Running with oil plug out

[Frank Graham]

Best friend's 2007 Yaris had the oil changed at some quicklube joint which, apparently, left the drain plug loose. They also didn't reset the "maintenance due" light, which caused her to not pay attention to the "check engine" light. At the stoplight last night, engine stopped. Bottom line: the engine was run without any oil for some time. Currently will not start (oil plug and filter replaced, coolant topped up). Only one computer code: P0012 ("A camshaft position - timing over-retarded (Bank 1).

Is this hopeless?

[TinyGiant]

call the oil change place tell them they owe you a motor.

they have insurance for stuff like that.

[schleppy]

First call the shop. Get them to own up for this mistake. KEEP ALL THE DOCUMENTATION.

If they get shitty with you, call the BBB, local news stations, etc. Fight this one.

[nemelek]

It doesn't sound good. Every so often I hear horror stories of these shops. I don't even trust the dealer enough in regards to the proper fill or viscosity to let them do the change. I agree with schleppy do what is ever necessary. Also insist that Toyota do the engine rebuild.

[PHXDEMON]

Thats what you get for letting some idiot at jiffylube change your oil instead of changing your own :laugh:

[schleppy]

Thats what you get for letting some idiot at jiffylube change your oil instead of changing your own :laugh:

Come on man, there's a time and a place for those kinda comments. How would you feel if you were in Frank's position and someone dumped on you? :mad:

[PHXDEMON]

Come on man, there's a time and a place for those kinda comments. How would you feel if you were in Frank's position and someone dumped on you? :mad:

I'm not trying to be a dick I'm just saying. Do as the previous posters said and contact the shop. If you have all documentation and are professional about it they should probably replace the motor. If they give you any hassle get a lawyer.

[coheed]

Sounds like a spun bearing. Deffinatly call the shop and get them to pay for a new motor.

[SIPNGAS]

I take my car to have the oil changed. Not that I couldn't do it myself but the place I live at (an apartment) won't allow it. It's a chance I have to take, too.

Sorry about your friends car. I'd be heartbroken and mad as hell. Do not let them give you the runaround.

[Phaeton]

Jiffy Lube had to replace my transmission in my Tacoma for the same reason.
I paid for tranny flush and they never put any fluid back in. I had to fight tooth and nail, but they paid in the end.

[b_hickman11]

I take my car to have the oil changed. Not that I couldn't do it myself but the place I live at (an apartment) won't allow it. It's a chance I have to take, too.

Sorry about your friends car. I'd be heartbroken and mad as hell. Do not let them give you the runaround.

My apartment complex doesnt "allow" it either, but I still do it! Dont even need a jack!

[YarisSedan]

Perhaps pistons are siezed inside the motor due to running long without oil. The vehicle would need a new motor and the shop that did it will have to pay for it. Do not settle for them to put in a used or rebuilt specifically ask for a new one.

If you can not get them to pay you can try to unseize the motor by putting a extremly large and strong breaker bar to the crank and trying to rotate it by hand. If you can break it loose and start up you may be lucky. Still there will be engine damage and the life off the engine is going to be greatly reduced either way. But atleast you have a running vehicle again.

[Shroomster]

I take my car to have the oil changed. Not that I couldn't do it myself but the place I live at (an apartment) won't allow it. It's a chance I have to take, too.

Sorry about your friends car. I'd be heartbroken and mad as hell. Do not let them give you the runaround.

you need to make friends with people that own houses with garages lol

[YarisSedan]

I dont know why people go to quicklube shops and have people who have barely basic knowledge to change the oil let alone know what types of filters and oil quantities vehicles take. And then take that inexeperienced person and tell him to change your oil in under 15 minutes is just asking for disaster.

take it to someone who you can trust like a local shop if you dont know of anyone use yelp. Find a place that has good reviews and track record. Someone experienced that is going to take their time is going to ofcourse have less mistakes.

You hear time after time of quicklube shops making mistakes. Most of the time no one employed there not even the manager is of drinking age.

I am sorry if i offend anyone here that works a jiffylube or simular place but all the quick lube shops around my area are like that.

I know first hand i hired a completed idiot lube tech at my last shop. One time he put in about 8 quarts of oil in a 4 cylinder car. Another time a car had its oil chagned and was parked outside without having oil put in, one time he put oil in the power steering resivoire. Dont ask me how these things even happend i have no clue. After i fired him he got employed at jiffy lube and still works there years later. I feel bad for the peoples cars he has changed oil on. I am sure they are leaving with more oil than is required or less oil.


Oh yeah and he is ASE certified too!!!!!! LOL

[schleppy]

Any updates Frank?

[Frank Graham]

Guys, I gotta thank everyone who has piped up! You have given me courage to take on the oil change place and you have given me some advice (get a new engine from Toyota, instead of a rebuild) that I wouldn't have known about.

My pal (female) is utterly heartbroken about the thing: she is a single mom who drives her kids all over kingdom come every day and she is out a car for the duration of getting this fixed. Got to get a rental car that she can't afford for how ever long this takes.

She's got a valuable resource in, actually, me. I'm a lawyer and I'm hammering out what we call a "nuclear-war" letter to the lube joint in a few minutes. I expect them to come back with "not our fault" or "you can't prove it" or "ya wanna sue us? Get in line" response.

I used to do all my own car maintenance when I was in school and afterwards, so I identify with the DIY attitude. My pal, though, hasn't the time or ability to do this sort of thing.

Anybody have a WAG (wild-ass-guess) as to the cost of getting a new engine, assuming we have to do that without the assistance of the lube joint?

[Tamago]

Anybody have a WAG (wild-ass-guess) as to the cost of getting a new engine, assuming we have to do that without the assistance of the lube joint?

www.car-part.com

look for an xA, xB, echo engine. you'll have to swap wiring harnesses though, and throttle bodies.

should be able to get a low miles longblock for under $500. if i was local to you i'd do the swap for $200 labor.

you should be able to get the entire job done for under $1000 if you research properly.

[Shroomster]

try http://www.toyodiy.com for the exact engine......

they list a short block (NEW - everything but the cylinder head) for 2200 and looks like a completely new head costs about 800

so roughly $3,000 for a brand new COMPLETE MOTOR WITHOUT INSTALLATION

[WolfWings]

Anybody have a WAG (wild-ass-guess) as to the cost of getting a new engine, assuming we have to do that without the assistance of the lube joint?

11101-21061 and 11400-21220 will run about $3200 combined, those are the bare-minimum body-shop-labor-intensive replacement options of new lower block, new head, but re-using everything down to the valve cover and oil pan but none of the guts as far as I can tell.

There's no price listed for the 'full engine assembly' part, 19000-21860, but likely around $4-$4.5k from Toyota.

[Shroomster]

^^^looked like it came with the gaskets...minus head gasket....

[WolfWings]

Well, the 'partial engine assembly' would be a LOT faster to get into the car, pull accessories, bolt onto new engine, drop the whole she'bang in at once then. Around 8 hours less labor than the 'put everything together' option, which makes it break-even. Maybe a winner if it'd take more than 8 hours to swap bits and bobs for the two-piece option.

[Shroomster]

Well, the 'partial engine assembly' would be a LOT faster to get into the car, pull accessories, bolt onto new engine, drop the whole she'bang in at once then. Around 8 hours less labor than the 'put everything together' option, which makes it break-even. Maybe a winner if it'd take more than 8 hours to swap bits and bobs for the two-piece option.


so guess a better ball-park would be at least $4,000-$5000 with parts & labor

[SpaceShot]

I would agree with the others and try for a completely new engine. Short of that, it needs to be a full rebuild.

Even if you could free the pistons again, given the error and other factors, the camshaft bearings are probably shot. You also need the conrods pulled out and checked for stress. It is amazing she didn't put one through the block.

The only thing worse than a noisy misbehaving engine, is a noisy engine that suddenly goes silent.

Also for a full rebuild, get the head gasket done, and make sure the head is checked for flatness before going back on. You want to avoid any future leaks as best you can.

If the local dealer does the work, try to get a cheaper rental from them. Otherwise Budget can be the least expensive unless you have a discount through some sort of group association with one of the others. Also check with her insurance and the shops, many will at least reimburse the rental expense as part of the repair charges.

Otherwise try rearranging the schedule such that you can do without the car for 2-3 days a week and try something like Zip Car for the remaining days.
http://www.zipcar.com/

Keep all the records and receipts, even notes of phone calls.

Good luck...

[YarisSedan]

In your letter say that you are filing a official complaint with the beaura of automotive repair BAR, consumer affairs, and the BBB. The BAR will help you get your car repaired. Just throwing out those names will usually cause quick action in helping you because they have the power to shut the shop down.

[Creeper]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-Toyota-Yaris-1-5L-Engine-Only-121-Miles-Almost-New_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116Q QhashZitem170177761562QQitemZ170177761562QQptZMoto rsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

heres one on ebay less then 200 miles maybe worth it for under 2k?

[06silveryaris]

hey Frank have them pay for the rental most rental car companies can direct bill these kinds of companies. I take a time of work just to stand out front of there shop and hand everyone who drove there a flyer with your situation.haha then watch people turn around would be great

[silver_echo]

slightly better idea... find a local "houseless"(the new "PC" term) person and pay them to stand there with said flyers...

[Pitt Yaris]

That sucks, hopefully they do right. Also, I changed my oil on the Yaris for the first time today (First 5k miles). All I can say is, EVERYONE that owns a Yaris should change their own oil. It's 10x easier than my 97 cavalier was. The filter is so convinient and easy to get to.

[Pitt Yaris]

The hardest part of changing your own oil on a yaris is getting a jack under the car, haha. Everything else is cake.

[Frank Graham]

Well, guys, here's an update on the saga so far:

The quicklube joint had insurance. They are stepping up to the plate to authorize repairs/rental car as soon as we can get the vehicle seen by a mechanic. Ins. co issue is they want the owner to pay a portion of the PARTS costs, since we will be installing new Toyota parts (the only kind the Toyota dealer will install) and the engine was, after all, used (70,000 miles at the time).

Help me with advising the owner on the decision she has to make: should she pay roughly $600/800 for her share of new Toyota parts (ins. co paying the rest, plus ins. co paying for all labor) (and in return she gets the warranty of the dealer and Toyota (1 year) for the work) OR

Should she go for an independent engine shop, use remanufactured parts, pay roughly nothing on the parts (since reman parts will likely be considered by the ins. co as same as the used parts taken out) and get a limited warranty from the independent shop and limited warranty on the reman parts?

Looked at another way: is having Toyota dealer and new Toyota parts worth $600/800 over the independent shop/reman parts?

What do we tell her?

[SIPNGAS]

Personally, I'd pay the 800 for all new parts. But I'm no expert...

[nsmitchell]

you need to make friends with people that own houses with garages lol

I am always offering to change my friend's/relative's oil to save them money and get synthetic in their engines. I hate to see people waste money, and I actually enjoy changing oil! Makes me feel warm and fuzzy, and greasy too! :wink:

[CTScott]

Well, guys, here's an update on the saga so far:

The quicklube joint had insurance. They are stepping up to the plate to authorize repairs/rental car as soon as we can get the vehicle seen by a mechanic. Ins. co issue is they want the owner to pay a portion of the PARTS costs, since we will be installing new Toyota parts (the only kind the Toyota dealer will install) and the engine was, after all, used (70,000 miles at the time).

Help me with advising the owner on the decision she has to make: should she pay roughly $600/800 for her share of new Toyota parts (ins. co paying the rest, plus ins. co paying for all labor) (and in return she gets the warranty of the dealer and Toyota (1 year) for the work) OR

Should she go for an independent engine shop, use remanufactured parts, pay roughly nothing on the parts (since reman parts will likely be considered by the ins. co as same as the used parts taken out) and get a limited warranty from the independent shop and limited warranty on the reman parts?

Looked at another way: is having Toyota dealer and new Toyota parts worth $600/800 over the independent shop/reman parts?

What do we tell her?


If all prior maintenance (other than oil changes) has been done at the Toyota dealership, I would push for making the quicklube place pay to maintain the same "level of service". If the prior scheduled maintenance had not been done, or not been done by Toyota, then what she was offered is probably as good as it gets. In that case, I'd probably put out the extra $600-$800 to have a brand new engine with a factory warranty.

[yaris-me]

Brand new engine with one year warranty, FTW! $800 is the way to go.:thumbsup:

[anexrx7]

Well considering the warranty, the previous amount of miles on the engine, and the situation, I think the $800 deductible for parts is very fair. I realize that she's probaly paid enough for rental now, but if she could get other parts replaced, now would be a good time as they're all warranty and she's paying just the percentage of each. Keep us posted, sorry that she got the bad luck of those places, I used to know all the guys that worked the places in my home town, and they didn't know shit...

[Red Horse]

$800 is not much cause I got my left side fender replace for $800 flat (hit and run) :(

[schleppy]

Brand new engine, no question.

[1NZYaris1]

Pay the $600-$800 , safe is better than sorry :thumbsup:

[HTM Yaris]

That sux ASS . She had the BLITZ SUPER CHARGER .......right ? :biggrin:

[YarisSedan]

Id say thats pretty fair. When someone makes a mistake they are entitled to correct thier mistake so that you are in a position where you were before. Not better than before. So having you pay the difference is within total reason.

If you dont want to pay the extra money i would suggest getting a jasper engine. A lot of times they are better than new. Very high quality rebuilts. They come with a 100k warenty belive. http://www.jasperengines.com/

That stays with the engine even if you sell the car. Check them out i havent had a chance to use them personally but a guy came to my shop and showed me thier demo video and it was impressive what testing they go through on thier engines.

[stran]

The answer depends on how long your friend plan on keeping the car. If your friend plans to sell in a few years, it doesn't make sense to spend an extra $800. 70,000 miles is roughly half the car's lifespan. I find in old Japanese cars (~200K miles), it's not the engine that gives, but that everything else goes. Fixing stuck windows, rain leaks, coolant leaks, broken vents, ignition interlock, etc eventually gets to be too much even if the motor is still smooth and powerful.

If it were me, I'd go with the remanufactured and pocket $800. Just for reference, Kelly Blue Book puts this car at about $6,870.

[PHXDEMON]

The hardest part of changing your own oil on a yaris is getting a jack under the car, haha. Everything else is cake.

Word. I have to drive up on blocks to fit the jack under :laugh:

[PHXDEMON]

800 isn't bad for a new engine with genuine parts. I say go for the 800 if she plans on keeping it another few years.

[PHXDEMON]

$800 is not much cause I got my left side fender replace for $800 flat (hit and run) :(

Ouch. I can't imagine an OEM fender running much more than about 150-200. 600 bucks for labor + paint :thumbdown:

[slvryaris]

Same crap happened to me once with my tranny pan capscrews on a truck of mine and they owed me big time.