Need to change my Sub, give me hand choosing the new one!!

[mledez]

Hi,

I drive a 08' Sedan without folding back seats... I was running Alpine Type R in front and back stage and Image Dynamics ID12D2V3 on the trunk...

I decided to change my front stage, the last week I installed Focal Polyglass Components and WTF the SQ is amazing, but now I need more bass because the focal go very very high...

All my gains are set using a velleman scope, so all the signals are very clean.

I have Eclipse XA-4000 125RMSx4 @4 for front and back stage and Orion 600D 600x1 @1ohm for the sub.

There's a problem in the sedan without folding seats, because the cabin of the car is tried to be isolated from the trunk the air movement inside the cabin s very poor compared with HB models, so I decided to remove the seats and make a test... And Woow the response is a lot better but not enought to compensate my new vocals

So I decided to buy a new Sub or a new pair, I'm comming for a very Musical Sub so SQ for my is very very important, but of course I need to get loud enougt to match the focal comps

My options are 1x JL 13W6v2 running about 450rms or 2x 12W3v3 @ 300rms each.

Please give me a hand, my budget is 400$

Attached Pics of my 4 months old hidden amps install, and new focal comps

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247/mledez/AudioYaris002.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247/mledez/AudioYaris003.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247/mledez/AudioYaris004.jpg

I build two Enclosures for the sub, Vented and Sealed (carpeted), using any box the bass is not enough "Without the focals comps, the sub appears a lot enough"

Oh, too much text (Sorry for that my english is not good)
Remember the question, Sub combination 400$...
My options JL 13w6v2, 2x 12w3v3... give me yours

[talnlnky]

Put your seats back in and remove the rear speakers ( in the rear deck)... that will give enough breathing room for the bass to enter the cabin, and still allow you to have your back seats in the car.

2nd... In terms of clean bass... its always better to go with 2 subs and stress them less (less cone movement) than have one and force it to move a lot. This is so because of mechanical noise, as well as BL (magnetic force) non-linearities.

Sealed boxes give a near perfect in car frequency response, however, ported boxes if designed properly can do the same exact thing, except with much less cone excursion (cone movement)... but at the huge cost of box size.

So, realistically, I see you having two options.... 1 sub ported, or two subs in sealed boxes.... amp power doesn't really matter, the more power you give a sub the more distortion it creates, but the louder it gets (to a point).

[mledez]

Put your seats back in and remove the rear speakers ( in the rear deck)... that will give enough breathing room for the bass to enter the cabin, and still allow you to have your back seats in the car.

2nd... In terms of clean bass... its always better to go with 2 subs and stress them less (less cone movement) than have one and force it to move a lot. This is so because of mechanical noise, as well as BL (magnetic force) non-linearities.

Sealed boxes give a near perfect in car frequency response, however, ported boxes if designed properly can do the same exact thing, except with much less cone excursion (cone movement)... but at the huge cost of box size.

So, realistically, I see you having two options.... 1 sub ported, or two subs in sealed boxes.... amp power doesn't really matter, the more power you give a sub the more distortion it creates, but the louder it gets (to a point).

:w00t: Hey, the back seat removal was just for test pourpose...

About your idea, I think it's excellent... If I fade the volume 100% to front now I hear a minimal difference in loudness, so WTF I don't need the rear speakers...

I will try'it on the next hours...

[mledez]

Put your seats back in and remove the rear speakers ( in the rear deck)... that will give enough breathing room for the bass to enter the cabin, and still allow you to have your back seats in the car.

2nd... In terms of clean bass... its always better to go with 2 subs and stress them less (less cone movement) than have one and force it to move a lot. This is so because of mechanical noise, as well as BL (magnetic force) non-linearities.

Sealed boxes give a near perfect in car frequency response, however, ported boxes if designed properly can do the same exact thing, except with much less cone excursion (cone movement)... but at the huge cost of box size.

So, realistically, I see you having two options.... 1 sub ported, or two subs in sealed boxes.... amp power doesn't really matter, the more power you give a sub the more distortion it creates, but the louder it gets (to a point).

I think another Idea might be, using the 6.5 coaxs instead of 6x9 (the Type-R that were in the front door, and make like side holes using the extra space of 6x9 openings

[Spades]

soon as i have the cash i will be swapping my clarion 6x9s i have in the back of my car right now for some infinity 4" speakers. i will be making a adapter plate so it doesnt look as tacky, most likely from mdf, and the plate will have a hole to allow extra sound to pass through.

also, to get more low/mid bass in the cab, i built boxes under my seats to house tang band 5" subwoofers. they work VERY well and add hit for the frequencies a normal sub cannot hit (classical music and music before the 80s). i dont listen to that music much, but, its clean bass to add to my heavier hit from the rear 12"s.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I drive with my rear seats folded as well. I recommend the Type R subs. I have a 10" (1042) with an Alpine amp that pushes out only ~400W. It hits hard, but it would hit harder if I had a better amp and/or box.

[talnlnky]

Its interesting how you picked up on the fact that the volume didn't really change at all when you cut the rear speakers. I challenge you to go back, and listen with some of the best sounding/best recorded music you have have and do that same A/B comparison of balanced vs 100% front. listen without any subs. Listen strictly for sound quality. Which do you prefer most?

Keep in mind that the 6x9's might add a little more low end, but you will have subs in the future.

The goal of all this is just to figure out if you would be happier with, or without rear fill.

once you figure that out... we can better address your options.

[mledez]

Its interesting how you picked up on the fact that the volume didn't really change at all when you cut the rear speakers. I challenge you to go back, and listen with some of the best sounding/best recorded music you have have and do that same A/B comparison of balanced vs 100% front. listen without any subs. Listen strictly for sound quality. Which do you prefer most?

Keep in mind that the 6x9's might add a little more low end, but you will have subs in the future.

The goal of all this is just to figure out if you would be happier with, or without rear fill.

once you figure that out... we can better address your options.

Sooo.. I installed the focal 40 V1 in a 50L tuned at 32hz. Wow the SQ eats the ID12 (I'm very surprised, My bet was ID for SQ).

I decided to give a try to your advice... So I compared Front vs Balanced
The first hour I was not happy, but now... I think rear fill is anoying.

Today I removed the rear speakers to let the air get inside the cabin.
I set up the gain for ID sub at 600RMS @ 1ohm Sealed.
Now I have 350RMS at 4@ vented @ 32 hz.
I have no increase in SPL but a lot of SQ

Very very very musical Sub (40 V1). I will sell the ID12.

The next week I'll install a new Amp configured at 500RMS @ 4ohm, I always overpower my subs taking care of the signal with my scope.

Excellent advice...

Regards

[talnlnky]

Sooo.. I installed the focal 40 V1 in a 50L tuned at 32hz. Wow the SQ eats the ID12 (I'm very surprised, My bet was ID for SQ).

I decided to give a try to your advice... So I compared Front vs Balanced
The first hour I was not happy, but now... I think rear fill is anoying.

Today I removed the rear speakers to let the air get inside the cabin.
I set up the gain for ID sub at 600RMS @ 1ohm Sealed.
Now I have 350RMS at 4@ vented @ 32 hz.
I have no increase in SPL but a lot of SQ

Very very very musical Sub (40 V1). I will sell the ID12.

The next week I'll install a new Amp configured at 500RMS @ 4ohm, I always overpower my subs taking care of the signal with my scope.

Excellent advice...

Regards

glad things worked well for you... sounds like you have a good setup there, and I love to hear people say that they set their gains with the aid of a scope. Nothing better than a bigger amp than you need, with gains set properly with a scope. Headroom is a very cool thing.

[bzinn 1]

I can honestly say I have rear comps in my tC and when I shut them off I have no less decible reading in the car,and my music actually sounds better.Pulling them out this summer and putting them in the Yaris to save me money on buying more....lol....I doubt my wife will ever know they are gone......lol

[mledez]

I can honestly say I have rear comps in my tC and when I shut them off I have no less decible reading in the car,and my music actually sounds better.Pulling them out this summer and putting them in the Yaris to save me money on buying more....lol....I doubt my wife will ever know they are gone......lol

:thumbsup:

Now I think rear fill is psychological