I predict gas will be $3(nyc) by summer, national avg $2.80

[Yawesh]

by summer, our Yaris will be worth 1.5x the price

[supmet]

Probably 3 bucks, but I doubt it will go too much higher given the economy and all the global warming hoopla. The oil companies know that going too high will make people invest in alternative fuels and hybrids more readily.

[AlphaFox]

crude just dropped 8% today down to $46.

[devinlamothe]

There's no way it will go that high with crude so low. They cannot justify the increase this summer unless the recession somehow lifts and crude starts to climb again.

[detroiter]

I've heard on the news that they (whoever "they" may be that is being referred to) suspect the price of fuel will hover around $2.30-2.35 at most until September. But then again, we all know talk is cheap.

[EasyDriver]

Why is it that gas prices rise instantly when crude goes up....but go down slowly when they drop? Probably has something to do with why the gas companies have had record profits in the last few years!!!!

[TheUnGroomed]

I don't think it will get to $3 this summer. But, I wouldn't be surprised if it got close. I vaguely remember my mom complaining about gas costing $1/gallon.

I'm not too worried. This summer the Yaris will be saved for trips farther than 15 miles. Closer trips get the bike.

[NJBob]

It's about $1.85 here in NJ and the news announced a probable rise to about $2.10 or so. Invest in Unleaded Futures? Oh, that's what got us in this mess in the first place. :iono: :mad:

[CB900F2]

What was it, a year and a bit ago when crude hit $140.00... There was no market reason why it hit that level (supply/demand).. It was push up by traders and a few very large investment firms..

There is a great 60min investigation on this.. If I find the link I'll post it.. It shows that during this period, there was an over supply of crude, and the futures market was just pushing the prices up up and away!.

There's no way it will go that high with crude so low. They cannot justify the increase this summer unless the recession somehow lifts and crude starts to climb again.

[NJBob]

What was it, a year and a bit ago when crude hit $140.00... There was no market reason why it hit that level (supply/demand).. It was push up by traders and a few very large investment firms..

There is a great 60min investigation on this.. If I find the link I'll post it.. It shows that during this period, there was an over supply of crude, and the futures market was just pushing the prices up up and away!.

I may have seen that program. Funny...years back when I invested in Unleaded futures it was the first summer that the prices DIDN'T go up. That's my luck. LOL :thumbdown:

[41magmag41]

It's rising here a little now in New Hampshire, hovering around 1.93 but I suspect it'll be up around 2.10 to 2.20 by June just for the summer traveling season. I think you'll see maybe 2.50 to 2.75 when the refineries kick over to home heating oil in october. Don't give up the ship yet on your yaris and go out and get that hummer have patience and she'll be worth her wait in gold again.

[Yawesh]

currently in nyc metro area i've seen prices as low as 2.05 to as high as 2.59

i generally buy gas around 2.05 - 2.25 here

[daf62757]

What was it, a year and a bit ago when crude hit $140.00... There was no market reason why it hit that level (supply/demand).. It was push up by traders and a few very large investment firms..

There is a great 60min investigation on this.. If I find the link I'll post it.. It shows that during this period, there was an over supply of crude, and the futures market was just pushing the prices up up and away!.

I wouldn't place too much faith in any investigation that CBS does. Their news is all done with an agenda.

[GeneW]

If the Israelis bomb Iran, as they're threatening to do, gasoline could go as high as $10.00 a gallon if you can find it at those prices.

Gene

[talnlnky]

gas will be AT LEAST 3.5 is not 4+ by late august.

[NJBob]

If the Israelis bomb Iran, as they're threatening to do, gasoline could go as high as $10.00 a gallon if you can find it at those prices.

Gene

Gene, thanks positive bulletins...like we aren't depressed enuff already. :iono:

[GeneW]

Gene, thanks positive bulletins...like we aren't depressed enuff already. :iono:

Not trying to depress, Bob, but to inform.

The scenario I've heard discussed is that if the Iranians are bombed, especially in their fuel enrichment systems at Natanz and elsewhere, is that they will retaliate through various actions.

One of the favorite scenarios involve the Iranians scuttling a few ships in the narrowest part of the Straights of Hormuz. This would be occur concurrently with attacks on Saudi oil delivery systems and attacks on various Emirate terminals as well. I am not sure if the US has prepared for these attacks.

Even if the Iranians kept their antics to threatening oil shipments they would increase the risk of oil deliveries. This would lead to increases in shipping insurance and a spike in crude oil futures.

Right now I suspect that the Israelis are holding back on attacking Iran because of US pressure.

Gene

[GeneW]

by summer, our Yaris will be worth 1.5x the price

There has also been some discussion of raising gasoline taxes in order to "build infrastructure".

Gene

[Ed_]

I may have seen that program. Funny...years back when I invested in Unleaded futures it was the first summer that the prices DIDN'T go up. That's my luck. LOL :thumbdown:

How about investing a little bit again. The rest of us could use a break:biggrin:

[NJBob]

Sounds like a plan! LOL

[2009Toyotoad]

by summer, our Yaris will be worth 1.5x the price

I kind of doubt that for two reasons.

1. unemployment is still very high particularly teen unemployment. This could put a real dent in those summer driving vacation plans.

2. Demand in other countries such as China is actually down slightly from 2008 numbers. In fact, I recently read an article indicating that the ban imposed in several chinese cities against compact cars has been lifted by the central government. Once demand comes back up in China it may not be quite as thirsty as before

[jambo101]

If the Israelis bomb Iran, as they're threatening to do, gasoline could go as high as $10.00 a gallon if you can find it at those prices.

Gene
Is that $10gal for premium or regular?

[NJBob]

It hit $2.00 this week. :thumbdown: Still I can't complain. I get a week and a half to two weeks on a fill up ($20 right now). :iono:

[GeneW]

Is that $10gal for premium or regular?

Probably for anything that will make your car go...


Sounds like Mr. Obama is doing one thing right in my opinion - he's discouraging Israeli attacks on Iran.

Gene

[Yawesh]

It hit $2.00 this week. :thumbdown: Still I can't complain. I get a week and a half to two weeks on a fill up ($20 right now). :iono:

out in the island, the average i estimate is about 2.29. i've gotten gas at 2.19, and seen some with 2.39.

[wooverstone8]

out in the island, the average i estimate is about 2.29. i've gotten gas at 2.19, and seen some with 2.39.

$2.39 for regular gas is the lowest I've seen in my area, which is Olympia WA.

[firebob]

The price of gas has nothing to do with the cost of crude or how much gas is floating on the Mississippi river in barges when there is no to off load it.

But yep I do think it will hit $3.20 this summer. This winter it will not go below $2 and $3.80 for the summer for E85.

Every one knows the ethanol producers are pushing for E85 now and by next summer it will replace the E90 that all of us are getting right now.

[Yawesh]

just past by a Mobil today charging 2.59 for 87! crasssy, when the stations around it are charging 2.29-2.39

[nemelek]

For the first time in a long time (5 years) gas costs more than Diesel. Last summer when pulling our trailer each mile cost $.38. The Yaris cost $.09/mile.

[NJBob]

For the first time in a long time (5 years) gas costs more than Diesel. Last summer when pulling our trailer each mile cost $.38. The Yaris cost $.09/mile.

I never understood that since it cost less to produce diesel since it's not as refined. :iono: Experts?

[devinlamothe]

Ugh it just hit 0.98 / L here ... it was 0.89 / L the other day, laaameee.

[nemelek]

I never understood that since it cost less to produce diesel since it's not as refined. :iono: Experts?

I am not an expert but I believe that there are a few factors involved. Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel became law and the refineries claim that there were more costs involved production. Second the demand increased. 20 years ago there were no pickups with diesel engines. 10 years ago there were very few of them. A couple years ago Cummins/Dodge sold their millionth diesel pickup. Add the Powerstroke, Duramax and big Motor Homes the demand went up more. Once again the refineries claimed they couldn't meet demand ant the cost rose.

[nemelek]

Gas prices are on the rise again. Up $.30 over the last month.

[SilverBack]

Already seeing a local average of $2.93 and rising. It'll definitely hit $3 BEFORE Summer

[NJBob]

It's around $2.30-2.40 here.

[mimelio]

$2.69 here in Central NY...

[aclark246]

I paid 2.48 in Southern Massachusetts the other day, but it looks like the average is 2.55-2.60. I hope it will stay under $3.00 but I'm not expecting it unfortunately.

[daf62757]

Until our government quits this global warming crap....it is snowing in N. Dakota for the first time in several decades.....and allows for more gas refineries and oil drilling, we will pay more for gas. This is a political problem, not a supply problem.

[slothman86]

2.47 in Savannah.

[yaris-me]

Until our government quits this global warming crap....it is snowing in N. Dakota for the first time in several decades.....and allows for more gas refineries and oil drilling, we will pay more for gas. This is a political problem, not a supply problem.

US output has been declining for two decades. Politics does not produce more oil resources. Oil is non-renewable. Government can not decree that we have more oil in the ground. It can only conserve what is left. Until the world reduces its dependence on oil we will see rising gas prices.:frown:

[Altitude]

Until our government quits this global warming crap....it is snowing in N. Dakota for the first time in several decades.....and allows for more gas refineries and oil drilling, we will pay more for gas. This is a political problem, not a supply problem.

Pricing of *any* goods are a political issue. Nothing has any intrinsic monetary value unless we assign some value to it. Who can blame gas/oil companies for trying to get a premium price for their product? Simple market economics, you charge what the market will bear. End of story.

Now, regardless of your stance on global warming the fact remains that OIL IS A FINITE RESOURCE... which means it WILL run out at some point so it only makes sense to find alternative forms of energy with or without global warming as a justification. When supplies run low or demand runs high the price will skyrocket no matter what. Not to mention that gas prices always, always, always go up for summer due to higher demand. This isn't some part of the "global warming conspiracy".

[BailOut]

Until our government quits this global warming crap....it is snowing in N. Dakota for the first time in several decades.....and allows for more gas refineries and oil drilling, we will pay more for gas. This is a political problem, not a supply problem.
I have disliked the term "global warming" sine I first heard it because I knew from the beginning that folks like you either wouldn't understand, or would understand yet play on the semantics of it anyway.

It's not strictly about warming, but rather how that warming produces climate change. Climate change can manifest in anything from growing deserts in Asia to freak snow storms in the U.S. to stronger hurricanes in the Atlantic.

You brought up an example of snow in North Dakota for the first time in decades, yet in the Reno/Tahoe area we had no appreciable precipitation from mid-February 2008 all the way until mid-November 2008. Conversely, we just finished off 8 straight days of appreciable rain, the most seen in this area since a lone record was set in 1911. If you look at your local weather over the previous 10 years as compared to the 10 year period previous to that, or even earlier, you will likely easily notice a pattern change.

Everywhere you look (if you bother to) there are signs that the climate is changing at a much more rapid pace than usual. Aside from the unavoidable finiteness of oil it has been proven by every research group that actually produces hard science that burning fossil fuels directly contributes to the issue of climate change. Wishing things to be different does not make them so.

[Yawesh]

2.99 Mobil One out at long island, lowest and mostly 2.69; seen some at 2.79(for regular gas)

i highly doubt that it will be lowered after the summer. maybe just a tad.

[Yawesh]

I've heard on the news that they (whoever "they" may be that is being referred to) suspect the price of fuel will hover around $2.30-2.35 at most until September. But then again, we all know talk is cheap.

yup, talk is cheap lol (news)

[Bob Dog]

The damn fossil fuels should have stayed in the ground....

[daf62757]

US output has been declining for two decades. Politics does not produce more oil resources. Oil is non-renewable. Government can not decree that we have more oil in the ground. It can only conserve what is left. Until the world reduces its dependence on oil we will see rising gas prices.:frown:

There is enough oil in the ground...under the sea...under snow...to last this country for over 100 years. The reason gas prices are rising is that people believe that there is a shortage of oil. There will be fossil based fuel sources for decades to come and until we get the government out of playing politics with oil, we will pay far more than we need to!

[Forrest]

87 oct. was 2.70 today (Southeastern NY)and for those cars that need the higher oct. it was 3.03 per gallon.
So...three dollars is here in some area.

[daf62757]

Pricing of *any* goods are a political issue. Nothing has any intrinsic monetary value unless we assign some value to it. Who can blame gas/oil companies for trying to get a premium price for their product? Simple market economics, you charge what the market will bear. End of story.

Now, regardless of your stance on global warming the fact remains that OIL IS A FINITE RESOURCE... which means it WILL run out at some point so it only makes sense to find alternative forms of energy with or without global warming as a justification. When supplies run low or demand runs high the price will skyrocket no matter what. Not to mention that gas prices always, always, always go up for summer due to higher demand. This isn't some part of the "global warming conspiracy".

I heard the "running out of oil" argument" back in 1976. Still have billions of barrels of oil left.....makes me think there will always be oil.

[daf62757]

I have disliked the term "global warming" sine I first heard it because I knew from the beginning that folks like you either wouldn't understand, or would understand yet play on the semantics of it anyway.

It's not strictly about warming, but rather how that warming produces climate change. Climate change can manifest in anything from growing deserts in Asia to freak snow storms in the U.S. to stronger hurricanes in the Atlantic.

You brought up an example of snow in North Dakota for the first time in decades, yet in the Reno/Tahoe area we had no appreciable precipitation from mid-February 2008 all the way until mid-November 2008. Conversely, we just finished off 8 straight days of appreciable rain, the most seen in this area since a lone record was set in 1911. If you look at your local weather over the previous 10 years as compared to the 10 year period previous to that, or even earlier, you will likely easily notice a pattern change.

Everywhere you look (if you bother to) there are signs that the climate is changing at a much more rapid pace than usual. Aside from the unavoidable finiteness of oil it has been proven by every research group that actually produces hard science that burning fossil fuels directly contributes to the issue of climate change. Wishing things to be different does not make them so.


Folks like me? You mean people that have common sense? How arrogant to think that anything man could do would have an impact on the world's weather. The earth has been heating and cooling for billions of years and will continue to do so for billions more. Our efforts on this earth have done nothing to cause this.

[Bob Dog]

.
Specious reasoning : If you can not see that the syncroncity of melting of ice caps hundreds of thousands of years old with happening at the same time as an the initiation of an environmental event only about 100 years old as interrelated then your perceptual abilties are quite dim, or you are indulging in self justifing rationalization. That same old greenland /iceland horsehit.

[roxy1]

its a lack of understanding the historical warming and cooling of our planet. The major error in judgement that those who believe in the myth of human induced global warming make is that the average temperatures of the 18th and 19th centuries were global optimums when in fact they were exceedingly below the normal mean temperature of the planet. ive seen no studies to support man induced global warming that most of the leading geological experts in the world would agree with.

i think most people hear the phrase "global warming" and thanks to Al Gore's brainwashing campaign automatically associate it with a human caused condition. yes, global warming is a fact and it is happening. but, in the greater historical perspective, it is not out of whack with global warming patterns of the past.

around 900-1300 A.D. it was 2 to 4 degrees Celsius warmer than today. was that the beginning of the industrial revolution? of course not.

personally, i dont care which side of the argument anyone falll on. we need deperately to clean up our planet for a myriad of reasons.

[Bob Dog]

There are regular flucuations, but the rate of melting of the icecaps is unprecedented and syncronous with the introduction of fossil fuel pollutants. The probability of these two events being in such a narrow window of temporal proximity and bring unrelated approaches the infinitismal.

[msfire671]

Well...Guam's gaas has just gone up.....from 2.84...now....$3.14 yup we are now at the 3 dollar mark!

[NJBob]

ive seen no studies to support man induced global warming that most of the leading geological experts in the world would agree with.

Agreed, it has not been scientifically proven that man is responsible for global warming.
http://www.bobishere.net/files/penguin2.gif

[aeipee13]

2.89 in los angeles today. premium was 3.11. Maybe if we start bombing everyone, prices will go down. Obama being nice seems to have caused this price increase.

[JBougie]

Why is it that gas prices rise instantly when crude goes up....but go down slowly when they drop? Probably has something to do with why the gas companies have had record profits in the last few years!!!!

Yeah .... it's all the oil companies fault :rolleyes:

[JBougie]

2.89 in los angeles today. premium was 3.11. Maybe if we start bombing everyone, prices will go down. Obama being nice seems to have caused this price increase.


$2.64 for 87 here in Minneapolis.
Last time I filled up it was $2.32

Lame.

[Bob Dog]

Have you been getting your medicine from Rush Limbaugh's doctor aeipee 13?

[JBougie]

Yes, let's all sip from the Pelosi cup and start ripping on people who don't agree fully with the left side.

It allllllways has to come to that, doesn't it?

[GeneW]

There is enough oil in the ground...under the sea...under snow...to last this country for over 100 years. The reason gas prices are rising is that people believe that there is a shortage of oil. There will be fossil based fuel sources for decades to come and until we get the government out of playing politics with oil, we will pay far more than we need to!

To last this country.... except that oil is a fungible commodity. If the rising middle class in China and India can bid more for it than we can they'll get it. Good luck getting the Congress, or oil companies, to keep "our oil in our country". Ain't gonna happen.

Let's be honest - I'm sure 150 years ago, when people lit their homes with whale oil, that they imagined that there would be plenty of whale blubber "out there".

Did not happen to be true, and the same will be true for petroleum.

Human Caused Climate change is a crock of horseshit and in the long run going to destroy people's respect for the environment, if only because they'll lump this junk science in with such useful things as waste remediation, soil erosion and sufficient potable water for all.

Gene

[GeneW]

Why is it that gas prices rise instantly when crude goes up....but go down slowly when they drop? Probably has something to do with why the gas companies have had record profits in the last few years!!!!

Most of the oil companies record profits were from well receipts in the US when oil was over $140 a barrel. A lot of companies dumped their retail operations because the profits were greater in distribution and because environmental remediation is an ass pain in the US. Especially bond requirements and destructive tank testing, at least in some states.

I don't know why prices "rise instantly". Considering the slim profit margins on gasoline sales - it's pennies per gallon for gas station owners - maybe these folks are being cagey with their more expensive gasoline in the tank?

Of course if you want to bring back price controls and impose "price gouging" regulations, well, enjoy your wait in the gas lines. Heh, heh, heh.

Gene

[GeneW]

To stick to the point - prices this summer will depend upon political factors. Carbon taxes, Israeli intrigue and whether or not joblessness will continue to increase. We see joblessness go over twelve to fifteen percent and there will not be a lot of increase in prices over about $3.00.

Gene

[GeneW]

rming, but rather how that warming produces climate change. Climate change can manifest in anything from growing deserts in Asia to freak snow storms in the U.S. to stronger hurricanes in the Atlantic.

Climate change can manifest many changes in weather patterns. The Jury is still out about whether or not trace amounts of Carbon Dioxide are capable of affecting the thermal balance of the Earth.

Zagoni, a former Global Warming Supporter, explains a different model discovered by Miskolczi, who resigned from NASA after they rejected his model because it did not support their "agenda".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykgg9m-7FK4

This is a pretty good counterexample, based upon observations seen on Earth and off planet.

I'm really hoping that we can put this myth behind us and get on with newer sources of energy, not 18th century peasant energy. There isn't enough oil to go around, and it's needed for petrochemicals and plastics rather than being squandered on fuel.

Gene

[Bob Dog]

The left, the right , how mid 20th century. Human caused planetary change is documented and the primary reason people chose to deny it is not factually based but due to the discomfort it causes to acknowledge it. Better to rationalize it to away and live in the self congratulatory mode we existed in for the past 100 years, Truth is we are the monkey that pisses poison. Realize that and get on with your life. Neither of the political parties offers deliverance . We have traded our empire for an excess of comsumer goods and a lack of investment: and what investment Americans have made have been stolen away by the manipulaters of our economic systenm for their own self indulgence. Democracts support an often parasitic lower class and Republicans are toads to wealthy investor class of that wants it all and would rather have us all live as virtual slaves The pollution will continue as long mass and energy create power, physical or manifestly political.

[roxy1]

[QUOTE=Bob Dog;331751]The left, the right , how mid 20th century. Human caused planetary change is documented QUOTE]

the only thing documented is the climate change itself. the changes we've seen in cimate have in fact happened before in similar degrees of severity if you look back far enough in time. this was long before the industrial revolution, but it still happened. many respected geological scientists throughout the world have reached the conlusion that there is currently no cause and effect that has been proven this time around.

the sad thing is we never should have needed al gore and the like spreading misinformation to motivate the countries of the world to clean up our planet. there are enough other reasons to clean things up. somer people will be shocked, however, that global warming will continue no matter how clean we get. then, it will cycle down. this is the history of the planet.

[daf62757]

[QUOTE=Bob Dog;331751]The left, the right , how mid 20th century. Human caused planetary change is documented QUOTE]

the only thing documented is the climate change itself. the changes we've seen in cimate have in fact happened before in similar degrees of severity if you look back far enough in time. this was long before the industrial revolution, but it still happened. many respected geological scientists throughout the world have reached the conlusion that there is currently no cause and effect that has been proven this time around.

the sad thing is we never should have needed al gore and the like spreading misinformation to motivate the countries of the world to clean up our planet. there are enough other reasons to clean things up. somer people will be shocked, however, that global warming will continue no matter how clean we get. then, it will cycle down. this is the history of the planet.

Good...no excellent post!

[daf62757]

The left, the right , how mid 20th century. Human caused planetary change is documented and the primary reason people chose to deny it is not factually based but due to the discomfort it causes to acknowledge it. Better to rationalize it to away and live in the self congratulatory mode we existed in for the past 100 years, Truth is we are the monkey that pisses poison. Realize that and get on with your life. Neither of the political parties offers deliverance . We have traded our empire for an excess of comsumer goods and a lack of investment: and what investment Americans have made have been stolen away by the manipulaters of our economic systenm for their own self indulgence. Democracts support an often parasitic lower class and Republicans are toads to wealthy investor class of that wants it all and would rather have us all live as virtual slaves The pollution will continue as long mass and energy create power, physical or manifestly political.

I think there is a difference between pollution and climate change. One is caused by man, the other is a natural physical occurrence that has happened for billions of years.

[2009Toyotoad]

If the rising middle class in China and India can bid more for it than we can they'll get it. Good luck getting the Congress, or oil companies, to keep "our oil in our country". Ain't gonna happen.
Gene

Gene, you are paraphasing ideas or subpositions proported as facts by many organization in the past. Japanese empire 1937, East India trading company 1800s, British crown in both the 18th, 19th, and early 20th century. The names and commodoties have changed with the times. However, the facts and circumstances proposed didn't happened or didn't occur as proposed.

War, revolution, technology, and money will tip the circumstances into U.S. favor.

[aeipee13]

Have you been getting your medicine from Rush Limbaugh's doctor aeipee 13?

it was a joke.:smoking:

[yaris-me]

There is enough oil in the ground...under the sea...under snow...to last this country for over 100 years. The reason gas prices are rising is that people believe that there is a shortage of oil. There will be fossil based fuel sources for decades to come and until we get the government out of playing politics with oil, we will pay far more than we need to!

Prove it! :laugh:

[Bob Dog]

I know you will head in the sand righties continue to go on without concern, but it is nothing more than your continuing denial of facts before your face. If the earth were to change from day to night instantly it would be shocking, no matter that this happens every day over a period of 24 hours everyday. I am not arguing climatic cycles, I am stating that tremendous quantities of pollutants have been introduced during last 100 years of the industrial revolution and concurrently icecaps that took hundreds of thousands years to come into existence have melted. I expect that the concepts of syncronicity and probability escape you and that you percieve things in a binary, is/isn't manner. The past 150 years have been one of the five greatest extinction events in the multibillion year history of the earth, but then things just live and die, right?

[daf62757]

I know you will head in the sand righties continue to go on without concern, but it is nothing more than your continuing denial of facts before your face. If the earth were to change from day to night instantly it would be shocking, no matter that this happens every day over a period of 24 hours everyday. I am not arguing climatic cycles, I am stating that tremendous quantities of pollutants have been introduced during last 100 years of the industrial revolution and concurrently icecaps that took hundreds of thousands years to come into existence have melted. I expect that the concepts of syncronicity and probability escape you and that you percieve things in a binary, is/isn't manner. The past 150 years have been one of the five greatest extinction events in the multibillion year history of the earth, but then things just live and die, right?

So the ice caps are melting? I guess the scientific reports that the southern cap has actually gained ice escaped you. Reports that world temperatures are cooling probably didn't get your attention either. Every ten years ago, you liberals come out with some new gloom and doom perspective that will end the world. Problem is, you are always wrong and instead of addressing the previous lies, you start new ones.

I can sum up my objections to global warming in two words. Al Gore. If you are siding with Gore, then you have to be wrong!

[daf62757]

Prove it! :laugh:

Sure....convince your brain dead liberal socialist elitist politicians to lift the ban on drilling and I will.

[Bob Dog]

Typical rightie; find a straw dog to bark at and yap with the pack when some else does. My name is not Al Gore. Not all of us need any one leader to form our opinions. You do not like the idea that the ice caps are melting so you deny the fact to both yourself and others: its called willful ignorance and it is meat and bread of retro right.

[daf62757]

Typical rightie; find a straw dog to bark at and yap with the pack when some else does. My name is not Al Gore. Not all of us need any one leader to form our opinions. You do not like the idea that the ice caps are melting so you deny the fact to both yourself and others: its called willful ignorance and it is meat and bread of retro right.

Typical rightie? I doubt it.

[roxy1]

Typical rightie; find a straw dog to bark at and yap with the pack when some else does. My name is not Al Gore. Not all of us need any one leader to form our opinions. You do not like the idea that the ice caps are melting so you deny the fact to both yourself and others: its called willful ignorance and it is meat and bread of retro right.

no one is denying the ice caps are melting. yes, they are indeed. they have before, and they will again. and, yes, global warming is an undisputable fact. not one scientist in the world will dipute that. that humans have cause it is wholly unproven, since temperature changes in similar time frames have happened in the distant past, before fossil fuels were part of this earth.

al gore loves to talk about the unprecedented changes in the patterns of the melting ice caps. it is not unprecedented, and he has been proven to be unknowlegeable on this. secondly, the satellite images he loves to reference have only been used for about 30 years to monitor the polar ice cap.

science being unable to prove global warming is human induced isnt the same as denying that there is global warming. willful ignorance is the inability to understand the empirical requirements that make up legitimate research and the historical context of global warming patterns over the history of the planet.

none of this means that humans havent contributed to global warming, but global warming patterns over the history of the earth combined with the current time frame most people reference for the current warming have made it difficult thus far to prove any cause and effect.

[Altitude]

secondly, the satellite images he loves to reference have only been used for about 30 years to monitor the polar ice cap.
.

Yeah it's a shame that we haven't been using satellite imagery to monitor the ice caps for hundreds of years now...oh wait...satellites haven't been around that long. :rolleyes: Clue: there are other methods to determine the historical freeze and thaw of ice-caps, but I suppose that doesn't matter to you.

So I guess the debunkers stance is that since we can't prove that man can impact the climate then we just don't need to worry about it or change our ways. Nevermind that alternative and planet friendly supplies of energy are a wise and good thing to strive for regardless of the health of the planet. Nevermind that we can spawn all sorts of new industries and improve the lives and livelihood of all living beings on this planet. Nevermind that no one has yet to put forth a good reason why we shouldn't all be working - right now - to improve these things. If you don't feel it then there ain't no issue. Got it.

Let me just leave it at this - I don't give a crap whether the climate change is man-made or not. It shouldn't have to take something so drastic or controversial to get people off their asses to make things better.

[daf62757]

Yeah it's a shame that we haven't been using satellite imagery to monitor the ice caps for hundreds of years now...oh wait...satellites haven't been around that long. :rolleyes: Clue: there are other methods to determine the historical freeze and thaw of ice-caps, but I suppose that doesn't matter to you.

So I guess the debunkers stance is that since we can't prove that man can impact the climate then we just don't need to worry about it or change our ways. Nevermind that alternative and planet friendly supplies of energy are a wise and good thing to strive for regardless of the health of the planet. Nevermind that we can spawn all sorts of new industries and improve the lives and livelihood of all living beings on this planet. Nevermind that no one has yet to put forth a good reason why we shouldn't all be working - right now - to improve these things. If you don't feel it then there ain't no issue. Got it.

Let me just leave it at this - I don't give a crap whether the climate change is man-made or not. It shouldn't have to take something so drastic or controversial to get people off their asses to make things better.

I agree with most of what you said...except that some of these eco friendly things actually cause more damage. Using electric cars, by itself would be great, only the increase of coal to power the power plants would cause more damage than cars that use fossil fuel. Until we start building new nuclear plants, things like electric cars will cause more harm.

[Bob Dog]

The simple fact is that the ice caps can be documented as being hundreds of thousands of years old by ice core samples and they are melting syncronously with the introduction of fossil fuels during a period of 100 years. The odds of this happening in this specific manner using only the crudist of probability estimation is in the neighborhood of a thousand to one. But go ahead, continue to live in the Disneyland sand castle that Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh and their compadres at Fox News and such have built for you: I am sure it would be much to difficult for you to live in a world with sharp, jagged edges and no easy answers.

[roxy1]

So I guess the debunkers stance is that since we can't prove that man can impact the climate then we just don't need to worry about it or change our ways.

Let me just leave it at this - I don't give a crap whether the climate change is man-made or not. It shouldn't have to take something so drastic or controversial to get people off their asses to make things better.

of course there have been other ways to monitor the melting of the ice cap in the past. i only brought up al gore's obsession with the current method because he was exposed as having very little knowledge of the planetary history of polar ice cap melts as it relates to the last 30 years.

here is what i have already stated in previous posts:

"personally, i dont care which side of the argument anyone falll on. we need deperately to clean up our planet for a myriad of reasons. "

and...

"the sad thing is we never should have needed al gore and the like spreading misinformation to motivate the countries of the world to clean up our planet. there are enough other reasons to clean things up."

so, i am with you on that point of emphasis. count me as one who doesnt need one shred of evidence that there is human induced global warming to be motivated to clean up this earth. people should focus on all the reasons, lest they be disappointed if global warming continues nevertheless. there will still be many benefits to ourselves and our planet.

[Bob Dog]

$2.39 in southern Virginia 5pm 6/8/09

[aeipee13]

$2.39 in southern Virginia 5pm 6/8/09

yeah, back to the subject.

[roxy1]

yeah, back to the subject.


yeah, ok.

$2.69 for regular in Michigan today.

[GeneW]

The left, the right , how mid 20th century. Human caused planetary change is documented and the primary reason people chose to deny it is not factually based but due to the discomfort it causes to acknowledge it.

Non-sense.

Truth is we are the monkey that pisses poison. Realize that and get on with your life.

Misanthropic non-sense.

The pollution will continue as long mass and energy create power, physical or manifestly political.

Third law of thermodynamics supports a paraphrase of this view, if you consider waste products to be "pollution". Sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't.

The jury is still out on people causing some or most of the climate change recently seen. Some damn good science is being done that disputes some or all of this dogma that Al Gore and others peddle for a living.

Science isn't about anecdotes of drowning polar bears, loss of ice caps or other phenomena, it's about establishing causes and relationships.

Either the models work or they don't. Skepticism isn't denial, it's being scientific.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykgg9m-7FK4


I'll be glad to agree that we're running out of fossil fuels and need to fix this problem. I reject this idea that Americans and Europeans must sacrifice manufacturing jobs, their industries and ultimately must live like peasants so that some people can feel good about themselves.

Gene

[GeneW]

I saw about $2.70 for "brand" regular around here. You all who pay less probably don't have tax hungry road warriors like our Governor, "Fast Eddie", who has been clocked nine times going over 100 miles an hour on the Turnpike. Laws and taxes are for little people you know.

Gene

[SE-RIX]

91 octane just reached $3.00/gallon in socal

[anonymous user]

91 octane just reached $3.00/gallon in socal

Filled up yesterday, $3.019 (91 oct) here in the highest gasoline taxed state (honolulu, HI) in amerikka!!

[YarisOwnersDad]

Regular (87 Octane) is $2.599 here in western KY.

[voodoo22]

Fact: polluting is bad for our health. Even if you don't care about the planet, how greedy are we as a species that we care more about our immediate gratification than our own health and wellbeing?

Fact: no one knows for sure what we are doing to the environment and anyone who says they know 100% what our exploitation of the planet is doing, should be met with skepticism as they are probably advancing a self serving agenda.

Fact: Gas has been over .90 a litre for a long time in Toronto. Today it's 94.9 or which is 3.59 a gallon.

[Bob Dog]

Since this thread has pretty much died I figured that on would I bring it back to life it and respond to the dismissive comments of Gene W.
1) Human caused planetary change is documented: Have you never seen a copper mine or a mountain with its top blown off to access coal or ever heard or seen pictures ofof the Pacific gere. Pretending these things do not exist is nothing but wishful rationization to allow those who can not deal with the fact that fossil fuel culturecauses harm to this planet to remain in their comfort zone. While there is global warming can still has room to be questioned by a reasonable person, the fact that ice caps that have been in exixtence for hundreds of thousands of are melting at the same time as our little industrial revolution is a quantifiable, and documented.
2. We are the monkey that pisses poison. We are the only species that creates inorganic waste that is toxic and does not degrade naturally.
3. In its most forgiving definition, pollution is the release of toxic substances which are destructive to lifeforms. To deny the existence of pollution is not just rationalization it is in fact denial to the point of is complete self delusion.
The fact that individuals, political parties, and corporate manipulate the perception of events does not mean that the events do not occur. Pretending that events that have documentation from mulitple sources that do not have no apparent motivation to manipulate their perception is not just scepticism. It is irrational self vindication.
"Dirty" Bob Dog
Gas $2.69 a gallon and rising south central VA 6/11/09

[daf62757]

Since this thread has pretty much died I figured that on would I bring it back to life it and respond to the dismissive comments of Gene W.
1) Human caused planetary change is documented: Have you never seen a copper mine or a mountain with its top blown off to access coal or ever heard or seen pictures ofof the Pacific gere. Pretending these things do not exist is nothing but wishful rationization to allow those who can not deal with the fact that fossil fuel culturecauses harm to this planet to remain in their comfort zone. While there is global warming can still has room to be questioned by a reasonable person, the fact that ice caps that have been in exixtence for hundreds of thousands of are melting at the same time as our little industrial revolution is a quantifiable, and documented.
2. We are the monkey that pisses poison. We are the only species that creates inorganic waste that is toxic and does not degrade naturally.
3. In its most forgiving definition, pollution is the release of toxic substances which are destructive to lifeforms. To deny the existence of pollution is not just rationalization it is in fact denial to the point of is complete self delusion.
The fact that individuals, political parties, and corporate manipulate the perception of events does not mean that the events do not occur. Pretending that events that have documentation from mulitple sources that do not have no apparent motivation to manipulate their perception is not just scepticism. It is irrational self vindication.
"Dirty" Bob Dog
Gas $2.69 a gallon and rising south central VA 6/11/09


What about volcano eruptions? They cause more damage to the air than man.

[voodoo22]

It's over a $1 a litre in Toronto now. That's basically $4 a gallon.

[roxy1]

Since this thread has pretty much died I figured that on would I bring it back to life it and respond to the dismissive comments of Gene W.
1) Human caused planetary change is documented: Have you never seen a copper mine or a mountain with its top blown off to access coal or ever heard or seen pictures ofof the Pacific gere. Pretending these things do not exist is nothing but wishful rationization to allow those who can not deal with the fact that fossil fuel culturecauses harm to this planet to remain in their comfort zone. While there is global warming can still has room to be questioned by a reasonable person, the fact that ice caps that have been in exixtence for hundreds of thousands of are melting at the same time as our little industrial revolution is a quantifiable, and documented.
2. We are the monkey that pisses poison. We are the only species that creates inorganic waste that is toxic and does not degrade naturally.
3. In its most forgiving definition, pollution is the release of toxic substances which are destructive to lifeforms. To deny the existence of pollution is not just rationalization it is in fact denial to the point of is complete self delusion.
The fact that individuals, political parties, and corporate manipulate the perception of events does not mean that the events do not occur. Pretending that events that have documentation from mulitple sources that do not have no apparent motivation to manipulate their perception is not just scepticism. It is irrational self vindication.
"Dirty" Bob Dog
Gas $2.69 a gallon and rising south central VA 6/11/09


i dont even know who you are arguing with. because some of us dont buy into unproven premise that humans have caused global warming (doesnt even mean they havent, just that there is no sound science to prove it) you seem to then jump erroneously to the conclusion that we deny there is a huge problem with humans polluting the earth. NO ONE HAS DENIED THAT!

you said "To deny the existence of pollution is not just rationalization it is in fact denial to the point of is complete self delusion"

again, i think you are arguing with an imaginary foe. unless i missed something in this thread, nobody has denied the exisitence of pollution, or that man has caused it, and NO, denying there is sound proof of human caused global warming is not denying that humans are polluting the hell out of our planet.

-no one has denied that humans cause pollution
-no one had denied that human recklessness causes certain planetary change (only that human induced global warming has in no way been proven with any sound science). there are all types of planetary destruction. global warming, even if humans did cause it, would be just one component of that.

-finally, and most importantly, i dont see anyone shutting their eyes and making denials that we need to get serious about cleaning up our planet. if they have, then shame on them for being blind, deaf, and stupid.

...and $2.89 regular in Michigan today.

[Bob Dog]

Daf62757: Giant meteorites ,and vocanos are both capable of causing more damage thanwe arebut neither one is a "species."

roxy1: I wasn't addressing you or any points you made. You may chose to argue with me , I did not choose to argue with you. As it specifically states at the start of my statement I was speaking to points by Gene W.. Suffice it say that I politely decline any further discussion with you.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

3.85 by me in ny for regular....

[aeipee13]

i paid 3.0 (god damn) 9 for regular in San Pedro over the weekend.

[CKaelin]

$2.639 in Mass

[Yaris Hilton]

I filled my daughter's tank yesterday at $2.489, lowest I've seen in a while.

[YarisOwnersDad]

They are saying that inventories have gone up, which means that we should have peaked on gas prices by now. Sure hope so!

Tomster

[gwasabi]

FUCK IT's 3 in hawaii!!!

[Yawesh]

They are saying that inventories have gone up, which means that we should have peaked on gas prices by now. Sure hope so!

Tomster

i think it will rise up to 3.30-3.50(highest)for regular before averaging out for the fall at 3 dollars.

[wooverstone8]

Two days ago gas went up $2.89 a gallon for regular in my area, but fell down to $2.79 today.

[Forrest]

3.85 by me in ny for regular....


Yikes...$3.85??????????????????????????

Low I've seen 2.69 to a high (high oct) of $3.07

Have not seen anything like your 3.85. That's scarey

[Yawesh]

Yikes...$3.85??????????????????????????

Low I've seen 2.69 to a high (high oct) of $3.07

Have not seen anything like your 3.85. That's scarey

some places do charge recklessly - they probably also added credit card charge, and full service fee, etc. I have a Mobil that's charging 3.09, when other stations hundred meters away - are charging 2.89