JD Power 3 yr dependability study

[roxy1]

latest jd power long term (3 yr)dependability study. i guess i might hold off on my vw polo dreams. i mean, c'mon, are VW and suzuki TRYING to be bad!?

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/19/jaguar-and-buick-upset-lexus-in-j-d-power-2009-vehicle-dependab/

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-jd-power-vehicle-dependability-study/1439579/

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb313/roxy84_photos/vds_1.jpg

[supmet]

Shakes out to less than 2000 vehicles per car manufacturer on average... Also, as someone pointed out in the second link, the average jaguar driver is 114, drives their car 12 miles a month, and never goes above 25 mph. More or less, the same goes for buick and cadillac.

47,000 participants without properly listed demographics is pretty much useless in the world of statistics.

[andruboz]

everything isuzu sells is made in a gm plant and its 50 points worse than chevy? how do they do that?

[supmet]

everything isuzu sells is made in a gm plant and its 50 points worse than chevy? how do they do that?

wondering the same for nissan/infiniti

[roxy1]

everything isuzu sells is made in a gm plant and its 50 points worse than chevy? how do they do that?

...but they are not engineered there, are they? poor engineering/design is sure to bring problems no matter who builds the car.

of course, from a research methods standpoint, the study is not the most sound in the world, but i think the sample is big enough to have some validity. we all know those makers at the bottom are building crap (dependability-wise, not necessarily fun/useful-wise) cars.

[tomato]

Wow, what happened to Mazda?!!

[roxy1]

Wow, what happened to Mazda?!!

nothing. my recollection is they have always been in the bottom half. they are good at scoring well on the jd power 90 day surveys, but that isnt too helpful in the long run.

[CompanyXPaladin]

Wow, what happened to Mazda?!!

Ford bought 'em. In.. 1997? They were never THAT reliable, but as far as I know the only time Ford has been good for reliability is when they bought Jaguar and finally Jaguars stopped leaking oil. As much. :biggrin:

[Shroomster]

why is scion all the way down there?

my only other concern about this is what categorizes a "problem". most people surveyed might list a blown fuse or windshield wiper blade going bad as a "problem".


which I can see as a problem with the new sebring/avenger third brake light on every single car....

[yaris-me]

Shakes out to less than 2000 vehicles per car manufacturer on average... Also, as someone pointed out in the second link, the average jaguar driver is 114, drives their car 12 miles a month, and never goes above 25 mph. More or less, the same goes for buick and cadillac.

47,000 participants without properly listed demographics is pretty much useless in the world of statistics.

I agree, demographics are important.:thumbsup: I'd like to add another point. As production increases so is the likely hood of decreased quality.

[roxy1]

I'd like to add another point. As production increases so is the likely hood of decreased quality.

this does not need to be the case with proper QC procedures in place. toyota's production has increased, and they build a ton of cars. why are they holding a similarly high spot as they did in the previous long term study?

one thing seems clear. i was looking at the VDS from previous yrs, and the industry average (problems per 100 vehicles) has dropped dramatically over the past decade and the gap between the top and bottom has dropped dramatically as well. the numbers toyota and honda had in the 2005 VDS study would have put them below the current industry average.

so, its all relative. the numbers from the makes at the bottom of the current survey are close to the industry average numbers from only 4 yrs ago.

[REM]

The good news: I own a Toyota.
The bad news: I also own a VW.

[roxy1]

The good news: I own a Toyota.
The bad news: I also own a VW.


even though they are all improving over time, vw will have to have a hellaciously good warranty before i will buy the Polo. (if they do, i will, but im talkin bumber to bumper at least 50k and 100k powertrain w/ very few limitations)

[yaris-me]

this does not need to be the case with proper QC procedures in place. toyota's production has increased, and they build a ton of cars. why are they holding a similarly high spot as they did in the previous long term study?

one thing seems clear. i was looking at the VDS from previous yrs, and the industry average (problems per 100 vehicles) has dropped dramatically over the past decade and the gap between the top and bottom has dropped dramatically as well. the numbers toyota and honda had in the 2005 VDS study would have put them below the current industry average.

so, its all relative. the numbers from the makes at the bottom of the current survey are close to the industry average numbers from only 4 yrs ago.


Should be, would be, could be, there is a point of diminishing return where the cost of quality control impacts the price of competition. As production increases the cost of quality control increases to the point of diminishing profits.

[roxy1]

[QUOTE=yaris-me;270705]Should be, would be, could beQUOTE]

it is. toyota has proven it over time. their production has risen steadily over decades while quality control has been maintained. we shall see if it holds up as they continue to put out more cars. its about workplace engineering practices when it comes to improving QC and increasing production w/o incurring similarly increased costs. hyundai has figured this out and i think ford is on their way as well.

[Shroomster]

why is scion all the way down there?

my only other concern about this is what categorizes a "problem". most people surveyed might list a blown fuse or windshield wiper blade going bad as a "problem".


no one else thinks that is odd?

[Kal-El]

This type of survey isn't a strong indicator of long term dependability. It's really just counting problems within the first three years and not distinguishing problems. A blown transmission gets the same weight as a blown light bulb. :rolleyes: I find Consumer Reports more reliable as they document everything separately over time but still they lack in many areas.

Odd to see Scion way down on the list. :confused: Because just a few months ago, the xD was named the most trouble free/dependable car you could buy, period. And I'm sure the tC and xB aren't that bad.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/22/autos/cr_best_reliability/index.htm

[texkid]

Eh....I rely my "dependability" surveys on the amount of curse words that comes out of my family's mouth.

Example: 1987 Chevy Cavalier = 5 curse words from my dad; 1994 Ford F-150 = only 3; BUT a 2008 Toyota Yaris = 2 curse words so far (when the OEM oil filter spilled oil; the front spring wouldn't come off).

[YarisSedan]

The shop i work at usually does mostly toyota, honda, and nissan. Whenever those cars come in for repairs they are usually minor. The volkswagens that come in are for MAJOR problems. One last week it had 60k miles and only few years old a golf. I guess thier transmissions dont use a torque converter but a sort of pressure plate. The thing got cracked and was making a massive rattling noise against the bellhousing. Costed the customer a substantial amount of money to replace a 18 dollar part. Since we have to remove the lower frame and transmission out to fix it.

Thier PCV systems on thier older one are above the maf sensor. but a few inches. but the tubing is at a huge degree. And the throttle body is about a foot away. So this causes the oil to seep down and contaminate the MAF sensor. Sensor is maybe 500 bucks for a new one. But usually this knocks out the catalitic converter and maybe a O2 at the same time. I actually have a spare MAF sensor for volkswagen in my tool box to easily test them when they come in.

Another thing is thier vacuum hoses that run everywhere are made out of some especially cheap material. That they happen to break all the time. Especially the ones near the firewall. And on top of that they coat them with some cheap fabric that prevents you from seeing if it is broken or not. Why i do not know.

Also for some reason thier wheel bearings tend to fail as well as thier front lower control arm bushings.

I mean i could go on and on on the retarded thigns i have seen volkswagen has done to thier cars. But i can say 95 percent of all volkswagens that come to my shop usually are for a check engine light. Or some abnormal noise. I never see any of these on the toyotas or hondas that come in.

I mean ive heard of manufactured defects but come on volkswagen how many do you really need.

[REM]

The shop i work at usually does mostly toyota, honda, and nissan. Whenever those cars come in for repairs they are usually minor. The volkswagens that come in are for MAJOR problems. One last week it had 60k miles and only few years old a golf. I guess thier transmissions dont use a torque converter but a sort of pressure plate. The thing got cracked and was making a massive rattling noise against the bellhousing. Costed the customer a substantial amount of money to replace a 18 dollar part. Since we have to remove the lower frame and transmission out to fix it.

Thier PCV systems on thier older one are above the maf sensor. but a few inches. but the tubing is at a huge degree. And the throttle body is about a foot away. So this causes the oil to seep down and contaminate the MAF sensor. Sensor is maybe 500 bucks for a new one. But usually this knocks out the catalitic converter and maybe a O2 at the same time. I actually have a spare MAF sensor for volkswagen in my tool box to easily test them when they come in.

Another thing is thier vacuum hoses that run everywhere are made out of some especially cheap material. That they happen to break all the time. Especially the ones near the firewall. And on top of that they coat them with some cheap fabric that prevents you from seeing if it is broken or not. Why i do not know.

Also for some reason thier wheel bearings tend to fail as well as thier front lower control arm bushings.

I mean i could go on and on on the retarded thigns i have seen volkswagen has done to thier cars. But i can say 95 percent of all volkswagens that come to my shop usually are for a check engine light. Or some abnormal noise. I never see any of these on the toyotas or hondas that come in.

I mean ive heard of manufactured defects but come on volkswagen how many do you really need.

I took my VW in about one week after I got it because it was making a horrible noise at highway speeds. (It was new.) The dealer found a walnut in the brakes. I didn’t tell them that I have a huge oak tree in my yard that I park under; hey, they didn’t ask. I just acted surprised. I still wonder how that nut got in there. Maybe a squirrel put it there?

I also had a water leak through the sunroof, that one wasn't a squirrel's fault. VW fixed it, but it does worry me because I had water problems in a previous car: a Pontiac that smelled an awful lot like citrus.