Inverting an LCD

[Sodium Duck]

I've seen a few tutorials on how to do this online, anyone done it?

I'd like to invert the gas gauge.

[GeneralDon7]

There was one member on here, who got it done by someone, else, and all they used was a film that you could buy that inverted it, ill post the link if i can find it.

[Sodium Duck]

Yes, I believe you can just buy any LCD polarizing film. I've found a few places that sell it, sorta expensive.

[wsladaritz]

That's interesting....

[Sodium Duck]

Yea, I found that site last night. I think I may go to the dollar store and buy some calculators to practice on.

[Sodium Duck]

Umm, I'm no electrician. How would I go about reversing the cathode input? Would that be easier or give a better result?

[bzinn 1]

contact this person from Scion Life www.garage1217.com he does all this kind of stuf for the Scions and has all the materials you will need and can give you a how to do it as well...he is really cool.

[the_boss]

i have done that when in was in primary school with a calculator, i was able to take the lens in front of the lcd display and turn it (side facing lcd display goes outside and outside goes inside) and the color was inverted white digits and black background

not sure how the gas gauge is but would probably work too

[enobmort42]

isn't it factory on some models? i'd like to do it, myself. this and the radio color were the two biggest "cons" in getting the car i did.

[Meteorite_Marty]

Where do you get the LCD polarizing film to even take on this job?

[CTScott]

When I've inverted LCDs, I bought the film from Edmund Scientific:

http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productid=1912

[Sodium Duck]

Ha, I just bought a 1$ calculator at Walmart to try it out, very easy to do. I'm going to buy a sheet of polarizing film to do this.

Is there a way to know what the orientation of the film is so I don't need to temporarily plug the gauges back in to the car?

[CTScott]

Theoretically, you could use your $1 calculator as a test fixture for the orientation. After removing its film, place the original Yaris film over it, and note the effect, then remove it and rotate the new film over it until you see the opposite effect as the Yaris film.

[Sodium Duck]

Found this on the site you posted before Scott:

How can I tell what the polarization axis is for a linear polarizer?
The axis of a linear polarizer determines the plane of polarization that the polarizer passes. There are two ways of finding the axis of a polarizer. A simple method is to start with a known polarizer with a marked axis. Place both the known and unknown polarizer together and transmit light through them. Rotate the unknown polarizer until no light passes through the pair of polarizers. In this orientation, the unknown polarizer's axis is 90° from the axis of the known polarizer.

If a known polarizer with a marked axis cannot be found, the axis can be found by taking advantage of the Brewster effect. When light reflects at glancing incidence off of a non-metallic surface, the S-polarization is reflected more than the P-polarization. A quick way to do this is to look at the glare off of a tiled floor or another non-metallic surface. Rotate the polarizer until the glare is minimized. In this position, the polarizer is oriented so that the axis is vertical. As an example, sunglasses use polarizers that have the polarization axis vertically oriented.

[Sodium Duck]

I think the 2"X2" sheet there will just almost perfectly fit the LCD btw. I just ran down and did a quick measurement on the car, and it looks like it's just a bit under 2" wide. For 9$ you can't go wrong.

[Sodium Duck]

Or I could take a chance here, lol.

http://www.sciplus.com/singleItem.cfm/terms/9366/cartLogFrom/froogle

[Sodium Duck]

Or they're really big and cheap here.

http://www.3dlens.com/shop/polarizer.php

[Sodium Duck]

Edmunds Optics does not have an adhesive backing on them.

[CTScott]

Correct. The LCDs I inverted had a metal frame around them, so I was able to simply sandwich the ES film. If you go with a non-adhesive film and find that the LCD doesn't have a frame, you can simply tape the film around the edges, making sure that the tape doesn't extend past the frame coverage.

[Sodium Duck]

Much to contemplate now. haha

[Meteorite_Marty]

My gas gauge is already inverted, from factory. Black background with white text.

I want to do my radio to match it. I have already done a white LED replacement on my radio (replaced the green LEDs). Currently the radio has a white background with black text, but would like the display to inverted. This way it would match my dashboard displays.

[Meteorite_Marty]

Or they're really big and cheap here.

http://www.3dlens.com/shop/polarizer.php

Which one did you order? Functionalitywise, are they all the same? It looks like they just differ by size and anti-glare.

[Sodium Duck]

I'm just going to go with the Edmund Optics, but I'm not ordering until I go out and pop my gauge cluster out. I want exact measurements of the LCD before I go ordering something.

Like Scott said, some tape will hold it in place fine. I may even do a dab of some silicone adhesive in the corners for a more permanent thing.

Can you post pics of your dash? Are you talking about the black background and green horozontal gas gauge thing? Or I've seen another one that had more of a blue-ish background.

[Meteorite_Marty]

Here are the pictures of my dash.

[Sodium Duck]

Ahh yes, it has that blue-ish background.

I think you'll just have to buy an extra big sheet from Edmunds to cover it all.

Tommorow I'm going to pop my gauge cluster out, take measurements, and order from Edmunds. If I end up needing a bigger sheet, I'll sell the leftovers for cheap.

[Sodium Duck]

Which one did you order? Functionalitywise, are they all the same? It looks like they just differ by size and anti-glare.

Some of the ones there are not indicated for use by LCD screens. There are only a few listed that are intended for LCD's. Aside from that, they are based in Taiwain, and I don't like dealing over the seas.

[Meteorite_Marty]

Ahh yes, it has that blue-ish background.

I think you'll just have to buy an extra big sheet from Edmunds to cover it all.

Tommorow I'm going to pop my gauge cluster out, take measurements, and order from Edmunds. If I end up needing a bigger sheet, I'll sell the leftovers for cheap.


Well, I am happy with the dashboard. Its not as "blue" as it looks. Blends nicely into the dark for night driving.

I am going to try and do this for my radio display, to unify the look.

[Sodium Duck]

So it looks like the visible area is about 1 7/8" X 3/4" and the actual LCD itself is about 2" X 1".

Hmm. I'm going to think about it for a couple hours then decide which film to buy. If I get the one from Edmunds, I could simply put the 2" X 2" sheet down and tape/glue the overhang above and below to the plastic case. Then the black face for the gauges would hold the rest down sufficiently I think.

[Sodium Duck]

Forgot to add pics... boink.

[CTScott]

Forgot to add pics... boink.

Snap some pics of the PCB with the microcontroller, etc. PK's been anxious for someone to post some when they have their combo meter assembly apart...

[Sodium Duck]

... I just got back from putting it back in my car ... Dang!

When I take it apart again to do the film I'll take more pics. To be honest though, I think I'm going to do this mod without taking much apart. All you have to do to gain access to the LCD is pop the front plastic off the gauge cluster, pull the speedo needle (which I was too sissy to pull hard enough on to actually remove for these pics), and take the background off. The LCD is just sitting there. It snaps into place with those four little white indented tabs you see in the pics. Then there are 22 really long pins on the bottom of the LCD that go down to some connector.

Does he want pics of the whole circuit board taken apart, like the people who did the LED color changes to their gauge cluster?

[Sodium Duck]

Good gravy.

NT43-781: $8.00
Subtotal: $8.00
Tax: $0.40
Shipping: $9.32
Total: $17.72

9 bucks to ship me a 2" X 2" piece of paper... I'm going to search around the net and see what else I can find. Even the stuff from Taiwan was only 4 bucks to ship, but they have a minimum $10 purchase thing. Still, it'd only be 14 bucks.

[Sodium Duck]

Sounds cool. I'd like to have temp and MPG be enabled, that'd be snazzy. I'm just going to eat it big and buy from Edmunds anyways, so in a week or so when I take my gauges out, I'll do it.

It's really easy to take the gauge cluster out though, takes about 2 minutes total, just 2 screws. How come you haven't taken yours out?

[Sodium Duck]

I'm assuming that the Canadian Yaris's have the same LCD gauge as the US Yaris's? Can you post a pic up of a gauge with the things you want turned on? I'm just curious.

In the above pics from Marty, you can see the things that the gauge can display, but isn't - if you look closely. I'd like to take a few shots of my LCD and see if I can see them too.

Just want to know what I'm trying to look for.

[neo1985]

i have done that when in was in primary school with a calculator, i was able to take the lens in front of the lcd display and turn it (side facing lcd display goes outside and outside goes inside) and the color was inverted white digits and black background

not sure how the gas gauge is but would probably work too


BINGO!!! i was just about to say that.. u dont need to buy anything.. just take off the top layer carefully on the lcd and then turn it!!!

[neo1985]

except when the sun hits it without the screen you won't see much , you need the screen to prevent washout

that true tho!! but thats how it is with that effect

[Sodium Duck]

ok in Marty's pics since he has a automatic you can see , the CVT icon and Manual/Tiptronic icon and his clock is shifted to the left. Mine is stick so i can see the MPG, Temp as well as km and miles counters.

I suspect that the automatic display is taken directly from the JDM versions (saves them money by just making one kind and enabling certain functions)

I have an automatic, too. Is it still worth it to you for me to take pics? I don't believe mine has the same things as yours.

[Sodium Duck]

woot!

Yea, all you need to do to get your gauge cluster out is take the side pieces off (start pulling from the bottom). And by side pieces, I mean the long trim piece that has your hazard lights and air bag sensor on them. Then you take the trim piece off the gauge cluster itself. I usually go from the bottom, pulling up from where it attaches above the vents to the top. Then there are just 2 screws and two connectors that easily come out and your gauge cluster is free.

So I guess it's a little more than just two screws... but I can have my cluster out from start to finish in 2 minutes. Everything just pops off easily.

[Meteorite_Marty]

Just "practiced" on a second factory radio I had for the Yaris. Dismantled the LCD and removed the polarizing film. Flipped the film 90 degrees and achieved the inverted LCD display. Of course I have to remove the residue and the old film doesn't stick perfect, but its only a test. I have ordered some new single-side adhesive LCD polarzing film to complete the job. Will post pics when done.

[Meteorite_Marty]

Here's my test phase on my "practice" deck. I only had the width of the rectangle display to use, since I had to turn it 90 degrees to get the blackout effect. I plugged it in, and the text is white (keep in mind, I have done a white LED replacement on my deck already). The bumps and dots you see on the right side of the display is leftover glue residue, which I will clean up later once I put the final polarizing film in place.

[Sodium Duck]

Looks promising so far marty. Where are you getting your film from?

[Meteorite_Marty]

Looks promising so far marty. Where are you getting your film from?

I went with 3DLens.com, 17". I need room to play, since I will be doing 2 decks, plus I need rotation freedom to find out where the polarizing blacks out the display. Their products specifically say for use with LCDs, and have adhesive backing on one side, which will make my installation more like factory. Pricey after the exchange rate and shipping to Canada. I will likely sell my surplus stock to anyone here that wants it.

[Sodium Duck]

I'm really interested to see how it comes out. I ordered mine from Edmund Optics. Just a 2" X 2" sheet... too much money... lol

[Sodium Duck]

Got my film today. I'm going to do the install tomorrow when I have some free time.

PK, I'll try and take some pics for you. I think I know how to get behind the board, but we'll see.

[Sodium Duck]

Pics for PK - very huge. Sorry about the blurriness, they looked a lot cleaner on my camera's display. It doesn't really matter though, there aren't any jumpers to be seen. Zip. Sorry PK. :frown:

Finished inversion pics in a few minutes. Test so far looks good. Not as much contrast as I was hoping for though. The polarizer is a little weak. Maybe some brighter LED's will help?

[eTiMaGo]

dang, forgot to ask you, is the speedo needle tinted red, or is there a red LED to light it up that color? :wink:

[Sodium Duck]

The needle is clear plastic, and seems to have a thin red film that is either on top, or embedded in the plastic.

[Sodium Duck]

I used two small drops of epoxy to secure the film in place.

Very disappointing results. Driving without the plastic cover on the gauges, it was fine. But once the plastic cover went on, the visibility went to shit. I even tried doubling up the polarizers, but it went to black. I guess I'll live with it for now. Maybe I'll just splurge on a cluster with tach - only 600 dollars right? lol

Maybe it will be better at night.

[||)) (o) ||\||]

^ Its just painted red. You can easily remove it with acetone. Getting to the center of the needle is a different story though.

[CTScott]

I used two small drops of epoxy to secure the film in place.

Very disappointing results. Driving without the plastic cover on the gauges, it was fine. But once the plastic cover went on, the visibility went to shit. I even tried doubling up the polarizers, but it went to black. I guess I'll live with it for now. Maybe I'll just splurge on a cluster with tach - only 600 dollars right? lol

Maybe it will be better at night.


I think you need to upgrade the backlight LEDs. With the smoked lens in front of the reverse contrast LCD it will require more lumens to have the text be as bright as the background was...

[Sodium Duck]

thanks sodium, but i think its still possible , look at certain pads on the pcb they look like they are there for something. also isn't there a small module that snaps into the connector?

Nope, the big rectangle is what the LCD itself connects to with those long pins. Then there are the three LED's, and the push pad for controlling the display. Those are the only things that I can see that are related to the LCD, but I'm not electrical engineer, *shrug*.

[Sodium Duck]

I think you need to upgrade the backlight LEDs. With the smoked lens in front of the reverse contrast LCD it will require more lumens to have the text be as bright as the background was...

I think it would help, too. Marty said he'd be willing to send me some of his scraps though, so I am hoping to try that first if all goes well with him.

[Sodium Duck]

That's the board that goes on the back of the main circuit board. It is where you connect one of the two cables to the cluster. It doesn't have anything to do with the LCD as far as I can tell. They're completely separate.

[IllusionX]

i just remember i had done this in my echo..

but the job was easy, it was simply taking the LCD out, invert that plastic on top, and voila.. Visibility was 100% during the day. Not to mention the LCD lights up during the day too... in amber.

http://illusionx.dyndns.org/echo2005/greendash379.JPG

[Sodium Duck]

You just flipped it around? I thought you have to rotate it.

[IllusionX]

rotate?

when i took it apart, the other plastic just fell out, so i flip it over, and put it back together... i might try it with the yaris.. i'll get back if it works.

but as i saw the last time i took it off.. it seem like it was just a thin film glued on it..

[CTScott]

Flipping works the same as rotating with linear polarization.

LCD manufacturers used to just sandwich the polarizing film, so you could just flip it. Now they all seem to glue them (probably because most of what they make are now frameless ones).

[Meteorite_Marty]

Flipping does nothing on my radio. I had to remove the film (which has adhesive), and turn it 90 degrees.

Btw... I just got my new 17" polarizing sheet from 3Dlens.com. Fast delivery!!!

Tried it up against my radio and it seems the polarizing will be dark enough to invert the display. Will apply it tonight, and post pics.

[Sodium Duck]

Wow - that was fast! Can't wait to see how it looks.

So will your inversion be black background with green letters?

[Sodium Duck]

Oh, and how thick is the material? The one from Edmund Optics was pretty thick, maybe about 10 sheets of paper I'd say. Not very flexible at all.

[CTScott]

I've been doing some experimentation with LCDs. I have a reflective one (the black on white type with no backlight) and a transmissive one (black on white with a green backlight, hence black on green).

With the reflective one I can flip the polarizer to invert the characters. With the transmissive one flipping has no effect (I have to rotate the polarizer to invert).

In doing some reading, reflective LCDs use one clear polarizer on the front surface. Transmissive ones use a second on the back.

I took the transmissive one, pulled off the rear film and flipped it. After doing so I could also flip the front and the entire display was inverted and twice as bright as with the rear not flipped and the front rotated.

[Sodium Duck]

And we have the transmissive type for the gas gauge, correct?

[CTScott]

Here are some pictures:

Here is the normal mode for the LCD:
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo163/ctscott329/LCD/R-SideAF-SideA.jpg

Here is the front and rear both flipped:
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo163/ctscott329/LCD/R-SideBF-SideB.jpg

Here is rear normal, front rotated 90 on side A:
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo163/ctscott329/LCD/R-SideAF-90SideB.jpg

Here is rear normal, front rotated 90 on side B:
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo163/ctscott329/LCD/R-SideAF-90SideA.jpg

[CTScott]

And we have the transmissive type for the gas gauge, correct?

Correct - Gas gauge (and the radio display) are both transmissive. Hence the reason that flipping just one doesn't work.

[Meteorite_Marty]

Wow - that was fast! Can't wait to see how it looks.

So will your inversion be black background with green letters?

Black background with WHITE letters. I did a radio LED mod. My entire dash, heater controls, door lock, gear shifter are matched. NO MORE GREEN!!!

[Meteorite_Marty]

Oh, and how thick is the material? The one from Edmund Optics was pretty thick, maybe about 10 sheets of paper I'd say. Not very flexible at all.

Its a film. Rigid, but as thin as one sheet of paper.

[Sodium Duck]

Scott, you playing with your OBDII port? What are you brewing over there!? =]

[CTScott]

Scott, you playing with your OBDII port? What are you brewing over there!? =]

That's my home brew ScanGauge. It's not packaged and the LCD is socketed, so it's a good test platform for monkeying with LCDs.

[CTScott]

When you put the ES film on your gas gauge, did you notice the effect in the pictures, where when rotated the film works on either side, but one much better than the other?

[Sodium Duck]

I did a test where I just held the film up to the LCD, both sides and both directions, and didn't notice any difference. *shrug* maybe it's just me?

[Sodium Duck]

You know, I still have one more 2" X 2" film... maybe I'll try replacing the back...

[Meteorite_Marty]

Here are my pictures of my completed test radio deck. I also took some comparison shots with my main radio deck, which I will do later. Test deck is the one with cracked button.

[Meteorite_Marty]

Here's some "before" shots of my live deck. Keep in mind, I have a WHITE LED modification on this deck.

[Meteorite_Marty]

Here are some "after" shots of my test radio deck. These still have the stock green LEDs.

[Sodium Duck]

So the last two are day shots of your inversion? Looks like you have the same problem as me. The night shots look awesome at least. That's really cool with the black on green. Are you going to go for it on your modded deck?

[Meteorite_Marty]

So the last two are day shots of your inversion? Looks like you have the same problem as me. The night shots look awesome at least. That's really cool with the black on green. Are you going to go for it on your modded deck?

I have no problems whatsoever. Visibility is perfect in daylight.

[Sodium Duck]

Awesome!

[Meteorite_Marty]

I have no problems whatsoever. Visibility is perfect in daylight.

I take it back. If your viewing angle changes, you will get anything from a grey, to purple, to a rainbow-like display. The display is not consistent, when viewing angle changes.

I might go back to the stock LCD display. Chock this up to experience.

Btw.... I have NO spare film for Sodium Duck. It took me so many attempts to avoid bubbling in the adhesive. I used almost all of what I have.

[CTScott]

I take it back. If your viewing angle changes, you will get anything from a grey, to purple, to a rainbow-like display. The display is not consistent, when viewing angle changes.

I might go back to the stock LCD display. Chock this up to experience.

Btw.... I have NO spare film for Sodium Duck. It took me so many attempts to avoid bubbling in the adhesive. I used almost all of what I have.

Did you do anything with the rear film? With the experimentation that I did, if the front and rear film are both flipped, rather than one being rotated, the viewing angle is not affected.

[JustAnotherAsian]

awesome mod idea for any lcd. i didn't think of the radio.

heck, i wonder if my ti-83 will do the trick. lol.

[Meteorite_Marty]

Did you do anything with the rear film? With the experimentation that I did, if the front and rear film are both flipped, rather than one being rotated, the viewing angle is not affected.

Its strange. On my test deck, the viewing angle is not affected. I did the exact same procedure on my live deck and I have the viewing angle problem. I sliced the film the same direction each time. Perhaps since the decks are different models (6CD model versus 1CD),maybe the LCD displays are different.

I am not sure what films you are mentioning. Front and Rear? There is only one polarizing layer on the LCDs that I have been working with.

[Sodium Duck]

LCD's have two polarizers. I think this pic is the right kind to show it.

1. Vertical filter film to polarize the light as it enters.
2. Glass substrate with ITO electrodes. The shapes of these electrodes will determine the dark shapes that will appear when the LCD is turned on. Vertical ridges are etched on the surface so the liquid crystals are in line with the polarized light.
3. Twisted nematic liquid crystals.
4. Glass substrate with common electrode film (ITO) with horizontal ridges to line up with the horizontal filter.
5. Horizontal filter film to block/allow through light.
6. Reflective surface to send light back to viewer.

[Meteorite_Marty]

LCD's have two polarizers. I think this pic is the right kind to show it.

1. Vertical filter film to polarize the light as it enters.
2. Glass substrate with ITO electrodes. The shapes of these electrodes will determine the dark shapes that will appear when the LCD is turned on. Vertical ridges are etched on the surface so the liquid crystals are in line with the polarized light.
3. Twisted nematic liquid crystals.
4. Glass substrate with common electrode film (ITO) with horizontal ridges to line up with the horizontal filter.
5. Horizontal filter film to block/allow through light.
6. Reflective surface to send light back to viewer.


The radio seems to have only one layer that can be peeled off to affect polarization. On the other side of the LCD, is the side that is exposed in your car, and is a rough texture surface built onto the glass (I think). Again, the weird thing is for me, is that I peeled the same layers off from both decks, cut and applied the new film the same way, but achieve different results. :iono:

[Meteorite_Marty]

By the way Sodium Duck, I am getting a new 17" sheet from my supplier. Original was actually damaged in shipping, so I was unable to use the entire sheet. The damage had nothing to do with my results. At least I have another chance to offer scraps to you later on.

[Sodium Duck]

Cool thanks!

[goku87]

I used two small drops of epoxy to secure the film in place.

Very disappointing results. Driving without the plastic cover on the gauges, it was fine. But once the plastic cover went on, the visibility went to shit. I even tried doubling up the polarizers, but it went to black. I guess I'll live with it for now. Maybe I'll just splurge on a cluster with tach - only 600 dollars right? lol

Maybe it will be better at night.

WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH! Are you telling me that I can go get one of these gauge clusters w/ tach and it will tell me my mpg and the gear i'm in and temp and other cool stuff? I have a manual/3dr, does that mean no...? :(

[Sodium Duck]

I don't know what the cluster does. It's whatever the S model has on it. There's a ton of threads about it. I'm not even 100% sure it's possible as you'll read in other threads. It's a confusing topic.

[goku87]

I don't know what the cluster does. It's whatever the S model has on it. There's a ton of threads about it. I'm not even 100% sure it's possible as you'll read in other threads. It's a confusing topic.

hmmm, sounds like a major pain. oh well. lol.

[Sodium Duck]

Well, I decided to try and fix my LCD. Up until now, it was just not very visible from my past attempt at this. So I took my last polarizer out to the car and was just playing around with it. Well, if you turn it 45 degrees, you get black on white. Woot. Looks great. I don't know why I didn't think of this before. I took a few pictures to show it. It was hard to get the camera to show what it really looks like.

[enobmort42]

I'd love to do this when it warms up a bit outside. Does anyone know of any retail places that would carry it? I know there's the link, but I hateee waiting for shipping and such lol

[Sodium Duck]

There aren't really any, "retail stores," like Home Depot or Staples for example, that would carry an item like this. There's no steady market/need for it in the retail arena. If there is, I'd be really surprised. Online is the only way to go with this.