Help me see 55 mpg!

[Loren]

I'm doing an "economy run" this weekend. About 200 miles of gas-wasting fun on mostly rural roads in Central Florida.

I'm almost positive I can achieve 55 mpg. I've seen 50 mpg (49.9, actually) already. I do all of the basic "passive" hypermiling tricks, lots of DFCO coasting, anticipating traffic, smooth and gentle acceleration, maintaining momentum as much as possible, a little pulse & glide.

I do have to keep an average speed of 45 mph on this trek (them's the rules of this economy run), which means speeds of up to 55-60 wherever and whenever I can to balance out the areas with lower speed limits. That's going to make it a challenge, but it also makes it a much more realistic test.

The car already has the rear seat removed and a lightweight crankshaft pulley installed. Wheels are fairly light, but tires are very wide. Nothing I can do about that besides air them up more than usual, which I will do.

I'll run the whole trip without the AC, that should gain me 2-3 mpg.

I don't normally cut the ignition at stop lights, but I will for this trip. That's probably worth another 1/2 mpg or so, maybe more.

I was considering taping over the upper grill, half of the lower grill, the foglight holes (I have them punched out for brake ducting for track use) and taping the hood seams all for better aerodynamics. Worth doing?

I've heard higher octane can improve mpg a little. I'll be at about 1/2 tank before Sunday, so I'll have half a tank of 87. I guess it wouldn't hurt to fill up for the run using 91 or 93 octane. Will probably average to about 89 octane.

Any other ideas on how to get that last little bit of MPG without getting too crazy?

[Appalachian Trail 2007]

fold in your passenger mirror, and remove your antenna

[Loren]

I can do that. I'm used to driving my Triumph around with no right-side mirror, no biggie.

[Bob_VT]

Loren good to see you back. The best tip I can give is to read up on all of Waynes Geddes' tips and see what he has done. All the hyper-miler tips. Good luck!

[Appalachian Trail 2007]

a few other things that take more work are

A belly pan, the turbulence under the car can result in a large part of your drag so it can improve your mpg by 1-3mpg

wheel covers, pizza trays work and they'll reduce the vortex created by your tires.

More weight reduction, passenger seat (you can put it back after the run)

I'm sure you've already read about all the driving techniques so I won't go there.

Those are all my ideas, if I think of any others I'll be sure to let you know

[WeeYari]

If your still running stock air intake, remove the upper filter and run with just the drop-in.

[Tamago]

ride a bike... unlimited MPG

[JnC]

Some of this will sound extreme, but it sounds like you're willing to do some prep work to win.

• Since it's just 200 miles, remove your spare tire, jack, etc. if you haven't done so already. Bring a AAA card and a cell phone. ;)
• Get a scangauge to monitor your mpgs.
• Put your battery on a tender overnight to assure a full charge and minimize alternator load during the start of the run.
• And speaking of alternator load, don't play your stereo or use any 12V electronics getting to and during the mpg run.
• The tape and pizza tray advice is good. If you can't make a belly pan in time, try to fit a front skirt out of thin plastic around the front and go as low as possible without scraping. Not sure of where to quickly source the plastic... maybe a hobby store. You can probably secure it to the grill holes with some zip ties.
• Get a fresh change of oil the night before the event. Make sure your air filter is clean (vacuum it out if you can't source one in time)
• I would not use higher octane gas as it's harder to burn. Burn off any old gas. Fill up with fresh gas the day of the event. Try to only put in enough for the event, plus 1 to 2 gallons extra. Don't top off the tank as each extra gallon of gas you have to haul is heavy.
• Water is heavy too: completely drain your windshield wiper reservoir. Siphon it out instead of spray just to avoid undue wear on the pump and load on the battery.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes

[Tamago]

^^^^^ spend $40 to save $10 i think is the idea ? ^^^^^^

lmfao

[JnC]

Heh, disregard the more expensive bits if this isn't a contest.

[Loren]

It's a contest, but a casual one. I'll be surprised if we get 5 cars. But, that's okay. I set it up primarily as an excuse to go out and do it myself!

Lots of good ideas. I probably won't do most of them. I'm really just looking for simple stuff that I can do that morning or maybe the day before.

I already have a ScanGauge. That's how I've been able to achieve 50 mpg already.

Not going to change my 3-month old 5w20 synthetic oil just for this, I don't think it would make a difference, anyway. Not taking the time to chase a pound or two by draining excess fluids. Not worried about load on the battery. Can't take out the passenger seat because I'll be carrying a navigator.

Riding a freakin' bike is not an option, thanks. :rolleyes:

The benefit of higher octane fuel as I understand it is that it allows the engine to run more spark advance, which gives more power at low rpm. Given that hypermiling techniques in the Yaris have the engine almost lugging on acceleration, that's probably a good thing. Harder to burn, it might be, but the Yaris has a VERY strong ignition system. I suspect that those who claim to get marginally better MPG with higher octane aren't lying to us. Probably not enough better to make up for the cost of the fuel... but, hey, I'm trying to set a record here!

What IS the record for US-Spec Yaris MPG? I think I've heard 52.

[Loren]

Oh, and the contest is judged based on fuel used. The only way we have to determine that is to start with a full tank and fill up at the end. So, starting with a half tank of fuel is not an option, unfortunately.

But, I drove a segment of this course Sunday with my wife and without trying too hard and with the AC on, and a 7/8 of a tank of gas, I managed 51.9 on the ScanGauge for 73 miles. That will correct to somewhere around 50 mpg actual. I'm confident that 55 can be done... or something VERY close to it.

[drummerboy2004]

Hey Loren,

I live in Florida too, and managed 58 for about 3/4 of my trip from Tampa to Tallahassee recently... then tally's crappy traffic set-up killed it. I know you can do it... not sure about 60 mph, unless you meet a nice enough downgrade. My average speed was a little under 45, and the whole trip was over 500 miles round. Good luck!!!!!

Matt

[drummerboy2004]

What IS the record for US-Spec Yaris MPG? I think I've heard 52.

I would imagine it would be higher if not talking about the entire tank...

I have seen right below 60 mpg on Linebaugh going from Tampa to Clearwater... only if you don't hit lights though.

Oh, and do you know what roads you are taking?... hopefully not 75 because they can be ruthless on that highway if you are not doing 65+

[voodoo22]

If you stay between 50-55mph, closer to 50 or even 45 like you said you can, you will will probably achieve 55 mpg without any other modifications. Go as slow as safety when on flat roads and coast down to as slow of a speed as you can safely when coasting down hills. Make sure your tire pressure is correct. I would put it to max sidewall, but I don't think you'll need to if you're not comfortable doing so. Start as gently as possible from a stop, but accelerate a little more aggressively once you on the hwy or have momentum.

I achieved 54.7 us MPG on my last tank on winter tires and very cold morning temperatures. The key here was I only had a couple small trips and the rest was all my commute and a short day trip. Conditions permit me to drive between 50-55mph or 80-90km/h, or I could do better. On a strictly FE run I think I could achieve around 56-57 in warmer weather with all season tires, but that's pure speculation.

Our car is an AT sedan and I think yours is MT hatch? I would think you should be able to get near 60 or maybe even more if you're doing strictly a FE run. If you did pulse and gliding; like some hardcore MT types do, I bet you could break 60 mpg. Go to cleanmpg and read how to beat the EPA. Everything you need to know is there.

I'd wish you luck, but all you need is discipline to achieve your goal:thumbsup:

[BailOut]

Loren,

My own testing with higher octane fuels showed a decent mileage hit while some aggressive drivers claim a slight mileage gain. The advancing of the timing allows for higher RPM which needlessly burns more fuel for someone that is not asking for more power.

Testers on CleanMPG found the same thing.

[CKaelin]

Sounds fun! I wish I was in Florida I'd join you!

[50MPGDream]

what is the penalty for being late/average speed under 45MPH?

setting up an X-gauge to tell you if you your average trip speed might be worthwile

[DanQ]

Increase your tire pressure. Put the narrow original wheels back on if you have wider aftermarket wheels now..

[Bob_VT]

Loren who will inspect the cars and how? What is to say someone does not have an extra gas supply on board?

[Loren]

I should have posted this in the first post, but didn't really think you guys would be so interested:
Event Info Thread (http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/green-motoring/524192-economy-run-sunday-november-16-sign-up.html) (link to route information and more details at the top of the 2nd page)

Thanks for the tip on octane, Brian. Makes sense. If you're driving "normally" or "somewhat agressively", you could see a gain in economy from higher octane. Slugging the car around in a hypermiling fashion, probably won't make much of a difference and those who have tried it say they see a decrease. No problem... I'll fill up with 87!

I do have my route planned, and it does not include any interstate travel at all. But, it DOES include a lot of back roads with 35 mph speed limits. Now, I'll probably drive an average 40 mph on those roads... but I still need speed to get my average up to 45. There's also some city driving and stop lights that will also bring the average speed down. So, when I'm on a highway where the speed limit is 55 or 60, I'm going to need to GO 55 or 60 to bring the speed back up. With my car, I've noticed that I can maintain (with the AC on) 50 mpg at up to about 55 mph. It starts nose-diving at 60. So, I'll have to walk the fine line there. It's not a concern... just part of the challenge. :)

The penalty for blowing the 45 mph limit... well, there is one. But, really, I don't want to blow it. I want this to be a fairly realistic test. On top of that, as the event organizer, I don't want to be the one to bend my own rules... I want to do things right. Sure, I could get 60 mpg or more with an average speed of 38 mph... but that's not a very realistic test!

Sounds like my goal of 55 mostly lies with me and my mad hypermiling skills. This is good. As long as the car can do it, I should be able to pull it off.

I'll keep you posted. And any of you Florida guys, feel free to join us!

[Loren]

Loren who will inspect the cars and how? What is to say someone does not have an extra gas supply on board?
We'll be putting a tamper seal on their gas cap. If anyone looks "iffy", we'll search the car for extra fuel tanks... but I don't think anyone is taking it that seriously. (in fact, most of my locals are crapping out on me, this is going to be a very low-turnout)

We've already specifically allowed any and all modifications other than secondary fuel tanks. Any brilliant idea you have to improve your fuel economy... from lightening to aero to engine swaps... go for it! Any such mods will prove their worth in this kind of test, and that's a good thing. If lightening works (it does), then we all learn yet again that lightness is better for economy. If improved aerodynamics works (it does), we'll prove that, too. If swapping a VW TDI engine into a Suburban works... well... I wouldn't stand in the way of such an experiement!

But, we do want to be able to somewhat accurately guage the amount of fuel used.

[contraband831]

GOOD LUCK Loren I hope you achieve your goal, I have no tips for you though.

[JnC]

FWIW, the 1.4 liter D4D (diesel) Yaris recently set an mpg record during a 400 mile marathon in the UK. The winning number was about 84 mpg UK, which works out to be about 70.5 mpg US.

Diesels are roughly 30% more efficient than a gasoline vehicle. If you take the published extra-urban ratios of a Yaris 1.3 gasser vs. a 1.4 D4D... it's about 32%. Granted the 1.5L US engine is a bit thirstier than the 1.3. But let's just say that you could get the same mpg as the 1.3 (which is a tall order).

Compared to the world record of 70.5 mpg in a diesel, if you apply the efficiency ratios above, 53.2 mpgs would be the corresponding 1.3L result.

Your challenge is to exceed world record mpg, driving at 15 mph faster, in an engine that is 0.2L bigger than the UK engine I used for the above calculations. A tall order indeed, but at least you have half the distance.

Another difficulty will be the precision required to determine the amount of fuel consumed for the winner. You're only going 200 miles. Let's say you get 50 mpg (to make the math easy). That's 4 gallons. A small amount of error when refueling can have a huge impact on the result. To be consistent, you may need to have everyone use the same pump nozzle for the final fueling, as every pump switches off a little differently from vapor pressure. Due to carbon canisters in modern cars, i wouldn't advocate topping off.

Best of luck

[Loren]

Yeah, the 1.4 diesel Yaris is a brilliant car. I'd have bought one if it were available here.

Fill-ups will all be done at the same pump for consistency. We won't have any control over how much fuel people start with, though. We're not starting AT the gas station, but within 1/4 mile of one. So, people could slightly over-fill and gain a little bit. I'm not going to because I do want a true result.

In the end, I'm very confident that I'll see 55 mpg based on the way we're scoring the run... but that's not actual mpg. The run is scored based on the Google Maps distance, and my route will be about 15 miles shorter... that works in my favor. I'll be sure to calculate my actual mpg, too, though.

Things I have over the stock Yaris 1.3: lightweight crankshaft pulley and less weight due to no back seat and lighter wheels. I'll also be strategically adding tape, folding in the side mirror, stuff like that.

I'm not sure how much of a difference in economy there would be in a hypermiling situation between the 1.3 and 1.5, anyway. I mean, the 1.8 Corolla (07-08 version) is EPA rated 28/37 compared to the 1.5 Yaris (which is a lighter car) at 29/36. The larger displacement just makes acceleration easier... if you keep your foot out of it, it's not going to make a big difference in fuel economy.

[JnC]

Gorgeous Spitfire btw.

I've only gotten serious about hypermiling once (too much work to do to the level I experimented with). No prep other than 40 psi in my tires in my VW TDI. It was an 80+ mile trip, catching a draft behind a semi and trying a throttle/gearing modulation theory I concocted... which nearly wore me and the clutch out. All while staying within +/- 5 mph of the speed limit on an interstate hwy (55 to 65 posted). I didn't verify fillup, and figure the trip computer is at least 5% optimistic.

Heh, I think the light tank helped a little. ;)

[Nelson]

The biggest mileage improvement I see is a very warmed up car. Not just water temp to 184 but water temp to 184 and another 10 to 15 minutes of driving beyond that.

Good luck.

[yarswiss]

Even though you will be driving in Fl, which is flat as sin, I think you should use FAS (Forced Auto Stop...check it out at cleanmpg.com) to your extreme advantage if you want to crack those numbers.

Both Voodoo and I have cracked the 53mpg barrier in the auto, so hitting 55 shouldn't be a problem with a MT due to it's distinct advantage of being able to short-shift and FAS safely.

I drive a painfully hilly commute, but here are some tips I find have worked for getting the best MPG. Some may not work as well as I think since my car is an auto. The best Trip MPG I ever achieved on my regular commute was 60mpg, and I know that Wayne Gerdes himself was able to get 66mpg in an auto as well, so 55 is definitely doable.

-Hold TPS around 20-22, never exceeding this unless you need to accelerate after an FAS or before a hill. Even on a very slight incline, holding at 22 may cause you car to slowly lose speed, at around .5mph/sec, but this is where Pulse and Glide comes in. Note: this TPS is what the scangauge has as a default. If you change the default settings for Fuel Cut-Off, they may be different.

-If you are on a slight downhill with no wind, you could easily hold at 20-21 TPS and get amazing mileage (around 60-85 iMPG).

-When approaching and climbing hill, never exceed 26-27TPS. For some reason, I find that even on the steepest of hills, between 28-31 TPS actually does nothing at all, except dump more gas into the engine without a significant or noticable increase in power. If you are approaching a very long uphill, accelerate at this throttle position and hold it until you crest.

-Go into neutral on short downhills that are too small to use FAS.

-Pump up those tires! I have had them at sidewall max (44 psi) for a while now, and haven't noticed any adverse effects except maybe a slightly stiffer ride, which I actually like. I believe Brian has them up to 60psi, but you do what you feel safe with.

That's my 2c. Good luck on your challenge!

[Loren]

I was about to dismiss FAS as something I didn't really need to do since I use DFCO so much. But, then I thought about it. I can coast a lot further in neutral than I can with the drag of the engine in gear. That adds up to free miles. DFCO is a heckuva a lot easier for daily driving... but for this trip, I can see using FAS when appropriate. And I agree, it should make a big difference, even here in the flatlands.

Good call, Yarswiss.

[JnC]

I can coast a lot further in neutral than I can with the drag of the engine in gear. That adds up to free miles.

I've observed the same thing.

[voodoo22]

catching a draft behind a semi

I wouldn't recommend drafting under any circumstance:thumbdown:

[JnC]

I wouldn't recommend drafting under any circumstance

I don't advocate it. It was a singleton. And probably not all that effective as I still kept a 1 sec cushion.

[Loren]

Oh, drafting is very effective... and also very stupid. A friend of mine did it in my car... not 1 second back, but about 10-20 feet back. MPG went from 48ish at 70 to 53. BUT... we were drafting behind a friend towing our race car and he knew we were back there. I still wasn't comfortable with it, but it does work. I'd never do it. I like my space.

[50MPGDream]

The penalty for blowing the 45 mph limit... well, there is one. But, really, I don't want to blow it. I want this to be a fairly realistic test. On top of that, as the event organizer, I don't want to be the one to bend my own rules... I want to do things right. Sure, I could get 60 mpg or more with an average speed of 38 mph... but that's not a very realistic test!I'm sorry, my post wasn't clear. I figured you didn't want to be late (most FE challenges have a max time allowed)

you can set up an Xguage to tell you the average speed of your trip. If the average speed drops below 45 you will know you are going to be late and need to give it some gas. this will be much easier, and probably more accurate than doing the math (how far you are and how long it has taken you) in your head.

and another thought, is your route construction free?

[Loren]

I planned on using a GPS to monitor average speed and try to keep it around 48.

Construction... good question. Without pre-running the whole route the day before, it's hard to say. The segment that I did drive was construction-free.

[50MPGDream]

Florida state highway construction projects - http://www.dot.state.fl.us/publicinformationoffice/moreDOT/majorprojects.shtm

[Rafreaki]

Does the lack of wheel covers noticeably reduce mpg? Any idea how much? This is making me second guess the eBaying of mine...

[Bob_VT]

We'll be putting a tamper seal on their gas cap. If anyone looks "iffy", we'll search the car for extra fuel tanks... but I don't think anyone is taking it that seriously. (in fact, most of my locals are crapping out on me, this is going to be a very low-turnout)

We've already specifically allowed any and all modifications other than secondary fuel tanks. Any brilliant idea you have to improve your fuel economy... from lightening to aero to engine swaps... go for it! Any such mods will prove their worth in this kind of test, and that's a good thing. If lightening works (it does), then we all learn yet again that lightness is better for economy. If improved aerodynamics works (it does), we'll prove that, too. If swapping a VW TDI engine into a Suburban works... well... I wouldn't stand in the way of such an experiement!

But, we do want to be able to somewhat accurately guage the amount of fuel used.

Great Idea!

Gorgeous Spitfire btw.

I've only gotten serious about hypermiling once (too much work to do to the level I experimented with). No prep other than 40 psi in my tires in my VW TDI. It was an 80+ mile trip, catching a draft behind a semi and trying a throttle/gearing modulation theory I concocted... which nearly wore me and the clutch out. All while staying within +/- 5 mph of the speed limit on an interstate hwy (55 to 65 posted). I didn't verify fillup, and figure the trip computer is at least 5% optimistic.

Heh, I think the light tank helped a little. ;)

I had a 2000 TDI Jetta 5 spd that I chipped with the wettenauer chip. I was getting 55 mpg when I paid attention. Overall maintenance costs killed me with that car and the yaris LB has more rear seat room.

[Appalachian Trail 2007]

hey loren, 500snakz says its not possible to even get 48mpg so I'd give up on the 55 dream... :barf:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10642

[Bob_VT]

hey loren, 500snakz says its not possible to even get 48mpg so I'd give up on the 55 dream... :barf:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10642

Uhhhhhh maybe Bailout will post a link to his gas log...... I think you will be surprised. 55 is high but 50 has been seen by many.

[drummerboy2004]

hey loren, 500snakz says its not possible to even get 48mpg so I'd give up on the 55 dream... :barf:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10642

55 is easy in the MT:cool:... I have an AT, and have pulled over 50 for a trip longer than 200 miles. Oh, and 48... that should be about city mileage in the MT if you drive it well enough. You can do it!

Matt

[Bob_VT]

here is Bailout's gas log.....
http://www.gassavers.org/garage/viewgaslog/2128

[Appalachian Trail 2007]

Uhhhhhh maybe Bailout will post a link to his gas log...... I think you will be surprised. 55 is high but 50 has been seen by many.

oh I know, it's 500snakz that doesn't believe

[drummerboy2004]

here is Bailout's gas log.....
http://www.gassavers.org/garage/viewgaslog/2128

You're right...

If you "FAS it up", you can easily exceed that as well...

Matt

[drummerboy2004]

oh I know, it's 500snakz that doesn't believe

Well then... I think we need to put Snakz on a plane! jk

Matt

[Appalachian Trail 2007]

Well then... I think we need to put Snakz on a plane! jk

Matt


(Snakes on a plane...)

hahahaha yeah I got it the first time

[Loren]

I'm tired of these mother uckin' snakes on this mother uckin' plane!
too many mother uckers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqxnm6t3QMw)

Alright, let's not drag Mr. 500snakes through the mud here. He'll either learn or he won't, but he has nothing to do with this thread... let's be nice to the newbs.

Quick question for those who use FAS and have a Scangauge:

I gather that I need to set my mode to "Hybrid" to get the Scangauge to work properly. If I do that, will the Scangauge then give me accurate readings even through multiple FAS sessions? (no time to really test the theory before Sunday) Or will the ScanGauge ignore some or all of the FAS session and only report the MPG that occurred while the ignition is on?

[drummerboy2004]

I'm tired of these mother uckin' snakes on this mother uckin' plane!
too many mother uckers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqxnm6t3QMw)

Alright, let's not drag Mr. 500snakes through the mud here. He'll either learn or he won't, but he has nothing to do with this thread... let's be nice to the newbs.

Quick question for those who use FAS and have a Scangauge:

I gather that I need to set my mode to "Hybrid" to get the Scangauge to work properly. If I do that, will the Scangauge then give me accurate readings even through multiple FAS sessions? (no time to really test the theory before Sunday) Or will the ScanGauge ignore some or all of the FAS session and only report the MPG that occurred while the ignition is on?

I know I shouldn't, but I have FASed in my car...
It typically stays on while you are turning off the car, and records all but whatever happens while the car is off...
This being said, it fails to record for usually <1sec...
If you have it set to hybrid, you will have no problem... My numbers usually stay accurate with FAS usage.

ADDED: Oh, and during the FAS your MPG will read over 1000, but you are actually using 0 gas, so this may lead to inaccuracies over the course of a long trip. I only use it going to long red lights.

Matt

[voodoo22]

I know I shouldn't, but I have FASed in my car...
Matt

The manual states it's safe to flat tow the Yaris auto for short trips at low speeds on flat surfaces, so you should be ok FASing to red lights.

I've read logs where people who are really good at FASing manuals and P&G increase their mpgs by 20%.:w00t:

[Woody_Woodchuck]

My SG2 appears to record accurately while FASing, I set it to hybrid mode. Turn the key off, until the dome light starts to turn on (about a second or so). I do lose that second of SG recording while the key is actually in the off position but not the entire trip. The SG will continue updating from the numbers you had before keying off then back on. I use it as an estimation tool, not taking the numbers as gospel anyway so that second or so does not matter to me. A quick, light clutch while in 5th (or 4th if speed is low) starts the engine.

I only just started using this technique, so not an old pro at it, but found this works for me.

EDIT: the iMPG readings while in FAS do vary for me not do the 99999 thing. Depending on speed they will vary from 1,000 to 3,000 iMPG.

[drummerboy2004]

The manual states it's safe to flat tow the Yaris auto for short trips at low speeds on flat surfaces, so you should be ok FASing to red lights.

I've read logs where people who are really good at FASing manuals and P&G increase their mpgs by 20%.:w00t:

Thanks... (I didn't stop doing it:thumbsup:)... I just remembered not to do it for a very long time. I noticed I was trying to go further and further on the FAS (still under 30 though). I like it as well because your car is then off for the light, and as long as you know the lights, you can put it back on, and be ready to roll. Thanks again...

Matt

[enkid]

You're going to find it difficult - hypermiling and keeping your overall average speed up to 45 are conflicting goals. You'll probably have to drive above the speed limit for some segments to make up for lost time and stops.

[Loren]

You're going to find it difficult - hypermiling and keeping your overall average speed up to 45 are conflicting goals. You'll probably have to drive above the speed limit for some segments to make up for lost time and stops.

Yep, it will be a challenge. That's why I set it up the way I did. Where's the fun in doing something that's easy?

The plan is to P&G up to about 5 over and 10 under the speed limit in most places. (traffic permitting) The highest speed limit is 60, about half of the route is 55. The rest is slower, but will balance out. I've already segmented out the route and calculated times based on expected speeds for each segment. It works... now, if I can just stick to the plan!

[drummerboy2004]

I will try and make it to a future one of these...

I have school-related things the rest of the semester :frown:

Oh, and word of advice, if you didn't think to... bring your speed average up by hauling ass (hypermiler haul 60) when you hit the downgrades, that way you do not find yourself having to do this on a lot of the flats. Then you could ride your speed down in a great-length FAS.

Hope this wasn't common sense...

Matt

[Loren]

Hope this wasn't common sense...
Well, it's common sense to an experienced hypermiler. ;)

Tomorrow's the big day. Bought a roll of self-adhesive aerodynamic improver (clear packing tape) yesterday. I'll stick some of that on the car today and air up the tires. Should be good to go.

[JnC]

Bought a roll of self-adhesive aerodynamic improver (clear packing tape) yesterday. I'll stick some of that on the car today ...

I'd be scared of packing tape adhesive pulling off the paint when you remove it. Would suggest masking tape instead.

Best of luck!

[metalshark]

First go get-ya some of them Imperial gallons. The canucks have an edge there....but seriously my last trip with Amsoil 5w-20 got 39.3 MPG with cruise control set at 50% 65 MPH and 50% 75 MPH. In town before the switch to light oil my best commuting was 43 MPG for three tanks straight. I still have to "have discipline" to test for mileage after the change.

[Loren]

My groove. I wasn't on it.

Worse yet, my ScanGauge was lying to me. Was in a rush this morning and didn't check MPG when I filled up or I might have caught that it was off and reset it. So, I wasn't trying overly hard today (just wasn't in the mood), just did my usual DFCO coasting and gentle acceleration, similar to what I did to net 49.9 mpg before, but with about 10psi more air pressure in the tires, lower grille and foglight holes taped, right-side mirror folded and antenna removed. I did a little bit of FAS, and I did kill the engine at stop lights... figured that would have been good for a little, but it just wasn't happening.

The ScanGauge was telling me that I was getting close to 56 mpg. It peaked at 56.2 at one point, but couldn't hold it. Ended up with a 54.8 average on the first leg, 55.8 on the second leg, and 55.7 on the third leg. I thought I was doing okay... well enough to at least claim 1.5x EPA (54 mpg). Boy was I disappointed when I filled up, did the math and saw 49.92 mpg!

But, my buddy (the only other person who showed up!) had a better day in his Sentra. He's got the bad boy Sentra SE-R Spec V, 2.5 with a 6-speed. He wasn't planning to compete, but we talked last night and after he complained of never getting more than about 32 mpg out of the car, I assured him that based on the EPA figures, I was sure he could get at least 38 mpg on this trip. We talked about hypermiling techniques, and he tried a few on his drive home and found that they do indeed work... very well. He was inspired, went to bed thinking about it, and was STOKED in the morning, ready to run!

He attacked the event in his typical style. He's "all or nothing" when it comes to competition. So, he removed his back seat and some other weight (he's got the stuff unbolted already for racing), taped his grille, and proceeded to hypermile the hell out of the Sentra! He was trying WAY harder than I was, and he deserved the "win" in today's event. He returned 41.7 mpg out of a car rated at 27 mpg highway. Over 1.5x the EPA. Impressive, indeed.

He did it mostly by using FAS and extreme pulse and glide. His car has enough torque to accelerate pretty easily from 30 mph in 6th gear. So, what he did after some experimenting was accelerate up to 60-70 mph (depending on the road), kill the ignition and neutral-coast down to 30 mph (traffic permitting). He put my 10-15 mph pulse & glides to shame!

So, I guess I need to master FAS before I try another economy run.

Coolest thing today... I pretty much drove for 6 hours straight with a couple little breaks and only used 3.6 gallons of gas that I paid $2.01/gallon for. Where else can you get 6 hours of entertainment for under $10?

[Sodium Duck]

See? =] wacka wacka wacka!

[Loren]

:clap:

/thread

[Bob_VT]

Great try Loren. It appears as if we have a goal.

[voodoo22]

I've noticed that going as feather light on the gas pedal under most circumstances makes a bigger difference than you might think. I've seen video of the top Prius drivers in the world using only their big toe on the gas pedal while wearing socks or going barefoot so they can really feel the throttle. I still wear shoes while driving, but with my driving style if I am not thinking about backing off the throttle and using as little pressure to maintain speed in most situations, I will lose 2-4 mpgs. I already have a light foot, so I could see this even making more of a difference for people with a lead foot.

It's all conjecture, but I think going feather light allows you to know when you can coast or going into DFCO quicker and also allows "hangtime" to kick in as much as possible.

I don't know your driving style Loren, but I think you should try focusing on this as well if you think you could go lighter on the throttle.

[Loren]

It's funny... when I autocross, I have a big bag of excuses that I'll pull out as necessary. But, I don't feel the need to make excuses here. I guess it's because this is so much more "scientific" than autocross. It is what it is.

That said, I will admit that I *did* lean on the throttle too much during a good portion of this run, and wasn't as focused on it as I should have been. But, I have an excuse! Mainly, it comes down to traffic on about half the route (the faster parts, where economy was already taking a hit). I was leading, Jeff was behind me in his Sentra, and he usually kept a good distance, but as mentioned, he was P&G in an extreme fashion. I tended to stay around 50-55, where he would pulse to 70 and charge up behind me, not starting his glide until he was a good 20 feet from my bumper. Not a problem, but it caused me to always have to check my mirror to see where he was when I wanted to start a glide.

Couple that with some impatient (yet dumb enough to NOT take advantage of many opportunities to pass) traffic behind Jeff that caused me to try very hard to keep my speed up to very near the speed limit... I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the outcome.

And I wouldn't have been, had that been what the ScanGauge was telling me.

Oh well. Next time we'll ditch "realism" (I really did want this route to go through some city traffic as well as rural 2-lane highway traffic) and go for TRULY rural roads, practice some serious P&G, and see what happens.

The good news is that my buddy Jeff is hooked, and he never backs away from competition. All I have to do is say "bitch, I want a rematch!" and I'll have a solid competitor ready to go play.

[enkid]

Actually, I think you got pretty close to the upper limit under those conditions.

If you did an average of 35MPH, you'd probably have gotten better than 55MPG.

I average about that speed on my commute. I was surprised it was that low after I got my Scangauge.. Intuitively I would have guessed it was 45MPH.

[Loren]

Our target was an average 45 mph on this run. The 180 miles was split into three sections, and we finished 3-7 minutes late on each of them. Overall, our average speed ended up being a little over 38 mph.

I think 49-50 is about the max for the techniques that I've mastered. To get more, I really need to practice longer pulse and glide and incorporating FAS to extend the glide.

I still think there's 55 mpg out there.

[50MPGDream]

The ScanGauge was telling me that I was getting close to 56 mpg. It peaked at 56.2 at one point, but couldn't hold it. Ended up with a 54.8 average on the first leg, 55.8 on the second leg, and 55.7 on the third leg. I thought I was doing okay... well enough to at least claim 1.5x EPA (54 mpg). Boy was I disappointed when I filled up, did the math and saw 49.92 mpg!
woah! did you get fuel at the same pump you went to last time you filled up? my SGII has never been that far off. what correction % are you at?

[Loren]

woah! did you get fuel at the same pump you went to last time you filled up? my SGII has never been that far off. what correction % are you at?
I did fill at the same pump. I've just finally wrapped my head around the correction thing, and I'm sure it was screwed up. I'm experimenting with a 6% correction factor right now.

My correction may be more than normal because I'm running tires that are about 1% shorter. I have to correct my calculated mileage for that, too.

I'm trying to get it to where the ScanGauge reads slightly LESS than actual MPG. I would prefer it to be off in that direction.

[Tonavi]

I don't normally cut the ignition at stop lights, but I will for this trip. That's probably worth another 1/2 mpg or so, maybe more.

I've heard higher octane can improve mpg a little. I'll be at about 1/2 tank before Sunday, so I'll have half a tank of 87. I guess it wouldn't hurt to fill up for the run using 91 or 93 octane. Will probably average to about 89 octane.

Any other ideas on how to get that last little bit of MPG without getting too crazy?

I used to stop the motor at long lights but noticed a decrease in mileage. The amount of gas the computer uses to restart the engine undoes any benefit. Also, the added wear and tear on your starter does no good. Unless the light is >10 minutes, there is no benefit to doing this.

Using 89 octane gas is what I have been doing ever since 600 miles, and I have went from getting 38 MPG to about 44 with the same driving style.

Good luck on your trip!!

[voodoo22]

I used to stop the motor at long lights but noticed a decrease in mileage. The amount of gas the computer uses to restart the engine undoes any benefit. Also, the added wear and tear on your starter does no good. Unless the light is >10 minutes, there is no benefit to doing this.

Using 89 octane gas is what I have been doing ever since 600 miles, and I have went from getting 38 MPG to about 44 with the same driving style.

Good luck on your trip!!

This simply isn't true according to everyone elses data. The general rule is if the stop is longer than 7 seconds on the Yaris (and most newer cars), the amount of fuel saved makes up for the extra wear on the starter and still saves you a few bucks. I don't have a scan gauge, but after I started shutting down at the few long lights I deal with, my MPG went up and so has everyone else; who's wrote about shutting down at longer lights; except for you.

[Tonavi]

It could be that I did it at almost every light (the lights here are long and go red even when nobody is coming) for about 2-8 minutes, depending on traffic. Maybe repeatedly using it causes a decrease? Either way, I started taking the highway more and letting it idle at the shorter lights or when I'm first in line. When it's cold out, mileage usually decreases 20-25%, but I have been able to minimize this to only 10% with this method.

[BailOut]

Hello Tonavi,

As voodoo explained all it takes to break even with the fuel usage and wear and tear of a warm start in most modern vehicles is 7 seconds of idling. This has been proven time and again, with every type of vehicle, fuel, drive line, transmission, etc. All variables have been tried and found true. Hybrid cars are designed to perform this function for you.

If you are seeing opposite results then either your MPG measurements are not accurate, your MPG measurements are not done consistently, you do no have enough data to get a clear picture (e.g temperatures, wind conditions, etc.), your personal perception is skewed for some reason or something is mechanically wrong with your vehicle.. I encourage you to begin keeping an MPG log and tracking some good data points while you experiment with the technique some more.

[voodoo22]

Brian is the man. I used his write ups to confirm and learn a lot when I started to take getting good FE more seriously. He knows his stuff and should be respected for not making unsubstantiated claims.

[Tonavi]

I will try it that way, keep a log, and keep all variables constant.

I was not making unsubstantiated claims, just sharing my experience. No disrespect to anybody.

[voodoo22]

I will try it that way, keep a log, and keep all variables constant.

I was not making unsubstantiated claims, just sharing my experience. No disrespect to anybody.

I didn't mean to suggest you were making unsubstantiated claims. Your observations could very well be fact for whatever reason.

I just like to give compliments where they are due and Brian deserves a hand for being responsible and helpful with his posts. Sometimes people get offended by his matter of fact statements, but his comments are based of the findings of hundreds of others and himself over long periods of time and I'm guessing it gets a little tiring for him to always have to explain his substantiated claims to people who often aren't searching before posting, or who are making generalizations which are not based on large bodies of data from many others.

[Tonavi]

Thank you.

I agree that people believe what they hear without evidence or explanation, and that it takes a lot of effort to set them straight. I'm with you on that one.

[stripey]

:w00t:Just read all this thread for the first time - compelling read and I look forward to the next hypermiling attempt.

[twowheels]

If your still running stock air intake, remove the upper filter and run with just the drop-in.

I know I'm responding to a very old post, but could you clarify what you were talking about here? I haven't really looked at how the intake is set up... are there two air filters?