BailOut's Interview: Conservation in 2009 and Beyond

[ChinoCharles]

Brian Morris is certainly one of the more unorthodox Yaris owners in the country. While the online subcompact community clamors about the latest supercharger or one of a gaggle of other ways to squeeze every available horse out of our displacement-challenged engines, Brian is somewhere coasting with his car turned off. He belongs to an up-and-coming (and often misunderstood) niche in the world of automotive enthusiasts, one that places emphasis on economy over ego and MPG over Max HP. We now know these men and women to be Hypermilers, intent on making a gallon of gas go further than anyone imagined possible. However, Brian's involvement in the Hypermiling community is symptomatic of a larger ideology, and a timely one at that. As the United States is drowning in its own energy dependencies, there are people out there waking up and realizing their consumption affects more than just this month's bills. Brian is one of those people. I wanted to sit down and pick his brain a bit about what he stands for in hopes that we could all take a lesson from it. His battle is a noble one, but it is admittedly against the grain of societal norms. It takes courage, discipline, and a spirit of individuality that few possess.


Charles: Hello Brian.

Brian: Hello.

Charles: First of all, tell me how your personal fight against energy dependency began. Was there a breaking point or was it a gradual process?

Brian: It was a breaking point. It was the winter of 1991 and I was catching a ride back from the front lines of Operation Desert Storm on a truck as a cease fire had been called. One fellow remarked that it was over and he still didn't know why we were there. We had been shown many facets of the reasoning for our involvement in that conflict but none of them had ever made any sense. On the morning we'd first been sent there the daily reports showed 27 other "hot spots" around the world. Why was Kuwait special? One of the senior fellows answered, "We're here for the oil, dumbass. Plain and simple." That hit me like a ton of bricks as I realized that not only was he correct, but that we had just lost and killed people for no purpose other than continued access to oil.

Charles: Was that the end of active duty in your life? How did that experience affect your perception of the civilian world here at home?

Brian: That was not the end of my active duty (I went on to serve 5 more years) but that was the beginning of the end of it. My perception of the civilian world changed dramatically at that time because I realized that it's not just a President that sends us to war, but the entirety of Congress. Along with senior cabinet officials every one of those folks was totally on board with Gulf War 1. They all understood that oil is a critical component of the American way of life and they were willing to sacrifice other people's sons to keep their hands on it. That also got me to thinking about how we in the developed world live, how we use things, why oil is so important to us, etc.

Charles: What was the first step in your lifestyle change? Can you pick one thing?

Brian: I was exposed to lots of environmental issues as a child and saw some pretty horrible environmental things during my time in the military and while living in Texas but I always managed to think that it was someone else's problem. I think the first step in my lifestyle change came the day that I moved to Reno, NV and found recycle bins on my door step. They had been dropped off by the local waste management company when we opened an account with them. There was even a refrigerator magnet with the pickup schedule included. This was the first time I'd ever been anywhere where something like recycling was embraced.

Charles: Let’s skip ahead for a moment... September 11th, 2001. Did that day serve to strengthen your resolve, and if so to what degree? Was there anything you did differently on September 12th?

Brian: First let me say that my views of 9/11 are not in line with the mainstream perceptions. The first thought that entered my mind on 9/11 was "Well, that's what we get for playing in the sandbox, and for continually pushing people around. Someone finally pushed back.." Yes, it did help to steel my resolve some more but only a little. I knew they weren't upset with us just because we are addicted to oil, but also because of the way that we go about our foreign policies.

Charles: With your experience in the Gulf region, how sick are you now? Haha! It seems our involvement in the region has only deepened.

Brian: Let's keep it simple. I can sum up all of my feelings about that in one sentence: I feel that GWB is the worst President in my lifetime so far, and that he has done nearly irreparable harm to the image of our country and the way the world interacts with us.

Charles: I appreciate your concision. :laugh: Now, back to energy… When did you first hear the term "Hypermiling?" What spurred your involvement in that community, and how has the Yaris played a role in that involvement?

Brian: I got a new job that required commuting over 4,500 vertical feet each day. The car that I had been driving had done decently on the plains of Texas but was aging doing horribly on mileage in the mountains. I searched on-line for some tips on fuel economy but all I could find was the garden variety stuff about car maintenance and tire pressure. In that time Mother Jones magazine ran an article on the fellow that started the hypermiling movement, Wayne Gerdes, and it was linked to a message board I followed. I read that article and it led me to CleanMPG.com (http://cleanmpg.com/) and it was exactly what I had been looking for. It is a community of folks that are totally dedicated to the pursuit of fuel economy. Also in that time my last vehicle began to become costly to keep on the road due to mechanical repairs so I began researching my next car. I knew I wanted something fuel efficient and when I stumbled across the Yaris it not only fit that bill but it was cheap, good looking, and Toyota's reliability is something nice to have when you commute a 2-lane mountain road that has no shoulder for much of it. I also verified ahead of time that most of the hypermiling techniques would work with the Yaris (which they do, especially with the manual transmission).

Charles: Yes. I remember vividly when you broke the DFCO (http://yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4248) feature to the masses. I'm certain you have your ear to the ground on things like that. What is on the horizon? Or, what technology out of all of the others do you wish we had right now? Electric, Hydrogen, Hybrids... so much to choose from, but it is so hard to tell what is viable.

Brian: Hybrids impress me only as a stepping stone to better things. Hydrogen will never happen except possibly as a slow-charged range extender on an electric vehicle as it takes 3 times more energy to get the hydrogen gas from water than you get back when you burn it. The future is electrics. We should have been there in the 1970's and could have been there in the 1990's (reference "Who Killed the Electric Car?") but it is finally happening. The Asian manufacturers, more likely Chinese than Japanese, will bring them to us.

Charles: So where is your Tesla Roadster? :biggrin:

Brian: I have it parked in the garage of my McMansion. :laugh:

Charles: :bellyroll: OK, back to seriousness... the last thing I want to touch on is the relationship between your fight against energy dependency and personal choices you make for yourself. We know you as someone that eats healthy, exercises and all that good stuff. To what extent do you think your involvement in Hypermiling is a complement to your healthy lifestyle, or do the two operate somewhat independently?

Brian: To me they are all part of the same lifestyle. It's all about "The 3 Rs" - Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. What good is it for me to buy all my food when I can grow some? Why would I buy a new <x> when the old once will still be serviceable with a little work, why would I conserve at home and not on the road, etc. I think the best way to explain it is that I treat life with a holistic view and yearn for a balance within myself. To me that's being *in* the world instead of just on it.

Charles: Finally, tell me a bit about what it has been like socially to live this lifestyle. Have your friends and family been receptive? Your wife supportive? What was the hardest part of making the change?

Brian: People (including friends and family) are a little skeptical at first but they usually come around. My wife offered some resistance at first but once you understand the entire dust-to-cradle loops living smarter, and therefore more conservatively, is simply logical. Now she's turning into an ecoist as well.

The hardest part for me was... well, it is difficult to explain as it was a combination of emotions. In its simplest form it was dealing with the guilt once I realized that I had lived so wrongly for the first 35 years of my life. So much waste, so much antipathy, so much disregard for the future - not only for the planet but for my own body. It can be difficult to admit when you are wrong about even a little thing, but admitting to a huge and lengthy string of errors can be downright sad. I had to work through those negative emotions and learn how to question myself, and more importantly how to be honest with myself about who I am and who I want to be, and how I want to leave my mark on the world.

Charles: So do you think you've found your place now?

Brian: I have found my place within conservation but I am still working to change parts of myself that I think need it. I never want to be the guy that says, "Well, that's just the way I am." If there is room for improvement then change is necessary.


Thanks again to Brian for taking some time to speak with me. I sincerely hope that as time goes on we can learn something from people like him. They are all around us. Society is conforming to scarcity, as it always has and as it always will. Those that don't will inevitably fall. We can all do our part to help, whether it be one step at a time or in a drastic epiphany of change and adaptation. Whatever your favorite flavor of progress may be, tap into it this year. Do something more. Now is the time!

[Bob_VT]

Brian: That was not the end of my active duty (I went on to serve 5 more years) but that was the beginning of the end of it. My perception of the civilian world changed dramatically at that time because I realized that it's not just a President that sends us to war, but the entirety of Congress. Along with senior cabinet officials every one of those folks was totally on board with Gulf War 1. They all understood that oil is a critical component of the American way of life and they were willing to sacrifice other people's sons to keep their hands on it. That also got me to thinking about how we in the developed world live, how we use things, why oil is so important to us, etc.

True. The President did not act alone.

Brian: Let's keep it simple. I can sum up all of my feelings about that in one sentence: I feel that GWB is the worst President in my lifetime so far, and that he has done nearly irreparable harm to the image of our country and the way the world interacts with us.

So President Bush did all that in less than 9 months to cause the 9/11 attack?

Good write-up with a touch of a political slant.

[ChinoCharles]

To deny that politics plays a part in the conservation movement would be irresponsible, no matter what side of the fence you call home. It is all connected, but I hope the interview didn't feel focused on it. Rather, I wanted to brush against it on the way to bigger ideas.

[Bob_VT]

Where's the pick up truck and the boat with the sterndrive? Those were not an efficient duo. I have no sympathy for people who drive 27 miles to and from work..... that is freedom of choice.

Have Brian post his award for conservation that he reveived (Lost in the hack :( ) and I think that speaks highly of him.

Amazing that we can manage to point a finger at President Bush and blame it on oil! OMG The first Gulf War was in 1991 that's 18 years ago we were involved and to relate it to President GWB.......

I will tell you who I have the absolute highest regard for..... the military that participated and anyone who was there or is there.

[talnlnky]

Amazing that we can manage to point a finger at President Bush and blame it on oil! OMG The first Gulf War was in 1991 that's 18 years ago we were involved and to relate it to President GWB.......


you forget the 80's.... you don't have to send thousands of troops to be in a war.

[SilverGlow]

I generally appreciate the interview with Brian. However parts of his responses strike me as disingenuous, to be sure:

"The hardest part for me was... well, it is difficult to explain as it was a combination of emotions. In its simplest form it was dealing with the guilt once I realized that I had lived so wrongly for the first 35 years of my life. So much waste, so much antipathy, so much disregard for the future - not only for the planet but for my own body. It can be difficult to admit when you are wrong about even a little thing, but admitting to a huge and lengthy string of errors can be downright sad. I had to work through those negative emotions and learn how to question myself, and more importantly how to be honest with myself about who I am and who I want to be, and how I want to leave my mark on the world."

Not only are these thoughts unreasonable, illogical, and an exercise in self-indulgence, but these words are unbeleivable, to be sure. How profound, and deep, Brian. The man with a conscience over oil waste. A bit over the top, yea?!? I share his compulsion to save gas, and of course I do...I drive a Yaris too. However I'm not going to beat myself up for being a wasteful person for the first 45 years of my life.

And yes, the flow of oil in the early 1990's was in fact worth fighting over. Are we to be made to feel guilt for that nobel fight? Like it or not, good or bad, we live in an oil economy, so get over it, that we sent young American boys to die in Kuwait. That is what soldiers do. They fight for our country and sadly, sometimes they give their lives. This is not to suggest that all fights are worth it. Vietnam certainlly was a waste of young American lives, but Kuwait and the defense of oil flow are very, very different.

Yes, agreed GWB is the worse president. Ever! However to blame him entirely for all our oil woes is to show ignorance of the subject. Having fought there, been there, felt the danger of being in the middle east is not necessarily a qualification any more credible then those of us that have never been there. We have eyes. We have ears. And there are many other soldiers who've also been there, that would disagree with Brian.

Good interview Chino, however a dark part of Brian's phsycy does come through.

Regardless, I do appreciate Brian's contributions to conservation, and research, and consultations he has given all of us in finding better wasy to increase MPG, and can only be a good thing.

[ChinoCharles]

:laugh: I don't even know how to respond to that. All I can say is I encourage all who read this to do so with a very open mind. Don't do Brian the disservice of pigeonholing his entire worldview based on a few questions.

[justjesus]

Pretty cool interview and post, regardless of one's own political views.
Thank you Chino

[ChinoCharles]

Don't thank me!

[supmet]

So President Bush did all that in less than 9 months to cause the 9/11 attack?

No one said that.


Amazing that we can manage to point a finger at President Bush and blame it on oil! OMG The first Gulf War was in 1991 that's 18 years ago we were involved and to relate it to President GWB.......

Hmmm. you're right. W has no ties to oil whatsoever. He didn't start a war claiming there were WMDs when there were none. Dick Cheney has no affiliations with halleburton.

seriously, why do people defend W?


I generally appreciate the interview with Brian. However parts of his responses strike me as disingenuous, to be sure:

"The hardest part for me was... well, it is difficult to explain as it was a combination of emotions. In its simplest form it was dealing with the guilt once I realized that I had lived so wrongly for the first 35 years of my life. So much waste, so much antipathy, so much disregard for the future - not only for the planet but for my own body. It can be difficult to admit when you are wrong about even a little thing, but admitting to a huge and lengthy string of errors can be downright sad. I had to work through those negative emotions and learn how to question myself, and more importantly how to be honest with myself about who I am and who I want to be, and how I want to leave my mark on the world."

Not only are these thoughts unreasonable, illogical, and an exercise in self-indulgence, but these words are unbeleivable, to be sure. How profound, and deep, Brian. The man with a conscience over oil waste. A bit over the top, yea?!? I share his compulsion to save gas, and of course I do...I drive a Yaris too. However I'm not going to beat myself up for being a wasteful person for the first 45 years of my life.

And yes, the flow of oil in the early 1990's was in fact worth fighting over. Are we to be made to feel guilt for that nobel fight? Like it or not, good or bad, we live in an oil economy, so get over it, that we sent young American boys to die in Kuwait. That is what soldiers do. They fight for our country and sadly, sometimes they give their lives. This is not to suggest that all fights are worth it. Vietnam certainlly was a waste of young American lives, but Kuwait and the defense of oil flow are very, very different.

Yes, agreed GWB is the worse president. Ever! However to blame him entirely for all our oil woes is to show ignorance of the subject. Having fought there, been there, felt the danger of being in the middle east is not necessarily a qualification any more credible then those of us that have never been there. We have eyes. We have ears. And there are many other soldiers who've also been there, that would disagree with Brian.

wowoweewoo. That is perhaps the most american response to anything - EVER. Some people feel bad for using 10x the amount of energy on a day to day basis than 90% of the rest of the world. For you to say there's something wrong with that, is pretty crazy.

No one blamed W "entirely for all our oil woes." You are twisting words, because there is no other way to make what bush(es) has done sound right..

Oil > life? seriously dude, I have a friend who is still recovering from brain damage from an IED... I would gladly take the train or walk to be able to talk to him... Before you blast other people and say there is something wrong with them for feeling bad about destroying the planet and supporting violence, take a look in the mirror man.


Sorry to continue taking this thread off track - good interview man.. But I think(as has been shown here) if people don't get it by now, they never will.

[Bob_VT]

Start looking to the good things in life and be thankful for what we have. I think tomorrow I will see some granola crunching birkenstock wearing person and I will avoid running their ass over even though they blame everything on President Bush. Every time I drive past a President Bush basher I will make an effort not to hit them with my gas gulping yaris. Screw hypermiler's I fought for the oil...... I get to use it

[SilverGlow]

No one said that.



Hmmm. you're right. W has no ties to oil whatsoever. He didn't start a war claiming there were WMDs when there were none. Dick Cheney has no affiliations with halleburton.

seriously, why do people defend W?




wowoweewoo. That is perhaps the most american response to anything - EVER. Some people feel bad for using 10x the amount of energy on a day to day basis than 90% of the rest of the world. For you to say there's something wrong with that, is pretty crazy.

No one blamed W "entirely for all our oil woes." You are twisting words, because there is no other way to make what bush(es) has done sound right..

Oil > life? seriously dude, I have a friend who is still recovering from brain damage from an IED... I would gladly take the train or walk to be able to talk to him... Before you blast other people and say there is something wrong with them for feeling bad about destroying the planet and supporting violence, take a look in the mirror man.


Sorry to continue taking this thread off track - good interview man.. But I think(as has been shown here) if people don't get it by now, they never will.

Yes, now, today and perhaps tomorrow, we all would be dead without oil. In case you have not noticed, we need it. Badly.

This is not to suggest that oil should be here to stay. No, quite the contrary, and Brian is correct in saying that we should get off oil ASAP. But today, now, we need oil. And if our oil supply was halted now, and in the next second, very quickly we all would suffer. It is sad you don't understand this. Perhaps if you put the Karl Marx book down for a minute and thought about it, you might see the light, and see just how important going to Kuwait and fighting to keep the oil flowing was.

Regardless, we can all agree that our future is better if we find ways to get off our oil adiction, and that is something we all can agree on.

[33OH]

...in hopes that we could all take a lesson from it.

Come on guys, we all have our opinions on the subject. But this isn't the thread for that. :respekt:

[supmet]

Again with the word twisting, misinformation, and name calling. Bailout didn't force anyone to come here and read this. He's not hurting anyone, or insulting anyone who doesn't believe the same thing as him. He is just sharing his views on things that are wrong and steps he is taking to make them better. If you disagree, that's fine - I'm pretty sure the world is screwed no matter what we do at this point. But I see no reason for all the anger in here... (although I'd be crazy trying to understand someone who still supports bush)

"grrrr you dirty hippy minding your own business and not hurting anyone - I'm gonna run you over for trying not to destroy the environment"

Please, if you wish to call me names or show me how stupid I am, my PM box is always open.. Let's hope this thread can still serve its purpose, which was to give some insight into the mind of a hypermiler :D

[1NZYaris1]

Again with the word twisting, misinformation, and name calling. Bailout didn't force anyone to come here and read this. He's not hurting anyone, or insulting anyone who doesn't believe the same thing as him. He is just sharing his views on things that are wrong and steps he is taking to make them better. If you disagree, that's fine - I'm pretty sure the world is screwed no matter what we do at this point. But I see no reason for all the anger in here... (although I'd be crazy trying to understand someone who still supports bush)

"grrrr you dirty hippy minding your own business and not hurting anyone - I'm gonna run you over for trying not to destroy the environment"

Please, if you wish to call me names or show me how stupid I am, my PM box is always open.. Let's hope this thread can still serve its purpose, which was to give some insight into the mind of a hypermiler :D

:respekt:and +1 everyone has there own opinion, that's what make's us individual's,
No,
USA sucks , car parts are to cheap , gas is to cheap , and 0% interest rates kill the world , hay but life goes on ,you should live it one day at a time ,
because you might not be here tommorrow :drinking: :smoking:

that being said nice interview Charles.
:respekt:

[jonismyname]

when gas first crossed the $3/gallon line, i slowed down. i drove a 92 crown victoria at the time, and went from 18mpg to 25+mpg. i preached hypermiling, driving 55, and when my CV kicked the bucket i bought a geo metro and averaged 40+ consistantly. bought my yaris because of it's practical fuel consumption, and averaged high 30's and low 40's the first 10k. tracked my fuel consumption on cleanmpg.com.

when gas prices recently tanked, i started driving like i was 16 again. i've been averaging low 30's (winter tires/winter gas don't help, but i could do a lot better...)
it's fun to go fast.

im no english major, so i apologize for rambling. but my point is, i take away from this renewed intention to take very important things into consideration when living day to day life. regardless of your political views, YOUR actions affect the environment you live in, and MY actions affect the environement YOU live in. so thinking about these things when you live your day to day life is very important on many levels, and stepping up and making a real commitment to choose this as your way of changing the world and leaving your mark is commendable and difficult.

if you leave terrorism and war and all the headline politics out of the discussion, the political trend over the past 8 years has been very damaging to environmental issues, and would be a more proper debate...

it is silly and unamusing to debate the interviewee's personal motivation for what caused him to change his life in a dramatic manner, he was sharing personal experiences and describing what lit his fire, not picking a political fight.

if you want to fight politics, turn on fox news and yell at the Tv.

personally, im suprised nobody here commented on him bringing up Reduce Reuse Recycle, as thrifty yaris owners, we seem to be a club of people making an economical car just the way we like it, often times with things that didn't cost us a ton of money. and then when we buy new toys for our cars, we trade and barter the original or used fancy parts between ourselves. we are a commune of yaris hippies, sharing the love and joy of our simple transportation. and my beer is empty so im done for now.

[ChinoCharles]

^^^ Best post ever?

[Return of the Yarii]

For once I agree with Chino :smile:, one of the best posts ever.....

[1NZYaris1]

+1 :respekt:and look we are all acting our age :bellyroll:
see we can play nicely togeather.

[Shroomster]

until you anger the spelling gods..... :biggrin:


anyways where is Brian anyways? out saving rainforests?


I swear to god if he is on that damned 'Steve Irwin' ship with the ex-PETA guy....

[freeridelectric]

The best thing oil did was save the whale. It also gave us energy for a long time. It has had a good run but all things must end.

All wars have been over energy. In the times of kings, kingdoms would fight for land. What is land but energy. Kingdom's would fight for lands and the people in them. The people represented energy. They produced crops which were energy. Raised animals, taxes, and buildings all forms of energy or used to purchase energy. MHO.

I liked the interview. :clap: Brian I wish I could give you my car because you deserv it more than I.

[daf62757]

The best thing oil did was save the whale. It also gave us energy for a long time. It has had a good run but all things must end.

All wars have been over energy. In the times of kings, kingdoms would fight for land. What is land but energy. Kingdom's would fight for lands and the people in them. The people represented energy. They produced crops which were energy. Raised animals, taxes, and buildings all forms of energy or used to purchase energy. MHO.

I liked the interview. :clap: Brian I wish I could give you my car because you deserv it more than I.


Just curious..how old are you?

[freeridelectric]

Just curious..how old are you?

Well big Dave I am 47 now. I am young and dumb at heart though. :headbang: How about you?

[churp]

.....
All wars have been over energy. In the times of kings, kingdoms would fight for land. What is land but energy. ......

I would use the term 'greed' instead of energy. 'Greed' for the items that were important to that time in history.

Brian is commended for his conservation efforts, and I applaud him. The Gulf War was about oil....but was it because of Iraq's wanting to overtake Kuwait's oil fields and shipping ports, or our fear (and some allies) of how our economy and way of life would suffer because of it. The Iraq war was/is about oil also....an unstable dictator in control of a lot of oil, while all indicators showing flagrant defiance with possible WMD's, which most democrats and republicans in the House and Senate agreed upon (as the country becomes more stable our troops will no longer be needed).

We all need to conserve more, and look to alternative energy sources for the long run. As we get closer to alternative sources (I believe it will take a decade or two) drilling for oil on our own borders is a good choice for the transition to maintain our economy, way of life, and possibly relieve tensions world wide.

:clap:to Brian:clap:

[GeneW]

I work testing energy conversion devices for industry. I do more to save energy in an hour's work than most folks do in a year by voting or recycling. You all want to help the environment get a job in energy R&D or in the power conversion industry. Go to school or at least pick up a book and understand where your electricity comes from and how it's generated.

People voted for "Change" last fall. All we got is almost a trillion bucks more debt, in exchange for a Pork laden "stimulus" package. The same Congress which passed that crap with less debate than they exerted to send those guys over to the Mid East has the power to bring them all back. Why won't they do it? Who is kidding whom here?

Ah heck, Bush wasn't my choice, nor was McCain. We'll see how it goes next year when the unemployment rate is ten percent, we're still bringing home bodies from Iraq and Afghanistan and all the Democrats can do is blame the last eight years. Pointing fingers is easy, rolling up the sleeves and doing the work is hard. You either do or don't - it's that simple.

Gene

[drummerboy2004]

Great interview guys...

To all others,

Earth, and the fact that we live on it, is a privilege to us, not a right. No matter how you look at the world, and no matter what perspective you take on anything, the things you do every day affect nature. With too much abuse to the earth, it will fight back. So, no matter left/right, rep/dem, christian/atheist, old/young, or hypermiler/leadfoot you are all still humans. You take the expensive car, house, and job away from the CEO he is nothing more than equal to a disease-stricken, poverty-living individual in a third world country. All here should learn to get along, and stop picking up on each and every difference that is pushing us all into smaller and smaller groups of interests and world views.

I seldom sign into this site anymore because the comments and opinions speak so highly of unease in the ways others live their lives. For instance, if you post about, "Hey, did you see the new 300$ item that gives you 1 more HP?", you will receive admonishment from the hypermilers. If you say, "Man, last week I got 55 miles a gallon in my yaris!" others will say you are not enjoying the car. Just cut it out, and maybe I would find this site pleasant to come to... but for now I will stay over there at CleanMpg, where most seem to be fair.

Matt

P.S. if this was in any way offensive to anyone, I apologize, just making a point.

[freeridelectric]

I would use the term 'greed' instead of energy. 'Greed' for the items that were important to that time in history.

I agree. Greed for resources. Same today as it was back then. Mass is energy. More land mass more energy.


Brian is commended for his conservation efforts, and I applaud him. The Gulf War was about oil....but was it because of Iraq's wanting to overtake Kuwait's oil fields and shipping ports, or our fear (and some allies) of how our economy and way of life would suffer because of it. The Iraq war was/is about oil also....an unstable dictator in control of a lot of oil, while all indicators showing flagrant defiance with possible WMD's, which most democrats and republicans in the House and Senate agreed upon (as the country becomes more stable our troops will no longer be needed).

Good point. We did not want a dictator to control that resource or energy so we would have better access to it. Same as through out history.

We all need to conserve more, and look to alternative energy sources for the long run. As we get closer to alternative sources (I believe it will take a decade or two) drilling for oil on our own borders is a good choice for the transition to maintain our economy, way of life, and possibly relieve tensions world wide.

:clap:to Brian:clap:

We only have 3% of the worlds oil reserves and we consume 25% percent of the worlds oil each day.

We need off oil. We need the oil and car companies to quit poring millions of dollars into our political system polluting it with lobbing dollars to keep every thing the same so they can make there profits. Since Bush and Cheney, both of whom were x-oil executives have been in office the oil and gas industry spent 393 million dollars in lobbing money.

America needs to lead the way and show these other less fortunate countries how to switch to renewable sources for transportation and household convieniances.

Their is and has been a grassroots movement to do this but it takes a long time.

I work testing energy conversion devices for industry. I do more to save energy in an hour's work than most folks do in a year by voting or recycling. You all want to help the environment get a job in energy R&D or in the power conversion industry. Go to school or at least pick up a book and understand where your electricity comes from and how it's generated.

I agree. I am 47 but I am going to try and get a job doing some thing with alternative energy. Or start a shop building electric cars. I won't be happy unless I do.

People voted for "Change" last fall. All we got is almost a trillion bucks more debt, in exchange for a Pork laden "stimulus" package. The same Congress which passed that crap with less debate than they exerted to send those guys over to the Mid East has the power to bring them all back. Why won't they do it? Who is kidding whom here?

At leased there are provisions in there for green jobs like solar panels and battery manufacturers.

More than anything Bush ever proposed in the way of green stimulation. He stimulated the economy by giving concessions to big oil and big auto. (ie)100,000 dollar tax break for Hummers. Cheney's energy policies consisted of getting all the oil executives together and creating a energy policy and excluded all others.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/347/oil-politics.html


Ah heck, Bush wasn't my choice, nor was McCain. We'll see how it goes next year when the unemployment rate is ten percent, we're still bringing home bodies from Iraq and Afghanistan and all the Democrats can do is blame the last eight years. Pointing fingers is easy, rolling up the sleeves and doing the work is hard. You either do or don't - it's that simple.

Gene

Great interview guys...

To all others,

Earth, and the fact that we live on it, is a privilege to us, not a right. No matter how you look at the world, and no matter what perspective you take on anything, the things you do every day affect nature. With too much abuse to the earth, it will fight back..

The earth should fight back.

So, no matter left/right, rep/dem, christian/atheist, old/young, or hypermiler/leadfoot you are all still humans. You take the expensive car, house, and job away from the CEO he is nothing more than equal to a disease-stricken, poverty-living individual in a third world country. All here should learn to get along, and stop picking up on each and every difference that is pushing us all into smaller and smaller groups of interests and world views. .

I believe there will be more smaller and smaller groups of interest as the population continues to rise. Isn't that the real problem? We just keep populating like the fruit fly. Wonder if we will ever get off this berg called earth. If the population is going to keep on doubling we really need to be able to go exploit other planets. That or the earth will have it's revenge in the way of the avian bird flew or a new kind of aids or some other disease that will kill off the population.

I seldom sign into this site anymore because the comments and opinions speak so highly of unease in the ways others live their lives. For instance, if you post about, "Hey, did you see the new 300$ item that gives you 1 more HP?", you will receive admonishment from the hypermilers. If you say, "Man, last week I got 55 miles a gallon in my yaris!" others will say you are not enjoying the car. Just cut it out, and maybe I would find this site pleasant to come to... but for now I will stay over there at CleanMpg, where most seem to be fair.

Matt

P.S. if this was in any way offensive to anyone, I apologize, just making a point.

Not offensive at all. Happy to read your comments. Cheers.

[GeneW]

At leased there are provisions in there for green jobs like solar panels and battery manufacturers.

More than anything Bush ever proposed in the way of green stimulation. He stimulated the economy by giving concessions to big oil and big auto. (ie)100,000 dollar tax break for Hummers. Cheney's energy policies consisted of getting all the oil executives together and creating a energy policy and excluded all others.

If something needs a subsidy, unless it's in an R&D phase, this ought to inform us that it's gonna cost the average person more money. How many decades have photo voltaic cells been around? Forty, fifty?

The sun isn't going to get any brighter. The physics of semi-conductors hasn't changed very radically.

If anything the manufacturing processes have improved, how much I do not know. I'm not a specialist in that field. I do know that I ran the numbers for my home, and I would have "broken even" in about eight years at today's power rates. Broken even means that the power savings paid off the investment. Ain't impressed.

Fact is that until the mid 1800s people used "sustainable" energy. They quit using it because...

1. Unreliable - the wind isn't always blowing nor the water always flowing. Sometimes vegetable matter gets diseases, drought and so on.
2. Expensive - takes human labor to work some of it. People = $$$
3. Not sufficiently "dense". They could not run an entire factory on one water mill or windmill.
4. Took a lot of manpower to gather if it was wood or vegetable matter (biomass).

The future belongs to nuclear energy, especially nuclear fusion. We've had it since the 1940s, when the first tritium boosted nukes were tested.

However it's been a problematic issue. Very tough to work with plasmas. Also, the Greens DO NOT LIKE NUCLEAR FUSION. Greens do not like cheap energy because cheap energy equals "big footprints", which Buckminster Fuller showed was NOT THE CASE.

However the Greens have, more and more, been about political control and not about saving the planet. Bucky Fuller could do more on a sheet of paper than Greenpeace can do in one year of lobbying, chasing whalers and so on.



For the cost of subsidizing ACORN ($4 billion US) eighty percent of the the cost of the ITER could have been realized. I want people to see that comparison in print... The ITER will cost $5 billion US dollars, plus one billion for staffing.

Eighty percent of the cost to build the world's most advanced nuclear fusion reactor, versus subsidizing a Rent-a-Mob.

I think the priorities of the Obama Administration are pretty clear - hold and maintain power. Political power.

Now if the "Stimulus" had been about building a twin to the ITER in the US, in order to increase the amount of experimentation on nuclear fusion I'd have been more impressed. Instead money was beshat upon all sorts of cute programs that pay off various interest groups in urban areas. Including ACORN.

Gene

[GeneW]

You take the expensive car, house, and job away from the CEO he is nothing more than equal to a disease-stricken, poverty-living individual in a third world country.

Depending upon how the car and job were taken the CEO would probably have them back within a short period of time. They have the confidence, they know the tricks and they know the Game.

Bernard Baruch used to say, "IF we took all of the world's money and distributed it equally, within a few years all of the people who have most of it today would have it again". While I am somewhat skeptical about this I do think that most CEOs have that combination of brains, guts, drive, energy and lack of empathy for others that sets them apart from the average person.

I work with guys who came from Africa China, India and elsewhere. They're good people, and talented. Just don't see any of them being as crafty, driven and hard nosed as your average CEO.

I seldom sign into this site anymore because the comments and opinions speak so highly of unease in the ways others live their lives. For instance, if you post about, "Hey, did you see the new 300$ item that gives you 1 more HP?", you will receive admonishment from the hypermilers. If you say, "Man, last week I got 55 miles a gallon in my yaris!" others will say you are not enjoying the car. Just cut it out, and maybe I would find this site pleasant to come to... but for now I will stay over there at CleanMpg, where most seem to be fair.

Matt

P.S. if this was in any way offensive to anyone, I apologize, just making a point.

Matt, isn't your own opinion good enough for you? Why do you care what others think of your posts or your lifestyle?

You have come a ways in life and live in a particular place. You're happy being a good steward to the planet. Some of us, in contrast, are just cheap and get a small stroke from being efficient, is all. Others want to party or have a greed for speed.

Some people are not going to agree with you. Some will call you names. I don't agree with all that you claim here but I think that you're sincere.

Let the bad roll off of your back. I've had people come at me here and as long as they don't get too intense I let it go. If they want to scrap I give it to them. Life is too short to worry about what others think of you, besides the people who you pledge allegiance to in RL. I care what my lovers, friends and family think, not of me but of what I do with them.

Everyone else? It's nice but not essential.

Gene

[daf62757]

Well big Dave I am 47 now. I am young and dumb at heart though. :headbang: How about you?

Well I am 51. I would have guessed you were much younger by your comments.

[drummerboy2004]

Depending upon how the car and job were taken the CEO would probably have them back within a short period of time. They have the confidence, they know the tricks and they know the Game.

Bernard Baruch used to say, "IF we took all of the world's money and distributed it equally, within a few years all of the people who have most of it today would have it again". While I am somewhat skeptical about this I do think that most CEOs have that combination of brains, guts, drive, energy and lack of empathy for others that sets them apart from the average person.

I work with guys who came from Africa China, India and elsewhere. They're good people, and talented. Just don't see any of them being as crafty, driven and hard nosed as your average CEO.



Matt, isn't your own opinion good enough for you? Why do you care what others think of your posts or your lifestyle?

You have come a ways in life and live in a particular place. You're happy being a good steward to the planet. Some of us, in contrast, are just cheap and get a small stroke from being efficient, is all. Others want to party or have a greed for speed.

Some people are not going to agree with you. Some will call you names. I don't agree with all that you claim here but I think that you're sincere.

Let the bad roll off of your back. I've had people come at me here and as long as they don't get too intense I let it go. If they want to scrap I give it to them. Life is too short to worry about what others think of you, besides the people who you pledge allegiance to in RL. I care what my lovers, friends and family think, not of me but of what I do with them.

Everyone else? It's nice but not essential.

Gene

Gene,

You seem very wise, and your words are encouraging and useful.

I see what you mean about the CEOs, but some in this world do get certain things in life from knowing successful others. This is often not the case, but some will argue that a certain "C" student got into office as president because of his connections in life.

I also see what you mean about the comments regarding, "caring what others think"... I am not one to care what others think too often... I was just indicating that people are pushing themselves into nice, neat little world views, and that we should more often than push others away, should embrace similarity... all in which, would lead to kinder people.

Thanks Gene for putting a better face on Yaris World, and continue to do your part for efficiency from a technological standpoint... very interesting!

Matt

[Jeff E.]

Brian Morris is certainly one of the more unorthodox Yaris owners in the country. While the online subcompact community clamors about the latest supercharger or one of a gaggle of other ways to squeeze every available horse out of our displacement-challenged engines, Brian is somewhere coasting with his car turned off. He belongs to an up-and-coming (and often misunderstood) niche in the world of automotive enthusiasts, one that places emphasis on economy over ego and MPG over Max HP. We now know these men and women to be Hypermilers, intent on making a gallon of gas go further than anyone imagined possible. However, Brian's involvement in the Hypermiling community is symptomatic of a larger ideology, and a timely one at that. As the United States is drowning in its own energy dependencies, there are people out there waking up and realizing their consumption affects more than just this month's bills. Brian is one of those people. I wanted to sit down and pick his brain a bit about what he stands for in hopes that we could all take a lesson from it. His battle is a noble one, but it is admittedly against the grain of societal norms. It takes courage, discipline, and a spirit of individuality that few possess.



Thanks again to Brian for taking some time to speak with me. I sincerely hope that as time goes on we can learn something from people like him. They are all around us. Society is conforming to scarcity, as it always has and as it always will. Those that don't will inevitably fall. We can all do our part to help, whether it be one step at a time or in a drastic epiphany of change and adaptation. Whatever your favorite flavor of progress may be, tap into it this year. Do something more. Now is the time!
truly a secular progressive point of view.

[GeneW]

I see what you mean about the CEOs, but some in this world do get certain things in life from knowing successful others. This is often not the case, but some will argue that a certain "C" student got into office as president because of his connections in life.

Matt

If the C average guy you're speaking of is Bush he has a lot of company.

The most educated President in US history was Woodrow Wilson. He held a PhD in Political Science. Only PhD to ever be President. Some people say that Obama is the most educated President in History. This is patent non-sense; many many US Presidents were lawyers. Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton, and quite a few others were lawyers. Ford and Clinton were graduates of Yale Law School. Nixon graduated from Duke University.

Wilson is known for letting the British skunk him into declaring an unpopular and unnecessary war on Germany. We were neutral until about 1916-1917, when US banking interests decided that their seven billion in loans to the British were not going to get repaid if the Brits lost the war. Hence Wilson's Advisors, including a member of the Council of Foreign Relations named Edward House, lobbied him to move towards the British.

Wilson also introduced the Income Tax, central economic planning and a lot of other modern day woes into American life.

Harry S. Truman never went to college. I think he'd do a better job than our current Harvard educated whiz kid.


CEOs do not win popular votes. They obtain a majority of shareholder votes and can be expelled at any time from the position.

CEOs keep their position at the sufferance of shareholders. Their most bitter enemies are their rivals for power in the office. They must always be on guard from intrigue from VPs and assistants who fancy that they could do a better job if they were given the nod.

The Office is a jungle. If you've never worked in an office let me break it down for you. Everyone wants to keep their rice bowl and gain more power, prestige, turf and influence. They jealously guard their things and authority. There is a pecking order, even in nice places.

The higher up you go, the more power and juice you got and the harder you fall when you fall from favor. You grow empires by hiring more people, poaching staff from other departments and hoarding resources for yourself. You score points at meetings, humiliating and downgrading others. It's how things go with people - in government it's almost the same way.

This is how it is at the bottom of the power pyramid. As you go up in rank the stakes and the consequences also grow bigger.

When you get to the top you have no friends. You are alone. You are in the dark in many ways, because people have an agenda for keeping you in the dark. You can punish them so they will never be completely frank with you. You can get other people punished so anyone under them will not be frank with you either. Nobody wants to say that the Emperor has no clothes.

This is the world of the CEO. Powerful. Alone. At the top. Able to read between the lines and judge which is said and not said but should be said.

Few people can manage up there. You have to be people smart, book smart and have a lot of confidence in yourself.

Gene

[drummerboy2004]

If the C average guy you're speaking of is Bush he has a lot of company.

The most educated President in US history was Woodrow Wilson. He held a PhD in Political Science. Only PhD to ever be President. Some people say that Obama is the most educated President in History. This is patent non-sense; many many US Presidents were lawyers. Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton, and quite a few others were lawyers. Ford and Clinton were graduates of Yale Law School. Nixon graduated from Duke University.

Wilson is known for letting the British skunk him into declaring an unpopular and unnecessary war on Germany. We were neutral until about 1916-1917, when US banking interests decided that their seven billion in loans to the British were not going to get repaid if the Brits lost the war. Hence Wilson's Advisors, including a member of the Council of Foreign Relations named Edward House, lobbied him to move towards the British.

Wilson also introduced the Income Tax, central economic planning and a lot of other modern day woes into American life.

Harry S. Truman never went to college. I think he'd do a better job than our current Harvard educated whiz kid.


CEOs do not win popular votes. They obtain a majority of shareholder votes and can be expelled at any time from the position.

CEOs keep their position at the sufferance of shareholders. Their most bitter enemies are their rivals for power in the office. They must always be on guard from intrigue from VPs and assistants who fancy that they could do a better job if they were given the nod.

The Office is a jungle. If you've never worked in an office let me break it down for you. Everyone wants to keep their rice bowl and gain more power, prestige, turf and influence. They jealously guard their things and authority. There is a pecking order, even in nice places.

The higher up you go, the more power and juice you got and the harder you fall when you fall from favor. You grow empires by hiring more people, poaching staff from other departments and hoarding resources for yourself. You score points at meetings, humiliating and downgrading others. It's how things go with people - in government it's almost the same way.

This is how it is at the bottom of the power pyramid. As you go up in rank the stakes and the consequences also grow bigger.

When you get to the top you have no friends. You are alone. You are in the dark in many ways, because people have an agenda for keeping you in the dark. You can punish them so they will never be completely frank with you. You can get other people punished so anyone under them will not be frank with you either. Nobody wants to say that the Emperor has no clothes.

This is the world of the CEO. Powerful. Alone. At the top. Able to read between the lines and judge which is said and not said but should be said.

Few people can manage up there. You have to be people smart, book smart and have a lot of confidence in yourself.

Gene

A very eye-opening post:clap:

Not sure about the whiz kid comment..., but I respect others and their opinions. My honors thesis is actually about psychological perceptions, stereotypes, and President Obama (more in depth than this obviously). I guess my idea of the fathered in CEO, is one of the exception to the rule, or the improbable. Much like the penguin being a bird that cannot fly. Thanks once again for the well-stated presidential history lesson.

Matt

[GeneW]

I guess my idea of the fathered in CEO, is one of the exception to the rule, or the improbable.

Matt

Some families will groom their kids to succeed them in the family business. A late friend of mine did this with his own kids. He set out to teach the kids how to manage people and how to lead them. One became a Navy SEAL - not an easy trick in itself - and the other today runs a retail store.

Most of the time the kid grows up in a home where they do not get the kind of challenges needed to grow confident. Instead they get lazy or feel entitled. They don't grow into a CEO but instead become a spoiled brat who ultimately crashes the family business.

My own family is the latter case. My Exec Grandpa would not let his kid go into industry. He insisted that Dad become a professional. Dad was not groomed to survive in the Corporate jungle. I know more about it then he.

Grandpa was a holy terror, having come up from poverty in a ghetto area of Pittsburgh. He earned his spurs working up through the ranks, which included getting his Law degree on his own dime and time, but not taking the Bar - so he could do tax work. He also wasted a guy on the job who was trying to rob the payroll. Shot him dead and kept the money safe.

Grandpa was an Irish Catholic, a group which faced as much discrimination then as Mexicans do in most of the US today. So when one got to the top he was exceptional.

When Grandpa's "old fashioned" ways caught up to him he engineered a trick that put the company over a barrel. He saw the handwriting on the wall and put most of the physical plant into his name - he financed it.

They had to buy him out after they forced him out, and then he consulted and lived a nice life thereafter. I never had the pleasure of meeting him nor benefited from his moderation of Dad's drinking. My Dad is a good man but a spoiled brat who never quite grew up. My younger brothers like to play the "Inheritance Game" - they pass each other dollars bills and say, "Here's your inheritance".

I already got mine - an education, an attitude and a fine negative example. I won't touch liquor. My Dad can keep his money.

I lived an easy life until I got out on my own. The reality wall hit me pretty hard and I had to scrap a bit. Today I make my own way.

Gene

[GeneW]

I worked with a girl who looked like Keri Wuhrer, she was that pretty. Her husband runs the family business. The two of them spend money like water, cannot deny themselves the smallest indulgences and will not entertain guests at home.

They recently poured almost a million dollars into a home in a small town. The original house was handsome and functional, now it's gauche and needlessly overblown, with marble floors, sculptures and other trappings.

She used to complain that her husband's friends looked like "bums" even though they were "millionaires". She could not understand why these people would not "spend some of that money". Later she demanded that her husband buy her an Audi, "since he's so rich".

I cautioned her that her refusal to entertain at home is an impediment to her husband's long term happiness. "You need to make a good impression on customers and friends", I said. "It's not the money, it's the small gestures that cement an impression of generosity and ability".

She looked at me like I said it in Mandarin.

I don't understand someone who thinks that money is to be spent for frivolous reasons. You spend money and time on things that will better your life, not things that impress other people.

Gene

[drummerboy2004]

I worked with a girl who looked like Keri Wuhrer, she was that pretty. Her husband runs the family business. The two of them spend money like water, cannot deny themselves the smallest indulgences and will not entertain guests at home.

They recently poured almost a million dollars into a home in a small town. The original house was handsome and functional, now it's gauche and needlessly overblown, with marble floors, sculptures and other trappings.

She used to complain that her husband's friends looked like "bums" even though they were "millionaires". She could not understand why these people would not "spend some of that money". Later she demanded that her husband buy her an Audi, "since he's so rich".

I cautioned her that her refusal to entertain at home is an impediment to her husband's long term happiness. "You need to make a good impression on customers and friends", I said. "It's not the money, it's the small gestures that cement an impression of generosity and ability".

She looked at me like I said it in Mandarin.

I don't understand someone who thinks that money is to be spent for frivolous reasons. You spend money and time on things that will better your life, not things that impress other people.

Gene

That is the problem with many, and more as time progresses. Money is supposed to be one portion of life, not all that it is made out of. Some will spend every day of their life in pursuit of money or wealth, only to ignore things that matter more. The end result is a pointless, labored, life with nothing to show but a figure in some bank. The way I see it, money does not leave the earth with you when you die, so I try to live comfortably and within reason, and don't worry about having more than or something better than everyone else. To me, impressing others at the cost of one's time and effort is just a complete waste. The same reason I bought a Yaris, and not some car I could barely afford to be more impressive.

Matt

[SilverGlow]

That is the problem with many, and more as time progresses. Money is supposed to be one portion of life, not all that it is made out of. Some will spend every day of their life in pursuit of money or wealth, only to ignore things that matter more. The end result is a pointless, labored, life with nothing to show but a figure in some bank. The way I see it, money does not leave the earth with you when you die, so I try to live comfortably and within reason, and don't worry about having more than or something better than everyone else. To me, impressing others at the cost of one's time and effort is just a complete waste. The same reason I bought a Yaris, and not some car I could barely afford to be more impressive.

Matt

Amen brotha. At the time I bought my $11,000 2007 Yaris HB, I could have bought any other car cash, and up to $100,000. But why would I do something stupid like that? To impress my neighbors? Work mates? Be the big dog at Thanksgiving Dinner? F-no! Only shallow idiots would do that.

Nah, for me, I am happy with my Yaris...I put my $ in real investments, like condo rentals and such. I know of no less then 20 people personally that lease or are making payments on $50,000+ cars, and nearly all of these lemmings live paycheck to paycheck and have expressed worry about their jobs. Idiots! Just more examples of shallow, materialistic Americans, trying to keep up with the Jones at any cost. Style over Substances. Sad state, our country is in.

[KCALB SIRAY]

That is the problem with many, and more as time progresses. Money is supposed to be one portion of life, not all that it is made out of. Some will spend every day of their life in pursuit of money or wealth, only to ignore things that matter more. The end result is a pointless, labored, life with nothing to show but a figure in some bank. The way I see it, money does not leave the earth with you when you die, so I try to live comfortably and within reason, and don't worry about having more than or something better than everyone else. To me, impressing others at the cost of one's time and effort is just a complete waste. The same reason I bought a Yaris, and not some car I could barely afford to be more impressive.

Matt

Amen brotha. At the time I bought my $11,000 2007 Yaris HB, I could have bought any other car cash, and up to $100,000. But why would I do something stupid like that? To impress my neighbors? Work mates? Be the big dog at Thanksgiving Dinner? F-no! Only shallow idiots would do that.

Nah, for me, I am happy with my Yaris...I put my $ in real investments, like condo rentals and such. I know of no less then 20 people personally that lease or are making payments on $50,000+ cars, and nearly all of these lemmings live paycheck to paycheck and have expressed worry about their jobs. Idiots! Just more examples of shallow, materialistic Americans, trying to keep up with the Jones at any cost. Style over Substances. Sad state, our country is in.

Off Topic: I'm confused by your "Amen". You have cash up to $100,000, choice to invest in rentals (investment properties) and call people who spend money "shallow idiots". My view of these statements tell me you are agreeing to exactly what he is saying he does not care for in the commitments you are in:iono:

On Topic: Anyone want to interview me, be my guest

[ChinoCharles]

On Topic: Anyone want to interview me, be my guest


LOL. If this whole thing came off as toolish, I apologize. I just really do find it interesting, mostly because my ideals are so polar opposite of his, seemingly.

[Shroomster]

until you anger the spelling gods..... :biggrin:


anyways where is Brian anyways? out saving rainforests?


I swear to god if he is on that damned 'Steve Irwin' ship with the ex-PETA guy....

come on brian......where are youuuuuuu?

[SilverGlow]

Off Topic: I'm confused by your "Amen". You have cash up to $100,000, choice to invest in rentals (investment properties) and call people who spend money "shallow idiots". My view of these statements tell me you are agreeing to exactly what he is saying he does not care for in the commitments you are in:iono:

On Topic: Anyone want to interview me, be my guest

To clarify, I call people that choose to spend money idiots, IF they spend money on stupid things that will DEPRECIATE, and will sabotage their financial futures. Like pimping a Yaris, for example, or buying a huge big screen TV that they can't really justify financially. The best way to spend is to spend on things that will appreciate, will add value to one's portfolio, tangible items. Being mindful of a possible loss of a job, income, the state of the economy, that sort of thing. Forget about stocks and bonds...pure gambling, to be sure.

And if the country needs people to go out and spend money on stuff, than I agree, just so long as it is not me, personally that does that kind of wreckless spending. Let the lemmings do it, and I appreciate that they do.

Brian wants to save the planet and that motiviates him. That's fine, and good. I too want to save gas, and auto costs in general, but my compulsion comes from wanting to save $$ and not the planet, per se.

For those of us that care about saving $ or the planet, I strongly suspect our next cars will be hybrids. I plan on keeping the Yaris until it hits 300,000 miles, or falls apart, which ever happens first. Then by then, hybrids will be more reasonably priced, so yea, the Yaris is the last gas-only vehicle I will own, and I suspect the same for most of us, especially Brian.

[daf62757]

To clarify, I call people that choose to spend money idiots, IF they spend money on stupid things that will DEPRECIATE, and will sabotage their financial futures. Like pimping a Yaris, for example, or buying a huge big screen TV that they can't really justify financially. The best way to spend is to spend on things that will appreciate, will add value to one's portfolio, tangible items. Being mindful of a possible loss of a job, income, the state of the economy, that sort of thing. Forget about stocks and bonds...pure gambling, to be sure.

And if the country needs people to go out and spend money on stuff, than I agree, just so long as it is not me, personally that does that kind of wreckless spending. Let the lemmings do it, and I appreciate that they do.

Brian wants to save the planet and that motiviates him. That's fine, and good. I too want to save gas, and auto costs in general, but my compulsion comes from wanting to save $$ and not the planet, per se.

For those of us that care about saving $ or the planet, I strongly suspect our next cars will be hybrids. I plan on keeping the Yaris until it hits 300,000 miles, or falls apart, which ever happens first. Then by then, hybrids will be more reasonably priced, so yea, the Yaris is the last gas-only vehicle I will own, and I suspect the same for most of us, especially Brian.

Come on now. You were never young and did things like pimp your ride out? Never spent money on a young lady or bought a zoot suit to impress some young sweet thing?

When you are young you have the advantage of time. You can recover form mistakes...or choices that, upon reflection, seem less than wise years later.

If this government fails, and all your investments become worthless....the guy with the pimped out Yaris will have made a great investment!

[ChinoCharles]

^ Agreed. Too much high-and-mighty, not enough realism.