Mobil-1 5W-30 does not meet SM/SL standards?

[TheSilkySmooth]

check it at this professional webzine:

http://www.jobbersworld.com/December%2011,%202008.htm

the bro

[TheSilkySmooth]

Here is a short explanation ( with photos!) of the sequence iva test

http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTests/IVAtest/default.htm

[PetersRedYaris]

Interesting. I had already been planning to switch to SynPower simple because (at Walmart) it's $19 for a 5 quart jug vs. $26+ for Mobile 1.

[Doug007]

Interesting. I had already been planning to switch to SynPower simple because (at Walmart) it's $19 for a 5 quart jug vs. $26+ for Mobile 1.

Me too...I'm due for an oil change and was considering making the switch from Mobil 1; this cements the deal.

[nsmitchell]

Sheetah! Some guy told me a while ago that Valvoline Synthetic oil was better than Mobil-1. I thought he was just blowing smoke.

I may switch on my next oil change. Shame on Mobil-1. They took their eye off the ball!

http://www.valvoline.com/synpower-wearprotection/index.asp?utm_source=brandpage&utm_medium=landingpage&utm_campaign=synpower%2Bpromotion (http://www.valvoline.com/synpower-wearprotection/index.asp?utm_source=brandpage&utm_medium=landingpage&utm_campaign=synpower%2Bpromotion)

Valvoline ain't shy about their claim either!

[gid]

Interesting. I had already been planning to switch to SynPower simple because (at Walmart) it's $19 for a 5 quart jug vs. $26+ for Mobile 1. used it for 4,500 mile stint in the '08 Liftback . You'll find good U.O.A.s at www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=3&page=1 . I got 4 quarts of the SYNPOWER awhile ago at K-MART for $2.99 each . There's a $10 rebate for VALVOLINE as well . Go to www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1266764&fpart=1 and click on VALVOLINE REBATE in 1st post which will take you to the rebate that has been extended to FEBRUARY 2nd of 2009 ( disregard the expiration date of DECEMBER 31 , 2008 ) . That'll make the 5 quart jug $9.99 , thus $2 a quart for the SYNPOWER synthetic .

[TheSilkySmooth]

Gid being the bargain hunter:
$10 off coupon ( mial in rebate) at valvoline site on 5qts of Synpower - I saw this while watching a vid of their testing lab which is cool :w00t:

now where do I buy synpower at the cheapest price???

I may not want it though - I still think synpower its a grpIII mix. I want the jet engine oil! polyol=ester or di=ester. This is the ONLY real stuff in my book and is the "old school syn people think about. Make GOBS of power and leaks out all over the place - gotta love it.

This is the real stuff HERE> http://www.kemopro.com/productinfo/engine.html

but I dont know if I trust the blender

[TheSilkySmooth]

Crapo! I just fully read Gid's post above about the rebate too - I shoulda known he would be on this like a rabid dog on a red squirrel:tongue:

[TheSilkySmooth]

I hear ( and you UOA guys can confirm this) The Valvoline maxlife is better than the synpower - but does it have the API approval or does it have too much antiwear additive to meet SM? Back to the valvoline site ... ...

[gid]

these are the days it pays to be a tight:moon:. :biggrin:

[jambo101]

Good read on various oils http://www.baileycar.com/engine_lube_html.htm

[jambo101]

Now for the interesting part...

According to a letter Valvoline marketers received, the result from Valvoline's testing indicate:

Valvoline SynPower's 5W-30 wear performance is at least four times better than Mobil 1 5W-30
Mobil 1 5W-30 does not meet minimum API SM or ILSAC GF-4 specification because of its inferior performance in the Sequence IVA wear test


Not sure i'd hang Mobil1 out to dry on the strength of 1 anonomous letter,probably from one of Mobil's competitors,probably Valvoline.

[marcus]

this could be why i dropped mpg when i switch to mobil1 synth...significant drop.. lost about 30 km on a 36 liter tank,..

[Chupacabra]

The trend around some of the communities I visit is that people are distancing themselves from Mobil synthetic oils especially the 5-30. People noted oil analysis (back to back) that showed higher metal contents. I am considering switching but am not totally sold on the fact yet.

[TheSilkySmooth]

Not sure i'd hang Mobil1 out to dry on the strength of 1 anonomous letter,probably from one of Mobil's competitors,probably Valvoline. They (Valvoline) have issued multiple official letters clearly stating that sampling of the 5W-30 M1 does not meet SL or SM minimum standards and is not appropriate for use in current motor vehicles under warranty. I'll look for letter ... . I am not taking any sides here - I've gotten rotten batches of oil from Valvoline AND Mobil. Could have be a EOM Management decision to release underperforming material - happens all the time in even the most stringent arenas ( medical, aerospace, communications tech, auto tech). Look at the Columbia disaster for an prime example of Management incompetence or carelessness:mad:

[TheSilkySmooth]

open letter from valvoline:

[Thirty-Nine]

Interesting ... I'll have to do some research, too. I've run two oil changes worth of Mobile 1 5w 30. No noticeable increase (or decrease) in mileage, though.

I'm not doubting Valvoline makes a great product; I'd just be leery of any marketing hype.

[firemachine69]

I hear ( and you UOA guys can confirm this) The Valvoline maxlife is better than the synpower - but does it have the API approval or does it have too much antiwear additive to meet SM? Back to the valvoline site ... ...



It's SM-rated, but does not qualify for the energy-efficiency starburst.

[Shroomster]

I currently have mobil-1 5w20 in the wife's yaris and Castrol Syntec 5w20 in my civic

both of those have this sm sl jargon on the bottles so I guess i'm fine using them still....

[gid]

wonder how SHELL Full synthetic and PENNZOIL Platinum compare to the SYNPOWER ? Do you ? I don't . :iono:

[jambo101]

According to these tests Amsoil is the best

http://www.modernoils.com/competition.html

[nsmitchell]

what about ELF, kim thinking of getting that one in my Yaris.

ELF TOTAL QUARTZ FUTURE 9000 5W30
I've heard it has elfen magic...

[Chupacabra]

According to these tests Amsoil is the best

http://www.modernoils.com/competition.html

....and M1 EP seems to be 2nd best :smile:

[TheSilkySmooth]

wonder how SHELL Full synthetic and PENNZOIL Platinum compare to the SYNPOWER ? Do you ? I don't . :iono: I'm tired of this oil stuff too. But this Ali/Fraser battle was too good to pass up:wink:

[TheSilkySmooth]

....and M1 EP seems to be 2nd best :smile:
EOM supplies Amsoil their base stock?

[TheSilkySmooth]

....and M1 EP seems to be 2nd best :smile:
Run it, have engine failure, Warranty wont cover due to oil not meeting manufacturer\'s spec, Now you have to prove to E.O.M. that their oil is bad(ha!) and caused failure, wait 3 years maybe get some money if you are lucky. In the meantime you pay $4500. for engine repair. Sure I want to use that stuff!:headbang:

[TheSilkySmooth]

Run it, have engine failure, Warranty wont cover due to oil not meeting manufacturer\'s spec, Now you have to prove to E.O.M. that their oil is bad(ha!) and caused failure, wait 3 years maybe get some money if you are lucky. In the meantime you pay $4500. for engine repair. Sure I want to use that stuff!:headbang:
What am I sayin?! It's gonna be a pissing contest ANYTIME you have an engine failure. Probably the same outcome too.

[Chupacabra]

Run it, have engine failure, Warranty wont cover due to oil not meeting manufacturer\'s spec, Now you have to prove to E.O.M. that their oil is bad(ha!) and caused failure, wait 3 years maybe get some money if you are lucky. In the meantime you pay $4500. for engine repair. Sure I want to use that stuff!:headbang:

Bullshit. When I went to Toyota....they have a whole entire shelf full of Mobil 1 5-30 and that is what they use when a customer requires synthetic oil. There is no way that if there were an engine failure, they would not honor the warranty due to the use of Mobil 1. They can only check to see the viscosity is correct and the level is correct.

[TheSilkySmooth]

Bullshit. When I went to Toyota....they have a whole entire shelf full of Mobil 1 5-30 and that is what they use when a customer requires synthetic oil. There is no way that if there were an engine failure, they would not honor the warranty due to the use of Mobil 1. They can only check to see the viscosity is correct and the level is correct. The Center Having and selling M1 is irrelevant to this argument, the centere is UNAWARE of the oil being out of specification as are 99.999% of drivers and 90% service managers. If the oil is at fault, the Oil MFG will have to pay and there may be BIG delays in recuping uyour losses. Naturally, Toyota WOULD have to prove that the oil was out of spec and not you, but if they are ShArKs they may give you the ould "run around" if you are ill informed and dont have a lawyer standing next to you. Now, typ they would only perform a viscosity at temp and TBN to certify the oil as OK. But if there is "proof" out there that M1 does not meet sl/sm then Toyota has the upper hand and they can deny warranty claim - IF it is proven a given MFG run of that the oil is NFG. In our world, I would hope MY toyota service centre would just fix the motor if the oil level is good and I have proof of last OC.
ps: I would also not expect to see any failures with this sequence iva test being not met. You may just see some higher wear numbers thru the OCI, if any.

-Papa

[PetersRedYaris]

Wow, some of you actually think your engine is going to sustain damage due to this? Anyone who thinks their engine is going to crap out due to Mobile 1 use is crazy. I don't care if a bad batch got out onto store shelves, it's a Toyota and can handle it. Use a different oil next change if it makes you feel better, but your Yaris is fine in the meantime...

[Chupacabra]

Wow, some of you actually think your engine is going to sustain damage due to this? Anyone who thinks their engine is going to crap out due to Mobile 1 use is crazy. I don't care if a bad batch got out onto store shelves, it's a Toyota and can handle it. Use a different oil next change if it makes you feel better, but your Yaris is fine in the meantime...


I don't think that but SilkySmooth was saying that the dealer might deny your warranty due to the usage of M1 if one were to walk in with a blown motor which is definitely not the case.

[TheSilkySmooth]

I don't think that but SilkySmooth was saying that the dealer might deny your warranty due to the usage of M1 if one were to walk in with a blown motor which is definitely not the case.

I think it all depends on you Service managers temperment at the time - but they typically would have to call in a zone rep to approve. Andyotas arent magic and repeal the laws of material science - in fact 1nzfe utilise a camshaft that is VERY prone to wear in this exact circumstance - cold start wear - just like the Nissan test engine used in the sequence iva test. This whole thing Smacks of the Quakerstate disaster a decade or so ago, though for porbably differing circumstance. YOUR ENGINE MAY NOT FAIL - BUT YOU ARE RISKING A CAM REPLACEMENT POST-WARRANTY FOR A CONSIERABLE OUT OF POCKET CASH OUTLAY. I you wish to argue my points - lets talk about the seq iva a test that M1 fails to pass and go on form there. You cannot argue that a significant sample of M1 failed over a 2 year period - Ashland wouldnt state this if it could not be backe d by hard data. They would be risking losing their Co to the GIANT EOM. - Papa

[TheSilkySmooth]

I don't think that but SilkySmooth was saying that the dealer might deny your warranty due to the usage of M1 if one were to walk in with a blown motor which is definitely not the case.

Call your service manager and ask him/her; I intend to do this just to hear if they have received a bulletin on this issue - or have read this is an industrial publication. You wont read it in Road and Track or Motor trend they are in bed with the advertisers.

[TheSilkySmooth]

I don't think that but SilkySmooth was saying that the dealer might deny your warranty due to the usage of M1 if one were to walk in with a blown motor which is definitely not the case.
So if I follow your argument - that the oil you install does not have to meet Sl/Sm ILSAC GF3/4, then I can use John Deere 5w-30 SJ? Why deos my oil cap say: USE 5W-30 API SL APPROVED OIL?

[auxmike]

This stuff gives me a headache.....:frown:
I never gave this a thought ever on any of the cars I used to drive and they were all fine. Bought the PepBoys house brand for years.....
My Dad gets the synth change at the Toyo dealer on the '04 Tacoma and the '06 Corolla, and I believe it IS M1. They give him a reciept so it IS warr. covered if something goes wrong....
Face it, this engine sounds screwed up straight off the lot with that scary idle the sounds like bad valves. Notice how many people ask the same ? about the engine sound?:iono:
I'm hoping since these cars are made in JAPAN that the engines might be a bit closer to spec. tolerances. As for turning into a rust bucket in the future, who knows!

[Altitude]

Surprise! An 'independant' study commissioned and paid for by Valvoline proves their oil is better! Wow, shocking!

[TheSilkySmooth]

Surprise! An 'independant' study commissioned and paid for by Valvoline proves their oil is better! Wow, shocking!

Oh, another EOM stooge enters the argument, He he. You Men in Silver are everywhere. LOOK OUT! OK. Valvoline states the MOBIL 1 5W-30, available (where'd it go??) on the shelves, does not meet API SM/SL specification on samples submitted to their own lab and independent lab. NO ONE can argue this point. Now, this results from a pissing contest EOM started: Mobil said their oil was the best, Valvoline said their oil was better, Mobil said prove it, and along the way M1 was found to be deficient. Tough Cookie - take your lumps. I am a fan of NEITHER. The fist time i got improperly formulated oil it came out of a Valvioline bottle. Poured like kerosene and smelled the same.

[TheSilkySmooth]

[QUOTE=auxmike;216723]This stuff gives me a headache.....:frown:
My Dad gets the synth change at the Toyo dealer on the '04 Tacoma and the '06 Corolla, and I believe it IS M1. They give him a reciept so it IS warr. covered if something goes wrong....
QUOTE]Ha ha, NOPE! Dealer changes the oil, you change the oil , doesn’t matter to Toyota regional.. MOBIL is at fault and the ball would be in their court IF the oil was found to be deficient and caused the failure. And YOU are stuck in the middle, pal. Don’t be naive. Toyota won’t take the blame for it or pay the bill. Mobil1 is not a Toyota warranteed part. Call you dealer.

[Altitude]

EOM stooge? I don't give a crap whose oil is better. I treat most all studies with suspicion - especially those where the competition pays someone else to test the other's product. The only ones worth paying attention to are those performed by people with no skin in the game.

Money talks - that's all this is - and it's how the world works.

Companies that perform a service for a fee are far more likely to come out in favor of the servicee's desired result. Why? Because if they want to stay in business and get future business from a given company they will give positive results. It wouldn't make sense to keep paying a company that says your product is crap.

[TheSilkySmooth]

EOM stooge? I don't give a crap whose oil is better. I treat most all studies with suspicion - especially those where the competition pays someone else to test the other's product. The only ones worth paying attention to are those performed by people with no skin in the game.

Money talks - that's all this is - and it's how the world works.

Companies that perform a service for a fee are far more likely to come out in favor of the servicee's desired result. Why? Because if they want to stay in business and get future business from a given company they will give positive results. It wouldn't make sense to keep paying a company that says your product is crap. I understand this have worked for an ISO 9001 certifications, and having a house pre-purchase "inspected". Now, Do you believe the samples Failed this "expensive" sequence iva test or they are lying outright? I believe that the product sampled DID fail. Its a tough test. I think Ashland had the independent lab VERIFIY the result they found in their own lab. Ashland has in-house capabilities to perform a number these API/ ISLAC tests.

[auxmike]

"I understand this have worked for an ISO 9001 certifications, and having a house pre-purchase "inspected". "

Huh?:bonk::moon:

[SilverGlow]

Run it, have engine failure, Warranty wont cover due to oil not meeting manufacturer\'s spec, Now you have to prove to E.O.M. that their oil is bad(ha!) and caused failure, wait 3 years maybe get some money if you are lucky. In the meantime you pay $4500. for engine repair. Sure I want to use that stuff!:headbang:

You continue to bolding speak lies, nonesense, and your bravado proves your ignorance.

Using EP will not cause engine failure. It has never caused engine failure. It is too bad that there are many newbies to cars that could read your BS and think it is fact. I just hope that most of the people reading your flippant sarcastic comments see past your know-it-all attitude and lack of knowledge.

And I'm not even a M1 EP user....

[auxmike]

I swear this must be "Grumpy in NH".
What ever happend to him?
Yeah, don't feed the trolls, boys.:middlefinger::tweetz:

[1stToyota]

You continue to bolding speak lies, nonesense, and your bravado proves your ignorance.

Using EP will not cause engine failure. It has never caused engine failure. It is too bad that there are many newbies to cars that could read your BS and think it is fact. I just hope that most of the people reading your flippant sarcastic comments see past your know-it-all attitude and lack of knowledge.

And I'm not even a M1 EP user....

You got pretty close to speaking that same lie again. Engine failed due to an oil related issue in a late model chevy pickup that used nothing but M1, Mr know-it-all. :tongue:

[TheSilkySmooth]

You continue to bolding speak lies, nonesense, and your bravado proves your ignorance.

Using EP will not cause engine failure. It has never caused engine failure. It is too bad that there are many newbies to cars that could read your BS and think it is fact. I just hope that most of the people reading your flippant sarcastic comments see past your know-it-all attitude and lack of knowledge.

And I'm not even a M1 EP user.... I would respond, but you are too ignorant to formulate an argument using logic. So have a Bad day:smile:

[TheSilkySmooth]

"I understand this have worked for an ISO 9001 certifications, and having a house pre-purchase "inspected". "

Huh?:bonk::moon: Hey there's nothing really bad about being a moron. Its just your geneology and upbringing - It's not your fault Mr . Mikey :smile:

[TheSilkySmooth]

MODERATER:
Close this thread - It been overtaken by haters who are not speaking to point and are just casting aspersions.

[gid]

someone got up and out the wrong side of their YARIS this morning . :wink:

[TheSilkySmooth]

someone got up and out the wrong side of their YARIS this morning . :wink: Yeah, Silverglow and Auxmike - I'm not going to tolerate this kind of verbal abuse from a couple illogical dolts. How 'bout discussing the argument points instead of going on the personal attack? I guess they have no logical argument. :iono:

[gid]

Yeah, Silverglow and Auxmike - I'm not going to tolerate this kind of verbal abuse from a couple illogical dolts. How 'bout discussing the argument points instead of going on the personal attack? I guess they have no logical argument. :iono: I was referring to you . You insulted me as well as of lately . What's up with the attacks ? :thumbdown:

[Altitude]

Silky(s) - no need to get all huffy about it. Just read that article you posted carefully.. Notice anything peculiar? Hint: Marketers...

The bottom line is that someone using Mobil 1, Valvoline or any other oil and who also does regular oil changes and doesn't beat the crap out of the car will be able to drive it until the thing falls apart. Who cares if my 200K engine has slightly more wear than someone else's 200k engine. The thing has served its purpose and it's time to get a new car!

And please... like you didn't know your post would stir things up?

[1stToyota]

Silky(s) - no need to get all huffy about it. Just read that article you posted carefully.. Notice anything peculiar? Hint: Marketers...

The bottom line is that someone using Mobil 1, Valvoline or any other oil and who also does regular oil changes and doesn't beat the crap out of the car will be able to drive it until the thing falls apart. Who cares if my 200K engine has slightly more wear than someone else's 200k engine. The thing has served its purpose and it's time to get a new car!

And please... like you didn't know your post would stir things up?

I probably should keep my nose out of it, but if you want to talk about stirring things up that'd be Silk's little fanboi Silver. Probably 70%-80% of his postings is to jump on Silk's postings with personal insults, the rest being reserved to telling Yaris owners to run 0w-20 in their cars, eventho' the Toyota TSB absolutely states that 0w-20 isn't to be used in the Yaris. That's bad and potentially very costly advice he's handing out. I don't have any problems with Silky.

[auxmike]

Hey there's nothing really bad about being a moron. Its just your geneology and upbringing - It's not your fault Mr . Mikey :smile:

...sticks and stones.......
BTW, I'm not a moron.
You've done quite well with no help showing everybody just what kinda chap you are.
Take it easy.....:tweetz:

[auxmike]

MODERATER:
Close this thread - It been overtaken by haters who are not speaking to point and are just casting aspersions.

I agree. It appears to have been taken over by name callers too.....:frown:

[auxmike]

Yeah, Silverglow and Auxmike - I'm not going to tolerate this kind of verbal abuse from a couple illogical dolts. How 'bout discussing the argument points instead of going on the personal attack? I guess they have no logical argument. :iono:


Ah, more name calling. Tisk tisk lad.......

[auxmike]

I would respond, but you are too ignorant to formulate an argument using logic. So have a Bad day:smile:

...and the beat goes on......
:help:

[auxmike]

Oh, another EOM stooge enters the argument, He he.

Stooge?
Gee, I feel cheated, I only got the "moron" moniker.
Cheers mate!

[Altitude]

I probably should keep my nose out of it, but if you want to talk about stirring things up that'd be Silk's little fanboi Silver. Probably 70%-80% of his postings is to jump on Silk's postings with personal insults, the rest being reserved to telling Yaris owners to run 0w-20 in their cars, eventho' the Toyota TSB absolutely states that 0w-20 isn't to be used in the Yaris. That's bad and potentially very costly advice he's handing out. I don't have any problems with Silky.

I have no problem with Silk either - I find their (there is more than one person using that account right?) posts mostly amusing.

BTW - is your avatar the same woman in your sig and an actress? I don't know who she is but you appear to be a fan.

[jambo101]

MODERATER:
Close this thread - It been overtaken by haters who are not speaking to point and are just casting aspersions.
Why would you want the moderators to do that?looks to me like you are milking this topic for lots of post counts,hey why not open up a new thread for every word? that way you'll really add em up fast.

[auxmike]

Why would you want the moderators to do that?looks to me like you are milking this topic for lots of post counts,hey why not open up a new thread for every word? that way you'll really add em up fast.

:bellyroll::bow:

[jambo101]

To be fair at least the contents your posts were informative and auto related until post 46 where it went the way of most topics.

[1stToyota]

I have no problem with Silk either - I find their (there is more than one person using that account right?) posts mostly amusing.

BTW - is your avatar the same woman in your sig and an actress? I don't know who she is but you appear to be a fan.

Yeah, I'm a **Follows' follower** :wub:
Megan Follows, a great actress from Canada!

[jambo101]

Guess some of the younger crowd missed Anne of Green Gables,http://dailymoxie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/anne2.jpg

[TheSilkySmooth]

I was referring to you . You insulted me as well as of lately . What's up with the attacks ? :thumbdown: What's the post where I've gone off - was it about the "analysis" thing - or sorry, that was supposed to be a very light jab. I was trying to fiqure out what the "grammar police" were referring to in that thread and thinking through it. Not meant to be personal - I apologize publicly. I guess my split personality has a bad side:brokenheart: Sorry again.:redface:
BTW: I do freely and without bias give my thought on any technical or science based subjects - and hopefully treat the "proper folk" in a polite manner along the way. Some individual cannot stand any criticism of their "TEAM" stuff, even with cold facts presented.

- G.I.NH

[gid]

thanks , you do give good advice most of the time :wink: .

[1stToyota]

Guess some of the younger crowd missed Anne of Green Gables,http://dailymoxie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/anne2.jpg

That's the first thing I saw her in, latest was The Christmas Child, but I had to leave and never saw the ending. I probably liked her best in Under The Piano, a role that she only had about a week to prepare for. :clap:

[ChinoCharles]

This just in! We can't have an adult discussion about motor oil on this forum! :laugh:

Closed!