Seeking wheel advice from someone who KNOWS

[09TRD]

I'm looking at Centerlines (forged 6061-T6 alloy). They weigh 14 pounds each and are a bargain.

http://centerlinewheels.com/wheel_deals_detail.php?id=12436&type=vehicle&data=33

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc136/harddrivin1le_album/12436neutron.jpg



Anyway, I want a 15" wheel. The size they're offering is a 15" X 7" with a +42 mm offset.

I plan on running a 205/55-15 tire and have the full TRD suspension on the car (springs, shocks, bar).

Is that combination going to give me the clearance I need? I want NO RUBBING AT ALL.

Also, what is the hub diameter for these cars? I've heard 54.1". Is that correct?

I also wanted to verify that the lug spacing is 4 - 100mm.

[Tamago]

you are correct on all counts.. try to pick a "narrow" 205/55.. the fuzion zri was a pretty narrow 205 IIRC

[Tamago]

curious.. what is a "steal" because that's a pretty heavy 15" wheel

[09TRD]

curious.. what is a "steal" because that's a pretty heavy 15" wheel

I don't know what you mean when you ask, "What is a steal?"

14 pounds is incredibly light for a 15" X 7" wheel.

Most cast aluminum wheels in that size weigh between 18 and 19 pounds and aren't as strong.

[09TRD]

you are correct on all counts.. try to pick a "narrow" 205/55.. the fuzion zri was a pretty narrow 205 IIRC

Will a "wider" 205/55 rub with that wheel?

[Tamago]

14 pounds is incredibly light for a 15" X 7" wheel.

Most cast aluminum wheels in that size weigh between 18 and 19 pounds and aren't as strong.



12lbs is about average for a 15x7 "light" 15x7

a LIGHT 15x7 weighs under 10lbs

http://edgeracing.com/wheel/7866/

[Tamago]

Will a "wider" 205/55 rub with that wheel?

read up on section widths and tread widths on tirerack.com

i think you should clear a +42 ok with no rubbing issues.. what tire were you looking to get?

[Tamago]

I don't know what you mean when you ask, "What is a steal?"

i mean, how much are you getting them for?

[09TRD]

12lbs is about average for a 15x7 "light" 15x7

a LIGHT 15x7 weighs under 10lbs

http://edgeracing.com/wheel/7866/

How many ten pound wheels do you see here?

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/results.jsp?filterSize=15&filterFinish=All&filterBrand=All&filterSpecial=false&filterNew=All&autoMake=Toyota&autoModel=Yaris+Hatchback&autoYear=2008&autoModClar=&sort=Brand

19 pounds is about average for the TYPICAL 15 X 6.5" - 15" X 7" gravity cast aluminum wheel.

Racing wheels tend to bend on bad pavement (e.g. potholes, which our roads are full of). I don't want that. I want a robust wheel that's designed to handle the realities of STREET use.

Oh, I'm 45 and have a degree in mechanical engineering.

Go anything else you want to ask?

[Tamago]

How many ten pound wheels do you see here?

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/results.jsp?filterSize=15&filterFinish=All&filterBrand=All&filterSpecial=false&filterNew=All&autoMake=Toyota&autoModel=Yaris+Hatchback&autoYear=2008&autoModClar=&sort=Brand

19 pounds is about average for the TYPICAL gravity cast 15" X 7":

you're looking in the wrong places then..

www.goodwinracing.com will point you in the direction of quality wheels..

[09TRD]

i mean, how much are you getting them for?

Call and ask:

http://centerlinewheels.com/wheel_deals_detail.php?id=12436&type=vehicle&data=33

I believe they're in the $150 (each) range, which is extremely competitive for a forged 6061-T6 alloy wheel.

[Tamago]

Call and ask:

http://centerlinewheels.com/wheel_deals_detail.php?id=12436&type=vehicle&data=33

I believe they're in the $150 (each) range, which is extremely competitive for a forged 6061-T6 alloy wheel.

for forged, absolutely..

but for forged it's on the WAY heavy side

[09TRD]

you're looking in the wrong places then..

www.goodwinracing.com will point you in the direction of quality wheels..

I am not interested in a RACING WHEEL because they bend on bad pavement.

I want a STREET wheel that will handle potholes and broken pavement, which our roads are packed with.

[Russelt3hPirate]

How many ten pound wheels do you see here?

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/results.jsp?filterSize=15&filterFinish=All&filterBrand=All&filterSpecial=false&filterNew=All&autoMake=Toyota&autoModel=Yaris+Hatchback&autoYear=2008&autoModClar=&sort=Brand

19 pounds is about average for the TYPICAL 15 X 6.5" - 15" X 7" gravity cast aluminum wheel.

Racing wheels tend to bend on bad pavement (e.g. potholes, which our roads are full of). I don't want that. I want a robust wheel that's designed to handle the realities of STREET use.

Oh, I'm 45 and have a degree in mechanical engineering.

Go anything else you want to ask?

I have sub 10lb wheels on our Yaris.

Enkei RPF1s are sub 10lbs if you don't want to spend big $$ on wheels.

a 19lb 15" wheel is insane, i've had 17x8s that were that light.

[09TRD]

for forged, absolutely..

but for forged it's on the WAY heavy side

That's because it is a STRONG wheel designed primarily for use (and abuse) on the street.

Look at that wheels thick spokes; they're "heavy" because they are very strong.

[09TRD]

...a 19lb 15" wheel is insane, i've had 17x8s that were that light.

It's also TYPICAL for a gravity cast aluminum wheel in that size.

This FORGED 6061-T6 is very strong; check out the robust size and shape of the spokes.

It is designed primarily as a street wheel with the realities of street driving (ruts, potholes, frost-heaves and expansion joints) in mind.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc136/harddrivin1le_album/12436neutron.jpg

[Russelt3hPirate]

It's also TYPICAL for a gravity cast aluminum wheel in that size.

This FORGED 6061-T6 is very strong; check out the robust size and shape of the spokes.

It is designed primarily as a street wheel with the realities of street driving (ruts, potholes, frost-heaves and expansion joints) in mind.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc136/harddrivin1le_album/12436neutron.jpg

so you're saying my 9.9lb wheels will bend if I hit something?

is that a different wheel then the one on the first page?

I'm checking them and they're ugly as sin.

do you like the style? do you like the price?

then buy them, but they are not "light" when compared to the available wheels out there.

[09TRD]

...Enkei RPF1s are sub 10lbs if you don't want to spend big $$ on wheels.

That's a gravity cast wheel with very thin spokes.

That wheel wouldn't hold up on the roads here in the Northeast.

While it's heavier, the forged and polished Centerline is a vastly stronger, higher quality wheel.

[Tamago]

I am not interested in a RACING WHEEL because they bend on bad pavement.

I want a STREET wheel that will handle potholes and broken pavement, which our roads are packed with.

i have a set of team dynamics that are very low offset (read: heavy) 12.6lbs that i've used on the street and track for 4 years now, no bends no cracks..

[09TRD]

so you're saying my 9.9lb wheels will bend if I hit something?.

Yep, that's what I'm saying.

Any "racing" wheel will bend on roads like those we have here in the Northeast.

I've seen several Enkeis fold like accordians up here.

[09TRD]

i have a set of team dynamics that are very low offset (read: heavy) 12.6lbs that i've used on the street and track for 4 years now, no bends no cracks..

That's believable.

But a 12.6 pound wheel has nearly 30% more material than those sub 10 pound "racing" Enkeis.

I want a nice looking, strong, forged wheel for under $200 that can handle the beating of these roads.

[Tamago]

That's a gravity cast wheel with very thin spokes.

That wheel wouldn't hold up on the roads here in the Northeast.

While it's heavier, the forged and polished Centerline is a vastly stronger, higher quality wheel.

ok, so you're set on the centerline.. let's drop it because we think you're wrong and you think we're wrong.. you're going to a wheel that's about the same weight as stock steelies

your offset will be fine..
you have the correct hub bore
stick to that low section width 205

i'm out..

[09TRD]

ok, so you're set on the centerline.. let's drop it because we think you're wrong and you think we're wrong.. you're going to a wheel that's about the same weight as stock steelies

your offset will be fine..
you have the correct hub bore
stick to that low section width 205

i'm out..

The wheel I'm talking about that weighs 15 pounds is a 17" diameter wheel.

They don't list the weight for the 15" version, though it would obviously be lighter:

http://centerlinewheels.com/wheels_detail.php?mw_id=36&sw_id=263 "Our 17" wheel weighs only 15 lbs!"

[Tamago]

then how come it says:

This 15-inch forged wheel weighs only 14 lbs and is stronger than a cast wheel ! ++

[09TRD]

then how come it says:

14 pounds is light for an aluminum STREET wheel with a 1,200 pound load rating.

Racing wheels can be lighter because tracks aren't full of potholes, frostheaves and expansion joints.

Drive a 10 pound racing wheel on these roads and see how long it lasts.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/wheels-tires/56758-word-bbs-race-wheels-street-use.html

"A word on BBS Race wheels for street use
I see many inquiries and threads on these wheels, and I think it's fair to warn people that don't know that these wheels were not designed for street use and BBS does not recommend them to be used off of a track. The barrel sections are roll formed and they are considerably thinner on these wheels than they would be on one of their road wheels. It saves weight, but it makes the wheel much more likely to be damaged by potholes, etc."

[Russelt3hPirate]

Yep, that's what I'm saying.

Any "racing" wheel will bend on roads like those we have here in the Northeast.

I've seen several Enkeis fold like accordians up here.

I don't have enkeis.

So my CCWs will bend on your roads? but they weigh 25lbs for a 17x10?

please help me understand your logic and where your basis of argument is coming from.

by adding more material increasing weight does not automatically make a wheel "stronger" then a lighter counterpart.

I've also seen higher weight wheels bend. Alot of times it's due to the tire pressure being overly low, or the sidewall height being too short for the type of road.

Wheels are designed to bend when an extreme situation happens, it's better for them to bend then break.

by your "weight" standards those 17" centerlines wouldn't put up to squat. So what makes you think their 15" version is worth anything? because the website said so? :lol:

I feel spoke design (less spacing between spokes), proper sidewall height, proper tire pressure, and as much as safe pothole avoidance is going to save your wheels more then adding 2lbs of metal somewhere.

[Russelt3hPirate]

14 pounds is light for an aluminum STREET wheel with a 1,200 pound load rating.

Racing wheels can be lighter because tracks aren't full of potholes, frostheaves and expansion joints.

Drive a 10 pound racing wheel on these roads and see how long it lasts.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/wheels-tires/56758-word-bbs-race-wheels-street-use.html

"A word on BBS Race wheels for street use
I see many inquiries and threads on these wheels, and I think it's fair to warn people that don't know that these wheels were not designed for street use and BBS does not recommend them to be used off of a track. The barrel sections are roll formed and they are considerably thinner on these wheels than they would be on one of their road wheels. It saves weight, but it makes the wheel much more likely to be damaged by potholes, etc."

so bc a specific BBS "race" wheel isn't meant for street use all light weight wheels don't pass your strict testing? :rolleyes:

[09TRD]

I don't have enkeis.

So my CCWs will bend on your roads? but they weigh 25lbs for a 17x10?

please help me understand your logic and where your basis of argument is coming from.

by adding more material increasing weight does not automatically make a wheel "stronger" then a lighter counterpart.

I've also seen higher weight wheels bend. Alot of times it's due to the tire pressure being overly low, or the sidewall height being too short for the type of road.

Wheels are designed to bend when an extreme situation happens, it's better for them to bend then break.

by your "weight" standards those 17" centerlines wouldn't put up to squat. So what makes you think their 15" version is worth anything? because the website said so? :lol:

I feel spoke design (less spacing between spokes), proper sidewall height, proper tire pressure, and as much as safe pothole avoidance is going to save your wheels more then adding 2lbs of metal somewhere.

I'm telling you that any "RACING" wheel isn't designed for STREET use.

Period.

That's because the barrel sections and the spoke sections are much thinner than what would be considered appropriate for STREET use.

Race tracks are SMOOTH, so thinner walls (which means lighter weight) are OK there.

Those Centerlines are thick-walled, FORGED 6061-T6 wheels.

They are MUCH stronger than any thin walled, cast wheel.

6061-T6's mechanical properties (e.g. yield strength) blow away the properties of cast aluminums.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminum

Compare those propertied to A356 aluminum, which is the most common aluminum used in cast wheels:

http://www.mse.mtu.edu/classes/my4130/databank/aluminum/a356.html

[Tamago]

i think this guy should change his thread title to "seeking advice from people who will agree with me"

because you're talking right now to two people who KNOW

[Tamago]

I'm telling you that any "RACING" wheel isn't designed for STREET use.

Period.

That's because the barrel sections and the spoke sections are much thinner than what would be considered appropriate for STREET use.

Race tracks are SMOOTH, so thinner walls (which means lighter weight) are OK there.

question...

what makes a wheel a "racing" wheel? are AMERICAN RACING wheels RACING wheels because their name has RACING in it?

[09TRD]

question...

what makes a wheel a "racing" wheel?...

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/wheels-tires/56758-word-bbs-race-wheels-street-use.html

"A word on BBS Race wheels for street use
I see many inquiries and threads on these wheels, and I think it's fair to warn people that don't know that these wheels were not designed for street use and BBS does not recommend them to be used off of a track. The barrel sections are roll formed and they are considerably thinner on these wheels than they would be on one of their road wheels. It saves weight, but it makes the wheel much more likely to be damaged by potholes, etc."

Cast aluminum racing wheels are typically made from A356 aluminum and are very light. By definition they can't be strong, since the material properties of that aluminum are quite low and since real racing wheels use very thin walls (in the barrel and the spokes).

Here are the material properties of A356, which is the most commonly used aluminum in cast wheels. They are laughable compared to a good forging:

http://www.mse.mtu.edu/classes/my4130/databank/aluminum/a356.html

Centerline wheels are fabricated exclusively from 6061-T6, which is a forged, aircraft grade aluminum. They also use thick walls, since they are designed primarily for STREET use.

http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA6061T6

[Russelt3hPirate]

I'm telling you that any "RACING" wheel isn't designed for STREET use.

Period.

That's because the barrel sections and the spoke sections are much thinner than what would be considered appropriate for STREET use.

Race tracks are SMOOTH, so thinner walls (which means lighter weight) are OK there.

Those Centerlines are thick-walled, FORGED 6061-T6 wheels.

They are MUCH stronger than any thin walled, cast wheel.

6061-T6's mechanical properties (e.g. yield strength) blow away the properties of cast aluminums.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminum

Compare those propertied to A356 aluminum, which is the most common aluminum used in cast wheels:

http://www.mse.mtu.edu/classes/my4130/databank/aluminum/a356.html


I'm just trying to understand your logic, you keep repeating the same thing over and over without actually addressing anything.

Would you consider a wheel that meets JWL standards good enough for the street?

The wheels I have are 15x7 +35mm Forged, so am I good to go?

I'd like to see a list of companies you feel make quality street wheels, just to get an idea of what you consider a "street" wheel.

I'm also curious if you're lumping all BBS wheels in with the "BBS Racing" wheels. I've had BBS wheels on my other car for ages now and they have held up amazingly well.

also, not all race tracks are smooth, and track wheels generally face more strain then your average street wheel. You ever hit a berm at 45 mph? those aren't little rumble strips like you feel on your xbox. :lol:

it's funny, I hear the exact opposite logic from people daily. "these wheels wont see the track so I don't need something forged/strong/stay in one piece"

and now you're saying that a quality wheel that is lightweight and forged is going to bend used on the street?

can you define "racing" wheel for us.

[Loren]

14 pounds isn't "obscenely heavy" for a 15x7, but it's not exactly "light", either.

My 15x7 Falken Hanabi's weigh just a tick over 11 pounds each and cost about $89 each. THAT is light and cheap. But, not everyone likes the styling. My goals were "light and cheap", so I didn't care.

To answer your rubbing question: I'd stick with 195/55's. I've not had any rubbing with those. Had some with 215/50's (Toyo T1-R, which were actually closer to 205). And I'm on 15x7 with 41mm offset.

I also had rubbing on the upper fender liner under hard cornering with 195/55's on a 15x7 with 32mm offset. Definitely stick with offset in the 40-45mm range unless you value the bling of "flushness" more than not rubbing.

[Russelt3hPirate]

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/wheels-tires/56758-word-bbs-race-wheels-street-use.html

"A word on BBS Race wheels for street use
I see many inquiries and threads on these wheels, and I think it's fair to warn people that don't know that these wheels were not designed for street use and BBS does not recommend them to be used off of a track. The barrel sections are roll formed and they are considerably thinner on these wheels than they would be on one of their road wheels. It saves weight, but it makes the wheel much more likely to be damaged by potholes, etc."

Cast aluminum racing wheels are typically made from A356 aluminum and are very light. By definition they can't be strong, since the material properties of that aluminum are quite low and since real racing wheels use very thin walls (in the barrel and the spokes).

Here are the material properties of A356, which is the most commonly used aluminum in cast wheels. They are laughable compared to a good forging:

http://www.mse.mtu.edu/classes/my4130/databank/aluminum/a356.html

we got it, you read somewhere that a racing wheel from BBS isn't for the street :clap:

there are plenty of Racing wheels that aren't designed for street use and are sold as exactly that "only for Racing". Not all wheels that are light were designed with that one goal in mind, many wheels you would consider "race" wheels were designed for dual duty purposes and can handle the rigors of street use assuming you're not a retard.

will you please answer our questions?

[Russelt3hPirate]

unless you value the bling of "flushness" more than not rubbing.

with the proper setup you can have bling flushness and no rubbing. :)

just takes a little extra work.

[09TRD]

we got it, you read somewhere that a racing wheel from BBS isn't for the street :clap:

there are plenty of Racing wheels that aren't designed for street use and are sold as exactly that "only for Racing". Not all wheels that are light were designed with that one goal in mind, many wheels you would consider "race" wheels were designed for dual duty purposes and can handle the rigors of street use assuming you're not a retard.

will you please answer our questions?

Manufacturers go to extremes to save weight and increase fuel economy.

Cast aluminum wheels are common in OEM applications.

Show me just ONE OEM cast wheel that weighs anything close to 10 pounds. (20 pounds is closer to realty for most 15" and 16" OEM aluminum wheels).

You can't - despite the fact that such a wheel would be "win win" for the manufactures since they'd be CHEAPER to build (less material) and would yield a slight gain in fuel economy (lower weight and reduced rotating intertia).

So why don't they do it?

Answer: Because such a wheel would produce a flood of warranty claims in the form of bent rims.

Thin wall, cast aluminum wheels will BEND on roads like we have here in the Northeast and I've personally seen dozens that have.

[Russelt3hPirate]

Manufacturers go to extremes to save weight and increase fuel economy.

Cast aluminum wheels are common in OEM applications.

Show me just ONE OEM cast wheel that weighs anything close to 10 pounds. (20 pounds is closer to realty for most 15" and 16" OEM aluminum wheels).

You can't - despite the fact that such a wheel would be "win win" for the manufactures since they're be CHEAPER to build (less material) and would increase a slight gain in fuel economy (lower weight and rotating intertia).

So why don't they do it?

Answer: Because such a wheel would produce a flood of warranty claims in the form of bent rims.

since when are we talking OEM's?

OEM wheels also need to stand up to some dumb girl running over a curb at 35 mph and being able to go home and not tell mommy.

I'll try and re-organize our questions for you in a easier to read format. BRB.

[09TRD]

14 pounds isn't "obscenely heavy" for a 15x7, but it's not exactly "light", either.

My 15x7 Falken Hanabi's weigh just a tick over 11 pounds each and cost about $89 each. THAT is light and cheap. But, not everyone likes the styling. My goals were "light and cheap", so I didn't care.

To answer your rubbing question: I'd stick with 195/55's. I've not had any rubbing with those. Had some with 215/50's (Toyo T1-R, which were actually closer to 205). And I'm on 15x7 with 41mm offset.

I also had rubbing on the upper fender liner under hard cornering with 195/55's on a 15x7 with 32mm offset. Definitely stick with offset in the 40-45mm range unless you value the bling of "flushness" more than not rubbing.

Thanks for the advice.

Living here in the Northeast (pothole and frost-heave ravaged roads), I value strength.

I have yet to see an OEM aluminum wheel bend in this area, yet I've seen dozens of lightweight, cast aftermarket wheels bend.

Such is the cost of reducing weight by effectively removing material.

[09TRD]

since when are we talking OEM's?

OEM wheels also need to stand up to some dumb girl running over a curb at 35 mph and being able to go home and not tell mommy.

I'll try and re-organize our questions for you in a easier to read format. BRB.

The fact of the matter is that 15" - 16" OEM aluminum wheels weigh ~ 20 pounds because they are cast (cheaper than forgings), yet still must be ROBUST enough to deal with the rigors of street use. That means thick barrel sections and reasonably robust spokes (each of which adds weight).

The manufacturers would save money AND increase fuel economy if they could use 10 pounds wheels of the same size instead.

They don't because warranty claims (in the form of bent/damaged wheels) would skyrocket in areas like the Northeast.

Any 15"+ cast aluminum wheel that is lighter than 17.5 pounds or so is pushing the limit of impact-related durability in street applications.

Anyone who wants a wheel in that size that is LIGHTER than that AND values durability on the street would be wise to choose a forging.

[Russelt3hPirate]

here's a little list of questions for you.

Would you consider a wheel that meets JWL standards good enough for the street?

The wheels I have are 15x7 +35mm Forged, so am I good to go?

I'd like to see a list of companies you feel make quality street wheels, just to get an idea of what you consider a "street" wheel.

I'm also curious if you're lumping all BBS wheels in with the "BBS Racing" wheels. I've had BBS wheels on my other car for ages now and they have held up amazingly well.

So my CCWs will bend on your roads? but they weigh 25lbs for a 17x10?

by your "weight" standards those 17" centerlines wouldn't put up to squat. So what makes you think their 15" version is worth anything? because the website said so?

so bc a specific BBS "race" wheel isn't meant for street use all light weight wheels don't pass your strict testing?


what makes a wheel a "racing" wheel? are AMERICAN RACING wheels RACING wheels because their name has RACING in it?

[Russelt3hPirate]

Thanks for the advice.

Living here in the Northeast (pothole and frost-heave ravaged roads), I value strength.

I have yet to see an OEM aluminum wheel bend in this area, yet I've seen dozens of lightweight, cast aftermarket wheels bend.

Such is the cost of reducing weight by effectively removing material.

I've seen an OEM aluminum wheel fall apart in NJ.

[09TRD]

I've seen an OEM aluminum wheel fall apart in NJ.

There are perhaps 5,000 of them for every one aftermarket wheel.

Try running a 10 pound aftermarket "racing wheel" in the NJ streets and see how long it lasts. :bellyroll:

[Russelt3hPirate]

The fact of the matter is that 15" - 16" OEM aluminum wheels weigh ~ 20 pounds because they are cast (cheaper than forgings), yet still must be ROBUST enough to deal with the rigors of street use. That means thick barrel sections and reasonably robust spokes (each of which adds weight).

The manufacturers would save money AND increase fuel economy if they could use 10 pounds wheels of the same size instead.

They don't because warranty claims (in the form of bent/damaged wheels) would skyrocket in areas like the Northeast.

Any 15"+ cast aluminum wheel that is lighter than 17.5 pounds or so is pushing the limit of impact-related durability in street applications.

Anyone who wants a wheel in that size that is LIGHTER than that AND values durability on the street would be wise to choose a forging.

Is this blue's clues? are you repeating yourself assuming we can't read?

come on now. I'd be more than happy to continue debating the value of an OEM wheel and why only a select few use Forged wheels, but that wasn't the topic of conversation.

I have a strong feeling you wanted someone to just agree with you and say "yes good choice" instead of someone actually criticizing your decision of picking a crappy wheel, at least they aren't knock offs.

[09TRD]

by your "weight" standards those 17" centerlines wouldn't put up to squat.


Do you understand the difference between a 6061-T6 FORGING and a sand casting (e.g. A356)? :iono:

The Centerlines are FORGINGS (6061-T6). As such, they have a MUCH higher strength-to-weight ratio than cast wheels.

The forging is 1.5X as strong (35,000 PSI YIELD vs. 24,000 PSI YIELD for the casting).

In other words, the forged wheel could weigh roughly TWO-THIRDS that of its cast counterpart and still be just as strong.

[Russelt3hPirate]

There are perhaps 5,000 of them for every one aftermarket wheel.

Try running a 10 pound aftermarket "racing wheel" in the NJ streets and see how long it lasts. :bellyroll:

I'm sure people do, in fact I know people running 18" variants of my wheel (not 10 lbs since it's a 18" wheel) but they aren't destroyed as you seem to be implying.

also, if a wheel is damaged by the state owned roads you can get the state to buy you a new wheel.

Seen it done numerous times when it is properly documented.

[Russelt3hPirate]

The Centerlines are FORGINGS. As such, they have a MUCH higher strength to weight ratio.

Do you understand the difference between a 6061-T6 FORGING and a sand casting (e.g. A356)?

The forging is 1.5X as strong (35,000 PSI YIELD vs. 24,000 PSI YIELD for the casting).

In other words, the forged wheel could weigh roughly TWO-THIRDS that of its cast counterpart and still be just as strong.

Thus, a 14 pound FORGED 15" wheel is actually quite strong.

Yes I understand.

so my 9.9lb Forged wheels are going to break? any minute now?

Are my wheels considered racing wheels and have an inferior build to your centerlines?

[Tamago]

with the proper setup you can have bling flushness and no rubbing. :)

just takes a little extra work.

hours of labor at the alignment rack :redface:

[09TRD]

I'm sure people do, in fact I know people running 18" variants of my wheel (not 10 lbs since it's a 18" wheel) but they aren't destroyed as you seem to be implying.

also, if a wheel is damaged by the state owned roads you can get the state to buy you a new wheel.

Seen it done numerous times when it is properly documented.

A wheel's strength is dictated primarily by it's wall thicknesses and it's material. (Spoke placement and the number of spokes is also a factor.)

A cast 15" wheel that weighs 10 pounds cannot, by definition, be a strong wheel in terms of impact loading (e.g. hitting a pothole).

Conversely, a forged (e.g. 6016-T6) 15" wheel that weighs 14 pounds will likely be VERY strong.

[Tamago]

Thin wall, cast aluminum wheels will BEND on roads like we have here in the Northeast and I've personally seen dozens that have.

thin wall FORGED ALUMINUM WHEELS will bend as well, depending on the stupidity of the driver..

my wheels, Team Dynamic Pro Race 1's are used in the BTCC (in monohub form) and are a cast wheel..

now.. does that make them race wheels or street wheels?

[Tamago]

A wheel's strength is dictated primarily by it's wall thicknesses and it's material.

A cast 15" wheel that weighs 10 pounds cannot, by definition, be a strong wheel in terms of impact loading (e.g. hitting a pothole).

so you'd rather drive around on wheels that look like they should be on a 1977 ford falcon simply because they're FORGED???

why are you buying wheels in the first place?

[09TRD]

Yes I understand.

so my 9.9lb Forged wheels are going to break? any minute now?

Are my wheels considered racing wheels and have an inferior build to your centerlines?

I don't know nor do I care.

A 10 pound wheel - forged or not - is pushing the limits of durability on pothole filled streets - assuming the wheel isn't very narrow (e.g. 5" wide).

[Tamago]

Conversely, a forged (e.g. 6016-T6) 15" wheel that weighs 14 pounds will likely be VERY strong.

or just improperly designed..

you should have a set of wheels made out of these:

http://www.edgb2b.co.uk/images/produit/produit_la_33123.jpg

you'll never bend them and they'll be plenty heavy enough for you

oh and cute typo on 6061-t6...

[Russelt3hPirate]

I don't know nor do I care.

A 10 pound wheel - forged or not - is pushing the limits of durability on pothole filled streets - assuming the wheel isn't very narrow (e.g. 5" wide).

sweet.

So what happens when you find out your 15" centerline weighs 11lbs? :bellyroll:

[Tamago]

sweet.

So what happens when you find out your 15" centerline weighs 11lbs? :bellyroll:

he'll send them back


oh btw, i've rocked a 350Z around RI.. your roads are actually VERY VERY NICE.. come to miami if you want to see some bad pothles

[09TRD]

so you'd rather drive around on wheels that look like they should be on a 1977 ford falcon simply because they're FORGED???

why are you buying wheels in the first place?

My main purpose for buying wheels concerns width; the OEMs are just 5.5" wide.

A 7" wide wheels would yield big improvements.

Aluminum is the only choice in that width and the roads here are in rough shape. That brings the choices down to a ~ 19 pound plus cast aluminum wheel or a ~ 14 pound forged aluminum wheel.

(As a mechanical engineer, I have already ruled out the possibility of running a featherweight RACING wheel, since I know it would bend do to impact loading on these roads shortly after it was fitted to the car.)

I'd give those Enkeis some serious consideration if I were looking to track the car. But I'm not.

[Tamago]

My main purpose for buying wheels concerns width; the OEMs are just 5.5" wide.

A 7" wide wheels would yield big improvements.

Aluminum is the only choice in that width and the roads here are in rough shape. That brings the choices down to a ~ 19 pound plus cast aluminum wheel or a ~ 14 pound forged aluminum wheel.

(As a mechanical engineer, I have already ruled out the possibility of running a featherweight RACING wheel, since I know it would bend do to impact loading on these roads shortly after it was fitted to the car.)

I'd give those Enkeis some serious consideration if I were looking to track the car. But I'm not.

ohh you're a mechanical engineer.. it call comes together....

and how exactly is going to a wider wheel gonna "yield big improvements" ? your gas mileage will drop, running a wider tire will cause your car to tramline, and you'll have more issues in the snow as well as in water (hydroplaning)

so mr engineer.. justify those reasons to go to a wider wheel and i'm up to speed.

[09TRD]

ohh you're a mechanical engineer.. it call comes together....

and how exactly is going to a wider wheel gonna "yield big improvements" ? your gas mileage will drop, running a wider tire will cause your car to tramline, and you'll have more issues in the snow as well as in water (hydroplaning)

so mr engineer.. justify those reasons to go to a wider wheel and i'm up to speed.

The relationship between wheel width and general improvements in handling is well documented.

A 205 mm wide tire mounted on a 7" wide rim will neither tramline nor aquaplane.

[Tamago]

The relationship between wheel width and general improvements in handling is well documented.

A 205 mm wide tire mounted on a 7" wide rim will neither tramline nor aquaplane.


after purchasing your Ford Falcon wheels and most likely firestone tires to go with them (get the whitewall ones for that full whitetrash effect) you let me know how badly it handles in the ruts compared to stock..

running a good tire on your stock width wheel will be just as good as your proposed setup..

that being said if you're gonna RACE THE CAR you should go to a wider wheel, but on such a light vehicle, you're never gonna over-drive those stock wheels..

but you're not racing.. so you don't need 7" wide wheels


dude... seriously... you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth here

[Russelt3hPirate]

My main purpose for buying wheels concerns width; the OEMs are just 5.5" wide.

A 7" wide wheels would yield big improvements.

Aluminum is the only choice in that width and the roads here are in rough shape. That brings the choices down to a ~ 19 pound plus cast aluminum wheel or a ~ 14 pound forged aluminum wheel.

(As a mechanical engineer, I have already ruled out the possibility of running a featherweight RACING wheel, since I know it would bend do to impact loading on these roads shortly after it was fitted to the car.)

I'd give those Enkeis some serious consideration if I were looking to track the car. But I'm not.

would steel ever be an option for a standard summer wheel? :lol:

of course you're going to aluminum, I know you wont go Carbon or Mag so that leaves Aluminum.

where did you derive your 14lb forged wheel #? so 13lbs is too light and 15lbs is too heavy?

or are you going off the basis of 2/3rds as light and my cast aluminum wheel would need to be as heavy as the stockers?

the reason I ask, is Tamagos Team Dynamics are some of the strongest wheels on the market. Even comparing them to a "forged" wheel. There are plenty of quality wheels in both Forged and Cast that can help save weight and be as strong if not stronger then the stock wheels, you just need to know where to look. You also need to do more research then just pulling quotes from the manufacture website.

What would you assume to be stronger? a wheel used in Rally competition world wide, or a wheel that says it's good for the street?

I gave the enkei's some serious consideration but opted to go with some 15x7 +35mm Volk Racing RE30s, could've saved a few tenths if i went to a higher offset and reduced the pad height.

there is a place for every construction of wheel, they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but you seem to be grapping on to the one "It's forged" there for it's stronger b/c I'm an engineer.

are all forging techniques equal?

just b/c it says forged doesn't mean it's bullet proof, especially if you're only paying $150 a pop.

Forging a wheel properly isn't cheap.

either way, you're sold on the wheels anyway.

look 9.25 lbs each, strong spoke design.

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-1408381693991_2033_4462248

so are these weak too simply based on their weight? :lol:

Regamasters must be weak and break instantly....

[Russelt3hPirate]

The relationship between wheel width and general improvements in handling is well documented.

A 205 mm wide tire mounted on a 7" wide rim will neither tramline nor aquaplane.

really?

I've found that when I installed our 205s on our 7" wheels we noticed more tramlining and hydroplaning.

and we've got excellent summer/rain tires (RE750s).

then again what would we know? we're only running 205/55/15s on a 7" wheel on a Yaris where it rains constantly during the summer.... ahaha.

[ChinoCharles]

I'm gonna go ahead and put this thread out of its misery.