Previous gen Echo shocks on current gen Yaris

[kngrsll]

I have researched this quite a bit, and with no definitive answer. I have a 2007 Toyota Yaris and i really want Koni's for it. With no progress in site, i have looked into the topic again. I came across a site on this forum with toyota part numbers: http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/ so after looking on there, i noticed that quite a few parts are identical, for example the nut that attaches to the strut, the knuckle that the lower bracket of the strut attaches to is identical, leading me to believe that they are nearly the same. The major difference is the sway bar mount. The sway bar mount on the yaris is a tab welded to the strut body. Thus that is the problem that must be a addressed.

The rear is the same deal, the rear upper nut is the same, and the beam frame thing is identical part number. This leads me to believe that they should mat up pretty well, minus the sway bar issue.

So what is left is deciding how to sort out the sway bar issue, which should be as easy as having a machine shop welding on a tab for you to mount the sway bar endlink. If anyone else had ideas or inputs, or sees a flaw in my logic, let me know. Also, has anyone ACTUALLY tried using an echo shock on a yaris? ive heard alot of maybes, but no one really seems certain. Anyways, i have ordered a set of Koni's for the previous gen Echo, and I am going to give it a shot. So wish me luck, i hope this works out! But it may be more complicated that i expected, but lets hope not.

Thanks for your input!

Ken

[largeorangefont]

What are you going to do about the swaybar? You don't want to be welding to the strut body. I haven't even looked under the car lately, but perhaps a speedway style swaybar could work and endlink mounts could be welded to the arms? Or you could weld a bracket on to the arms to accept a short endlink.

You reasoning seems sound, and it is worth a shot. Sounds like your biggest concern (aside from the front sway bar) will be the compressed and extended lengths of the dampers, but I would imagine they are similar.

[kngrsll]

yeah, you bring up some of the concerns i had. i was concerned about welding onto the strut body, so perhaps instead, i could go down from the sprint seat instead? or like you said, relocate the second link mount to the A arm. Once i get the dampers and make sure the rest of it fits, i will tackle the sway bar problem. Thanks for the ideas though, the more the better.

[thebarber]

all that for adjustable shocks? seems like a lot of work...

[Tamago]

the stock swaybar endlinks are super long.. i don't see why you couldn't modify your LCA's to mount the sway from below instead of off the strut.

the $$ spent and time and headaches though.. and you could probably just keep an eye out for someone selling coilovers used..

[mikenacarato]

welding onto the strut body is fine as long as you know what your doing. i welded a swaybar tab onto my bilstein shocks on my old 3 series bmw so i could use a M3 swaybar, no problems at all.

[kngrsll]

the stock swaybar endlinks are super long.. i don't see why you couldn't modify your LCA's to mount the sway from below instead of off the strut.


i think this is what im leaning towards...

[kngrsll]

welding onto the strut body is fine as long as you know what your doing. i welded a swaybar tab onto my bilstein shocks on my old 3 series bmw so i could use a M3 swaybar, no problems at all.

yeah? this was my original idea... I will probably go to a machine shop and have them take a look and see what they think. do you have any pics or thoughts you may want to share??

[kngrsll]

all that for adjustable shocks? seems like a lot of work...

not so much the adjustability, but superior valving and the capacity to be rebuilt to different specs. most off the shelf dampers have garbage for valving.

[rob323]

I have a stack of echo shocks lying around, if you need any dimensions, let me know.

[kngrsll]

Well, i got a hold of some Echo shocks and struts. I unbolted my stock components to see if they would fit, and they WILL NOT. So we can finally rule that out. I was majorly bummed because that would have really opened some new products open up for us.

Anyways, if anyone is intrested in specifics, the lower rear bolt is different. The stock yaris is very small, and the Echo mounts on a larger stud. The front strut holes are too far apart on the Echo. Other than that, both upper mounts look like they would work (but that may be a different story) and the strut spring perch look compatible.

Thought you guys might want to know.

[Loren]

Photos would be helpful here. But, I'm not hearing anything that would make it impossible to fit.

In the rear, you say that the Echo uses a larger lower bolt. That can be easily fixed with a bushing to fit the smaller Yaris bolt to the Echo shock.

In the front, use the Yaris upper mount. If the shock shaft diameter is larger, can the upper mount hole be enlarged to fit it?

The front lower mounts, as long as they fit around the hub assemblies, shouldn't be a problem. Fix the too-wide bolt spacing by redrilling the lower hole.

Unless I'm missing something, it sounds doable with some very minor modifications.

[kngrsll]

yeah, i was thinking about that. What i was thinking in the rear was either a sleeve around the bolt, or enlarge the actual bolt hole on the car. The later would make using a stock yaris shock impossible though, so maybe not a great idea.

As for the front, the distance i am talking about is the holes on the lower bracket. They are about a half to a full inch farther apart. Everything on the top looks like it will work.

What i really need to do is do a comparison of the actual yaris shock off the car, but that means i have to pull mine off, figure out what modifications need to be done, and then put it all back together. and then test fit the new parts to see how it turns out.

So anyone got any stock shocks they want to donate?? :D

maybe i shouldnt give up on it quite yet...

[Tamago]

Photos would be helpful here. But, I'm not hearing anything that would make it impossible to fit.

In the rear, you say that the Echo uses a larger lower bolt. That can be easily fixed with a bushing to fit the smaller Yaris bolt to the Echo shock.

In the front, use the Yaris upper mount. If the shock shaft diameter is larger, can the upper mount hole be enlarged to fit it?

The front lower mounts, as long as they fit around the hub assemblies, shouldn't be a problem. Fix the too-wide bolt spacing by redrilling the lower hole.

Unless I'm missing something, it sounds doable with some very minor modifications.



couple problems with front upper

yaris has socket head inside the top of the strut rod
echo(and most other struts that have a 3bolt mount) has flatsided portions that the spring top hat fits into to keep it from rotating. also the bearing surfaces are different between the two shocks. the yaris upper mounts would bind up if used with echo shocks

how much "off" are the lower bolt holes between the echo and yaris?


next question...

why are we sticking to toyota here? anyone thought about maybe a mazda strut?

[Loren]

yeah, i was thinking about that. What i was thinking in the rear was either a sleeve around the bolt, or enlarge the actual bolt hole on the car. The later would make using a stock yaris shock impossible though, so maybe not a great idea.
Yeah, enlarging the hole on the car would be the easiest thing to do, but making permanent mods to non-removable parts of the car should always be the last resort.

As for the front, the distance i am talking about is the holes on the lower bracket. They are about a half to a full inch farther apart. Everything on the top looks like it will work.
That's what I thought you meant. Just drill a hole in the appropriate place. (slot it for camber while you're at it!)
What i really need to do is do a comparison of the actual yaris shock off the car, but that means i have to pull mine off, figure out what modifications need to be done, and then put it all back together. and then test fit the new parts to see how it turns out.

So anyone got any stock shocks they want to donate?? :D

maybe i shouldnt give up on it quite yet...
I have stock shocks on the shelf in the garage that I could take pictures and measurements of... but I'm keeping them in case I need to return the car to stock.

[kngrsll]

Yeah, enlarging the hole on the car would be the easiest thing to do, but making permanent mods to non-removable parts of the car should always be the last resort.


That's what I thought you meant. Just drill a hole in the appropriate place. (slot it for camber while you're at it!)

I have stock shocks on the shelf in the garage that I could take pictures and measurements of... but I'm keeping them in case I need to return the car to stock.

Would you mind taking picture of the upper strut? and how about a measurement of the bolt holes in the lower bracket. I will get some pics of the upper mount and lower bracket here as well. Thanks!

[kngrsll]

couple problems with front upper

yaris has socket head inside the top of the strut rod
echo(and most other struts that have a 3bolt mount) has flatsided portions that the spring top hat fits into to keep it from rotating. also the bearing surfaces are different between the two shocks. the yaris upper mounts would bind up if used with echo shocks

how much "off" are the lower bolt holes between the echo and yaris?


next question...

why are we sticking to toyota here? anyone thought about maybe a mazda strut?

yea, i had not thought of that. i figured i could just swap the upper mount on and it would not be a big deal. The echo shocks dont have a flatside on the strut though, so perhaps that wont be an issue.

i just found out that echo shocks fit xA and xB, i was not aware of that...

[kngrsll]

ok here are the pics... i see what you mean about the slotting, there is a really thin spot with notching. now i need to get the tape measure out :p

[Tamago]

i just found out that echo shocks fit xA and xB, i was not aware of that...

yes they do!


back to other questions.. are there any other cars that utilize top 1bolt setups?

VW golf !

http://www.bildon.com/catalog/Admin/photos/large/A1_strut.jpg


Golf III that is ( 1994 or so)

[kngrsll]

yes they do!


back to other questions.. are there any other cars that utilize top 1bolt setups?

VW golf !

http://www.bildon.com/catalog/Admin/photos/large/A1_strut.jpg


Golf III that is ( 1994 or so)

never thought of that... what makes you think the lower mount will work? is there some sort of universal size i dont know about??

[Tamago]

never thought of that... what makes you think the lower mount will work? is there some sort of universal size i dont know about??

nothign makes me think it will work. but there will be 100X more options for a golfIII than a toyota echo (that's not 1bolt upper anyway)

modification is modification

and since a golfIII is heavier than a yaris, you'll be starting out with stiffer valving to begin with. which is FTW

[kngrsll]

nothign makes me think it will work. but there will be 100X more options for a golfIII than a toyota echo (that's not 1bolt upper anyway)

modification is modification

and since a golfIII is heavier than a yaris, you'll be starting out with stiffer valving to begin with. which is FTW

ok, i see your point... want to buy some koni's? LOL

[Tamago]

ok, i see your point...

i bet if you call tire rack they'd be kind enough to give you dimensions of the lower bolt holes c/c for the golfIII

also it looks like the yaris "leans" more (bolt holes)

if you get the shocks i'm willing to weld/modify the brackets to fit a yaris.

[kngrsll]

i bet if you call tire rack they'd be kind enough to give you dimensions of the lower bolt holes c/c for the golfIII

also it looks like the yaris "leans" more (bolt holes)

if you get the shocks i'm willing to weld/modify the brackets to fit a yaris.

awesome, thats really nice of you... i will do some more research and get back to you. id rather figure out how to get these konis on though since i already have them.

[Tamago]

awesome, thats really nice of you... i will do some more research and get back to you. id rather figure out how to get these konis on though since i already have them.

perhaps a washer on top of the strut rod to protect the yaris bearing from those flat sides?

[kngrsll]

perhaps a washer on top of the strut rod to protect the yaris bearing from those flat sides?

good thinking... it will be interesting to see the pics loren posts.

[Tamago]

good thinking... it will be interesting to see the pics loren posts.

next yaris i take apart i'll take dimensions and pix.

south florida owners! let me take your car apart!!!

[Loren]

good thinking... it will be interesting to see the pics loren posts.
Um... I offered to take pictures and measurements, but nobody ever said that they wanted me to do so. :)

What do you need photos of exactly?

[kngrsll]

Um... I offered to take pictures and measurements, but nobody ever said that they wanted me to do so. :)

What do you need photos of exactly?

oh, sorry mate lol... yeah, do you think you could do that? did you see my pics? could you take one of the lower bracket like that? also one of the top of the strut mount? Could you also measure the distance between the bolt holes in the lower mount? I know thats alot, sorry :( Thanks again!

[Tamago]

oh, sorry mate lol... yeah, do you think you could do that? did you see my pics? could you take one of the lower bracket like that? also one of the top of the strut mount? Could you also measure the distance between the bolt holes in the lower mount? I know thats alot, sorry :( Thanks again!

also, measure over from the strut body to the centerline of each hole, upper and lower.. it'll make fabbing the new brackets much better (giving the "triangle" dimension to allow for proper camber)

[Loren]

My upper mounts are on the car! I can take photos of a front strut, though. Will get out to the garage with the camera in a little bit.

[33OH]

FYI: stock Yaris shocks for sale if it helps anything with this: http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11684

[Loren]

Okay, I got some critical measurements and a couple photos. All data and photos are in the attached PDF. I think in inches, but use mm when I want to be precise, so bear with me...

Overall length of the shock body is about 14". From center of upper hub mounting bolt to top of shock is about 10-7/8". From center of upper hub mounting bolt to center of spring perch is about 7-1/2".

Hub mounting holes are about 58-59mm center-to-center, and about 45mm from the center of the strut body. The distance between the two mounting surfaces (the thickness of the hub mounting flange) is about 29mm. The strut body is 50mm OD.

The full exposed shaft length is 9-7/16" extended, less 1-7/16" for the threaded portion, so 8" from the top of the body to the bottom of the upper mount. The shaft compresses a total of 6.5" from 8" to about 1.5". The bump stop measures 3-9/16" free, and estimated 2-1/2" fully compressed.

All of that means that the bump stop keeps the shock from compressing it's last inch of travel (to keep it from self-destructing when it bottoms out), and the actual full travel of the shock as fitted is 5.5" (8" full-length minus 2.5" compressed bump stop). The car likely rests right in the middle of that travel at rest, leaving 2.75" of compression travel, the last inch of which is compressing the bump stops. (and people wonder why I tell them not to fit "2-inch drop" springs on the car!)

The threaded portion of the shaft is 12mm, which should be standard for Koni. There are no slots or grooves in the threaded part of the shaft, so if you get a Koni that is otherwise correct, with a 12mm shaft that is at least 1-7/16" long, it should fit the stock upper mount just fine.

[kngrsll]

Awesome! I had a long day in the OR today, so i will get some measurements tomorrow. Thanks alot! lets see if we can get this done :D