Yaris vs. Prius

[conurebuddy]

I've been driving my girlfriend's Prius around for about a week now until I get my Yaris back. It is a smoother ride, although I think the Yaris is more fun to actually drive. The thing that really surprised me though was that I've been making a game out of hypermiling in the Prius to see the best mpgs I could get, and I havent noticed a significant difference between mine and hers.

Hers is a broken in Prius with about 50,000 miles on it, getting an average of 49 mpg. In my Yaris, I found I averaged about 44 mpg driving the same way. Seems like a pretty hefty price difference for a tiny improvement to me.

[MUSKOKA800]

When I was shopping the local Toyota salesman suggested that due to the price difference (~CA$10,000 + 13% taxes + loan interest here in Canada) the Prius would be no cheaper than the Yaris over the life of the car. Granted it is a "nicer" car, but I try to keep my vehicles for 10+ years and the prospect of replacing those expensive batteries during that period was not appealling. I wonder how the Prius' trade-in values will be after 6+ years when the original batteries are reaching there end-of-life. Cha-Ching $$$

[MadMax]

I could not get past the "smug" factor of the Pruis. I also drive a Jeep, and I get those smirky looks everytime I pass one. To me they are completely a different car from the Yaris, which is a much more hip and fun to drive machine. You don't see a lot of mod'd Pruises (however your pluralize it) out there, but about a third of the Yarii I see have been. Completely different markets if you ask me...

Cheers! M2

[IllusionX]

the prius advertises not much lower consumption than the yaris.

yaris ~5.3L/100km highway
prius 4.9L/100km highway

though, it would be more beneficial to drive a prius in the city than driving the yaris (28MPG ???) in the city..

[NaturalTopaz]

When I was shopping the local Toyota salesman suggested that due to the price difference (~CA$10,000 + 13% taxes + loan interest here in Canada) the Prius would be no cheaper than the Yaris over the life of the car. Granted it is a "nicer" car, but I try to keep my vehicles for 10+ years and the prospect of replacing those expensive batteries during that period was not appealling. I wonder how the Prius' trade-in values will be after 6+ years when the original batteries are reaching there end-of-life. Cha-Ching $$$

As of date, Toyota has not replaced any batteries in their Prius (in North America). 11 years and even Toyota doesn't know what the "replacement" cost will be....that says a lot for the Prius. (the 6 year myth is just that...a myth).

Prius resale values will be determine by the price of gas. Right now is the best time to buy them, either as new or preowned.

[supmet]

I could not get past the "smug" factor of the Pruis. I also drive a Jeep, and I get those smirky looks everytime I pass one.

^^ There's a south park episode on that subject, and I think it pretty much summed up why I don't want a prius. That and the manufacturing process of the batteries leads me to believe a yaris is better for the environment.

[Yaris Hilton]

http://www.kjrh.com/content/news/franchises/dwym/story/Do-Hybrids-Really-Save-Money-Over-Gas-Cars/LcbvAMpfHEaDecWl39Ra6Q.cspx

[deerebilt]

i agree the yaris is more economical than the prius for the price difference.iv'e had my 08 yaris sedan s 5 sp for a year and about 21000 mi. my overall avg mpg is 43.5. no expenses except fuel and oil/filter changes.i really like my yaris. to be honest when i bought my yaris i went in to drive a prius. i really liked it.but with price difference the the economy of the yaris i believe i made the right choice for me.

[Yaris Hilton]

If you're concerned about being "green," I suspect the manufacturing and disposal/recycling of the batteries make the hybrids' lifetime environmental footprints pretty large and deep. I'm sure there are analyses of that online, but I'm not motivated enough to look them up. I don't want a hybrid.

[MUSKOKA800]

As of date, Toyota has not replaced any batteries in their Prius (in North America). 11 years and even Toyota doesn't know what the "replacement" cost will be....that says a lot for the Prius. (the 6 year myth is just that...a myth).

Prius resale values will be determine by the price of gas. Right now is the best time to buy them, either as new or preowned.

11 years!!! Has it been on the road that long?
Toyota not know it's replacement cost? That process is no different than any other part. It would be pretty irresponsible of Toyota not to have a battery (or set) waiting in some NA warehouse ready for dealer delivery and installation.
Regarding battery life, I seem to recall 7 years being the life expectancy. Not sure where that number came from though. Hard to believe they haven't replaced one yet. Either due to collision damage, defect or wear-out.
True, Prius values are driven by gas prices. Toyota was sold out not long ago, now the shortsighted US market is looking elsewhere and resale values have plumetted. Not just Prius, but econo cars in general.

[schleppy]

I drove a Prius for an hour and I couldn't stand it. Once you're moving it's fine, but it felt so numb when you take off from a standstill. The switchover between gas and electric was also jerky and inconsistent.

I'd take my Yaris any day.

[voodoo22]

I did an extensive break down taking into account the percent of improved FE vs EPA, Hybrid rebates, etc and in order to break even on the Prius we would have to keep it for over 20 years and drive a minimum of 30,000km a year.

The only thing I didn't factor into the equation was the interest lost on the extra money you put into the Prius over the lifetime of the car, which makes the Prius even less favourable vs the Yaris.

Sure the Prius is a nicer car, but unless you drive 100% city in stop & go I cannot see it ever paying off vs the Yaris.

The only reason to buy a Prius under most circumstances is that you've convinced yourself you need it, when in fact a Yaris would do just fine. That's no different than how many people here (Ourself included) convinced ourself we needed a new car vs used.

[Yaris Hilton]

As for batteries, there's a guy over on ToyotaNation dithering over whether to sell his old Prius or his old Rav4. He's replaced the Prius batteries. Ask him how much they cost.

[regal]

I hate the Prius, the ONLY reason the Yaris doesn't have a 6 spd tranny and get 60 mpg on the highway is because it would prove the Prius to be the bloated over-engineered contraption that it is.

Hell my 1989 Handa and 1986 Jetta got better milage than the Prius, and they are probably still on the road driving somewhere.

[Yaris Hilton]

Yes, Toyota has a motive not to challenge the Prius' mileage with conventional technology.

[voodoo22]

I hate the Prius, the ONLY reason the Yaris doesn't have a 6 spd tranny and get 60 mpg on the highway is because it would prove the Prius to be the bloated over-engineered contraption that it is.

Hell my 1989 Handa and 1986 Jetta got better milage than the Prius, and they are probably still on the road driving somewhere.

I agree, for Toyota Hybrid is the new SUV cash cow.

[tetzyamis]

It depends on how often you go on freeway.
I drive 1/2 city and 1/2 highway.
I used to have 2001 Prius and was getting 48-52 mpg.
With Yaris, same driving, I get 35-37 mpg.
I drive 800 miles per month.
16 gallons of gas with Prius and 22 gallons with Yaris.
$15 savings per month with $2.50 gas.
$180 in year, $900 in 5 years, $1260 in 7 years...
Trade in of the 7.5 year old Prius was 40% of the original price.

[robkay]

I considered the Prius, as well. Never got as far as driving one, though. While doing my research I read somewhere that if you need to have something in the drive train replaced you can get into 5 figures pretty quickly. That told me all I needed to know. I figure as long as you are within the warranty period you'll be a very happy Prius owner But, once you're outside the warranty period, if something major goes out that 49 mpg will seem a lot less meaningful. You can buy an awful lot of gasoline for $11,000. That's why I went with a Yaris. I keep my cars a long time and I think I would save a lot in maintenance with a Yaris as opposed to a Prius.

[voodoo22]

I considered the Prius, as well. Never got as far as driving one, though. While doing my research I read somewhere that if you need to have something in the drive train replaced you can get into 5 figures pretty quickly. That told me all I needed to know. I figure as long as you are within the warranty period you'll be a very happy Prius owner But, once you're outside the warranty period, if something major goes out that 49 mpg will seem a lot less meaningful. You can buy an awful lot of gasoline for $11,000. That's why I went with a Yaris. I keep my cars a long time and I think I would save a lot in maintenance with a Yaris as opposed to a Prius.

I wouldn't worry about the Prius reliability as it's often rated the most reliable vehicle, but the initial up front cost cannot be recouped by the majority of owners. Especially the ones passing me on the hwy going over 100 km/h.

[PreciousPups4U]

My mom has a Prius (she got it last April 08) so I get to drive it often. Not daily, but probably 3 or 4 times a week. Her's is pretty much all city driving, short trips since she is retired. She averages around 40 mpg and of course does a bit better when I drive it. She is learning the methods though. She also drives very little so doubt she will ever need to replace those batteries. The salesman indicated to us Toyota thought that would be around 100,000 miles.

I am averaging around 35 in the Yaris (which I got in May 08), but have gotten several tanks in the high 30's. Unfortunately I have not broken 40 yet, but my driving is pretty much all city as well and short trips since I mainly work from home.

The Prius was twice the price of my Yaris. She loves the Prius and that is all that really matters just like I love the Yaris. She does know the Yaris would have made more financial sense especially since she only drives about 8000 miles a year, but she still has no regrets about getting the Prius.

[CTScott]

If you're concerned about being "green," I suspect the manufacturing and disposal/recycling of the batteries make the hybrids' lifetime environmental footprints pretty large and deep. I'm sure there are analyses of that online, but I'm not motivated enough to look them up. I don't want a hybrid.

I was wondering about that myself, as disposal of Lithium technology batteries is not a trivial thing. The junkyard that i bought my Prius wiper stalk from specializes in Prius parts. I asked about how they deal with the battery disposal and the guy that I spoke with said that there is an incredible market for used Prius batteries. They sell every one that they pull out to hobbyists experimenting with electric vehicles.

[SIPNGAS]

I've been driving my girlfriend's Prius around for about a week now until I get my Yaris back. It is a smoother ride, although I think the Yaris is more fun to actually drive. The thing that really surprised me though was that I've been making a game out of hypermiling in the Prius to see the best mpgs I could get, and I havent noticed a significant difference between mine and hers.

Hers is a broken in Prius with about 50,000 miles on it, getting an average of 49 mpg. In my Yaris, I found I averaged about 44 mpg driving the same way. Seems like a pretty hefty price difference for a tiny improvement to me.

This is the exact impression I got when I recently had to have my Yaris in the shop for some body work and rented a Prius for 3 days. I did NOT practice hypermilling and averaged 44 miles per gallon in the Prius while I normally get 38-40 with my Yaris. I'll pass on all the other "conveniences".

[SpaceShot]

Before buying the Yaris to replace my prior ride, I ran several spreadsheets comparing my weekly and monthly costs for the Yaris, Prius, and a few others.

Even with the mileage savings, the Prius didn't overcome the added cost for 10-12 years.
And recently I have found a slower commuting route that actually gets me within 1-2 Mpg of what my coworker gets in his Prius.

My father recently got a Altima Hybrid that was a dealer demo, and being retired and paying cash with a good trade, it was more worthwhile for him. Shopping, bowling, and visiting, with absolutely no rush hour driving.

For my commute, nothing beats the Yaris for economy, particularly at the 5, 8, or 10 year marks when I am likely to look for the next ride.

[ka0sx]

from what i recall the battery is warrantied for 10 years, and costs about $8k with battery + labor + waste disposal. if you need yours replaced outside of the 10 year period..... ouch?

[tetzyamis]

from what i recall the battery is warrantied for 10 years, and costs about $8k with battery + labor + waste disposal. if you need yours replaced outside of the 10 year period..... ouch?

It's 7 years. Not 10. If it's 10 years, then no one at this point needed to pay for it since the first prius came to U.S. in year 2001.

[2009Toyotoad]

Read all the post in this thread. Maybe its living out here in the Bay Area of maybe its just a personal opinion but the Prius is simply not that attractive of a car especially when stack against the econo box type cars out there. Honda did a better job of limiting the number of Civic Hybrids produced in "at least" MY 2006. They made only 25,000. Toyota on the other hand was hoping to produce over 100,000 units for the year. When the number of Prius on the road climbed quickly after the rise of gas prices last year, their cuteness and novelty wore off quickly.

The same could happen with the Yaris, but I feel better spending $10K to see that happen than $20K. Toyota will get more out of the Prius with the release of the plug in model, but I doubt the resale value will hold for the older model once the new model is successfully launched.

Those folks who bought the older version of the Honda Insight saw some softness in resale value offered once the hybrid Civic came online and Prius sales dipped a bit when the hybrid Highlander and Camry became available. Honda Insights are now a rarity in my area.

BTW just a quick reminder: Lithium is not a dangerous, hazardous waste like Nickel metal or Nickel Cadmium materials in other rechargeable battery technology. So disposal issues aren't really that much of an issue than say plastics, steel, or even paper.

Many other products which use batteries like computer "standby power" systems such as a "UPS" have made the switch to Lithium ion battery tech in 2006 so there are plenty of recyclers and re-purifiers in the market place for the materials. The rest is steel, paper, Aluminum, plastic, copper, with a very small trace of lead.

[ka0sx]

It's 7 years. Not 10. If it's 10 years, then no one at this point needed to pay for it since the first prius came to U.S. in year 2001.

either way, its too pricey of a replacement for my taste

[Goose]

I add to the info pile:

I've owned both the Yaris and the Prius. Both are dead-reliable and hold their value well when resale time comes. If you can time it right, resale value on the Prius can be crazy-good (such as when summer gas prices spike).

I agree that the milage difference doesn't justify the price premium for the Prius over the Yaris. The ~$6,000-$10,000 price difference will buy a lotta gas - even at $4.50/gallon. An economic argument for the Prius over the Yaris is thin at best; buying a Prius to "make a statement" is just plain stupid.

I can vouch for the "gadget appeal" of the Prius - it really is an impressive piece of engineering. The 2010 appears to have upped the bar when it comes to refinement and interesting options. Once one gets used to how the Prius drives (which isn't that different than any other car), it's a nice, if a bit boring, car to drive.

[Zaphod]

My own interest in the Yaris when it first came out sparked my parents interest in the car, but they ended up getting a Prius in the end, with all of the bells and whistles. Let me tell you, that's a nice, quiet smooth ride with lots of room front and back. All around great car, in my opinion.

It just wasn't worth the extra 10,000 to me, but in the end I was impressed enough with the quality of that car to go with the Yaris as my first import. I like them both, what can I say?

But I like to joke with them, that for the real gas mileage, I'd rather ride the 94 sportster, which cost less than a 4th of the Yaris even after customization and replacement parts where necessary, and gets 60mpg to boot ;)

[Yaris Hilton]

The Prius' batteries are nickel metal hydride (NiMH), not lithium ion. Nickel is a toxic metal.

[tetzyamis]

either way, its too pricey of a replacement for my taste

Yes it really is.
I sometime see people selling Prius for parts because it costs too much to repair.
I saw someome selling 2001 Prius for $1,000 for parts because it costs $12,000 to repair :eek:

[nsmitchell]

The handling of the Prius is very weird. I like the lightand nimble feel of my Yaris. How about the Honda Insight? Anyone test drive one of those yet?

[Goose]

Yep, I've driven an Insight. The short answer to the Insight/Prius choice would be to get the Prius if you're shopping these two cars. Although I haven't driven the 2010 Prius yet, I doubt it could be any worse than the new Insight.

The Insight doesn't have the refined feel of the Prius; everything on the Insight looks/feels like it was made to hit a low-price target (which they were). Since Toyota has dropped the base price of the new Prius to around $22K, it looks like a no-brainer. Honda should be thanked for putting price pressure on Toyota, since the Prius was expected to start at around $25K before the Insight showed up.

I'm not trying to bash the Honda - I've owned several over the years. I'm sure the Insight will hold up well, have good fuel economy and have decent resale value. Based on my experience of owning an '07 Prius, though, the new Insight has an uphill battle against the re-priced new Prius.

I'm going to drive a 2010 Prius within the next week (hopefully). I'll be sure to add to the thread once I've gotten some seat time.

[Bob Dog]

I went to a fuel cost calculator and compared the cost offueling a Yaris and a Prius. It turned out that it would take sixty years to make up the difference in price between the two when gas costs four dollars american per gallon at ten thousand miles a year.

[supmet]

I went to a fuel cost calculator and compared the cost offueling a Yaris and a Prius. It turned out that it would take sixty years to make up the difference in price between the two when gas costs four dollars american per gallon at ten thousand miles a year.

It takes a long time, but not sixty years...

34 mpg and 48 mpg is a difference of $20,000 with your variables.

[Bob Dog]

You do not give the method by which you arrived at these figures, so you can be to be the one to explain yourself. At a debatable 38 mpg and 46 mpg, the numbers that I used, the fuel saving is $183.06 per year, which in sixty years would amount to $10983.60, darn close to the difference between the cost of a Yaris and a Prius at the time I ran these number. These numbers are of course only entertaining conjecture, as the really have no grounding in any real long term projection.

[Bob Dog]

Using 34 mpg for the Yaris and 48mpg for the Prius, 10,000 miles a year and $4.00 as a US gallon price you arrive at yearly difference of $343 a year. At an approximate difference of $11000 it would take 32+ years to make up the difference, which of course would add up to 320,000 miles, if you do not add any battery replacement. If gas were to double in price to $8.00 a gallon It would take 16 years and 160,000 miles to pay back the difference. That does not figure in a battery replacement for the Prius, which at 160,000 may not be necessary. From a pure cost/payback scenario it it appears to be pretty undoable. To put a positive spin on this: Our little cars are more economical to run than any current hybrid over any reasonable projection for the life of the vehicles.

[roxy1]

Using 34 mpg for the Yaris and 48mpg for the Prius, 10,000 miles a year and $4.00 as a US gallon price you arrive at yearly difference of $343 a year. At an approximate difference of $11000 it would take 32+ years to make up the difference, which of course would add up to 320,000 miles, if you do not add any battery replacement. If gas were to double in price to $8.00 a gallon It would take 16 years and 160,000 miles to pay back the difference. That does not figure in a battery replacement for the Prius, which at 160,000 may not be necessary. From a pure cost/payback scenario it it appears to be pretty undoable. To put a positive spin on this: Our little cars are more economical to run than any current hybrid over any reasonable projection for the life of the vehicles.

exactly. some people do not understand that the savings going from 20 mpg to 34 mpg are dramatically greater than they are from 34 mpg to 48 mpg. diminishing returns as the mileage gets higher.

this is why there isnt much gas to be saved when you compare a 40 mpg car to a 60 mpg car.

at $4/gallon, a 60 mpg car will save $332 every 10,000 miles driven over a 40 mpg car. it would take 100,000 miles just to gain $3320, so that 60 mpg car better not cost much more than the 40 mpg car or its not worth it from a financial standpoint.

once your into the 40+ mpg range, the only way we can truly save any significant amounts of money is via non gas using vehicles.

[Lazerdot]

FYI,
I got an average of 38.85 MPG fron DFW to HOU on the highway and a bit of local driving. Probably about 70mph average on the highway with spurts well beyond that with a couple other Yariss tagging along and making sure other sports cars knew we were there...
My Neighbor bought a Smart Car, and as I see it the Yaris is a Wise Car (WyzCar) for my plate. Less money, fun to drive and modify, better overall for me.

Interesting figures on the costs etc...

[voodoo22]

this is why there isnt much gas to be saved when you compare a 40 mpg car to a 60 mpg car.

An easy way to illustrate this is to use different styles of measurement.

For example:

40 MPG = 5.88 Litres per 100 km

60 MPG = 3.92 l/100 km

So what looks like a 50% improvement using MPG is a 33% reduction in fuel used. Still a lot of gas saved, but not as much a MPG or KM/L suggests.