Stock vs 123 Wheel HP (All-Motor) Dyno Graph

[richardholdener]

Here is a graph of the baseline runs with the stock yaris (the one we are using to design production intake with). The after graph is a result of a few mods including the new long-tube header, Dynatek intake, Xd TB and NST under drive pulleys. It looks like exceeding 120 wheel hp will definitely be possible with bolt on mods assuming they inlcude the long-tube header 9and mid pipe) and new intake manifold. This test was run with a version that is identical to the production piece so these gains will be possible. Possibly more power with light-weight oil, tuning from FIC (needs more ignition timing) and real CAI (we ran the stock filter lid turned upside down)-I forgot my TRD/AEM CAI back in Vegas for this test (in Palmdale). We might be able to get to 130 wheel hp in real street trim! BTW-Check out post on intake update.

[pinoypizzaboy]

where can i get richard holdner built stickers for my car?

[mikenacarato]

whats different about the xd TB than the yaris?

[richardholdener]

The Xd throttle body is larger than the Yaris but it plugs right in and runs perfectrly on the yaris. Just needs a minute or two to idel down the first time you start it-ECU is not use to having such large throttl eopenings at idle but once this self adjustment takes place right after initial start up-it works perfectly and was worth roughly 2 hp at this power level. Intake will come with flange to accept Xd TB and have adapter plate to neck down for yaris TB.

whats different about the xd TB than the yaris?

[mikenacarato]

awesome! your the man richard!

[ChinoCharles]

Richard, how are these N/A geared mods going to work with a forced induction setup? Will they still add power? I understand that they aren't designed for use with a turbocharger, but I am hoping that they will still add to the whole picture and not take away.

[richardholdener]

For a turbo application, the intake and NST pulleys will work well. Can't really do a long-tube header for turbo application-but it would definitely help if it could be fit-anything that helps NA power will help in forced induction. A rotrex blower set up could use all of the listed mods. Blitz blower could use long-tube header and pulleys (all could use a good CAI).

Richard, how are these N/A geared mods going to work with a forced induction setup? Will they still add power? I understand that they aren't designed for use with a turbocharger, but I am hoping that they will still add to the whole picture and not take away.

[pinoypizzaboy]

im a noob but 20+ whp is a big change for the yaris ecu wont this require some management of some sort? this is almost the same gains as the blitz:smile:

[jkuchta]

So tell me about this long tube header. When will it be available, and will it mount to the stock midpipe?






EDIT: I just saw the other thread!

[eTiMaGo]

niiiiiiice, now that is a meaty increase across the range :biggrin: :clap:

[Dylan Yap]

do you have a AF chart too? dynojet can print AF too

[CASTREX]

Hey, for anyone wondering how the Yaris long tube header looks....

Here you go! Richard just sent me the picture... :thumbup:


:drool:

[cali yaris]

:eek: :drool:

[kou]

:eyebulge::drool::bow:

[richardholdener]

Since this is a mass air management system, it has been very self compensating in terms of air/fuel and timing (we monitored via palm pilot), so no changes to ECU are necessary. Air fuel curve was basically same as stock. We think additional timing may help power since we were only registering a peak of 20-21 degrees (less in the mid range).

im a noob but 20+ whp is a big change for the yaris ecu wont this require some management of some sort? this is almost the same gains as the blitz:smile:

[marcus]

interesting...

[kou]

send it all please. this stuff is going to make me gutt my car.:burnrubber:

[PETERPOOP]

almost shipping time

[blacksandiegovitz]

almost shipping time

OHHHHH Yes !

[whooppee777]

Hey, for anyone wondering how the Yaris long tube header looks....

Here you go! Richard just sent me the picture... :thumbup:


:drool:

i'm confused. this will replace the mid pipe as well? would there really be a difference in power between this and say...the weapon R header that i have?

[richardholdener]

Th header you have is a replacement for the stock header-it (like the stock exhaust manifold) is too short to provide any scavenging effect. It is the scavenging effect that improves power, not simply additional flow.Basically the header must be tuned for the application. It can either fit in place of the stock exhaust manifodl or be tuned to improve the power-but not both. The long-tube header does require a different mid pipe which will be sold with the header.
i'm confused. this will replace the mid pipe as well? would there really be a difference in power between this and say...the weapon R header that i have?

[bdc87]

Now you need to take this to the track so we can get some 1/4mile and 60 times. 15.8?

[justjesus]

Too bad they closed Palmdale (LA County Raceway)

Now you need to take this to the track so we can get some 1/4mile and 60 times. 15.8?

[pinoypizzaboy]

Now you need to take this to the track so we can get some 1/4mile and 60 times. 15.8?

15.8 for a yaris thats crazzey. stock is like high 17s right?

[PHXDEMON]

I want one of those headers :drool:

[blacksandiegovitz]

I want one of those headers :drool:

If you really want one , please sign up for the long tube header Gb list. We only need 10 people...

[CASTREX]

15.8 for a yaris thats crazzey. stock is like high 17s right?

I pulled 15.85 on my Yaris with around 120 whp with some extra weight and heavy 17 rims. So that sounds about right.

[richardholdener]

How did you get 120 wheel hp from your yaris?

I pulled 15.85 on my Yaris with around 120 whp with some extra weight and heavy 17 rims. So that sounds about right.

[pinoypizzaboy]

How did you get 120 wheel hp from your yaris?

he has 1.8 motor I think but high 15s for a 1.5 yaris is fast right?

[bzinn 1]

WOW.......great work building all the materials to work together as you have put them.That in its self is hard to do at times and a lot of trial and error.

Now I gotta start saving as this could make a fun improvement at the track.

[richardholdener]

That would explain it. As indicated by the supplied grpah, despite nearly the same peak power, the 1.8L in the Xd and yaris TS offers more average power and will therefore accelerate quicker assuming similar weight and gearing.

he has 1.8 motor I think but high 15s for a 1.5 yaris is fast right?

[eTiMaGo]

no replacement for displacement :wink:

[bdc87]

I think stock 1.5L is 16.8. Remember reading this in R&T. It depends on the driver and variables but basic physics says 15.8-16 1/4 time.

[dallas]

Wow amazing gain for bolt on's, great work! What gear is the dyno run done in? I always thought that a tri Y header was better for scavenging and torque than a 4 into 1, yet this set up is impressive! :thumbup:


. Th header you have is a replacement for the stock header-it (like the stock exhaust manifold) is too short to provide any scavenging effect. It is the scavenging effect that improves power, not simply additional flow.Basically the header must be tuned for the application. It can either fit in place of the stock exhaust manifodl or be tuned to improve the power-but not both. The long-tube header does require a different mid pipe which will be sold with the header.

[dallas]

Sorry I just found your great explanation of header types on the other thread!

[whooppee777]

The long-tube header does require a different mid pipe which will be sold with the header.

that answers my question. thanks

[PETERPOOP]

What exhaust set up were you running for this dyno?


the long-tube header (also midpipe you will provide) and stock axleback? or the header/midpipe with the removal of the stock exhaust (running open exhuast manifold)? or the head/midpipe with the 2.5" exhaust

[at3GG]

i know something went "boom" when you were testing/troubleshooting/enjoying your proto turbo kit....any news on that?

[YarisPR]

The Xd throttle body is larger than the Yaris but it plugs right in and runs perfectrly on the yaris. Just needs a minute or two to idel down the first time you start it-ECU is not use to having such large throttl eopenings at idle but once this self adjustment takes place right after initial start up-it works perfectly and was worth roughly 2 hp at this power level. Intake will come with flange to accept Xd TB and have adapter plate to neck down for yaris TB.

Any chance u have any pics of the TB installed on the yaris?

[richardholdener]

The Xd TB was installed on the prototype intake-we won't have photos of the new intake until the production piece is ready. Externally, the Xd TB looks the same as the yaris.

Any chance u have any pics of the TB installed on the yaris?

[PETERPOOP]

can you answer my question about which exhaust setup you were running for this dyno or did i miss it earlier in the post? :iono:

i'm hoping it was just the stock exhaust or axleback and not the removal of the stock exhaust.

[richardholdener]

The exhaust run witht he long tube header was a 2.25-inch section of tubing to simulate a free flowing system. We willmake the long tube and mid pipe connect to the stock or after market axle back, but best results will come with 2.25-inch (or larger) exhaust.

can you answer my question about which exhaust setup you were running for this dyno or did i miss it earlier in the post? :iono:

i'm hoping it was just the stock exhaust or axleback and not the removal of the stock exhaust.

[PETERPOOP]

thanks!

[4MPG]

Pretty impressive.. dammed near 25 percent increase in power with zero tuning and only boltons.

Is there no way to tune the car other than a complete standalone system? I can defiantly see where your loosing some power to the tune (especially the dips between 4200~ and 5500~).

I have seen (on this forum) where people did piston swaps from other Toyota cars to get a bump in compression, any plans to try this out on your test mule?

[richardholdener]

I am very curious to know how you see where we are losing power due to tuning based on the graph provided. Since there is no evidence of the air/fuel ratio or timing values, how do you know where tuning may improve the power? To answer your question about tuning, we will be employing an FIC on the yaris motor (basically to increase the timing-since air/fuel is near spot on already. No plans on changing compression-the test motor belongs to another forum member and we don't think he will like us tearing his motor apart. BTW-The dips in the curves you are refering to are a function of the resonance waves from the long-tube headers and intake manifold.

Pretty impressive.. dammed near 25 percent increase in power with zero tuning and only boltons.

Is there no way to tune the car other than a complete standalone system? I can defiantly see where your loosing some power to the tune (especially the dips between 4200~ and 5500~).

I have seen (on this forum) where people did piston swaps from other Toyota cars to get a bump in compression, any plans to try this out on your test mule?

[4MPG]

I am very curious to know how you see where we are losing power due to tuning based on the graph provided. Since there is no evidence of the air/fuel ratio or timing values, how do you know where tuning may improve the power? To answer your question about tuning, we will be employing an FIC on the yaris motor (basically to increase the timing-since air/fuel is near spot on already. No plans on changing compression-the test motor belongs to another forum member and we don't think he will like us tearing his motor apart. BTW-The dips in the curves you are refering to are a function of the resonance waves from the long-tube headers and intake manifold.



Your seeing these kinds of dips etc due to the headers? The dyno sheets of the before/after of the headers really show some spots (4-5200) where it looked like a tuning issue, as it was present but not as exaggerated on the stock dyno, which I figured was a tuning issue. Its probably alot less important than it looks... on this scale every small change looks like a monster.

[thebarber]

Your seeing these kinds of dips etc due to the headers? The dyno sheets of the before/after of the headers really show some spots (4-5200) where it looked like a tuning issue, as it was present but not as exaggerated on the stock dyno, which I figured was a tuning issue. Its probably alot less important than it looks... on this scale every small change looks like a monster.
its not really a dip in the dyno, its just a flatter tq curve vs stock.....

[richardholdener]

My point is that the only way to determine if any dips in the power curve (HP or TQ) are caused by "tuning issues" is to compare the dips versus the air/fuel curve or the timing curve. This way you can determine if the dip is caused by a lean or rich mixture or by excessive or insufficient timing. Simply looking at dips in the power curve will not allow to to determine the reason they exist. As indicated previously, the dips in the power curve are caused by resonace tuning offered by the new induction and exhaust, not by air/fuel or timing. We know this because both air/fuel and timing curves remained identical before and after the header and/or intake installation (we always monitor both while dyno testing). This should clear everything up.

Your seeing these kinds of dips etc due to the headers? The dyno sheets of the before/after of the headers really show some spots (4-5200) where it looked like a tuning issue, as it was present but not as exaggerated on the stock dyno, which I figured was a tuning issue. Its probably alot less important than it looks... on this scale every small change looks like a monster.