S/C owners: collecting information

[cali yaris]

Blitz needs to know a few things to help us out with the issues some supercharger owner are experiencing. There seem to be a few issues -- overboosting, lean condition and knocking/pinging.

Please describe your symptoms (and please post with information about your set up and mods if you are NOT experiencing any problems).

We are working to have them provide several fuel maps to test out. I will require a local test car, and this may involve some dyno pulls, but there will be no expense to the owner.


Boost Pressure Issue
1: Boost Pressure you have reported was over 7psi, does the pressure stay at 7psi consistent or go up and down ?

Knocking Issue
A: What Gas octane are Supercharger customers using ?
B: Does knocking occur using Stock Air Box or aftermarket Air intake system? Does it occur with one octane but not with a higher octane? Please describe.
C. Please list any other engine modifications besides the Blitz system.

ok - thanks guys, we will continue to try to facilitate a solution for you.

[kurokoma-kun]

Knocking Issue
A: What Gas octane are Supercharger customers using ?
B: Does knocking occur using Stock Air Box or aftermarket Air intake system? Does it occur with one octane but not with a higher octane? Please describe.
C. Please list any other engine modifications besides the Blitz system.

From the beginning I've been using 93 octane from BP. I got the knocking under heavy acceleration, and usually only the first time after warmup. Several weeks ago I started adding lucas oil octane booster, which is the only thing that prevents the knocking, though I haven't tried a tank without it yet.

My other mods are AEM cai, DC sports header, Nitto midpipe, Tanabe concept g exhaust, NST lite crank pulley, NGK 7 heat range spark plugs

Thank you Garm! :smile: Sorry I can't help with the AFR and boost pressures (still no gauges :redface:). Like Yaris Tsport I am still thrilled with the overall results, worth every bit of effort

[PETERPOOP]

Mods: aFe Intake, NST crank/WT/ALT pulleys, NGK spark plugs, Megan header, 2.25" mandrel bent exhaust from the header back, hi flow cat, 18" resonator, 2.25"dynomax super turbo muffler

No knocking/pinging/pre-ignition. I use shell and 76's 92 octane. I also add lucas oil octane booster from day one.

My A/F readings from the dyno showed that I ran lean. I don't have a boost gauge to read my boost, nor a wideband to show a/f.

*I will be going to the dyno tomorrow (dynojet), and hopefully get some pulls in. I have a scangauge now so I will show my a/f readings with ignition timing and hopefully they can hook up a line to my boost/vacuum nipple while on the dyno to show the boost.


ps: thanks garm for taking the time to work with blitz on figuiring this out!

[LtNoogie]

Please describe your symptoms (and please post with information about your set up and mods if you are NOT experiencing any problems).

Boost Pressure Issue
1: Boost Pressure you have reported was over 7psi, does the pressure stay at 7psi consistent or go up and down ?

Knocking Issue
A: What Gas octane are Supercharger customers using ?
B: Does knocking occur using Stock Air Box or aftermarket Air intake system? Does it occur with one octane but not with a higher octane? Please describe.
C. Please list any other engine modifications besides the Blitz system.


Thanks Garm.

My engine mods:

aFe intake
Blitz S/C
Megan 4-1 header
TRD exhaust
NST Pulley Set

1. Boost pressure max's out at about 7 psi. I run the same Autometer AFR gauge that Camelll uses.

A. Shell V-Power 91 Octane. No pre-ignition. No octane booster used
B. n/a
C. aFe intake, Blitz S/C, Megan 4-1 header, TRD exhaust, NST Pulley Set, NGK Iridium heat range 7 spark plugs, MicroImage sticker

AFR measures 14.7 to 14.9 at WOT with boost.

[dallas]

Great thread :thumbup:, more RD makes me seriously consider this over going the turbo route. Blitz should do a tune for a intake, header and exhaust as most people power hungy enough to buy a supercharger, will also install these items, if they don't have them on already. We all know there is never enough power.

[cali yaris]

Can anyone besides Camelll confirm overboosting?

[YarisSedan]

my mods are Blitz SUS POWER air intake, NGK BKR7EIX, Greddy Tic Exhaust with silencer on full time, NST full pulley kit (not under drive), big throttle body (installed about two month after the sc installed

I had my kit for three month now, I have had ping/knock problem from the first day with 91 oct all the time regardless of what kinda brand of gas, I have tried them all, and they all ping and knock but I stick with shell and mobil 1 anyway since then, about two weeks since day one I have been using Lucas octane booster every fill up with 91 octane either shell, or mobil 1, this took away the ping and knock, but just about a week ago, I fill up with shell 91 with out any octane booster just too see if anything has changed, and it did, I now only run with 91 octane either shell or mobil 1 with out any octane booster, my car does not ping or knock anymore, I don't know the reason why it stop ping/knock, but I'm just happy that I can just fill up at the pump with out any octane boosters to boost. My car is running great and very reliable, I don't know the AF reading nor the HP output cuz I havent dyno it yet, I will do so when I get flywheel and cluth, the car is running great and trouble free, specially now I can just fill up at the pump and boost full time with out ping /knock, it doesn't seen to be running lean, over heating, or anything, it runs like a Champ, I'm not worry about anything, very happy with the kit, it is worth every penny. can't be any happier with this kit now.

What brand gas were u using before. You could have had excessive carbon buildup on top of the pistons enough to displace the combustion chamber enough to change the compression ratio to require you to need sligher higher octane. The continouse use of fuel injector cleaning probally cleaned the engine completely spotless to the point you no longer require that higher octane so now you no longer get a engine ping. I am thinking that the blitz SC kit runs so close to the verge of engine ping. This is why some people ping and some people do not without the aid of octane booster.

I would suggest those who experience pinging try a top engine cleaner such as seafoam through the intake manifold to remove all carbon buildup on the valves and on top of pistons. And then see if the engine still pings. Chances are it will make it better if not remove the pinging all together.

Just a thought.

[YarisSedan]

Great thread :thumbup:, more RD makes me seriously consider this over going the turbo route. Blitz should do a tune for a intake, header and exhaust as most people power hungy enough to buy a supercharger, will also install these items, if they don't have them on already. We all know there is never enough power.

I agree with you. I think most people who install the S/C already have extensive mods. Since the S/C is usually last on thier list. Since if you dump several grand into mods such as intake, pulleys, exhaust, headers, high flow cat, etc. You end up with the same result in power 15-20hp as the sc stand alone would do. Not to mention you dont have to run higher octance gas and you probally still have a grand or 2 in your pocket leftoever.

[staypuft]

mods: fujita cai, tanabe touring medallion exhaust, nst pulley set, ngk bk7 plugs, perrin oil catch can if that matters.

been running bp or shell 91 octane since i got the sc. i dont know if you would call it a knocking but when i gun it in 2nd after i hit 50 it feels like it studders so i shift into 3rd, that just started lately so i shift, i dont have any other gauge to test whats goes on during that period, will try that octane booster and see if that goes away, i love the sc and enjoy it on the highway when i can.

[LtNoogie]

Shouldn't be.

[PETERPOOP]

Ok, I got good news and I got bad news. I went to the dyno jet today and I made the most WHP any blitz owner has made so far. 133.06whp and 133.22 torque. However, I have the highest A/F readings than anyone too! haha. I dont know why I am laughing. This actually is pretty lame. They only did one pull and saw my crazy AFR and refused to do anymore. Everyone gathered at the dyno place and was outraged by the AFR. They couldn't believe blitz would sell a kit that put down 18-19 af readings. They were also surprised that is was not misfiring. I was rated at 8 pounds of boost during my pull. I am pretty mad at blitz right now.

ps: I could have probably made higher HP numbers if I did my other two runs! ;)

I really hope blitz can put a stop to this...

Here is my dyno chart from today...

http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp250/tropicalsuckerpunch/newestdyno.jpg

Here is my old AFR dyno reading from a DynaPack dyno.

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/LtNoogie/newdyno2.jpg


Only different thing that I did between my two seperate dyno runs were I put a hi flow cat on a changed my muffler.

[cali yaris]

+1. Pretty weird to be that different from one place to the next. How were they reading A/F exactly?

I'm willing to bet that Blitz designed this kit to be bolted onto a STOCK yaris, especially the airbox.

Is ANYONE running this kit on an otherwise stock Yaris?

If you add a bolt-on boost kit to an already modified car, you might not be using it as intended. Nice of Blitz to take a look at your modified setups and try to help out.

[PETERPOOP]

I don't understand how one dyno reads that you are running too lean, and the other reads you are running too rich with out any tunning between the two dyno, there's obvious something not right about these dyno
readings, if your car is running like a champ, I wouldn't worry so much about these inconsistent AF readings, however I will take the 133 WHP as a new record for the Blitz Kit:thumbsup:

Well both of my dyno readings are saying that I am LEAN, and not rich. Ideally I should be in the 11-12 range. My old dyno was 13-14 and my one from today is like 18-19!

However, like you said, my car IS running fine. No misfiring (like the dyno tech would thought be happening) and everything seems normal. If it wasn't for the dyno, I would be oblivious to all of this. For now, to be safe, I am going to be running with the compressor set to "off."

I am REALLLLLLLLYYY hoping blitz can make a new fuel map to take into consideration all of the other aftermarket mods MOST blitz owners have installed in their car already.

If they do make a new fuel controller and that doesn't fix it. I am going to have to throw down some $$$ to have someone tune this thing. I talked to a tuner at that shop and he is supposedly one of hawaii's best. He said he is confident he could tune it if we got rid of the fuel controller and used either the AEM FIC, Greddy Ultimate, or the F-Con (sp?). But he said that would cost me. Not too excited about that idea

I hope blitz can pull through for us! :cry:

+1. Pretty weird to be that different from one place to the next. How were they reading A/F exactly?



Well they were two different dynos. First one was a dynapack and the one from today was a dynojet. The dynapack was saying I had only 107 whp and 95 trq. The dynojet is saying i have 133whp and 133trq. So I would think the dynapack's A/F readings wouldn't be as high either. So if you put that into consideration, then it might have been the same before too.

They hooked up a sensor to the end of my tailpipe while I was at the dynapack AND dynojet.

[ztrack157]

I know this is for blitz owner but I am starting to wonder if Blitz did any R&D on their piggy back for the US yaris or if they just included a xB or Japanese yaris piggyback in the kit.

[LtNoogie]

Peter, you need an A/F gauge. If you're measuring 18-19 regularly under boost, soon, one of your videos will sound like...VROOOOMM POP! putt putt putt pffffffff.

[PETERPOOP]

haha, I know I need a A/F gauge ASAP. but no vrooom pop putt putt here. Compressor will be set to "off" until everything is figuired out. Until then, the number "133" is my new favorite number! ;)

[LtNoogie]

Those numbers are more in line with what I expected. Get a vacuum/boost gauge while you are at it.

[whooppee777]

Mods- AEM Cold Air Intake, NST Light Weight Pulleys (set), 1ZZ Throttle Body w/Spacer, Weapon R Header, Nitto Midpipe, Tanabe Medallion Touring Axel Back Exhaust

I use 93 Premium Octane from whichever gas station i am closest to when i run out. and Autolite spark plugs that are 2 steps colder than stock.

i havent had any dyno pulls yet but my wideband a/f ratio gauge shows normal readings around 12 at WOT.

boost reading show anywhere from 7 to 9 pounds of boost

WHEN I TOOK MY PVC HOSE OFF THE INTAKE MANIFOLD IT WAS DUMPING WAY TOO MUCH OIL INTO THE MANIFOLD.

going to invest in an oil catch can very soon

[PETERPOOP]

Those numbers are more in line with what I expected. Get a vacuum/boost gauge while you are at it.

I am getting an autometer cobalt series boost/vacuum, oil pressure, and wideband a/f.

[cali yaris]

Blitz did do R & D, and many USA owners are enjoying their extra power without issues. The weird thing is that the people experiencing problems are all having slightly DIFFERENT results. No pattern, really -- unless you see one I can't see? What I do see is that the blitz kit was added to modified cars in every case.

Unless there is variability in the fuel controller from unit to unit (unlikely) or there is variability in the install and mistakes were made (also unlikely), this is not going to be easy for Blitz to solve. I would not think they would provide a different map for each owner's unique set of readings.

This is an R&D session, please understand that it probably won't be a quick fix.

[ztrack157]

what I wouldn't understand is why would blitz not figure other mods would be done. No one really goes I'm going to get a supercharger first then the rest only on rare occurences. If your buying a supercharger you aren't buying it for fuel economy your getting it to aide your lead foot. And either way if what your saying is correct then anyone with the kit can only run the kit and cannot add anything. I'm just offering possiblities. This whole thing is just weird. I actually want to know where the chargers were purchased from if it's the same place cause they could have sent a defective batch. It's extremely rare but it does happen.

[cali yaris]

So they are supposed to try and create some universal map to account for every combination of aftermarket mods? That sounds problematic to me.

The weird thing for me is that only a few people are experiencing problems, and the problems aren't consistent.

The chargers were purchased from Blitz in Japan, it's the only place they are made.

[ztrack157]

I wasn't talking about Blitz from japan I was asking where in the US ie what vendor. And I know its problematic to do a map for every app and I was not implying that but having a selection of a few wouldn't have been extremely difficult either.

[laszlo]

i have always had a spark nock in my car from the beginning i use 91
so i took my car back to blitz and they changed the map and it ran better no nocking but i think that the car got used to the map and now it is back
now i run 5 gallons of 100 octane and the rest 91. but now my car seems
to be miss firing when hit the boast. but when you turn the s/c off it runs fine you can punch it with no studering at all i have gold air light pulleys header
exhauest. i am taking my car back to blitz on the 18th hope they can fix it
thanks laszlo

[kurokoma-kun]

I wasn't talking about Blitz from japan I was asking where in the US ie what vendor. And I know its problematic to do a map for every app and I was not implying that but having a selection of a few wouldn't have been extremely difficult either.

ztrack, if you mean what vendor did many of us buy our kits from then you were talking to him, cali yaris :respekt:

I for one appreciate your concern, but for the sake of those of us with an actual vested interest in the outcome, can we please keep this information gathering thread on topic? :thumbsup:

Discussion of symptoms and thoughts as to causes is potentially useful here, but random speculation about the manufacturer or vendor is not.

[ae92trueno7]

mods- aem cold air intake, nst crank pulley, using factory plugs, using 93 octane gas and stp octane booster, 2.25" exhaust pipe and aftermarket muffler
boost-8psi-10psi
problem-pinging noise when in low setting at lower rpm...

i'm thinking of getting abit larger fuel injectors to see if the pinging noise goes away....

[cali yaris]

I actually want to know where the chargers were purchased from if it's the same place cause they could have sent a defective batch.

To be more clear: Six kits were sent to me so far (I think) from Blitz. Laszlo's and YarisDarkness kits did not come through me. Symptoms are independent of when they were sent or by whom.

[PETERPOOP]

i have always had a spark nock in my car from the beginning i use 91
so i took my car back to blitz and they changed the map and it ran better no nocking but i think that the car got used to the map and now it is back
now i run 5 gallons of 100 octane and the rest 91. but now my car seems
to be miss firing when hit the boast. but when you turn the s/c off it runs fine you can punch it with no studering at all i have gold air light pulleys header
exhauest. i am taking my car back to blitz on the 18th hope they can fix it
thanks laszlo

Well that must be accommadating. Did they change your map because you were the car representing their company?

Would they be willing to do a map that meets our mods?

do you got any dyno charts or A/F readings?

[cali yaris]

Maybe someone who is seeing a lean condition could swap the stock air box back on and see if they are getting the same problem, if they do then that would rule out the stock air box theory.

YES PLEASE

[ztrack157]

Ok Garm thats what I wanted to know. And Jo other then symptoms right now all you have is random speculation cause the problem hasn't been found. I think even blitz can't find a way around our ECU's without replacing them with a stand alone. I'm done posting here back to what garm intended it for.

[PETERPOOP]

YES PLEASE

I can do this once I get my gauges (which I haven't bought yet). hah.

If noogie doesn't want to do it, we'll just have to wait until I do it....

[kurokoma-kun]

I think even blitz can't find a way around our ECU's without replacing them with a stand alone.

I'm afraid you may be right, I've been cursing the cleverness of the ECM for two years now :laugh: The effect of it's adapability is just much more pronounced with the supercharger... if I vary my driving style for even a day (say, slow-poking along at revs consistently below 2500) I can sense the slight adjustments it's made (drop in idle speed, rough running, etc). When its running well though, I couldn't ask for better, smoother, more predictable performance.

I guess I'm just really impressed that Blitz has managed to deal with the intricately efficient, dynamic fuel system as well as they have! It seems to me the current fuel map functions well within reasonable tolerances of performance and safety, but I can't speak for others. However, if they can come up with a better map that takes my intake/exhaust mods into greater account, then I'll be more than happy to experiment with it.

Wonder if they can come up with some kind of adjustable in-cabin Fuel Control Module replacement...

Excellent idea :thumbsup: maybe on the model of the activation switch itself, with a few pre-set fuel map choices to match mod level and driving style, such as Safe and Sane, Not So Sane, and Friggin Maniac :laugh:

[PETERPOOP]

OooOo that'd be ideal.

[PETERPOOP]

I just realized something, and you guys probably already brought this up, but I just realized Noogie and I are the only ones experiencing lean conditions with the s/c. We are also the only guys using the aFe intake with the kits. Is this true?

Noogie put your stock air filter on and give us some numbers!

My gauges are ordered but won't come in until tuesday!

[eTiMaGo]

my question is, what was Blitz's target AFR under boost? They hsould know best what it should be, and the SC owners can then compare their results.

I mean, it is a relatively low amount of boost, it may make sense that Blitz didn't see the need to enrichen the mixture so much?

[largeorangefont]

Guys, It sounds like Blitz did not do enough R&D to check compatability with other aftermarket parts (intakes specifically)

You guys really just need something extra (piggyback etc.) to tune the car with. I'm not sure Blitz is really going to be able to help with that.

The TRD superchargers are very similar to the Blitz units (roots SC and a fuel controller box wired in) and they do not have these types of issues.

Those with intakes -

Measure the ID of you intake piping where the MAF mounts and compare this to the stock intake.

[whooppee777]

my car runs fine under boost BUT when im cruising down the highway with the supercharger set at low(being the high setting) and the throttle is below 5%, meaning the supercharger is not engaged and i am not making boost, the car periodically seems to stutter and the a/f ratios go lean. im guessing this is preignition. this happens maybe once or twice every 10 minutes or so

now when i have the supercharger turned off this does not occur.

[largeorangefont]

my car runs fine under boost BUT when im cruising down the highway with the supercharger set at low(being the high setting) and the throttle is below 5%, meaning the supercharger is not engaged and i am not making boost, the car periodically seems to stutter and the a/f ratios go lean. im guessing this is preignition. this happens maybe once or twice every 10 minutes or so

now when i have the supercharger turned off this does not occur.

Preignition would be rich generally.

[PETERPOOP]

Garm,

Any luck with blitz? Did you send them the gathered information? Have they offered to do anything?

Does ANYONE even know what blitz says the AFR should be at with the blitz kit? heh...

I just want to know if they are going to do anything about it or not. If not, I am picking up a greddy ultimate and having a local tuner put it in and tune this thing!

Thanks

[largeorangefont]

Garm,

Any luck with blitz? Did you send them the gathered information? Have they offered to do anything?

Does ANYONE even know what blitz says the AFR should be at with the blitz kit? heh...

I just want to know if they are going to do anything about it or not. If not, I am picking up a greddy ultimate and having a local tuner put it in and tune this thing!

Thanks

You should do that anyway...

[cali yaris]

Like I said (I think I did) in a previous post, this is R&D and may take some time.

I agree with largeorangefont, if you have a shop that can tune the car with an eManage, you'd be the first to do so, and you'll probably make more power than the Blitz fuel controller can.

[whooppee777]

so that could be done? replacing the blitz fuel controller with another piggy back?

[cali yaris]

If someone gets a piggyback to work, we are all golden for tuning.

I think Blitz is trying to send over a few fuel controllers with different maps for someone to test.

[PETERPOOP]

If someone gets a piggyback to work, we are all golden for tuning.

I think Blitz is trying to send over a few fuel controllers with different maps for someone to test.

This is EXACTLY what I wanted to hear. Thanks

Paying 600-700$ on the Greddy universal ultimate and paying someone to install and tune it is definately second on the list, behind blitz trying to help the existing problem.

[cali yaris]

OK guys, here is Blitz's first answer. They want to confirm that the problem persists after ALL of these conditions are met. Please post up.

My next question to Blitz is if they have developed the map with a USDM ECU on hand. I can send them mine, which is no longer in my car, if they want to play with it.

Air Fuel Ratio = The chart you've provided showing lean side but Japan said it is in a fine range. [note: Noogie this is you, right?]

Fuel Controller Wiring = Japan direction is the wiring must need to be Soldered and hard wire. Do not use connector of splice etc. Can you confirm if your customers soldered the wire? Connection has to be done properly, bad connection cause resistance made improper signal to ECM.

Spark Plug = Japan recommended to replace spark plug heat range one range Colder. I believe Stock heat range of Yaris is 6, then replace to 7.

Pump Gas Quality = This is always a big issue when comes to knocking issue. Must have good clean 91 Octane Gas all the time, but this is something hard to determine because pump gas quality hard to verify......

[PETERPOOP]

OK guys, here is Blitz's first answer. They want to confirm that the problem persists after ALL of these conditions are met. Please post up.

My next question to Blitz is if they have developed the map with a USDM ECU on hand. I can send them mine, which is no longer in my car, if they want to play with it.

Air Fuel Ratio = The chart you've provided showing lean side but Japan said it is in a fine range. [note: Noogie this is you, right?]

Fuel Controller Wiring = Japan direction is the wiring must need to be Soldered and hard wire. Do not use connector of splice etc. Can you confirm if your customers soldered the wire? Connection has to be done properly, bad connection cause resistance made improper signal to ECM.

Spark Plug = Japan recommended to replace spark plug heat range one range Colder. I believe Stock heat range of Yaris is 6, then replace to 7.

Pump Gas Quality = This is always a big issue when comes to knocking issue. Must have good clean 91 Octane Gas all the time, but this is something hard to determine because pump gas quality hard to verify......

AIR/FUEL: I am running lean too, not just noogie. I'm not quite sure what you're asking for that question? Both my dyno charts say I am running lean. Both were 15ish and higher at WOT, especially my most recent DYNO. If they need the graphs, let me know. However, once my wideband is on, might be a different story..

Fuel controller: I soldered and shrink wrapped ALL wires.

Spark Plug: I am running the NGK iridium plugs that blitz suggests. "ngk iridium tip 7 heat spark plugs"

PUMP GAS: I've been running only 76 and Shell's 92 premium gas. I have also added lucas octane booster to every tank. I have not experienced any knocking/pre-ignition.


*My problem is running lean and possibly being robbed of power. I have always ran the good gas/octane booster, had the correct spark plugs, and soldered and shrink wrapped from the begining of firing up my kit and I am still experiencing the lean condition.

Once my wideband is hooked up, I will let you know my wideband AF readings. If they are still high, i was going to put in my stock airbox to see what it reads with that (since noogie isn't doing it). heck, even if my AFR isn't high according to my wideband, ill throw on the stock airbox just to see what numbers it shows with that too.

[cali yaris]

Well, they are saying Noogie's numbers are fine, so I don't know what to say about that.

[PETERPOOP]

Isn't it known throughout the tuning world that those numbers AREN'T fine? Are they giving a reason why those numbers should be fine? Or are they just saying that so they don't have to solve the problem? Well please tell them about mine and I want to hear what they say. Show them my graphs.

* I hope they take up your offer on tuning with the USDM ECU from you. Maybe it will enlighten them?

[cali yaris]

This does not mean they aren't working on the problem. It means they are eliminating possibilities. That is the appropriate process. They aren't going to send over fuel controllers (@ $700 a pop retail) with random maps, when they don't know what's been done or not done on our side.

[Mouse]

I'm only giving a suggestion on a stand-alone system.

You guys should really look into Mega Squirt....IF there is someone in the Yaris community that is good with tuning and doesn't mind fiddling with electronics they could produce a complete Plug-n-Play stand-alone unit.

Someone did that with the miatas.....here is an example of what it is.

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtpnp-mm9697-for-the-199697-mazda-miata-manual-tranny-p-193.html?osCsid=9ae8c023ee92d1468e19f4ec1322dd5f

Once again, I'm only giving a suggestion. I don't know anything about ECU's or tuning.

Another company you guys could look into is Sniper Tune......They did the tuning on the Cosworth Supercharger Kit for the latest gen. miata. They might be able to crack the Yaris's ECU.

I'm a RETARD when it comes to this stuff...So flame away about how pointless a post I just posted.

[PETERPOOP]

This does not mean they aren't working on the problem. It means they are eliminating possibilities. That is the appropriate process. They aren't going to send over fuel controllers (@ $700 a pop retail) with random maps, when they don't know what's been done or not done on our side.

I understand that. That is why i provided the info. However, it seems strange for them to say that noogie's AFR is fine and not give a reasoning for that (if they didn't). When most people know that his and my A/F readings are higher than ideal WOT AF numbers.

It seems I have done everything accordingly, yet still have the lean problem. I hope they can come up with something. *fingers crossed*

Anywho, I hope other people chime in with the info needed!

[PETERPOOP]

*BUMP* Yo S/C guys, answer garm's new questions on the bottom of page 3. Thanks

[cali yaris]

mouse, the megasquirt is not a standalone management, it's a fuel controller. However, it is tunable, so that gives it an advantage over a pre-programmed unit like the Blitz one.

[whooppee777]

i set a CEL code P0302, misfire in 2nd cylinder, last night at WOT in third gear

[Mouse]

Then is the Hydra the same as the MS?

[Mouse]

IDK...but a lot of people have said that you can use it as either a piggyback or as a full stand alone.

[cali yaris]

The Hydra has full standalone capability (at least their Nemesis 2 does), including timing, peripherals (a/c, power steering, etc), and other functions. Much like the AEM EMS I'm using, or a MoTeC, etc.

MegaSquirt gives control over fuel only - the ECU is still doing most of the work to control the motor.

[Mouse]

This is what I found on the MS

http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp_0610_megasquirt_engine_mngmt_system/index.html

[turboecho2005]

Mouse is right... Megasquirt can be used as either a standalone or a piggyback. But you may lose the vvti... Unless someone has figured that out.

I used megasquirt as a piggy back on the 1nzfe and its a full standalone on the 4age.

[kurokoma-kun]

Got some new info on AFR, I'll repeat the rest of the stuff as well. Looks like my experiences pretty much parallel camelll's.

Air Fuel Ratio:
* 11-12 range at wot in open loop (making up to 8 psi)
* mid 14s-low 15s in closed loop (both on and off boost)
* steady at 16 during DFCO (open loop)

Fuel Controller Wiring: Splice clips (the good kind, not the shit ones from the kit :tongue: )
Spark Plug: NGK 7 heat range plugs
Pump Gas Quality: BP 93 octane plus lucas oil octane booster

I just got the wideband a/f gauge in over the weekend so I'll continue to keep an eye on it. Similar to what camelll said, I see a brief delay in going to open loop at wot, but I see the same delay when entering dfco, so it may simply be may be the scangauge catching up. My main desire would be to eliminate long-term use of the fuel additive to prevent knocking.

[LtNoogie]

KK, have you tried a tankful without the addditive? I believe that Yaris T-sport mentioned that he was able to stop using the octane booster. I don't understand why other than maybe the ECU was able to learn and adjust. Doesn't make sense to me.

[kurokoma-kun]

KK, have you tried a tankful without the addditive? I believe that Yaris T-sport mentioned that he was able to stop using the octane booster. I don't understand why other than maybe the ECU was able to learn and adjust. Doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah, I saw T-sport's comments and tried a tank without additive last week but the knocking returned. :thumbdown:

It runs so well with the octane booster I almost don't mind the added expense, but seeing what others have said about the long-term effect on spark plugs does concern me.

[cali yaris]

Plus.... you shouldn't have to, in my opinion.

[PETERPOOP]

Well wouldn't we have to because a few people were guessing the blitz kit was tuned to 100 octane in Japan? And if that is true, it comes out to like 95-96 octane in the US?

[cali yaris]

I was thinking the same thing, but Blitz confirmed that they used a USDM car (here in the USA) to install and test their system. I doubt that car had more than 91 in it when they did their R&D here.

I'm emailing them again today to find out what's up.

[PETERPOOP]

Got some new info on AFR, I'll repeat the rest of the stuff as well. Looks like my experiences pretty much parallel camelll's.

Air Fuel Ratio:
* 11-12 range at wot in open loop (making up to 8 psi)
* mid 14s-low 15s in closed loop (both on and off boost)
* steady at 16 during DFCO (open loop)


What is your guys IGN timing during your WOT (11-12 AFR)? And IGN timing during your MID 14s-15s in closed loop with boost on and off.

Thanks

[LtNoogie]

With my limited understanding of engine performance, I thought that when you retard to single digits on timing, you are delaying when the spark occurs to near top dead center. That helps to prevent pre-ignition but also outputs less power than if you had ignited earlier... meaning double digit ignition retardation. Earlier ignition allows for more of the fuel to completely burn.

Someone with more knowledge please chime in.

[LtNoogie]

I am going to try larger injectors next. I have to read up on why more fuel prevents pre-ignition.

[kurokoma-kun]

My ignition timing:
at idle ~5
out of boost ~30 (AFR 14s-15s)
under low boost ~15 (AFR 14s-15s)
at wot ~10, rarely + briefly single digits (AFR 11s-12s)

KK do you have shell gas stations with 93? I have used that multiple tanks without octane booster and no knocking. I cannot get bp 93 as they don't have it here but bp 91 knocks like crazy without octane booster.

Well, BP near me are calling what they have 93 octane :rolleyes: though sometimes I suspect we are all getting crap gas! Seems like lately I've read more posts about stalling and poor performance in other parts of the board than ever before. Hell I dunno </conspiracy theory> Annnnyway, have not tried Shell, I'll have to see if I can find it!

[eTiMaGo]

you could also look into water/meth injection as a way too cool down the compressed air, though I'm not sure where you'd be able to fit the nozzle!

[LtNoogie]

AlexNet0 is fabricating a throttle body spacer with a NOS injection port. Perhaps the water/meth can be injected there. That is way low on my list of mods, though.

[eTiMaGo]

yeah but inejcting it before the compression takes place, I'm not sure how efficient it'll be? I mean, you basically want the liquid mist to absorb heat (thus cooling the air) and turn to steam...

[LtNoogie]

It still has the effect of cooling the intake air charge. You start cooler so your compressed charge is cooler. Here's an interesting article on a homemade water injection system.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html

[eTiMaGo]

It still has the effect of cooling the intake air charge. You start cooler so your compressed charge is cooler. Here's an interesting article on a homemade water injection system.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html

very most interesting! Basically on our engines that's be using the vacuum line from the PCV system or brake booster, but the only problem I can think off, at full throttle, you don't have much of a vacuum, so there won't be so much flow through the tube and the water injection would be greatly reduced when you would actually want it most... So really I think you'd want to have a small aquarium pump or something to ensure a steady flow...

[Nexus1155]

30 degrees of ignition out of boost? and thats where the problem exits, your probably misfiring and knocking. I don't think you should be hitting those high of values like that...

I'm only running around 20-23 where it would be out of boost if i was on a yaris and this is on a 4.2L truck that can take a few more degrees.

http://i39.tinypic.com/vx0l6x.jpg

[PETERPOOP]

My ignition timing:
at idle ~5
out of boost ~30 (AFR 14s-15s)
under low boost ~15 (AFR 14s-15s)
at wot ~10, rarely + briefly single digits (AFR 11s-12s)




I see single digits on timing anytime under boost regardless of a/f ratio. The only time I see above single digits is out of boost. If I am above single digits during boost it is real low teens. Out of boost and normal driving I see 30's + on timing and without boost getting on it I see high teens to low 20's.

Max boost is 8.

my IGN is 17 under WOT with AFR of 13-14
my IGN is 25-30 w/ NO boost & normal driving w/ AFR of 14.5-15.1
My IGN is 15 when under low boost and AFR is 14.5-15.1
My IGN is 5 when coasting/neutral with AFR of 15

*All of my numbers of IGN and AFR seem to match with your guys, besides my IGN under WOT. I am seeing 17 IGN timing and not the low teens like you guys..

Is that safe? Is that why I am generating "more" power?

Here's a link to a thread I made about it last night with a video clip of my gauge readings from above..

http://yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16720

[PETERPOOP]

Well I put my stock airbox on, and I'm getting readings of 11-12 at WOT (during open loop). You hear that Noogie?

However, this is only at Open loop. Open loop takes a few to open once I initially hit the gass hard. So during that time I am running hard and it's not open loop yet, I am still seeing numbers of 14-15. However, once in Open loop, I saw 11-12. My IGN timing was still at 17. Not low teens like everyone else said they were getting. So are those proper numbers oppossed to other people now because I am running that IGN timing with 11-12 AFR? Is it safe to have 17 IGN timing now that I am getting 11-12 during open loop?

No time to do driving tonight (homework), but tomorrow I will get more numbers.

[Nexus1155]

wellll more fuel will counter act high spark, but just by putting the stock airbox you limited the air that much to change the AFR by 2 points? These cars are screwy as helllll. Go drive some more and bring back some more data lol...

[cali yaris]

^ I think he's onto something. Looks like MAYBE the intake set up makes a difference with respect to the tune that Blitz intended.

[PETERPOOP]

The stock airbox DEFINATELY made a change in my AFR and I guess it's a testament of how much air the aFe intake really takes in. I am curious to know what intakes each blitz owner is using. It's hard to believe that the aFe intake would make so much of a difference compared to other aftermarket intakes. However, the numbers don't lie.

I hope noogie is inspired to swap back to his stock airbox too, and we can confirm this.

Definately will have more of a variety of A/F readings in the next couple of days.

[LtNoogie]

I guess this is where iterative tweeking and dyno testing is the right way to tune if one could afford it. Bringing the AFR back to a safe range is not the end goal. The end goal should be to maximize power while staying in a safe operating zone.

Peter is enrichening his mixture at WOT by limiting airflow slightly. Peter, what was your ignition timing under WOT before you put on the stock airbox? If timing was lower than 17, you may have increased your power while at the same time moved yourself into a safer zone. If you can get your WOT AFR into the 11 - 13 range, your dyno guys shouldn't be afraid to give you your last two dyno pulls.

I am going to try the opposite tack. In order to enrichen my mixture at WOT, I am going to try to dump more fuel into the charge by trying larger injectors (thanks Garm). I'm trying to collect as much data as I can with my logger before changing to the larger injectors.

It's really cool that we have enough S/C'd owners that we can try different approaches.

[PETERPOOP]

Peter is enrichening his mixture at WOT by limiting airflow slightly. Peter, what was your ignition timing under WOT before you put on the stock airbox? If timing was lower than 17, you may have increased your power while at the same time moved yourself into a safer zone. If you can get your WOT AFR into the 11 - 13 range, your dyno guys shouldn't be afraid to give you your last two dyno pulls.




Like I said in my update post (like 4 posts before this), my IGN timing is the same now as it was with the aFe intake at WOT. My IGN timing is 17 at WOT (open loop) now and it was 17 with the aFe. The only difference now is that I have 11-12 AFR with the stock airbox, and when I had the aFe on, I had 13-14 AFR.

I'm still not sure if I am any safer now even though I have 11-12 AFR, but still the 17 IGN timing. Anyone know? Because the majority of the blitz owners who run 11-12 AFR, have low teens or single digit IGN numbers. However, I do not.



If you can get your WOT AFR into the 11 - 13 range, your dyno guys shouldn't be afraid to give you your last two dyno pulls.



IT IS in the 11-12 range. That's the reason for my update. However, my question was, is it ok if I am running 17 IGN timing with the 11-12 AFR.

Bringing the AFR back to a safe range is not the end goal. The end goal should be to maximize power while staying in a safe operating zone.



For now, it is for me. However, I can promise I will eventually get the greddy emanage ultimate/larger injectors/larger throttle body/aFe intake and tune it accordingly for maximum HP with ideal AFR.

[TOUGEghost]

Those new AFR numbers with the stock intake look much better. Is that 17* peak? What does the whole timing curve look like? It may be the best you can do anyway until you have a way to actually make adjustments to the fuel and timing maps (e-mangae, injectors, etc. like you mentioned). I know a 4G63 isn't the same engine but the tuning principles are similar; I run 21* peak timing WOT open loop at full boost with a target AFR of about 11.1

[PETERPOOP]

The 17 is not peak. I think it might go to 18-19 too. Well from your response, I'll take it that the 17 IGN timing area is safe and actually good!

I believe it's not possible to adjust IGN timing. Not sure though...

More numbers coming tomorrow!

[TOUGEghost]

If it runs smooth and doesn't knock, it should be ok. I usually advance timing 1* at a time until the power curve flattens out or I start to get knock.

[Nexus1155]

Question... did the blitz install say to change out the air intake? I mean you have to consider the ecu senses air coming into the engine and tries to compensate for it...

Its like trying to suck air in through your mouth or air in through a straw..... One has a large area to gather in volume and one has only a small hole.....

For whoever is getting crap AFR on your blitz kit, i urge you to try what Peter did, 11-12 is ideal for a SC and fueling(safe) i doubt hell have any more problems if this is the case...

[LtNoogie]

I could probably approximate a stock air box by taping off part of my aFe filter. That's a quick and dirty way of limiting airflow without doing the whole airbox thing.

[kurokoma-kun]

I'm not seeing the lean condition, I only had the knocking issue.

My intake/exhaust system starts with AEM cai, then header, midpipe, axleback. I guess this is why my results are different :iono:

[kurokoma-kun]

My AFR is 13-15 under boost (closed loop), 11s-12s at wot (open loop)

[kurokoma-kun]

I see what you mean. But I guess as I've gone full throttle I've been focusing on the a/f gauge rather than the scangauge, and not seeing anything to indicate lean condition as it transitions to open loop... :iono:

Could it just be the scangauge lagging behind? For example when I take my foot off the gas, it takes at least a couple seconds before showing open loop for DFCO.

Guess I really need to take some videos too, its too many gauges to study in detail while driving

[kurokoma-kun]

Hmmmm thats weird, my a/f gauge shows nothing but "green" at low boost... from this I've been assuming it's seeking to maintain stoich numbers until you get to wot/open loop. Also I was under the impression that at wot an AFR of 11--which would under any other conditions be rich--is actually ok... :iono:

[cali yaris]

11 is fine under boost.

The scangauge does lag ever so slightly.

More than slightly, IMO. The scangauge is really slow, OBDII is really not useful for real-time data that changes rapidly.

[PETERPOOP]

Well even if the scangauge is lagging to go into open loop; like cammell said, just look at your boost gauge once you are in boost. If your numbers aren't 11-12, then you are lean. So it shouldn't matter if the scanguage is lagging to go into open loop, because your wideband and boost gauge are instant.

Well I am glad to hear that camell and KK are both only getting 11-12 when in open loop. Atleast I am up to page with the "normal" blitz guys.

I gotta go driving to class in a few, so I will be collecting numbers and will post later today.


* I wish the other blitz owners were active in this thread.....

[PETERPOOP]

Drove around more today. Constant 11.9-12.1 AFR with 16-17 IGN timing when in open loop. Idle of 15 AFR with single digit IGN. Also in DFCO i get 15 AFR. Open loop needs to happen sooner. I don't not like seeing the 11-12 AFR until open loop. I'd like to see it sooner, especially when I engage WOT.

[LtNoogie]

My ghetto air restriction testing. Rather than change back to the old airbox, I am testing different amount of airflow by adding more tape. I collected some data on the data logger and am analyzing it tonight.

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/LtNoogie/DSCN0027.jpg

[PETERPOOP]

lol. ghetto R&D. nice

[Nexus1155]

The even funnier thing is is that if the tape isn't super pourous it will work!! hahaha

[LtNoogie]

I haven't seen my airbox since the car was a few weeks old. Does anyone know what is the size of the air inlet to the box? Is is something easily measurable?

[yaris-me]

Just PMed. Had to leave the warmth of my apartment.:frown:

[LtNoogie]

Thanks for sacrificing for the team. I was just told that the opening to the stock airbox is 2" in diameter. That seems awfully small when you look at these big-ass cone low-restriction intake filters but it made me think some more.

Performance will be limited to the smallest restriction if air speed is equal. The smallest restriction is either the stock airbox inlet or the diameter of the stock throttle body.

Does anyone have the diameter of the stock throttle body opening. I'm sure if I searched, I would find it in another thread but maybe one of you have it handy.

It looks like I need alot more blue tape this afternoon. No wonder there was very little effect with the amount of tape I put on the filter.

[Nexus1155]

well, yes, i mean, some have short rams, some have long tubes, some have easy breathing filters while some don't.... we're arguing semantics here... It seems im assuming the instruction for the kit did not say anything about changing the intake and thats where everyone went wrong... adding more air to it when it wasn't needed...so tape up them thur filters

[cali yaris]

Blitz has confirmed that they tested the kit on a stock car.

[LtNoogie]

I'm going to wrap my beautiful aFe cone shaped filter in black electrical tape and leave a two inch diameter hole? That sucks (pun intended)

[LtNoogie]

Mike, tape up your filter and see if your ignition timing climbs back up to double digits. I'm hoping to feel the additional power that the timing advance will give me.

[LtNoogie]

I forgot that you have a CAI and that the filter is stuck in the fender. Anyways, I'm off work now and will go out to the parking lot with my trusty roll of blue masking tape to do some more "tuning".

[LtNoogie]

The ECU is just too smart to fool. The car runs fine like this. Note that the bottom half of the filter at the tip is also taped up.

It's not going to win me points at any car show.

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/LtNoogie/DSCN0029.jpg

[PETERPOOP]

lol. definately no points for style. maybe someone can sell you their stock airbox that is lying around the garage or something? I'm sure there are people with them still, who don't care for them.

[supmet]

lol. definately no points for style. maybe someone can sell you their stock airbox that is lying around the garage or something? I'm sure there are people with them still, who don't care for them.

or would trade for an AFE

[cali yaris]

My stock one is laying around... somewhere. Probably under a body kit that didn't sell. :rolleyes:

lol

[kurokoma-kun]

The ECU is just too smart to fool. The car runs fine like this. Note that the bottom half of the filter at the tip is also taped up.

haha, nice mad science there noogie-san, I look forward to reviewing your lab notes. :biggrin:

SO... it sounds like we have obtained similar results, just by different routes--you are stabilizing your afr by lowering boost (via inlet restriction) and I am getting the same effect from boosting octane, thus allowing for more ignition timing advance...

i dunno, is that even right? :confused:

[LtNoogie]

I think that if I regress my car all the way back to stock, other than the S/C kit, I'll get the performance they designed for.

Next, my stock steelies and skinny tires go on. Then I'll raise my car with the OEM shocks and springs. That should get +5hp.

[kurokoma-kun]

It's interesting to note that the Blitz installation manual specifies two types of intakes recommended for use with the kit, the Sus power air cleaner and Sus power core.

http://www.blitz.co.jp/products/aircleaner/suspower.htm

http://www.blitz.co.jp/products/aircleaner/core_type_lm.htm

In japanese but tons of pics, piped all sorts of dayum ways depending on application--how do you think they compare to what you have, Long?

[LtNoogie]

I don't think they use enough blue painter's tape for maximum performance.

Seriously, back to my previous post, if you could dare to run without an air filter, you could still not move any more air than what the diameter of the throttle body will let you pass. Now if the inlet to the stock airbox is smaller than the throttle body throat, some engineer at Toyota has determined that that is the optimum air inlet for whatever reason... performance (unlikely)... emissions... who knows.

We are requiring more airflow because we have a compressor, in effect sucking more air through that throttle body. You would think that we would need a bigger inlet than the stock 2" opening hence the larger filters.

I'm still trying to work this through my head why Peter's setup is not starving for air or for that matter my taped up setup.

[eTiMaGo]

one of you guys could also look into the effects of installing a larger throttle body, though I suppose it might make the lean condition worse...

[PETERPOOP]

i would think it would. i will use one during my tune.

[LtNoogie]

I don't think that more air is what we need. I think we need same air as stock or IF we have more air, then we need more fuel.

[eTiMaGo]

right, right, true... just throwing ideas out there... One more thing I just thought of, the old "resistor trick" does have its merits, by telling the ECU/Fuel controller that the MAF is seeing a higher airflow, it ought to adjust with more fuel. In closed loop mode the ECU will be smart enough to compensate for this, but once in open loop mode it could actually allow a measurable enrichment. at just a few cents (or $50 on eBay), it could very we be worth trying :smile:

[LtNoogie]

Yeah, it's too bad Garm cut his apart. I was going to offer him $80 for it.

Secondly, I found this plastic thingy in the garage that looked like a cross between a french horn and a solid bagpipe. From examininig archealogical sketches, I was able to determine that it was my stock airbox.

[cali yaris]

LOL

[PETERPOOP]

Yeah, it's too bad Garm cut his apart. I was going to offer him $80 for it.

Secondly, I found this plastic thingy in the garage that looked like a cross between a french horn and a solid bagpipe. From examininig archealogical sketches, I was able to determine that it was my stock airbox.

let us know your AFR when you get it on!

[LtNoogie]

I actually put so much blue tape over my filter that the car almost stopped running. I had to pull over to give myself a "tune-up". What is totally wierd is that the AFR gauge was a constant 15. I cannot get this car to go rich for the life of me.

[kurokoma-kun]

What is totally wierd is that the AFR gauge was a constant 15. I cannot get this car to go rich for the life of me.

Just bizarre Long. :iono: It's too bad we all have such different set-ups, makes it much harder to compare notes.

My latest observations: today I spent my first significant time on a major highway since installing the supercharger; drove about 30 minutes each way at constant 60-80 mph. At these speeds I was in boost for much of the time--and every time I hit even 1 psi of boost the AFR immediately went rich (11-12s), and (in due course :rolleyes:) the scangauge showed open loop.

camell, is this what youre saying you wish yours would do?

Same nice performance as usual from the car btw, just different gauge readings from what I've seen on my daily commmute. At those lower typical engine loads and speeds its been going into acceleration induced open loop a lot less often--only at higher boost level (say 5 psi) + throttle position (above 50).

[cali yaris]

Since Blitz only supplies a fuel controller, how would they make the car enter open loop when they want it to? Isn't that a function of the ECU? I'm not technical enough to understand what controls what, exactly.

[eTiMaGo]

as far as we can tell, the fuel controller sends some kind of trigger signal to the ECU to make it go into open loop.

Where it's confusing is that camelll believes in some conditions, there is a small window of time in between the supercharger activating and producing boost, and the ECU actually going into open loop mode and thus providing enough fuel. So, in that small window, there would actually be a lean condition of not enough fuel to go with the increased mass of air.

Unfortunately like Garm mentioned, the activation time of open loop depends entirely on the ECU, it's unlikely the blitz controller can speed this up in any way...

[kurokoma-kun]

Q: could Blitz possibly increase this kit's amount of AWESOME???

A: after autocrossing it yesterday, I'm gonna say this adjustment is not necessary :biggrin:



Not to make light of anyone's concerns, I'm just enjoying the hell out of the supercharger, with tinkering being approximately 33.3% of the fun.

[eTiMaGo]

that's right, make us atmospherically-challenged folks even more jealous, you evil woman :biggrin:

[kurokoma-kun]

:cry::brokenheart: oh you hurt my feelinks

Not to nitpick, but you used a little "e" in that one word... don't you know by now my title is Mistress of Extraordinary Evil?

[KCALB SIRAY]

off topic

KK, will you make the Nashville Show by chance?

[LtNoogie]

Q: could Blitz possibly increase this kit's amount of AWESOME???

A: after autocrossing it yesterday, I'm gonna say this adjustment is not necessary :biggrin:

KK, please post another thread in the Racing forum about the autocrossing. I can't wait to read what you think about the response, especially coming out of a turn.

[cali yaris]

to summarize:
from a standstill, open loop takes 5-8 seconds.
if moving (only at freeway speeds?), open loop happens instantly.

Does that sound like the ECU responding differently to the same signal? Or is the fuel controller capable of sending more than one signal to the ECU?

***Is the fuel controller wired into the ECU where it COULD control closed/open loop condition?

[gwasabi]

I don't know CRAP about supercharged or turbocharged cars or cars in general but if you have a lean reading can't you just upgrade your fuel injectors to put more fuel into the engine? just a thought for all the supercharged guys out there. I don't think modding your intake will matter for that matter because the amount of air you get from a stock intake to a aftermarket intake doesn't really change THAT much to even give you a big difference (Unless you have the 1zz TB). Theoretically, the bigger pipe means more air but it still have to go through what ever TB size you have, an am intake only changed the rate at how fast the air gets to the TB from the intake inlet.... Thus the really little increase in horsepower(honestly like 1hp if anything). As far as CAI goes, it's generally the same as a regular intake except theoretically your putting in colder air since its from the bottom but honestly in my opinion on a hot day, you'll actually be sucking in much hotter air because the asphault would be hotter and all....

[Nexus1155]

Yeah, you can add another injector but if you look at it like this. You have 4 injectors firing already and it reads a rich condition, it lowers injector latency to an adequate level to meet the stoich condition. Now if you just add an extra injector not hooked up to the ecu, the O2 sensor will still see it from the readings and even still adjust it. Or atleast thats what I am assuming as it reads off the O2 sensor?

And about it taking way too long to enter open loop from a standstill vs. on the highway, you have to understand that there is alot of criteria it has to meet before it triggers open loop. The main reason it probably comes on quick on the highway is probably that the engine is already under a susbstantial amount of load etc etc

[gwasabi]

Well, I've been reading peter's and noog's post about how they are getting lean condition and I just thought about the idea since I've been reading around and no one really bothered to upgrade their injectors lol just my 2 cents

[kurokoma-kun]

***Is the fuel controller wired into the ECU where it COULD control closed/open loop condition?

Three important items the fuel controller is wired to are the accelerator pedal position sensor (VPA terminal on ECM), MAF (VG), and engine rpm sensors (terminal differs by controller model--this is camell's legendary mutant pink wire :tongue:), all of which (afaik) are used along with other sensors to determine when to trigger open/closed loop, among other things.

The ECM and fuel controller are obviously intended to act in concert somehow, but as for exactly how data is shared between them seems to be an open question at the moment... the ECM is no doubt still responsible for the actual functions of engine control, but does anyone here know for sure how it is "informed" of conditions by the fuel controller, and vice versa? Or is it only a one-way relationship, ECM --> fuel controller? Blitz must know, so since this thread is supposed to be gathering info for their use, I think we ask these questions only in the hope that they will get some insight into our concerns, if not to try to solve some things on our own.

As for my own car, when AFR goes rich and open loop is triggered does seem to vary according to engine rpm and load as well as throttle positon, at least. I've only noticed the two distinct two states under boost so far--what I guess I could call "town" and "highway"--all I'd like to know is if this is normal? Judging only by my own impressions of performance it certainly feels that way but based on what camell is asking I :iono:

[Nexus1155]

well yeah if you put in larger injectors you might be able to fool the ecu a bit like the TC ones, its worth a shot. If it still thinks the yaris injectors are in there it will be dumping more fuel than necessary and confuse the ecu hopefully not triggering a CEL

[gwasabi]

worth a try hehe

[kurokoma-kun]

KK when you are at a stop light and floor it how long does it take your car to go into open loop? Just watch your a/f gauge when it goes to 11-12 you are in open loop.

When I am at a stoplight and floor it, it takes approximately 2 seconds for the police pursuit car to fly out from his place of concealment in the bushes! He appears immediately in my rearview mirror, and only takes a few minutes to nail me for a $280 ticket :help:

JUST KIDDING :tongue: here's how it really goes:

If I go from standstill to wot, I am seeing 11s-12s AFR as soon as I hit 6-7-8 psi (my max). Typically this involves throttle position of 50 or higher, what I think of as "wot." However, this also happens if I reach those psi's at slightly lower throttle position, under heavy acceleration (merging into faster traffic while going up a hill, lets say).

Just a related note, not the wot situation: If I do not exceed 3-4 psi, my AFR may remain at 13-14-15 indefinitely, EXCEPT in "highway" mode as mentioned before.

This is based on so few tests though, I've only had those gauges in for a week, so I'll keep watching as closely as I can while avoiding getting arrested

[LtNoogie]

Well, I've been reading peter's and noog's post about how they are getting lean condition and I just thought about the idea since I've been reading around and no one really bothered to upgrade their injectors lol just my 2 cents

I picked up a set of four used tC injectors at lunchtime today.:smile:

They'll go on Friday. That'll give me a day and a half before I have to autox with them on Sunday.

[PETERPOOP]

If I go from standstill to wot, I am seeing 11s-12s AFR as soon as I hit 6-7-8 psi (my max).

You are seeing those AFR numbers sooner than camell and I. It isn't until we hit open loop till we see the 11-12. When you hit your 6-7-8 psi, is that when it is open loop? Did you check that

[kurokoma-kun]

After watching for a week now it looks like the 11s-12s always go hand in hand with open loop on my car.

It does take a couple seconds or longer for the scangauge to show that, but it takes that long for it to show any change!... Garm was saying it's display is slow compared to our a/f and other gauges.

[LtNoogie]

Mike, did you say that the fuel controller is connected to RPM? One difference is that when you are on the freeway, you are already up at around 2,000 RPM when you hit the gas for WOT.

When you're at a stop, unless you're doing some kind of launch control, you are at an idle of 700 or so.

This is just an observation.

[kurokoma-kun]

From a standstill, if I mash the gas pedal, as I accelerate and build boost pressure, AFR goes to 11-12 as soon as I get to about 5 psi. How long that takes seems to depend on how long it takes to get to that boost level.

To be able to say what happens at "wot" (aka wide open throttle), I feel I must check the scangauge, as it is what shows me tps/throttle position.

This is why I say open loop seems to depend on boost (and maybe other things as well) rather than tps alone, because at certain times (punching it from a dead stop going up steep hill for example) as soon as I hit 5 psi AFR will go rich at a tps of 30, not what I would normally call wot.

Normally, at part-open throttle, and boost pressures of less than 4 psi... this is when I'm seeing 14s-15s.

The EXCEPTION to ALL of this is at ~65+ miles an hour, when it goes rich at 1 psi, again, regardless of throttle position.



But honestly y'all, wtf do i know? All statements are pure speculation on my part. It's an intricate system, and beyond the basics I haven't the faintest idea how it really works. All this reading and learning and discussion is fun, yet I sure do wish a real supercharger expert would step in and just tell us what's normal! My curiousity must be satisfied... I say we kidnap one of the Blitz engineers and make him talk! :laugh:

[kurokoma-kun]

What cai are you using? short ram or true cai?

I have an AEM cai, the type with the filter in the fender. Stock MAF mounts in this in more or less stock position (oriented same direction in the pipe in other words)

KK the only difference we have at this point is the amount of time it takes to go open loop from a stand still. Other than that we are spot on with other conditions and readings.

Well and who knows, the fact that mine is manual and yours automatic may account for that difference. Or it may be that I just haven't studied mine long enough to be able to describe it accurately.

But yeah, since our cars are working so similar, though installed many months apart and with different style fuel controllers, I agree they seem to represent Blitz's target for "normal" operation. (i hope)

[whooppee777]

i know this has been covered before but whats the deal with the random vibrations i hear when my a/c is on? i turned it on for the first time yesterday and got the vibrations/noises

[LtNoogie]

Whooppee, I don't think any of us know. We're all waiting for someone else to say that something fell off the car as a result of running the A/C.

[PETERPOOP]

any new news from blitz?

[fmicle]

So, I was wondering, since I'm hoping to join the boosted crowd soon, what's the verdict on the air intake? Can I keep my AEM CAI or should I switch back to the stock airbox? Splicing or soldering?

[cali yaris]

Solder.

[Doc Zaius]

Spliced. It's held up for a year and a half now.

But I won't get any sympathy if a connection fails. :tongue:

[fmicle]

I had the AEM, I just removed the bypass filter and put a rubber coupler instead to eliminate the risk of the SC sucking it in...Soldering over splicing for sure...

Cheers

Hmm, I don't have a bypass filter, so I guess I have nothing to worry about there :rolleyes:

[xbalance]

is it possible remove the electro-magnetic clutch on the Blitz S/C and permanent run the S/C?

need to change to what type of pulley from electro-magnetic clutch.