24 Hours of LeMons: LeMons South 2009

[Loren]

It's that time again!

If you don't know about LeMons, read here:
http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/

This will be my third LeMons race, I did LeMons South at Carolina Motorsports Park last July, and LeMons Detroit(ish) in Toledo, Ohio a couple months after that. This race will be with the same team I ran with the first time, a Tampa area team started by one of the local BMW guys.

I've set up a Facebook page to put updates and photos and whatever on, give it a look:
Team Euro Trash on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/24-Hours-of-Lemons-Team-Euro-Trash/74072729458)

We hit the road tomorrow!

PS: This has nothing to do with Yarii... but you wouldn't want to do this in your Yaris, anyway!

[supmet]

lol... sounds crazy... your photobucket link chopped itself up

[Loren]

Fixed.

Yeah, it's one of the craziest and funnest things I've ever done!

[ChinoCharles]

Woah, Loren, you do endurance races? Awesome! Subscribed.

[supmet]

Woah, Loren, you do endurance races? Awesome! Subscribed.

endurance racing meets junkyard wars

[ChinoCharles]

LOL. There is some statistic about the amount of wear an engine takes in one of these. One endurance race is equal to 3 years of normal driving or something like that.

[Loren]

Hard to say. Much depends on how you drive the car. If you drive conservatively in an effort to preserve the car and ensure that it finishes, it's not THAT hard on the car.

The last one I did was pretty rough on the engine, though. We were running a BMW 325es, which is factory rev-limited to about 4700. We had the ECU chipped to allow it to rev to 5200... then, 3 hours into the race, the shift linkage broke inside the transmission and left us stuck in 2nd gear! Now, LeMons races are typically fairly low speed, and this one was particularly slow. We might have gone 10-15 mph faster in 3rd gear, so it didn't cost us TOO much to stay in 2nd, but it was REALLY hard on the engine.

We drove that car for at least 16 hours at an almost constant 5000 rpm and it never missed a beat. BMW makes a stout engine!

[SailDesign]

Why did I just know you were a GRM kinda person? :smile:
Love the Lemons.

[YarisSedan]

My boss at my old job used to do this. He was telling me what there would be junkers at the end wher eyou would just sign over your pink slip and they would take the car for you. He also mentioned to be careful when cars are about to die they usually try to take out another car with them.

[Loren]

It's not uncommon for a team to prep a dirt cheap car with the intention of leaving it at the track when they're done with the race. If you've got the facilities to do things like all the roll cage work without incurring a lot of cost, it would be a heckuva way to go. (but for the rest of us, it cost $700-1000 to have the cage put into our "$500 car" and we're more reluctant to see them go!) Much less stressful to know that the car doesn't have to survive to fight another day. I've found LeMons to be pretty low-stress, anyway, though.

It's VERY liberating to be out racing with a bunch of other cars that nobody gives a shit about. I mean, yeah... you'll get a penalty if you hit another car, but it's not going to COST you anything, and nobody's really going to complain. It's unlike any other form of racing in that regard.

[SilverBack]

YES!! :headbang:

Only seen clips on YouTube. Someday soon I'll go to one of these events (and if I can find my first car I just might enter)

[Morgan]

A friend of mine here in NW Florida was trying to start up a team for the Louisana race with a $250 1985 celica but I think he missed registration and there was some other date conflict... totally leaves the race in SC open but looks like you guys did fairly well, looks like you left with the bmw ;) good luck on friday!

[Loren]

I'm sure every team says this, but... we could have won the SC race last year. The car was plenty fast enough (as is almost every LeMons car), had we not lost over 2 hours for mechanical difficulties, we'd have had a good shot. Lesson learned: Reliability is paramount, this is an endurance race, you can't win if the car isn't on the track!

But, yeah, the car survived with just a few more dents and scrapes. The engine was pretty well toasted, though. Overheated several times, run low on oil once, and generally beat to death... it had some pretty nasty bearing noise going on when we put it back on the trailer.

New engine for this race, though. Hopefully, all of our reliability issues are behind us!

[HTM Yaris]

Nice , I might have to stop by and check it out :w00t:

[kngrsll]

Nice , I might have to stop by and check it out :w00t:

Ben and James from HTM will be running a car, the Jewbaru

[eTiMaGo]

oh man these races look like so much fun, good luck out there :laugh:

[Thirty-Nine]

Awesome. Some day I'll do the LeMons ...

[Loren]

Facebook page is updated, complete with some photos. Link in previous post.

[cali yaris]

kuchta and I are forming a team in SoCal. We have a vehicle we got for $350 :eek:

[eTiMaGo]

kuchta and I are forming a team in SoCal. We have a vehicle we got for $350 :eek:

Please please let it be a salvaged totaled but driveable yaris? :biggrin:

[jkuchta]

Nope....MiniVan!!!

We were joking about putting in 4 race seats, so the WHOLE TEAM could ride at the same time:thumbup:!

[WolfWings]

If I ever go to one of these, I hope to go in something with a Jeep I6 or the old Slant-6 under the hood. If ever there were endurance engines, those would be it.

[Loren]

While a minivan would be fun in its own way, and would lend itself to all sorts of fun themes... they are big, heavy and not made for racing. If you didn't completely rebuild the brake system, you'd surely have to deal with break problems at the track. (we've seen some heavy FWD cars (an 80's Caddy comes to mind) that had to stop every hour or so to REPLACE their brakes... sometimes because they were so hot that they caught on FIRE.

I'd recommend something that's cheap, common and reliable. While the BMW's that I've been playing with are very fun cars, and can be made pretty reliable... parts are pricey. Look for something like a Ford Escort, or a small Mazda, Nissan or Toyota. Look at what's been running at the LeMons races. Unless you're planning on bringing spare EVERYTHING, there can be great benefit (both in borrowed parts and technical assistance) from running a car that there are 6 more of at the track!

PS: A well-prepped Escort is surprisingly fast.

[WolfWings]

So convert it into a Vanamino? That should lop off quite a bit of weight that way, though most minivans make a twin-turbo Supra's engine bay look spacious from what I've experienced.

[eTiMaGo]

hahah watching it online now (www.ustream.tv) go Eurotrash go!

[supmet]

hahah watching it online now (www.ustream.tv) go Eurotrash go!

I watched it for a minute and then the stream broke :(

Completely different than what I was expecting.... Those cars look and sound amazing for only being 500 bucks.. I was thinking there would be a bunch of beaters putt putting around breaking down on every turn.. But they are actually racing... lol

[Loren]

Racing and breaking and crashing... and black flag penalties and mayhem and fun.

We were doing really, really well today... until the car broke. I hate freaking complicated BMWs.

Here's another tip: If you're buying a car specifically to build for LeMons, get something SIMPLE. Drop dead simple. An old air-cooled VW. An old carburetted Ford or Chevy... something that's just stupid simple. Bring spares of critical parts for the ignition and fuel system (should be about 5 parts... fuel pump, carburettor, distributor, cap & rotor, plug wires). None of this "spending 6 hours to troubleshoot why the car will start, but not rev up... could be electrical, could be fuel, we're not sure" crap!

But, yes, LeMons is "real" racing. We rarely top 80 MPH, if that... but there's a lot of driving involved in keeping a car on the track while dodging 80-90 other cars with drivers of wildly varying degrees of experience. Actually turning somewhat fast lap times in those conditions is even harder... but a helluva lot of fun.

Going to bed now. Hopefully, the guys will get the car figured out sometime tomorrow morning and maybe I'll get another hour or so behind the wheel tomorrow.

[HTM Yaris]

Hey Loren , I stopped by pit # 5 or #6 whichever one it was on Sunday . I seen the car yall were driving but nobody was around . I watched the race a while then hung with some friends . I stopped back by after the car blew up on track . By then the car was loaded on the trailer , Didn't see anybody then either . Well except for some tall dude who lookin at me funny .

[tomato]

Good luck, Loren!

[Loren]

We had a running radio joke all the way there and back about stalls 5 and 6, 10-4. Yeah, we had 5 and 6 with the other Tampa guys who's car we towed up.

Sorry, I missed you. We gave up on the car around 10am, ran out for breakfast and got back just in time to go watch the curse. (which was excellent... I was happy to see those guys get crushed) We packed up, cleaned up and loaded up the car early so we could help the other guys load up and get on the road ASAP at the end of the day.

We were over at HQ watching the race and penalties when the fire happened. Wandered over to chat with that team and check out the carnage shortly after that, then went out for some lunch. We didn't hang around our pit too much on Sunday, not a lot was going on there. Tall dude might have been Barry, our team captain and car owner.

What did you think of the race? Wasn't it a hoot?

[Loren]

Good luck, Loren!
Um... you're a few days too late! The race was Saturday and Sunday. If you had wished us luck before then, maybe the car wouldn't have broken on Saturday. ;)

[tomato]

No wonder I can't find it on ustream!! :redface:

Oh, yeah, I'm at the end of the thread now ... Oooops. :redface:

[TLyttle]

You want tough, try a Toyota pigup if they are allowed. They are cheap, and seem to be blastproof. That's where I would start...

[Loren]

Various small pickups have been run in LeMons races. There was a Ranger in this one.

While being "fast" isn't necessarily a requirement to win, being "slow" isn't going to cut it, either. Pickups are heavy and don't exactly have "race ready" suspensions. It could be done, and it could be fun, but odds of being in the top 5 are not so great.

If you want Toyota, I'd be looking for an old RWD Celica or Corolla. Take as much weight out as possible, simplify the wiring to the bare minimum, replace every rubber hose on the car, put good brakes and decent tires on it, modify the suspension for good camber and go race! The key is to start with a dirt cheap and ugly car. Ugly so that it's believable that you bought it for $50-100. And if you buy it that cheap, you've got a $400 prep budget. They look really closely at the mechanical parts (engine, suspension, motor mounts, cooling system, etc), but not so much at wiring and switches, and not at all at fuel lines and such (fuel lines are safety).

Seriously, if anyone is planning to do this, run your plan past me. Having done three of these races, I know what you need to do to survive the race and how to get through BS judging without penalties.

[TLyttle]

You're right, Loren, and a buddy says, "To finish first, one must first finish." Attention to detail is paramount in any racing, endurance even moreso.

I suggested the pigup simply because of its built-in strength, availability, and simplicity. Around here, old Corollas (never mind Celicas) are getting rare and are usually really tired. The pigup I had (now the Lumbergini) really got lively once most of the heavy junk came out of it, and changing some component placement was even more helpful (battery etc).

Just remember: speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?

[Loren]

You're right, Loren, and a buddy says, "To finish first, one must first finish."

I've been saying that since I started prepping for One Lap in 2008. It is absolutely true in any form of endurance race, and especially so in LeMons. Speed doesn't even matter so much in LeMons as long as you can keep the car out there. You can't be super-slow... but consistency counts more than speed.

A clapped-out old Corolla would be perfect! Buy it for $50... or take it out of someone's yard for free (document with photos and a "bill-of-free"), then you've got a little bit of budget to put new bearings and rings in the engine. Rebuild the carb. Probably enough to put some new shocks on it, too. Carry a spare diff and transmission with you just in case (spares are not considered in judging, only what's ON the car), and you're golden. Remember that wheels, tires, brakes and all that are "safety" items and not part of your budget!

[HTM Yaris]

What did I think ? I found a 93 Toyota Paseo sport for $100 . Thats what I think . Hopefully when december rolls around I will have it ready .....

Thank Loren:headbang:

How does that movie line go "Just when you thought you were out of it , they pull you back in"

[cali yaris]

While a minivan would be fun in its own way, and would lend itself to all sorts of fun themes... they are big, heavy and not made for racing.

DUH

"Soccer Dads from Hell" comes to mind... :rolleyes:

[Loren]

What did I think ? I found a 93 Toyota Paseo sport for $100 . Thats what I think . Hopefully when december rolls around I will have it ready...
That will be an outstanding LeMon! Very lightweight, common Tercel parts fit on it, and it's a Toyota. It's great! Well done.

[WolfWings]

Now I'm eyeing a yard-rotting AMC Eagle I know in the area in a whole new light... 3000lbs, but 200ft-lbs of AWD...

I just dunno how well a AMC/Jeep 6-banger would survive for hours at WOT, but they're renowned for being durable old pushrod beasties and the one in my family's Jeep Comanche sure has proven that statement so far. Anyone ever being anything powered by that engine line that you know of to a LeMons?

[Morgan]

DUH

"Soccer Dads from Hell" comes to mind... :rolleyes:

historic people carrier races comes to my mind.... :smile:

[Loren]

Wolfie, I think the car is a poor choice, AWD = more parts to break. Maybe if the car is FREE... but still... even with a free car, you'll be investing a lot to go racing and take it from me, it sucks to go racing and not get to race because your POS car broke!

But, speaking of straight 6's... Playing with Bimmers has really given me respect for them. I was thinking something like an old slant 6 Dodge Dart would be a great LeMons car! Fairly light and small, stupid simple and reliable.

HTM, you need to step up your schedule and do the New Orleans race in June! I'm itching to do that race, and I don't think my team is doing another one until September. Lemme know. :)

[cali yaris]

We will be in the later of the two races in California if things go well.

[WolfWings]

Wolfie, I think the car is a poor choice, AWD = more parts to break. Maybe if the car is FREE... but still... even with a free car, you'll be investing a lot to go racing and take it from me, it sucks to go racing and not get to race because your POS car broke!

Point. They're basically just a Gremlin or Spirit with a Jeep Wrangler transfer case, rear driveshaft, and front axle assembly. More appropriate at some kind of dirt-racing event, I'm sure, but they're something I know how to work on already was the other reason I was pondering it.

Gods though... I wouldn't touch a newer Jeep 4.0l head at one of those races, they're Bendix Fuel Injection for most of the ones you can find in junkyards, usually for a reason. Friggin' POS crap makes the 944 I worked on look simple to diagnose.