studies to back this up but i really can't be bothered, the reality is that poorer regions tend to have a higher crime rate. i'll take this as a given, if you don't....oh well.
(gdp was your thing, not mine)

if a connection can be conclusively made concerning a drop in crime to gun carry laws, i would be surprised.
it's definitely going to take more than one study to convince me.
there seems to be a bunch of studies on both sides concerning liberal gun laws and there are so many other influencing factors on crime rates.

[MadMax]

You obviously aren't reading my posts. I have included numerous sources that show there is a link between allowing people to legally conceal carry and a drop in crime. The document I posted a link to referenced several studies so be prepared for a bit of a shock...there is a positive correlation between being able to arm yourself and crime! You can ignore the truth all you want (you have yet to back up any of your claims with research data); but I am letting the facts speak for themselves. It may be a waste of time in trying to get you to change your opinion, but I want to make sure the rest of the people reading this thread have the right data in which to make an informed opinion.

About all you have done is insulted me, calling me "sensitive" and a having a "fragile ego" that needed massaging; but all I countered with was easily obtainable information to support my points. It did not require a thesis-level effort to compile (I am finishing my second graduate degree, so I am somewhat familiar with what it takes to complete a thesis); but simply a basic understanding of how to properly use the Internet and a little desire for the truth. Oh, and about 5-10 minutes of my time. If you can't be bothered to read any of the references I have included, then you will never change your mind and that my friend is the pure definition of ignorance; but hopefully others will take the time to do so and can be enlightened to the realities of the situation, and not the opinionated and unsubstantiated misinformation spewed in your posts!

Sorry, but you’ve brought a plastic spoon to a gunfight! Either arm yourself with some real facts and references, or call it a day and go home. This may just be an Internet forum, but that doesn’t mean it can’t contained informative discussion. If you are going to state an opinion, then caveat it as such, and quit acting as if it is a proven fact!

[SailDesign]

Stuffy,
Here is an article from the NCPA (NAtional Center for Policy Analysis) from 2001. A you may see from earlier posts, MadMax and I don't see eye to eye on everything, but this would seem to prove his point.

Link: http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm20.htm

************************************************** ****

Concealed Carry Laws Reduce Crime


Major crime fell dramatically in states which have legalized the carrying of concealed handguns, according to a comprehensive new study at the University of Chicago.

For the first time, researchers analyzed crime statistics for all 3,054 counties in the United Sates between 1977 and 1992, according to one of the authors of the unpublished study, Professor John Lott. After adjusting for a general fall in crime rates, the study found that:

In the 31 states that now have "concealed right to carry" laws, murders were down, on average, by 8.5 percent.

Rapes were down 5 percent and serious assaults by 7 percent.

In cities with populations of more than 250,000, murder rates dropped after the passage of such laws by an average of 13.5 percent.
According to the study, the fall in crime did not result from an increased use of guns, but from potential criminals avoiding confrontations. In fact, criminals apparently shifted to lower-risk offenses, since property crimes increased in those states. Other findings included:

The most dramatic falls in murder rates were in areas where the number of women carrying firearms was high.

The study found that for every woman who carries a concealed hand, the murder rate fell by three to four times more than it would have if one more man had carried a concealed gun.

If states with concealed handgun bans had allowed them in 1992, about 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes and more than 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided.
In addition, the researchers found no evidence of an increase in accidental killings or suicides in states with concealed carry laws.

Sources: Ian Katz, "'Gun Law' Cuts Crime Rate, US Study Finds," Guardian, August 3, 1996, and Dennis Cauchon, "Study: Weapons Laws Deter Crime: Fewer Rapes, Murders Found Where Concealed Guns Legal," USA Today, August 2, 1996.

[darthbauer]

Or how about we drop the talk of rather or not CCW helps prevent crime and just focus on the guns.

[SailDesign]

Or how about we drop the talk of rather or not CCW helps prevent crime and just focus on the guns.

Sounds good to me! :smile:

[stuffy]

oh yes, i did insult you madmax. directly i might add, but only after your passive-aggressive attempt at insulting me by way of my country.
it's not my fault if you originally took offense where there was none.

your position is well entrenched, mine is not. i'm pretty much on the fence here.
the original exception i took was simply a statement that said crime rates in texas were low because of liberal gun laws, well i simply stated that crime rates were not low in texas when compared to the rest of the country.

there are plenty of studies on both sides of gun argument, and i for one will take them all with a grain of salt because there are a load of societal factors which weigh in on crime and gun crime specifically. many studies are funded by lobbyists from both sides and you have to question their integrity (well i do anyway)
i never once said that i believe the prevalence of guns within a society equals more crime-if this were the case then switzerland would be a hell-hole.
this seems to be what you think my position is.
but i also don't fully believe that they are a deterent.

[stuffy]

Or how about we drop the talk of rather or not CCW helps prevent crime and just focus on the guns.

agreed. sorry for my part in the direction this thread took.

[floydisrock]

I wouldn't carry a 9 mm for self defense.
I'd much prefer my Taurus .41 magnum revolver,or my .45 xd.
The wife can shoot either just as easily as a 9mm.
http://i34.tinypic.com/vmw5rq.jpg

[SailDesign]

Here's my Winchester.

[Bob_VT]

Here's my Winchester.
That Winchester is a sniper rifle :biggrin: Dam that is a great gun. :thumbup:

[SailDesign]

That Winchester is a sniper rifle :biggrin: Dam that is a great gun. :thumbup:

Yup! The only gun I ever liked more was a VERY expensive Rem 40X in .22 that just couldn't miss the bull. Sadly, its owner liked it too.

[darthbauer]

I'll take some pics of my other guns when I get home tonight.

[nemelek]

What brand is it? And what is the serial # just use xxx for the last 3 digits and I will look it up.

It has the pre-war commercial grip plates and the trigger has been changed to the long trigger by the looks.

It is a COLT MODEL OF 1911 U.S. ARMY. SN**8474. It has United States Property printed on it.

[*MAD DOG*]

btw- "Gun nut" is seen as a derogatory term with gun owners.

No offense intended, what do people that love guns be preffered to be called? "Gun owners"?

[darthbauer]

I dont mind being called a gun nut. I call myself one all the time.

[darthbauer]

I've often told people that think im going to go postal and take people out not to worry cause it would be a real waste of ammo.

[Black Yaris]

I wouldn't carry a 9 mm for self defense.
I'd much prefer my Taurus .41 magnum revolver,or my .45 xd.
The wife can shoot either just as easily as a 9mm.
http://i34.tinypic.com/vmw5rq.jpg

I keep my 9 with hydroshocks more for the home, and the 38 revolver with +p hydroshocks for the road

[Nigal]

No offense intended, what do people that love guns be preffered to be called? "Gun owners"?

It's OK I wasn't pissed. Anything that doesn't suggest mental instability is fine.

[darthbauer]

Here is my 11-87 by Scattergun Technologies with some paint and a fresh coat of dip in MultiCam.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q12/jb99ctu/108.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q12/jb99ctu/109.jpg

[*MAD DOG*]

Anyone in CA want to meet up with me at Orange County Shooting Range while i'm over in Jan 09?

[Phaeton]

I've read through this entire post, and from an outsiders perspective it looks like we Americans are a bunch on gun nuts.
I live in an area that is extremely pro gun, lots of hunters, and target shooters. Most of the people I know have guns but don't carry a handgun. They own them but it's not a personal safety issue. We use handguns for target shooting and backup if your rifle doesn't get the job done. I'm not saying you guys from Texas are wrong. Just look at this thread from a different point of view for a minute.

[Nigal]

I've read through this entire post, and from an outsiders perspective it looks like we Americans are a bunch on gun nuts.
I live in an area that is extremely pro gun, lots of hunters, and target shooters. Most of the people I know have guns but don't carry a handgun. They own them but it's not a personal safety issue. We use handguns for target shooting and backup if your rifle doesn't get the job done. I'm not saying you guys from Texas are wrong. Just look at this thread from a different point of view for a minute.

Many times it depends on the outsider's perspective and attitude towards guns that can shade the subject. And I'm not saying that is what you are doing here but how someone views guns does matter. A gun is a tool, nothing more. some segments of society like to vilify guns as if they are inherently evil objects and by their very nature bad. It's like trying to vilify the because of the number of murders committed with them in Africa.

I never liked the "gun nut" label either because it suggests a certain degree of mental instability and that I am somehow dangerous. Or that it is somehow wrong to be interested in and talk about something I collect. It's OK to talk endlessly about my car but somehow talking about my guns makes me unstable or unhealthy. Am I a "car nut" because I own two cars? Am I an "audiophile nut" because I have over 500 CDs?

[SailDesign]

Many times it depends on the outsider's perspective and attitude towards guns that can shade the subject.

<major snippage>

Am I an "audiophile nut" because I have over 500 CDs?

Nigal, I think the "outsider's" view is always going to be clouded by the fact that guns were invented (if you can use that term here) with one purpose in mind - to kill things. Predominantly human things, although the hunting of animals for food or sport followed very closely after.
When folks hear of concealed carry of a deadly weapon, whether it is a pistol in the US, or a knife in the UK, they think "That person is up to no good".
It is a "natural" assumption since most people's lives do not involve travel in areas where you are likely to be shot on a daily basis. My life is like that, and I actively avoid areas where I would feel the need to "protect" myself.
But I do enjoy my target rifel and my little side-by-side-by 20. :smile:

[jclo3313]

Nigal, I think the "outsider's" view is always going to be clouded by the fact that guns were invented (if you can use that term here) with one purpose in mind - to kill things. Predominantly human things, although the hunting of animals for food or sport followed very closely after.
When folks hear of concealed carry of a deadly weapon, whether it is a pistol in the US, or a knife in the UK, they think "That person is up to no good".
It is a "natural" assumption since most people's lives do not involve travel in areas where you are likely to be shot on a daily basis. My life is like that, and I actively avoid areas where I would feel the need to "protect" myself.
But I do enjoy my target rifel and my little side-by-side-by 20. :smile:

Amen brother.:thumbsup:

[Malaya1221]

IMO, guns just make your balls feel a little bit bigger:flame:....like to use my feet, my wit and my fists for self defense....and for hunting, this :slice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMC8tVSJ4pw:tongue:

[GeneW]

Nigal, I think the "outsider's" view is always going to be clouded by the fact that guns were invented (if you can use that term here) with one purpose in mind - to kill things.

Not quite..... guns were created as a tool of warfare. War is organized violence and organized deterrence. As a consequence of the latter term War was also intended to prevent conflicts by bluff, intimidation or maneuver.

One of the reasons that the US and USSR never fought was because of an exquisite balance of terror - in a like sense an armed populace can deter crime and sometimes genocide.


When folks hear of concealed carry of a deadly weapon, whether it is a pistol in the US, or a knife in the UK, they think "That person is up to no good".

What bigoted rubbish!!

The tens of thousands of civilians legally licensed to carry firearms in the US are minding their own business, are not Vigilantes and do not have "big balls". The numbers of permit holders who have been prosecuted for murder and assault is almost statistically insignificant.

Such persons go about their lives and do not bother anyone. Just like the victims of racial bigotry, ethnic bigotry, religious bigotry and many other groups who have been targeted for injury by the willfully ignorant.

If you were to say something as derogatory about a member of a "protected class" you'd be held up for approbation here. Well, that's not the case but someone has to speak the truth. I think your remark is bigoted non-sense.

It is a "natural" assumption since most people's lives do not involve travel in areas where you are likely to be shot on a daily basis.

Ironically enough most of the people who do travel into such hostile areas are not armed. They're "bystanders" and "collateral damage".

In large US cities where firearms are tightly regulated for the law abiding the average citizen hides in their dwelling armed with caveman weapons. They live in terror of armed hoodlums who are free to prey upon them. The gangs, which can obtain guns from the people who sell them drugs, are at the top of the food chain.

In my neck of the woods armed citizens are not common, I'd guess perhaps one to five percent of us are armed at any given moment on the street. In our homes it's different, probably half of us own some sort of firearm.

We are heavily armed but we are not dropping like flies from murder. The last murder in my town occurred five years ago, maybe more. In contrast in New York City they can't go half a day without a needless, shameful death.


In some of the desolate areas where I go Law Enforcement is miles away. My cell phone doesn't always reach a tower. There is no 911 for me.

The Police out in the sticks are busy coping with all sorts of stupid crimes. They are not obligated to defend me, that's been hashed out by US Courts. The Police do not have defend you, cannot be sued for failing to defend you and are there to clean up the mess and gather evidence for prosecution.

In reality we are at the sufferance of those around us, unless we have the power to fight back.

How often do I carry? Damned rarely. I'm not allowed to bring a piece onto my employer's property. When I'm out in the sticks I might carry and might not carry.

The ironic part is that I'm a lot more meek and mild when I'm armed. I go to considerable effort to avoid trouble. When I'm unarmed I can be an asshole.

I actively avoid areas where I would feel the need to "protect" myself.

That's always sensible but not always practical. You, of course, have the choice to hope that someone saves you in time. Some of us are a bit less confident of "the System" and prefer to take our own chances.

It's not "rugged individualism", it's accepting the realities of life. We have an obligation to deter violence in others by presenting to them the possibility of violence in return. Their economic calculations must include this prospect and as a consequence such folks go to where their predation is not punished.

Gene

[GeneW]

I've read through this entire post, and from an outsiders perspective it looks like we Americans are a bunch on gun nuts.
I live in an area that is extremely pro gun, lots of hunters, and target shooters. Most of the people I know have guns but don't carry a handgun. They own them but it's not a personal safety issue. We use handguns for target shooting and backup if your rifle doesn't get the job done. I'm not saying you guys from Texas are wrong. Just look at this thread from a different point of view for a minute.


Some of us don't post pictures of our firearms and don't get all macho about it. To me a firearm is a tool, nothing more or less. What I have is legal for my locale, on the books (registered) and is my business. Nothing personal, but while I'll post a cute photo of me holding a relatives AK I don't post my own stuff. It's just not comely to me.

I honestly couldn't care less what the folks in Europa and Asia think of Americans and our "love of guns". We're a nation of people who ran away from tyrants and busybodies. We've genetically selected ourselves to be wanderers who don't like to be told what to do, or barring that chase opportunity and adventure. That means all of us of every stripe, because you don't come to America to have others tell you what to do, you come here to get away from something or get something.

I think that the rest of the world is worried about our nuclear weapons, our high tech killing machinery and our swaggering "we know what's best" attitude. We have more people overseas, in more bases, doing more stuff in more places, than any other nation. We have thirteen Air Craft carrier groups armed with nuclear weapons. We have ballistic missile submarines prowling the oceans. We have missiles in concrete silos. Enough warheads to wipe out the world many times over.

The recent Iraq adventure follows about fifty years of bombing, building bases, saber rattling, nuclear testing, collateral damage and some really awful mayhem. For example, how many Americans know that during the Korean conflict one in five Koreans died in the war, many from "strategic bombing" campaigns carried out by SAC? SAC (strategic air command) deliberately broke a series of dams in North Korea, washing their rice fields into the sea. Most of the people in the north were living in caves by 1953. SAC got so wild assed that they burned down Pusan, a town in southern Korea.

How many Americans know that for every dead US soldier in Viet Nam forty Vietnamese perished? That there are parts of Viet Nam decades later that are covered in unexploded munitions, stripped of vegetation by herbicides and that parts of Laos are uninhabitable because of the "secret war"?

I don't think the rest of the world gives a shit if half of us own a gun and keep it at home. They'll never know if we don't tell them

If we were more like we were 120 years ago, when the US Government couldn't call up enough Militiamen to invade other countries because they refused to go overseas, the rest of the world would probably consider us harmless eccentrics. Alas, we're an Empire now and it annoys the rest of the world.

Gene

[Nigal]

The insinuation that those who choose to carry a weapon are somehow scared is nothing new. I get that all the time. And of course the insinuation of penile compensation is never far behind that. I can't speak for everyone who carries but I practice avoidance much more than someone who doesn't carry. Why? Because I never want to have to shoot someone, criminal or not. It's also a common misnomer that because I carry a gun that I desire to use it on someone. The trauma, psychological damage and legal ramifications of taking another life is just this side of better than being the one dead.

People who say to me they've never felt the need the carry I always ask them if they ever saw a victim of crime on TV saying, "Oh I totally saw it coming. I wasn't surprised a bit when I was attacked.". It always happens when you least suspect it. "These things never happen to me."

[SailDesign]

What bigoted rubbish!!

Suggest you look in the mirror if you are looking for a bigot, Gene.
'Nuff said - I'm out of this thread. Have fun arguing, boys.

[jclo3313]

Well some of us are proud to be gun owners and posting pics of our firearms does not mean we are trying to be macho. I am just as proud of my firearm as I am of my car and I post pics of that as well. Please don't lump people that post pics of there firearms as people trying to being all macho about it, cause that is just simply not the case. Someone trying to be all macho is the guy who pulls his gun out in a situation that does not call for it, these people could also be considered idiots.

+1 on that. Like anything this thread has been turned into a lame political my junk is bigger than your junk thread.

[jclo3313]

It is always gonna happen on a forum, hell I am guilty of doing a few myself but that is the nature of the beast. Sometimes it is hard to keep opinions to ones self again I am guilty of this as well.:biggrin:

It's a right as an American to bear arms and speak freely about it. Perhaps there should be a thread dedicated to those who oppose and another for those that enjoy firearms. We are all here because we own a Toyota Yaris and enjoy talking about our little cars. We not here to break each other down. Everyone has a right to their own veiw, just accept that not everyone sees the world through your eyes.

[Nigal]

We also have the right to bare arms.

http://www.nsmb.com/assets/images/News/Ripper08/triplecrown08/Photo-5..jpg

Which of course brings up the point that "just because ya can, doesn't mean ya should".

[ChinoCharles]

It's a right as an American to bear arms and speak freely about it.


Actually, if you pull a gun in public you'll probably go to jail. :laugh:

[Bob_VT]

Well as of yesterday I now have one less in my collection and my brother has one to start his. He wanted to start target shooting so I sent him my Ruger MKII Gov't model modified with a red dot sight and fully accurized trigger, sear and all the fun parts.

I shot one last 10 shot 50' target and sent that along just so he would know it is capable.

[jclo3313]

Nice grouping.

[GeneW]

Well some of us are proud to be gun owners and posting pics of our firearms does not mean we are trying to be macho. I am just as proud of my firearm as I am of my car and I post pics of that as well. Please don't lump people that post pics of there firearms as people trying to being all macho about it, cause that is just simply not the case.

Maybe the word "indiscrete" is better and only from my own perspective. I'm sure I'm just seeing things through the lens of privacy. I'm an intensely private person.

You'll note in my photo of myself posing with an AK I took some pains to hide my identity and that of the owner. The pose was more a parody, hence no web gear or "macho" scowl.

Someone trying to be all macho is the guy who pulls his gun out in a situation that does not call for it, these people could also be considered idiots.

I think the word "incontinent" would also work, as in they can't control their impulses and have done the legal equivalent of shitting in their own pants. They need to be sent to their room with no supper and have their toys taken away for a while. The "childish" insinuation is there on purpose - if you cannot control your impulses you have no business having dangerous tools at your immediate disposal.

I've had too many instances in my life where I was shaking with rage, heavily armed and never once considered pulling the piece.

Still recall one instance where a Pittsburgh City Meter maid ticketed my car for being four inches into the next space that had an expired meter. The space where I "parked" had two hours on it. She said "Take it up with the Magistrate, I ain't got time for this shit" and stomped off.

Only later did I realize I was that angry and with a shock realized that I had on my M1911 with two extra mags. She was armed too. Neither one of us drew or threatened one another. I paid the ticket, lesson learned.


Another time an acquaintance of a friend was introduced to me. He was told, "Gene is a Libertarian".

The friend said, "I ought to kill you for that. Libertarians are freaks".

I stood there and smiled. So did the rest of the group. Of course I was annoyed but he was coming across like an entitled jerk. I said, "That's your opinion" and let the subject drop.

Later his friends told him, "He was carrying a handgun when you said that to him".

The kid said, "Why didn't you warn me? He could have killed me!".

I was amazed at his reaction. Why on Earth would I murder someone for what they said to me?

On the other hand one day I was in downtown Pittsburgh and some guy got up in my face demanding "money". I was reaching for the piece when he went' "Whoa, it's cool, it's cool!". Just reacted out of habit - threat in my space, go for the piece.

I was so embarrassed at being caught flat footed that I gave him five dollars and walked away. He thought it was funny. I was mortified. Today I'm glad that I did not draw on him and waste him. Been a tragic mistake.

Gene

[jclo3313]

Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret.
Ambrose Bierce

[*MAD DOG*]

Look at the crap we have to go through to get a firearms license in Australia.

http://www.police.vic.gov.au/retrievemedia.asp?media_id=35349&status=active

15 pages of hoops to jump through and fill out. Is this the same as your country?

[*MAD DOG*]

Oh and keep in mind you cant get a concealed weapons permit here and if you want to have a gun you need to have a safe that weighs 150kg+ or it has to be bolted into your premisis and you cant have your gun loaded in your own home and your gun and ammo have to kept in two seperate safes in two seperate rooms.

GOD BLESS AMERICA and there right to bare arms!

[GeneW]

Suggest you look in the mirror if you are looking for a bigot, Gene.
'Nuff said - I'm out of this thread. Have fun arguing, boys.

Let's revisit the remark in question....


When folks hear of concealed carry of a deadly weapon, whether it is a pistol in the US, or a knife in the UK, they think "That person is up to no good".

Okay, let's reframe your remark, changing only the subject of the sentence and possible incidental scenery.

When folks see of a young minority male running down the street, whether
he's in the US or in the UK, they tend to think "That person is up to no good".

When folks hear of a group of white males with shaved heads, whether they're in the US or the UK, they tend to think "Those persons are up to no good".

How does your remark look in another venue? Sounds pretty bigoted to me.


I work with dozens of men and women who carry concealed knives at work. About half of the people work I work to whom I speak to have concealed carry permits. Do I work in a den of iniquity? I think not.

Hence I call your remark 'Bigoted Rubbish".

Sorry to offend you, but I think that prejudice deserves to met "head on".

Gene

[GeneW]

Oh and keep in mind you cant get a concealed weapons permit here and if you want to have a gun you need to have a safe that weighs 150kg+ or it has to be bolted into your premisis and you cant have your gun loaded in your own home and your gun and ammo have to kept in two seperate safes in two seperate rooms.

Which essentially means that your firearms not to be used for personal defense.... and you own them at the sufferance of the State. Any time some dumbass in Sidney can order them hauled in, like they did the Ugly Guns after what happened in Tasmania (and that guy would not have been allowed to own firearms in the US.... ). You are one mass shooting away, one act of an hysterical Assembly or Parliament, away from having your stuff confiscated.

The basis of our Republic was that the Government took its powers from the consent of the governed. You cannot give consent if you do not have the power to take that consent back. Not any one of us but most of us....

This is a radical idea. Possibly even terroristic in this day and age.

Gene

[MadMax]

It's a sickness...

Hello, my name is Mad Max, and I am a 1911-oholic!

Went to the big monthly gun show today, wasn't expecting much as Saturdays are when the hords hit and all the good deals get lapped up. But, was out wheeling with the Jeep club yesterday, so we couldn't make it until today. Got there early, and the place was vacant; about one-third of the vendors weren't there at opening. I guess the good people were at church! Still, walked around just to see what was there. Most assault rifles were overpriced, the Yugo underfold I bought a year ago is now 50% more. Even crappy Romanian WASR-10s, which were running $300-350 a few months ago were close to $700! And people were snagging them left and right. It was pathetic. The dealers are capitalizing on Obama fears, and I lost count of the number of times I heard them pitching how much prices were gonna go up in January. It's BS profiteering, and I am not falling for it.

But, I was contemplating another Springfield 1911, this time a Mil-Spec in stainless steel, to round out my collection. I have a black stainless Loaded Target, a Lightweight Operator in Armory Kote, a Parkerized GI, and felt a stainless would go well with that crowd. Unfortunately, all I could find was another Loaded with combat sights (but not night sights). It was sweet looking, so I grabbed it...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/IMG_2407.jpg

And here are the "gang of four"...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c209/M2Repsol/IMG_2402.jpg

Sorry for the crap pictures but they were quickly taken before the wife dragged us all out grocery shopping. I haven't even broken it down and cleaned out the excess oil; but I hope I can get out to the range this week and shoot 'em all.

A word of caution, having open spaces in your gun safe will drive you to purchases like this. That, and a wife that gives you the 'cleared hot' everytime you ask about buying a new gun (God bless her!). But that's it for a while, prices are too crazy and I think I am going to focus on storing up some ammo just in case there are more taxes imposed on it. However, I did see a nice Webley .455 chambered in .45 Colt that was only $500...:headbang:

Cheers! M2

[jclo3313]

Some nice weapons.

[Black Yaris]

Actually, if you pull a gun in public you'll probably go to jail. :laugh:

Actually here in Ohio, any Ohio resident is permitted to have a holstered sidearm if in plain site
you only need a CCW to conceal your weapon

[jclo3313]

Same in Georgia.

[JBIZZ]

well I guess that's what your Constitution is all about... freedoms, but with freedoms come obligations and consequences. And don't get me wrong I'm not judging anyone who carries a weapon , I'm just trying to understand your position and also why the US more dangerous than let's say Canada (we're probably just too cold to care lol).

Believe it or not, statistics show that crime increases in hotter weather.

[Bob_VT]

Why A Gun Is Better Than A Girlfriend

1. You can trade in your old 44 for a new 22.
2. You can have one gun at home and another when you're on the road.
3. If you admire a friend's gun and tell him so, he'll probably let you try it out.
4. One gun doesn't mind if you keep another gun for a backup.
5. Your gun stays with you even when you run out of ammo.
6. Guns don't take up much closet space.
7. Guns function normally every day of the month.
8. Your gun will never ask, "Do these new grips make me look fat?"
9. A gun doesn't mind when you go to sleep after using it.
10. AND, you can buy a silencer for a gun!

[ChinoCharles]

My buddy just picked up a .308 CV sniper rifle w/ a $600 scope. God help the watermelons we'll be buying this summer.

[Bob_VT]

My buddy just picked up a .308 CV sniper rifle w/ a $600 scope. God help the watermelons we'll be buying this summer.

Empty milk jugs filled with food coloring and water are more dramatic. For the .22 and bb guns use ritz crackers and the birds clean up the mess!

[*MAD DOG*]

Hey Everyone,

I'm off to Hawaii in 2 days time. I'm going to go to a shooting range as our laws here in Australia only let us have revolvers, single shot rifles and shotguns.

I've fired plenty of pistols in my trips to CA. Glocks, Sig Sauer, H&K, Beuretta, Magnum, Remington to name a few. I really want to fire an AK47 and M16 and the like.

Lucky for me Hawaiian laws will let me do that. I just want some advice.

Do you think I should go for the:
High Power Course or the VIP Course?
http://www.hawaiigunclub.com/en/rates.html

Thanks for your thoughts.

Oh and i'm aware that i'd need to buy more ammo than they provide with those packages. Also if anyone knows or can recommend a good range on Waikiki please let me know, otherwise i'll be going to the range in the link.

Cheers.