sound deadening: sq footage amount for 3dr

[goku87]

I was thinking about getting approx. 80 sq ft. Is that enough or should I get more? thanks in advance. :smile:

[supmet]

I think it depends on how extreme you want to go. I think you could get away with anything from 50-200 sq ft.

Check out this thread, there are 3 set ups and the people said how much they used.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10239

[talnlnky]

if you are careful about where you place it... you can get away with less, but really... just go with 30% more than what you think you'll need, and you'll be glad you did.

if you're going to do it.... do it ONCE... and only once. Each time you take your car apart the pieces become more and more prone to rattle. In a perfect world we could buy our cars with all the trim off & no stock sound system... so we could install all the mat we want, save time, and then put the trim pieces in place ONCE and never touch them again.

[goku87]

I think it depends on how extreme you want to go. I think you could get away with anything from 50-200 sq ft.

Check out this thread, there are 3 set ups and the people said how much they used.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10239

awesome. thanks!

if you are careful about where you place it... you can get away with less, but really... just go with 30% more than what you think you'll need, and you'll be glad you did.

if you're going to do it.... do it ONCE... and only once. Each time you take your car apart the pieces become more and more prone to rattle. In a perfect world we could buy our cars with all the trim off & no stock sound system... so we could install all the mat we want, save time, and then put the trim pieces in place ONCE and never touch them again.

that would indeed be cool.

[goku87]

and one more question: is there a major benifit from doing the roof?

i've read that it varies depending on vehicle, and i was thinking, being a hatchback the roof is probably pretty well reinforced so it might not have that much vibration to begin with.

[sqcomp]

I'd say that depends on how extreme the system is. I'll be doing my roof simply because I'm a little crazy about my noise floor...noting that the Yaris is a LOUD vehicle. I'll only have two 12" woofers though...with NO room taken from the center of the trunk.

[fuji]

As another person who has used extensive sound dampening, it makes a big difference. Just remember what each material is for.

Dampeners - you do not need to apply this to all the surfaces. It is meant to cut down on the vibrations and noise carried by the metal. Covering a surface approx 75% should be just fine. The doors make a big difference.

Barriers - This a material you should try to get as much coverage as possible. I would recommend either second skin audio luxlury liner pro or Cascade audio VB-4 lead septum. Remember sound will find any cracks to leak through. Covering the floors and if you can access the firewall will make a huge difference.

Absorbers - does exactly what it sounds like they do. If you can find some memory foam on the internet, you can put it in the rear quarter panels and in the rear. Makes a pretty big difference as well. Do not use this in the doors as it will absorb water!

Take your time and the rewards are tremendous. My Yaris is far quieter than stock!

Another thing that can make a big difference is second skin audio liquid dampener. It is tough enough to use as a undercoat. It works really well in the wheel wells and can also be used as a undercoat. Road noise kills audio sounds!

[WolfWings]

and one more question: is there a major benifit from doing the roof?

i've read that it varies depending on vehicle, and i was thinking, being a hatchback the roof is probably pretty well reinforced so it might not have that much vibration to begin with.

Our roof is a single, unreinforced expanse of sheetmetal. The headliner has large bars of styrofoam that keep it tensed and add some pressure to the roof-panel, but it's one giant metal cymbal. Laying a single layer of good-quality sound dampener is worth it, IMHO, especially if you go for something that's highly cost-effective like RaaMAT. I bought two rolls of it, and 6 yards of their closed-cell foam, went the 100% sealed route on both doors.

The real trick on doors is stick some mat down, make sure the windows work still, knock all over the door, stick more mat wherever it still goes 'ting' instead of 'thud' and keep going until your knuckles are sore or until your run out of mat. Only downside: Your doors will weigh a full 50% more than they started with, so they're noticably harder to 'get going' to pull closed. I only did my drivers-side door before winter set in and am about to finish up the passenger-side door, I'll get a recording of the noise of slamming one door versus the other, and knocking on the door-panel all over to demonstrate the difference. As for the back area, having a daring friend with a good ear willing to ride around in the naked rear to listen for where the noise comes from will let you find out where to layer more soundproofing down in a hurry.

Side-tip if you don't have to worry about power locks and what-not: A tube of silicone sealant for exterior windows, and a couple of the giant-sized 'for sale' signs from wal mart are excellent for putting down a semi-permenant barrier to fully seal your door with soundproofing. Careful trimming, bead of silicone, go grab a sandwich while it sets up a bit, work the locks and door-handle repeatedly to make sure it's not jammed anywhere, then go to town laying down a double-layer of narrow strips of the sound dampener, then a layer of the foam, good to go.

[pennyracer]

lay it thick you cant go wrong with sound deadning a yais :) http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/boydstir2291/RANDOM-INSTALLS482.jpg

[sqcomp]

Penny...that picture is a thing of beauty! Is that yours? If so, how much deadening did you use?

Another idea that is proven is to buy a dash mat. Not just a dash mat but also add some ensolite, Dynaliner (or Extremeliner), or Luxury Liner (or LL pro)...trim it to fit the bottom of the mat and glue it on and stich it in.

This is especially helpful if you have pillar mounted speakers as it helps reduce sound reflections from the windshield and off the dash itself.

[pennyracer]

a hell of a lot :) yes thats mine i love sound deadning the car its almost better than the stereo system it self maybe not i have a pretty nice set up but its always the way to go to help the kill rattles and road noise maybe you have seen these pics before this is car and you need all the sound proofing you can get in a yaris


http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/boydstir2291/RANDOM-INSTALLS409.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/boydstir2291/myyarisbackenclse-2r.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/boydstir2291/myyarisbackenclse-1.jpg

[dccurrent]

So where is the most effective place to lay down some sound deadener? I am trying to reduce engine and road noise. I assume the doors are a good first place to apply the adhesive. Am I correct in my assessment?

[talnlnky]

firewall - though it is a bitch
wheel wells/strut area
floor boards
doors

if you have more time and material...
side panels (especially on the Liftback)
and roof.


the great thing about the yaris is that our roof is REALLY small, so the noise from it is nothing compared to say an SUV.


I'm looking forward to adding 20sq ft to each door and sealing them up, 20more sq ft to the firewall.

and then adding the window vent shades (which people claim cut down on wind noise)

When cruising on a nice road I mainly only hear wind noise.... Car is alot quieter than stock (when I run stock PSI in the tires... i'm run 40+ now).

[dccurrent]

firewall - though it is a bitch
wheel wells/strut area
floor boards
doors

if you have more time and material...
side panels (especially on the Liftback)
and roof.


the great thing about the yaris is that our roof is REALLY small, so the noise from it is nothing compared to say an SUV.


I'm looking forward to adding 20sq ft to each door and sealing them up, 20more sq ft to the firewall.

and then adding the window vent shades (which people claim cut down on wind noise)

When cruising on a nice road I mainly only hear wind noise.... Car is alot quieter than stock (when I run stock PSI in the tires... i'm run 40+ now).

Thanks for the quick reply. I am already familiar with how to apply the material to the doors, but for the life of me I can't find not one source online that tells you how to apply it to the firewall. Do you know of any source that explains the process? To tell you the truth I am not even sure what constitutes a firewall to begin with!

For the wheel wells, what do you recommend? I know they make sprays you can apply, but there are so many it's very difficult to choose wisely when doing this for the first time with no experience.

I have also read that people applied material to the hood of their cars. Is this effective in any way in reducing cabin noise? Sorry for bombarding you with questions! Thanks again.

[talnlnky]

Thanks for the quick reply. I am already familiar with how to apply the material to the doors, but for the life of me I can't find not one source online that tells you how to apply it to the firewall. Do you know of any source that explains the process? To tell you the truth I am not even sure what constitutes a firewall to begin with!

For the wheel wells, what do you recommend? I know they make sprays you can apply, but there are so many it's very difficult to choose wisely when doing this for the first time with no experience.

I have also read that people applied material to the hood of their cars. Is this effective in any way in reducing cabin noise? Sorry for bombarding you with questions! Thanks again.

Firewall- basically, the part that starts as the floor board, but then ends up being vertical instead of horizontal. The sheet metal that divides the engine compartment from your feet/legs/knees.
You pull up the carpet from the floor boards, and get up underneath the dash as much as possible.... Not going to lie... its a bitch on toyotas.


for around the wheels... two things you can do, Buy sprays and spray it from the outside of the car (have to remove the wheels and jack up the car). On the inside you just lay down mat & foam if you have it too.

[WolfWings]

On the 3-door liftback, the most 'bang for your buck' areas are in my experience:

The 'rear door' areas if you have the 3-door model. Basically the cavernous area behind the rear speakers, layer that down thick, and it's relatively easy to get that body panel off and back on again.

The rear hatch, actually. Once the above was handled, that was the next major area of noise we found. Didn't seal it up, wasn't needed. Just use lots of small bits, and the rap test a LOT. Suddenly it'll have enough mass in the right places and no more rattle.

Driver-side door.

Rear wheel-wells on the inside, though this requires taking the rear seat and rear seat-belts out including the 3rd-passenger one, which isn't that easy.

Passenger-side door. Make it more important than the rear wheel-wells on the inside if you usually have multiple people in the car.

If you've done all this, you have everything except the headliner removed already. Drop it, do the roof while you're in there. All this so far (excluding the doors) is one day's work for 2 rank newbs to accomplish easilly. One door fully sealed and foamed to hell and back is 2 hours work or so for a single person, again assuming rank newb.

Only thing I have left to do is yank the front seats out and the dashboard (I'll be doing that all at once since I need to run some in-dash stuff) and hit the firewall and front floorboards then, along with the passenger-side door.

[dccurrent]

Firewall- basically, the part that starts as the floor board, but then ends up being vertical instead of horizontal. The sheet metal that divides the engine compartment from your feet/legs/knees.
You pull up the carpet from the floor boards, and get up underneath the dash as much as possible.... Not going to lie... its a bitch on toyotas.


for around the wheels... two things you can do, Buy sprays and spray it from the outside of the car (have to remove the wheels and jack up the car). On the inside you just lay down mat & foam if you have it too.

Thank you very much!

[dccurrent]

Does anyone know how much clearance there is between the window ans the outer skin of the door? I found some closed cell foam online and it comes in various thicknesses. I was wondering how thick I can go without interfering with the window rolling down.

You can find the stuff here:http://www.closedcellfoams.com/polyethylene.html

[pennyracer]

i don't think that foam will work near as nice as the dynmat or others plus once you feel the extra weight on the door as it closes and it does not tang like a aluminum can it will sound like a Lexus door shutting very nice if you want to kill road noise and rattles

[talnlnky]

i would assume you'd have quiet a bit of room.... I haven't opened up the yaris doors yet.. but i'd be surprised if you can't fit 1".... my mazda was more like 2" (in places).

i'd say go with 1/2" and lay that foam over the top of a layer or two of mat.

[sqcomp]

Oooh! Nice little link. Personally I'll use Ensolite, it's more flexible and geared more for reducing resonances and adsorbing sound.

Here's something to look at:

"Polyethylene foam is a strong and resilient closed cell foam . Ideally suited as the material or part of a material required in products requiring a shock absorbing, this closed cell foam padding is also a great way to diminish the effects of vibration and dampening. Polyethylene is available as closed cell foam sheets that are well-suited for use as insulation, barrier or buoyancy component, and as a material for cushioning products in packaging applications. Polyethylene foam's excellent buoyancy allows it to be used in flotation equipment, and other nautical products."

"Ensolite, its durable, flexible and resilient closed cell foam with a medium feel. Its squishy characteristic makes it great for exercise mats, camping pads, boat cushions. Excellent for use in leisure, marine/flotation, industrial and automotive applications. "

I think we're looking at the difference between the poly being much more stiff of a foam versus the Ensolite being more of an absorbing material.

The foams that are used mostly in car audio applications for sound reduction are Second Skin Luxury Liner/Pro, Ensolite, Dynamat's Dynaliner and Extremeliner among others. The Ensolite you buy from Raamaudio is the least expensive.

[supmet]

I haven't opened up the yaris doors yet..

Well then how do you drive it?

sorry couldn't resist.

[dccurrent]

i don't think that foam will work near as nice as the dynmat or others plus once you feel the extra weight on the door as it closes and it does not tang like a aluminum can it will sound like a Lexus door shutting very nice if you want to kill road noise and rattles

I also realized that this foam would need to be treated with adhesive in order to be applied. But, do you mean that the Dynamat will make my doors heavy like a Lexus or the foam I linked to? The foam I linked to comes in different densities so it can get quite heavy in a hurry. And, just for the record, I want my doors heavy that close with a thud!

i would assume you'd have quiet a bit of room.... I haven't opened up the yaris doors yet.. but i'd be surprised if you can't fit 1".... my mazda was more like 2" (in places).
i'd say go with 1/2" and lay that foam over the top of a layer or two of mat.

That is a fair assessment. I'll go with that size and play it safe, especially since I can compensate lack of thickness with a higher density foam.

Oooh! Nice little link. Personally I'll use Ensolite, it's more flexible and geared more for reducing resonances and adsorbing sound.

Here's something to look at:

"Polyethylene foam is a strong and resilient closed cell foam . Ideally suited as the material or part of a material required in products requiring a shock absorbing, this closed cell foam padding is also a great way to diminish the effects of vibration and dampening. Polyethylene is available as closed cell foam sheets that are well-suited for use as insulation, barrier or buoyancy component, and as a material for cushioning products in packaging applications. Polyethylene foam's excellent buoyancy allows it to be used in flotation equipment, and other nautical products."

"Ensolite, its durable, flexible and resilient closed cell foam with a medium feel. Its squishy characteristic makes it great for exercise mats, camping pads, boat cushions. Excellent for use in leisure, marine/flotation, industrial and automotive applications. "

I think we're looking at the difference between the poly being much more stiff of a foam versus the Ensolite being more of an absorbing material.

The foams that are used mostly in car audio applications for sound reduction are Second Skin Luxury Liner/Pro, Ensolite, Dynamat's Dynaliner and Extremeliner among others. The Ensolite you buy from Raamaudio is the least expensive.

It seems their gymnast foams are similar to ensolite and they mention it in their description.
http://www.closedcellfoams.com/gymnasticrubber.html




The problem I see now is applying an adhesive to the surface of this foam. I looked at Damplifier (which is generally the same thing, closed cell foam) and it's quite pricey, but does come with adhesive backing. Ah, decisions, decisions.

[bdc87]

I did the sides/doors and back/trunk/hatch with 50ft. The only thing left would be the front floorpan and possibly roof. I would recommend the front floorpan as this the only area sound now comes from and plan to do this when I replace the seats.

[WolfWings]

The Ensolite takes about a can of spray-adhesive; RaaMAudio sells that too, they sell three things. Foam by the yard, spray-adhesive by the can FOR the foam, and self-adhesive mass-adding dampener by the roll. Nothing comes close for the money, even if you use twice as much of the RaaMat it's not as expensive. :-)

[talnlnky]

i actually found the exact same brand of spray adheisive that raamaudio sells at a local fabrics shop.

The foam doesn't add weight...well, not the kind of weight that matters... foam is for absorbtion... mat is to lower the resonance... which in turn makes the panel require more acoustic energy before it'll start to vibrate.

Foam inside your door will help alot in soaking up the backwave from the speaker.... which will help improve bass response.

[WolfWings]

Yeah, aside from the mat, RaaM isn't anything you can't find elsewhere off-the-shelf. They only 'make' one product, and sell the two products alongside that the majority of their users will use as well. It's a good business model, IMHO, very clean niche to sit in and I'm glad he's there.

The foam is the real key to making the music sound good, the mat is what gives everything that ultra-satisfying 'thump' when you close the door. I'm definately stripping out the front seats and forward carpet and matting the front firewall this summer though, the engine is (by 6-12db) the loudest noise you hear inside the car at this point.

I will say this though, the 2009 Yaris Liftbacks are much quieter inside than the 2007 models for road-noise. Just went with a friend to pick up theirs, we were able to do back-to-backs with my matted 2007, and his 2009, and what we remembered of my 2007 before I matted it. The 2009's so still rattle-clank just as badly on things like the doors and sides though.

[dccurrent]

I have decided to go with 1/4 inch neoprene to act as a sound barrier. I did some quick research online and it seems that this material beats out a lot of the "brands" floating around. Ensolite is good, but falls a little short of the neoprene. The material is just as impervious and resistant to water, mold, and rot as any other closed cell foam. It's a little more expensive but I think it's worth it.

[Alien Mantis]

This stuff works great for sticking your sound dampening panels with:

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/3m-super-77-1675-fl-oz-multipurpose-spray-adhesive-77-24.html

[pennyracer]

all interior panels were lined also if 102 sq ft sounds a bit high for some people

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/boydstir2291/yarisdynalinertreatment.jpg