What Does "Off-topic / Other Cars / Everything else Discussions" Mean Anyway???

[MadMax]

There seems to be a real effort to close threads in this section of the forum, simply because they give the merest indication of getting political. One would expect that in a section titled "Off-topic / Other Cars / Everything else Discussions;" so why are they being closed just because there are some differing views on topics? As long as the attacks are not personal, I don't see why they deserve to be shut down; and the ones that have been don't even come close to being political.

If this section is simply automotive but non-Yaris discussions, then it should be aptly named. If the words "off topic" and "everything else" are included, then that should mean anything that anyone wants to discuss, right?

Cheers! M2

[AlexNet0]

Because it causes unneeded conflict. I know I dont like to read nasty messages between people

[ChinoCharles]

Political discussions harbor bad blood between members more effectively than any other medium I've seen on these forums, and we're trying to avoid that kind of general negativity. We will be more vehement from now on about closing politically motivated threads.

As Thomas said...

They invariably turn to crap and namecalling and just makes the atmosphere here suck. It's for the best that we should just not discuss politics on YW. This is a car forum after all, and even though this is the off-topic section, it's not really appropriate.

[tomato]

Discussions about politics and religion tend to bring out the worse in people for sure. But I have to agree with the OP, I've noticed that some threads unrelated to politics tend to shut down somewhat abruptly, as well. :iono:

Peace :headbang:

[YAR1S]

Im sure they have some pretty good forums on the internet to discuss politics besides forums about economy cars. :o

[tomato]

I mean like this thread for instance.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16255

What was wrong with this thread? No politics. People were just venting or whatever. No biggy. What's the problem? Just curious. :confused:

This is a friendly question BTW. Really.

I know I'm kinda new here, still trying to figure out the forum and all, but aren't repeat threads and noob questions part of any regular forum activities?

Peace:headbang:

[1stToyota]

I mean like this thread for instance.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16255

What was wrong with this thread? No politics. People were just venting or whatever. No biggy. What's the problem? Just curious. :confused:

This is a friendly question BTW. Really.

I know I'm kinda new here, still trying to figure out the forum and all, but aren't repeat threads and noob questions part of any regular forum activities?

Peace:headbang:

Yeah, I didn't see anything too scarey about that thread. Everybody acted pretty calm and the OP seemed to be just concerned. It wasn't like he got banned and then quickly signed on with a new account just to get even by lashing out and trashing YW. :iono:

[MadMax]

There is a clear distinction between a good debate and insulting each other. Obviously, none of us want the latter, but the former can be very educational. I had a very enlightening exchange via PMs concerning the articles on Texas succession, there were no personal jabs despite the obvious differences of opinion.

I clearly understand that when things get uncivil that the plug needs to be pulled; but it seems childish that members on this forum are not allowed to talk about issues outside of cars without extreme censorship.

It is very possible to disagree with someone and still be respectful about it, and that is not dependent on the topic but on those engaged in the conversation.

And while there are political forums available, such discussions in here would allow people we already know and hopefully trust to participate. Like I said, if this is not the intent of this section, then the "off topic" and "everything else" wording needs to be removed from the title, as it is obviously not the case!

Lastly, if off-topic discussions are of no interest to you, the the simple answer is to stay out of this area. There are several areas of this forum that I don't wander into, and I am sure I am not the only one like that.

Cheers! M2

[tomato]

It is very possible to disagree with someone and still be respectful about it, and that is not dependent on the topic but on those engaged in the conversation.



Well, that's true. I completely agree with you there.
But you know, sometimes it's hard to avoid knee jerk reactions in these discussions. :iono:

[Shroomster]

ok, ok, ok,......So Jesus, Mohammed and that John guy that formed that other religion walk in to a bar.....

[tomato]

I still would like to know why a thread like this one

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16255

was shut down :confused: so I don't post the wrong thread in the wrong place or whatever.

[GeneW]

There seems to be a real effort to close threads in this section of the forum, simply because they give the merest indication of getting political. One would expect that in a section titled "Off-topic / Other Cars / Everything else Discussions;" so why are they being closed just because there are some differing views on topics? As long as the attacks are not personal, I don't see why they deserve to be shut down; and the ones that have been don't even come close to being political.

If this section is simply automotive but non-Yaris discussions, then it should be aptly named. If the words "off topic" and "everything else" are included, then that should mean anything that anyone wants to discuss, right?

Cheers! M2

Some of us are aware of "stealthy" politicization and react accordingly. I wrote to some of the Mods and raised my concerns. We'll see.

Gene

[bobselectric]

Not to intrude, but I feel I must clarify myself here. While scrolling through "Random Pics" i found a post that "bothered" me. It was a post about "Bushisms" and accompanying photos that I felt were out of line. We get it- not everyone likes the guy. I can't say that I really do. I responded with a "paste job" on Obamaisms. Can't say I like him either. No comment just the paste. I was then attacked. If I'm in the wrong, what about the original poster?
Second, i pasted an article I found interesting about the Secession of Texas. Again, no commentary. The thread wad closed, and then reposted by Gene. That thread was closed, with a comment from Thomas that was quoted above. Remembering the "Thailand Troubles" thread (hope you are safe Thomas), I posted a giant HMMMMM in that thread.
I come here because there are people here who love their Yarii and want to talk about them intelligently. There are also people here who want to have an intelligent discussion on other issues, including politics.
I have not started an inflammatory thread based on politics, but I will not fail to answer an uninformed insult. I will defend My Country, and I will stand up for my beliefs. If a thread erodes to childish insults, personal or otherwise, it should be closed, as it is an attack. If a thread contains intelligent political discussion, whether it is agreeable to the current political situation or not, it should be allowed to thrive. Not everyone agrees, when done politely it is dissent. It is the foundation of all freedom loving people around the world. When dissent is not allowed it is censorship, plain and simple.

[frownonfun]

eh... i'm all for freedom of speech but i think by signing up to a forum you are kinda accepting that the mods may censor or close threads if they feel it's for the good of the site. being a mod kinda sucks sometimes so try to cut them some slack. i think for the most part they are just trying to keep things, um, idk, cordial.

but i think the off topic section still serves a purpose. even if we can't argue politics.

[MadMax]

eh... i'm all for freedom of speech but i think by signing up to a forum you are kinda accepting that the mods may censor or close threads if they feel it's for the good of the site. being a mod kinda sucks sometimes so try to cut them some slack. i think for the most part they are just trying to keep things, um, idk, cordial.

but i think the off topic section still serves a purpose. even if we can't argue politics.

I do understand it, but there has to be some consistency. For one, people are going to have to learn that not everything is going to be to their liking. If someone else doesn't like GW Bush or Obama, they should be free to post those opinions. And if someone disagrees, they should be able to do so as well. Freedom of speech was something our forefathers here in the US valued enough to make it the first amendment to our Constitution. I understand not tolerating threats and such, or personal attacks; but some threads are being deleted simply because of overzealous moderation in my opinion (or am I even allowed to say that? :iono:)

If you disagree with someone's viewpoints, you can try to persuade them through good use of rhetoric. It still may not convince them, but it may educate them or someone else. That is the value of healthy discussion and debate...practiced in societies since the dawn of civilization...

[GeneW]

I understand not tolerating threats and such, or personal attacks; but some threads are being deleted simply because of overzealous moderation in my opinion (or am I even allowed to say that? :iono:)

Yeah, and I think that zealousness will probably diminish. At least I hope so.

Gene

[tomato]

If you disagree with someone's viewpoints, you can try to persuade them through good use of rhetoric. It still may not convince them, but it may educate them or someone else. That is the value of healthy discussion and debate...practiced in societies since the dawn of civilization...

Soooooooooooooo... MadMax, did I ever manage to convice you that there is more to California than just "fruits and nuts?" :wink::biggrin:

(I'm just messing with ya, harmless joke!:biggrin:)

[frownonfun]

I do understand it, but there has to be some consistency. For one, people are going to have to learn that not everything is going to be to their liking. If someone else doesn't like GW Bush or Obama, they should be free to post those opinions. And if someone disagrees, they should be able to do so as well. Freedom of speech was something our forefathers here in the US valued enough to make it the first amendment to our Constitution. I understand not tolerating threats and such, or personal attacks; but some threads are being deleted simply because of overzealous moderation in my opinion (or am I even allowed to say that? :iono:)

If you disagree with someone's viewpoints, you can try to persuade them through good use of rhetoric. It still may not convince them, but it may educate them or someone else. That is the value of healthy discussion and debate...practiced in societies since the dawn of civilization...



i'm ok with disagreements. and frankly i'm ok with people hurling nasty insults at one another. it can be entertaining at times when you aren't involved in the argument. but i can see why the mods' point of view would differ. and sometimes it may seem like a thread is walking too fine a line and i reckon it's just easier to close it before things get ugly. you call it being overzealous and i'd say maybe they are just trying to err on the side of caution.

and don't get me wrong i love to argue about politics and religion. it's just one of those things i really love to do. but i just don't think it's good for this site. so i'm ok with avoiding those two topics. you might come across some political thread with some educational value every once in a blue moon but i think the majority of the time it's gonna be people flying virtual jetliners into other people's virtual twin towers. and i hope no one takes offense to that. i don't mean any. i'm just trying to illustrate how crazy people get when it comes to these two subjects.

[yaris-me]

I do understand it, but there has to be some consistency. For one, people are going to have to learn that not everything is going to be to their liking. If someone else doesn't like GW Bush or Obama, they should be free to post those opinions. And if someone disagrees, they should be able to do so as well. Freedom of speech was something our forefathers here in the US valued enough to make it the first amendment to our Constitution. I understand not tolerating threats and such, or personal attacks; but some threads are being deleted simply because of overzealous moderation in my opinion (or am I even allowed to say that? :iono:)

If you disagree with someone's viewpoints, you can try to persuade them through good use of rhetoric. It still may not convince them, but it may educate them or someone else. That is the value of healthy discussion and debate...practiced in societies since the dawn of civilization...

I don't understand why you are trying to force your will on everyone. If you were fair minded, you would ask for a vote. But you are not. You just bitch and moan to everyone's discontent.

[MadMax]

Soooooooooooooo... MadMax, did I ever manage to convice you that there is more to California than just "fruits and nuts?" :wink::biggrin:

(I'm just messing with ya, harmless joke!:biggrin:)

Well, ya almost did, until someone from California posted this...

I don't understand why you are trying to force your will on everyone. If you were fair minded, you would ask for a vote. But you are not. You just bitch and moan to everyone's discontent.

Wow, yaris-me, did your feelings get hurt somehow? If you have an opinion, post it; but all you are doing is launching a personal attack on someone without any evidence to back it up. I'm not being "fair-minded?" Where do you get that? I am asking for the ability for everyone on here to be able to post their opinions and to have healthy discussion without the kind of comments like the ones you just posted! And I also like how you speak for and represent the entire group. I was posting my opinion, but you have polled the entire population of this forum and found that my comments have been considered 100% as being discontenting by the entire group! Wow, I am impressed with your thoroughness! :clap:

Actually, you are actually providing a good counter-argument, which is maybe some people on here aren't mature enough to participate in adult discussions!

If people are not able to handle some aggressive discussion, then they can steer clear of the "off-topic, everything else" area of the forum, or at least threads that appear political. But all I am advocating is the ability to discuss non-Yaris issues on here without the immediate slam-dunk of a moderator.

[BLAZINBLUEVITZ]

i suggested a TV/MOVIE/GAMING section but was shot down saying it belonged in the off topic section. TRUE, but that section is dead and maybe a slight change would bring some lifE back in here in my opinion.

[ChinoCharles]

I closed MadDog's thread because I made the determination that nothing was going to come out of it. I say that meaning no offense to Tony, who is an awesome member and a good person, but the point of the thread was "what can we do to make Yarisworld more exciting." The answer is nothing. We can't install a ferris wheel on Yarisworld. It is only as exciting as the subject matter. This forum in particular turned into kind of a hang out spot about 18 months ago for a lot of us (me included) and I think since then discussion has become less and less Yaris-centric, and I'm starting to think it isn't such a good thing. I spend way too much time replying to threads like this. This thread is a direct result of the off-topic section getting out of hand.

Two things. One, if we do close your thread don't take it as a personal attack. 95% of threads I close are due to a later post and not the OP. Second, and I've said this before... threads are expendable. If I see a thread that I predict won't end well, I'll close it before things get out of hand. After 2+ years and 8,000+ posts here, I have a pretty good understanding of when that will happen and the other mods do too.

Actually, you are actually providing a good counter-argument, which is maybe some people on here aren't mature enough to participate in adult discussions!I wanted to highlight this comment and speak on this a bit. If YOU (all of you) want to be mature, do this... save me and the rest of the mod staff a heap of trouble and stop posting politics on Yarisworld. This isn't the place. Our membership is ENTIRELY too diverse for this kind of discussion. We have 50+ year old right wingers paying almost half their income in taxes arguing with 20-something dems who just got done spending 8 of their formative years watching the media demonize George W. Bush. Maturity is realizing why the previous scenario doesn't work.

Final thing I want to say... you guys are one hard group to moderate. Without naming names, I'll say that some of you are entirely too vehement about posting your personal beliefs. It baits other members into pissing matches, a phenomenon I myself get caught in as well. I'll be the first to admit it. My beliefs are as strong as anyone, but after the election I generally stopped posting threads about politics as that cycle taught me its a bad idea on these forums. Its cool to get caught in some banter every once in a while and get IBTL, but we have a few members that are just SO persistent in their posting of subject matter that has nothing to do with the car. Go back and look at the threads you've created. If a majority have nothing to do with the Yaris, you should reconsider your place on this forum.

As of yesterday, political threads are no longer welcome here. Moderators will decide what is politics and what is automotive economics. Don't bother "calling us out" if you think we closed something that isn't truly political. Again, threads are expendable. A good forum atmosphere isn't. If this isn't something you can stomach, I apologize, but that policy isn't changing.

If you want to revitalize Yarisworld, walk into your garage and start brainstorming.

[eTiMaGo]

Thanks Charles, I could not have said it better.

[Deltasix]

I would imagine making Yarisworld better would be done easily enough by revitalizing it. I find it mildly disturbing that one who has obviously put so much time and effort into making this the awesome place that it is would think it impossible to make it better. There are many things, some of them pointed out in the aforementioned thread that was closed, the one started by MadDog, that point out some issues that make this forum, at times, "Less than awesome."

A forum is not only as good as its subject matter, it is only as good as its member base, something I strongly believe having joined many web forums in the past, all of them on a wide variety of subjects. Moreover, that member base is not growing too much. Sure, the number of new members might be constant (especially counting spam bots of sorts) but the number of new members that stay and constantly post are slim, and there is reasoning for that too. I would agree with a lot of the posts in MadDog’s thread, “noobish” members and the like, but probably not in the same way they mean it. When a new member comes in and posts a question, one that may have been covered in the past, or might even seem a bit “out there” rather than berating them, why not simply answer politely? Monitoring those activities would be something I’d be more concerned about as a moderator, rather than is healthy political discussion occurring in a section titled “everything else,” because a forum only survives and thrives based on it’s member base, not on it’s subject material.

I do wish the point out that when I’ve had an issue, moderators I’ve talked to have been nothing but helpful. And trust me, I know how difficult (and at times unrewarding) running anything, let alone a webforum, can be, and I, and I’d venture a good deal others, do appreciate the hard work you guys do to make this a fun place to be, but rather than be upset about the need to respond to “threads like these,” I would be happy about the reasonable, thought out responses your member base is offering to help you make this forum a better place. In my experience, the politeness shown here is often not so, and it’s a testament to the respect the moderators command here that if there is an issue like this, members don’t feel the need to lash out or be childish (at least most of the time).

Oh, and as for the subject at hand, I’d really consider making a subforum in the “everything else” section for more mature discussion. Move everything into there that relates with domestic and world politics, economics, etc, and highlight it as a place that demands maturity. Heck, put ChinoCharles’s great adage in the description itself, “if you don't like it, don't click on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

[1stToyota]

I closed MadDog's thread because I made the determination that nothing was going to come out of it. I say that meaning no offense to Tony, who is an awesome member and a good person, but the point of the thread was "what can we do to make Yarisworld more exciting." The answer is nothing. We can't install a ferris wheel on Yarisworld. It is only as exciting as the subject matter. This forum in particular turned into kind of a hang out spot about 18 months ago for a lot of us (me included) and I think since then discussion has become less and less Yaris-centric, and I'm starting to think it isn't such a good thing. I spend way too much time replying to threads like this. This thread is a direct result of the off-topic section getting out of hand.

Two things. One, if we do close your thread don't take it as a personal attack. 95% of threads I close are due to a later post and not the OP. Second, and I've said this before... threads are expendable. If I see a thread that I predict won't end well, I'll close it before things get out of hand. After 2+ years and 8,000+ posts here, I have a pretty good understanding of when that will happen and the other mods do too.

I wanted to highlight this comment and speak on this a bit. If YOU (all of you) want to be mature, do this... save me and the rest of the mod staff a heap of trouble and stop posting politics on Yarisworld. This isn't the place. Our membership is ENTIRELY too diverse for this kind of discussion. We have 50+ year old right wingers paying almost half their income in taxes arguing with 20-something dems who just got done spending 8 of their formative years watching the media demonize George W. Bush. Maturity is realizing why the previous scenario doesn't work.

Final thing I want to say... you guys are one hard group to moderate. Without naming names, I'll say that some of you are entirely too vehement about posting your personal beliefs. It baits other members into pissing matches, a phenomenon I myself get caught in as well. I'll be the first to admit it. My beliefs are as strong as anyone, but after the election I generally stopped posting threads about politics as that cycle taught me its a bad idea on these forums. Its cool to get caught in some banter every once in a while and get IBTL, but we have a few members that are just SO persistent in their posting of subject matter that has nothing to do with the car. Go back and look at the threads you've created. If a majority have nothing to do with the Yaris, you should reconsider your place on this forum.

As of yesterday, political threads are no longer welcome here. Moderators will decide what is politics and what is automotive economics. Don't bother "calling us out" if you think we closed something that isn't truly political. Again, threads are expendable. A good forum atmosphere isn't. If this isn't something you can stomach, I apologize, but that policy isn't changing.

If you want to revitalize Yarisworld, walk into your garage and start brainstorming.

That was a good honest account of what's happening. :thumbsup:

[tomato]

Not to intrude, but I feel I must clarify myself here. While scrolling through "Random Pics" i found a post that "bothered" me. It was a post about "Bushisms" and accompanying photos that I felt were out of line. We get it- not everyone likes the guy. I can't say that I really do. I responded with a "paste job" on Obamaisms. Can't say I like him either. No comment just the paste. I was then attacked. If I'm in the wrong, what about the original poster?


Bob, I think I noticed your paste and saw some arguing after that. I didn't follow what happened real closely but what I think may have happened is that the poster who reacted to yours either 1) didn't see the original one, or 2) is a strong supporter of Obama, or 3) both, and got really offended and lashed back? :iono:

I wouldn't worry too much about it. This "random pics" thread is kind of a good example actually. Some of the stuff in there is positively hilarious, while some other stuff is just ... hmmm.. let's be diplomatic and just say "of questionable taste" and leave it at that, if you get my drift :wink:

In my opinion, whem you post anything in threads like "random pic", you can't be too sensitive about the response you get. It's not to be taken too seriously. Hope that helps.

Peace.

[tomato]

I closed MadDog's thread because ...

Thanks for taking the time to write out that detailed answer.

[ChinoCharles]

Any time!

[BLAZINBLUEVITZ]

how much longer til this is locked seeing as answer was posted in reply#25.....

[MadMax]

OK, here's another idea, what about a restricted access "off-topic, everything else" area that requires a moderator approval to join?

Of course, that would also mean a moderator could throw people out as well!

Thoughts?

Cheers! M2

[ChinoCharles]

OK, here's another idea, what about a restricted access "off-topic, everything else" area that requires a moderator approval to join?

What is the criteria? 50+ and Republican or 30- and Democrat? LOL no way!

[SailDesign]

What is the criteria? 50+ and Republican or 30- and Democrat? LOL no way!

No - 1 on 1, call it ThunderDome! :biggrin:

[KCALB SIRAY]

......and there is no crying in baseball!

[jclo3313]

ok can we move on now? everyone spoke their peace , vented and explained their positions. now can we go back to having fun ? please

Lets talk about the positions in the Kama Sutra.

[tomato]

OK, here's another idea, what about a restricted access "off-topic, everything else" area that requires a moderator approval to join?

Of course, that would also mean a moderator could throw people out as well!

Thoughts?

Cheers! M2

Hmmm.. moderating that one sounds like a full time job, 24/7 ! :smile:

On the other hand, you could have a "restricted" section with some kind of a warning "threads in this section may content offensive comments" or whatever. :iono:

I've seen that done before, but it's also true that the general tone changes completely.

[KCALB SIRAY]

can we have a section for Pavel's erection that he has 24 hours a day, lol

[jclo3313]

On the other hand, you could have a "restricted" section with some kind of a warning "threads in this section may content offensive comments" or whatever. :iono:

I've seen that done before, but it's also true that the general tone changes completely.
We do.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/group.php?groupid=23

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/group.php?groupid=13

[tomato]

Any time!

I didn't say I agree :wink: but I understand and I appreciate the effort you put in that answer.

What, somebody's gotta say it!

[1NZYaris1]

There seems to be a real effort to close threads in this section of the forum, simply because they give the merest indication of getting political. One would expect that in a section titled "Off-topic / Other Cars / Everything else Discussions;" so why are they being closed just because there are some differing views on topics? As long as the attacks are not personal, I don't see why they deserve to be shut down; and the ones that have been don't even come close to being political.

If this section is simply automotive but non-Yaris discussions, then it should be aptly named. If the words "off topic" and "everything else" are included, then that should mean anything that anyone wants to discuss, right?

Cheers! M2

Just wanted to get a comment in before this one gets closed too :laugh:
this section should be a Moderator free zone :headbang:
Gotta have fun some time , with out the risk of being baned.:evil:

[ChinoCharles]

I just banned bobselectric for a month and I'm not f&cking happy about it. It shouldn't have come to that. I like Bob as a member.

[frownonfun]

http://www.realitytvmagazine.com/blog/images/2008/06/king_rodney_celebrity_rehab.jpg

cmon everybody, you know the phrase...

[jambo101]

Thanks moderators for keeping the political BS out of the forum,

[tomato]

I just banned bobselectric for a month and I'm not f&cking happy about it. It shouldn't have come to that. I like Bob as a member.

Hmmm... that's unfortunate. I wonder what he's done but I'm not gonna ask.

I'm starting to think you guys (mods) have a tougher job than I realize because of the number of members and all. :iono:

[ChinoCharles]

If I ask you nicely to remove my name from your signature and I say please, I expect it to be done. You can argue with me about it afterwards.

[ChinoCharles]

Here, I posted a thread on it so there is no confusion.

http://yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16522

If you have an opinion you'd like to share on it, my PM box is open. Don't argue about it in the public forums, PLEASE. I'm serious.

With that, closed. Back to normal now everyone. NO politics, respect the mods, have fun, enjoy your Yaris, let me know if there are any questions or concerns. My PM box is ALWAYS open.