Pontiac no more?

[Cutie Pie #2]

Just saw on NBC nightly news that Pontiac is the end of the road. They went to the government asked for more bail out money they said no, so they are dropping the Pontiac line up, when they didn't say. Just thought I'd pass this news along.

[GeneW]

How did the Pontiac Division of GM go to Washington on its own? Do you mean, maybe, that GM is going to drop the Pontiac division of GM because there is not enough money coming their way?

GM already tossed Oldsmobile over the side, their last Alero (boo!) was made a few years back and then the entire line was dropped.

I heard on Natzional Public Radio today that GM tried to get the Swedish Govt' to bail out SAAB. The Swedish Gov't ain't having it. Also heard that SAAB wants to leave GM and go independent again. That would save GM some money. Maybe.

Too bad that GM won't do what it has to do - go bankrupt, drop the pension plan onto the PBGC, drop their gold plated health benefits (get them an HMO like the rest of us)

Gene

[tuckevalastin]

Saturn- dead by 2011 unless someone chooses to buy it
Hummer- dead by 2010 unless someone buys it
Saab- Bankrupt in Sweden after the Swedish government refused to help GM, dropped by GM by 2010 and will attempt to run independently

The rest of GM is still running

[tuckevalastin]

I found the clip you referred to online and just watched it.

The clip is speculating on the future of Pontiac and is referring to Pontiac being "demoted" since GM has said that its lineup wll be made smaller and that Pontiac will become more of a niche brand.

[Cutie Pie #2]

How did the Pontiac Division of GM go to Washington on its own? Do you mean, maybe, that GM is going to drop the Pontiac division of GM because there is not enough money coming their way?

GM already tossed Oldsmobile over the side, their last Alero (boo!) was made a few years back and then the entire line was dropped.

I heard on Natzional Public Radio today that GM tried to get the Swedish Govt' to bail out SAAB. The Swedish Gov't ain't having it. Also heard that SAAB wants to leave GM and go independent again. That would save GM some money. Maybe.

Too bad that GM won't do what it has to do - go bankrupt, drop the pension plan onto the PBGC, drop their gold plated health benefits (get them an HMO like the rest of us)

Gene

Yeah, I meant to say GM went, sorry.

[supmet]

good riddance.

I haven't seen a pontiac older than 5 years on the road ever.. People like cars that last longer than 5 years.

[TLyttle]

Pontiac gone? So, g'bye already...

[RHDVIPbB]

Also GM is dropping performance versions of every model.

Thankfully Hummer os going. I loved driving one in the military, but the civilian one sucks. Maybe gas prices will drop when people are no longer able to buy them. Although the dealerships still have to stay open for a nice list of reasons.

[tuckevalastin]

GM isn't dropping performances models they are just diverting those resources to other areas such as fuel efficiency until times are better for them. All performance models already available will remain available.

And Hummer sales are so small that killing Hummer isn't really don't affect anything except public perception and lightening GM's wallet .

[GeneW]

Also GM is dropping performance versions of every model.

Thankfully Hummer os going. I loved driving one in the military, but the civilian one sucks. Maybe gas prices will drop when people are no longer able to buy them. Although the dealerships still have to stay open for a nice list of reasons.

It's a nice thought to think that Hummers are a reason for high gas prices. In reality the reason for high prices are gas taxes, boutique blends, and world wide pressure on oil supplies. In the future, at least in the US, there will be heavier gas taxes because of demands for "infrastructure" pork spending, which will allegedly help reduce unemployment but in reality is just a money grab by another entrenched interest which can give $$$ to politicians.

One of my colleagues owns and drives the H3. He likes it. Since he has to work like a dog to fuel it I think it's his business. We have a right to pursue happiness, even if we never catch it.

Gene

[GeneW]

GM isn't dropping performances models they are just diverting those resources to other areas such as fuel efficiency until times are better for them. All performance models already available will remain available.

The performance models are cash cows, like the SUVs and Pickup trucks. Since they help carry domestic manufacturing you can be sure that GM will keep them for sale.

And Hummer sales are so small that killing Hummer isn't really don't affect anything except public perception and lightening GM's wallet .

I'm surprised that GM isn't pushing them more aggressively for export to wealthy folks overseas. I think a good advertising campaign in Spanish, Chinese and Arabic would yield nice returns for GM.

If I were in GM management I would consider offshoring the production lines to latin America or the Middle East, even China, out of sight, out of mind. Since they would not be imported back into the US it would easy to maintain a fiction that GM no longer makes Hummers.

GM could even create a "wholly owned subsidiary" that would maintain the fiction of an "independent" hummer while keeping this little gem in the GM fleet.

I think an armored version of the H2 or H3 would probably net some righteous cash in countries that are plagued by kidnappers. For example parts of Mexico and parts of Columbia would be fine markets for armored performance Hummers for that wealthy person who doesn't want to be taken for ransom.

Gene

[tuckevalastin]

I think the Hummer brand really could serve a purpose; however, the market that it had when it debuted has killed its public image and GM is trying desperately to "look efficient" to the public.

Personally I'd say a Hummer lineup that was a direct Jeep competitor could really sell as a niche brand in the US. The H4 battling the Wrangler, a rethought H3 against the Cherokee, and a completely new H2 to compete with the FJ Cruiser market.

Aside from that, shipping the current Hummer platforms oversees could be a great way to keep selling them without having to spend money to update them.

All in all this will likely be the end of Hummer though simply because of statements from the American public like, "Maybe gas prices will drop when people are no longer able to buy them."

[TLyttle]

IMHO the Hummer just demonstrates the colossal arrogance of GM, and the people who buy them. The ultimate thumb-in-the-eye of the rest of the planet and the problems therein.

[Yaris Revenge]

They should go ahead and kill Saturn. They've been practically "undead" since they offed the L and S models anyway. Nobody liked the Ion, and it was overpriced. Now that they've discontinued the high MPG econoboxes and plastic body panels, they're just another rebadge in a whole lineup of rebadges. :frown:

~YR

[supmet]

The news is sounding more and more confident that Pontiac is a goner. The numbers in the second article make me wonder though.. It looks like Buick and Cadillac are performing worse than Saturn and Pontiac... I think all 4 + Saab and Hummer will all be gone within 5 years.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124060030328753755.html
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2009/04/25/gm0425.html

[l2a3k2a3i]

From what I read earlier this month sometime (where i dont remember probably like cnn or msnbc), GM has been planning to take pontiac down to 1 car model pretty soon. They've been talking about it since Washington gave them a deadline.

Saturn's trying to find independant buyers to keep going, but who knows where thatll go..

[tuckevalastin]

The news is sounding more and more confident that Pontiac is a goner. The numbers in the second article make me wonder though.. It looks like Buick and Cadillac are performing worse than Saturn and Pontiac... I think all 4 + Saab and Hummer will all be gone within 5 years.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124060030328753755.html
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2009/04/25/gm0425.html

Cutting Buick and Cadillac? What would be left, Chevrolet - the everyman's car, and GMC- fleet vehicles.... If that happens GM won't be able to compete with anyone but maybe Mitsubishi. Cadillac and Buick are big money brands. Killing them is killing GM.

From what I read earlier this month sometime (where i dont remember probably like cnn or msnbc), GM has been planning to take pontiac down to 1 car model pretty soon. They've been talking about it since Washington gave them a deadline.

Saturn's trying to find independant buyers to keep going, but who knows where thatll go..

Not necessarily one model but more generally turning Pontiac into a niche brand. Cars like the G8 and Solstice and previous GTO would last for a few generations depending on popularity and give GM a performance division again. So depending on the time Pontiac could have anywhere from 1 to maybe 5 models.

[tuckevalastin]

RIP Pontiac, be happy you got to die with your dignity and true-to-your-heritage models, the Solstice and G8. The rest of GM gets to keep being raped by the government until it is turned into a bland mass of Aveos at which point it will slowly die.

[GeneW]

GM has been converging lines for years. Used to be that there were issues with parts compatibility between GM brands.

It was weird - Buick put their oil pumps out in the front. Everyone else put theirs into the oil pan. Chevy put their distributors towards the back of the motor. Pontiac put theirs in the front. They had weird distributions of engine sizes too. The 326 versus the 327 or the 428 versus the 427.

I am not sure how it went with Oldsmobile and Buick.


Today you can interchange parts much more easily between "similar" body styles.

GM is doing the right thing. They'll combine and find new market niches.

Provided that the Feds don't swallow them up by owning their stock.

Gene

[tuckevalastin]

I'm all for the reduction of rebadging in a common market. That is just excess and doesnt lead to smart business. However if you look at Pontiac today there really isn't much in the way of rebadging.

Vibe- no GM siblings
G6- No real sibling especially the coupe, convertible, and gxp versions
G5- once Chevy moves to the Cruze this year, no GM siblings
G8- No GM siblings available in the US
Solstice- With Saturn already slated to be dead, no GM siblings

so really the only rebadges are
Torrent- Would have been gone once Chevy, GMC, and Cadillac moved to new generations of the platform
G3- Only created as a way to help meet government requirements of having more ultra fuel efficient vehicles

The only reason GM is killing Pontiac is to be able to show the government a larger decrease in models, factories, workers, and ultimately spending.

It's like going to the doctor and being told you are overweight so you cut off your arm. Sure you lost weight with the arm gone but you didn't actually fix any problem. Not to mention the arm was pretty useful. If you look at Pontiac's numbers especially once you take away the G3 and Torrent you realize Pontiac was that arm for GM.

It's over for GM; they are being forced to cut the things that make them worth buying over other vehicles. The loss of vehicles like the Saturn Astra, Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Skye, Pontiac G8 really prove that.