Toyota working on Yaris Hybrid

[GeneW]

Guess it's a logical idea.... I don't want one but many here may go for it.

"Hybrid car shoppers should all thank Honda for shoving its $20,000 2010 Insight in Toyota's face, because the world's best-selling hybrid manufacturer has just switched to bargain mode.

Automotive News reported today that Toyota will sell a hybrid "low-priced spinoff" of its subcompact Yaris below the $19,800 base price of the Honda Insight, which made headlines months ago for planning to undercut the $22,000 base price of the Prius (it's now $2,200 lower). The model won't be ready until at least 2011."

http://www.boston.com/cars/newsandreviews/overdrive/2009/03/yarisbased_hybrid_is_toyotas_c.html


Gene

[GeneW]

Toyota confirmed the rumors circulating that the company planned to build a cheap, fuel-efficient hybrid to compete directly with the Honda Insight. The plans were announced in an interview given by Akihiko Otsuka, chief engineer for the 2010 Prius, to Japan's Nikkei newspaper.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10204362-48.html

[360cubes]

A hybrid version with a 1.3L petrol would be a good way to get 55+mpg without trying hard. As long as they keep a low starting price point, it will sell well. I can see the Insight doing well with sales, due to it's much lower price over the Prius, and mileage is fairly similar.

[mr. poopyhead]

eff the hybrid! just bring us the diesel!!!

[Syroyizhka]

Do hybrids come in both manuals and automatics?

[Bob_VT]

Toyota already markets the engine shut down technology (at traffic lights) in Japan.

IMO they need to make a cheap Prius or a Prius "lite" to compete with the Insight just based on interior room.

I doubt they fear Honda since Honda sells so few cars...... the dealers here are LOADED with Fit's and Insights.

[ham]

eff the hybrid! just bring us the diesel!!!

I agree. A friend of mine has a Golf TDI 50-55 MPG. The Yaris at over 1000 lbs lighter should have no problem beating that. SO YES.......F the hybrid and give me diesel and the veggie mods to follow.

[mr. poopyhead]

I agree. A friend of mine has a Golf TDI 50-55 MPG. The Yaris at over 1000 lbs lighter should have no problem beating that. SO YES.......F the hybrid and give me diesel and the veggie mods to follow.

i used to share a 1992 TDI jetta with my brother (it's still running strong with 300k km on it)... the thing is a complete rustbucket. it EASILY outdoes my yaris in fuel efficiency and weighs probably twice as much...

i don't know what the obsession with hybrids is in north america... all this talk of "green" and crap. are 100s of kilograms of toxic, costly and polluting Li-poly batteries really "green"? is the decreased service life really "green"?

sure a diesel may spew out more particulate pollution and such, but the total environmental cost is lower than any hybrid, especially when we talk about alternative sources of diesel.

north america needs to get with the program and embrace diesel like europe has, instead of falling for all this green marketing with hybrid and electric plug-ins... not that they aren't good technologies. but as of now, their total environmental impact isn't as minimal as people make them out to be.

[cali yaris]

Why would they do this when the Scion (also a toyota) iQ is coming out that will make very high mileage all-gas for $15,000? -- is it the number of passengers that creates another niche in the market?

I don't understand the strategy, but I'm cheering them all on for producing choices for us.

[BLAZINBLUEVITZ]

I agree. A friend of mine has a Golf TDI 50-55 MPG. The Yaris at over 1000 lbs lighter should have no problem beating that. SO YES.......F the hybrid and give me diesel and the veggie mods to follow.

yaris beating a diesel volkswagon anything:laugh: even i draw the line at cars who's torque is almost double what our horsepower is..........

[BLAZINBLUEVITZ]

Why would they do this when the Scion (also a toyota) iQ is coming out that will make very high mileage all-gas for $15,000? -- is it the number of passengers that creates another niche in the market?

I don't understand the strategy, but I'm cheering them all on for producing choices for us.

i heard rumor of a LEXUS hybrid off the yaris platform.....

[BailOut]

i don't know what the obsession with hybrids is in north america... all this talk of "green" and crap. are 100s of kilograms of toxic, costly and polluting Li-poly batteries really "green"? is the decreased service life really "green"?

sure a diesel may spew out more particulate pollution and such, but the total environmental cost is lower than any hybrid, especially when we talk about alternative sources of diesel.

north america needs to get with the program and embrace diesel like europe has, instead of falling for all this green marketing with hybrid and electric plug-ins... not that they aren't good technologies. but as of now, their total environmental impact isn't as minimal as people make them out to be.
While I can appreciate your enthusiasm there are a few problems with your presentation. Standard diesel technology (forget Blutec and its ilk as it is by no means widely available, it is costly, and it uses a fair amount of precious metals to do what it does) is truly dirty. Allowing them to run freely on our streets would be akin to removing the catalytic converters from our cars. This would herald a return to smog (or additional smog if you already have it), respiratory problems and even acid rain. No, thank you.

While hybrids are by no means a perfect solution they offer Partial Zero Emissions (PZEV) movement and have engines that are tuned to a different cycle (Atkins vs. the usual Otto) in order to more fully burn each drop of fuel, thereby burning cleaner than most other engines.

Your remark about "decreased service life" is unfounded. Prii tend to go for more than 300k miles on their OEM battery pack, and the few replacements that have been done so far have been done by Toyota at no cost.

The batteries in hybrids are not toxic landfill time bombs as you portend. Each manufacturer has a system in place that brings the batteries from the dealerships back to the OEM (usually Panasonic or Sony) and they recycle them. Sony is totally secretive about everything but Panasonic's literature shows that their recycling is 95% efficient. While 100% would be better this is a higher efficiency number than any other kind of recycling besides glass and aluminum. That 5% loss is also rendered environmentally inert before it is disposed of.

Before anyone bothers to link the "Hummer greener than a Prius" tripe please read your search results more closely and realize that it was written by a marketing guy and has been debunked by more professional and technical sources than I can count.

Again I do not believe that that hybrids are the solution. I do believe that they are a step in the right direction, though, while a transition to diesel would do more harm than good.

[GeneW]

Electrical cars would be better than either hybrids or diesel. Alas, there isn't enough generating capacity in the US to replace the energy equivalent of 20 million barrels of gasoline per day. Probably not even by a factor of three.

Smart grids and legions of windmills will not change that situation. Americans will rebel when their electric company shuts off their AC or they have rolling blackouts, probably faster than when "carbon credits" insure fifty to one hundred percent increases in electric bills.

More nuke plants would come closer to replacing that lost 20 million gallons of gasoline but that's not too likely either. I wouldn't venture to guess how many nuke plants it would take, but it's probably hundreds more than we have in the US today.

So, for the interim,there may have to be compromises, even with air quality. If the Europeans, who are allegedly more green than the US can tolerate diesel, why not us?

The only appeal for diesel for me personally is the ability to safely make my own fuel. Aside that they're pains in the ass to maintain.

Gene

[voodoo22]

The bottom line is cost. Until there is a hybrid which will easily save you money, they will not be the choice of the typical driver.

I do my best for the environment, but I'm not going to spend thousands more on a vehicle just to be perceived green and I know I value FE much more than the typical driver.

Hopefully this car will change the Hybrid from a profit and pr cow to a viable vehicle which makes sense, much like the extremely efficient diesels in Europe.

[fearturtle44]

This is why the US car companies have problems. Whereas Honda/Toyota have/are developing cheaper hybrid cars, the US does not. Only thing close is the upcoming electric Volt which will sell for $40,000 (unbelievable). Just think if GM had the foresight five years ago to develop a Yaris type hybrid(s) or electric for under $20,000? That car(s) would not be at market and selling very well.

Still loving the Yaris and the 42MPG (highway).

PS. My wife is in the market for a truck to replace our Baja. You cannot find a small AWD truck. Seems like all you can find are the big trucks like the Ridgeline and over $35k

[CtrlAltDefeat]

I personally think that hybrid technology is just too soon for our current technology. You have to pay so much extra to get an anemic car that doesn't get that much more MPG then a Yaris when driven normally. Electric cars mainly shift the source of the pollution to the power plants. (although I believe power plants are more efficient in miles traveled/carbon output then cars...) What is really needed is efficient electricity production from nonpolluting sources, and lightweight efficient batteries/super capacitors that will not pollute when disposed of. Until then hybrid and electric vehicles are just a stopgap measure, and we will continue to destroy the environment.

[GeneW]

This is why the US car companies have problems. Whereas Honda/Toyota have/are developing cheaper hybrid cars, the US does not. Only thing close is the upcoming electric Volt which will sell for $40,000 (unbelievable). Just think if GM had the foresight five years ago to develop a Yaris type hybrid(s) or electric for under $20,000? That car(s) would not be at market and selling very well.

Still loving the Yaris and the 42MPG (highway).

PS. My wife is in the market for a truck to replace our Baja. You cannot find a small AWD truck. Seems like all you can find are the big trucks like the Ridgeline and over $35k


.....because the tired old production processes used at GM, Ford and Chrysler do not adapt themselves well to inexpensive cars. Their management does not want them and the UAW does not want them.

High fixed costs, job rules, MBA rice bowl tactics all raise the costs of building flexible systems that would make small cars affordable to produce.

Before anyone objects let them offer a US made subcompact car. The Aveo is made in Korea by Daewoo. The Focus is exclusively made overseas in several countries. Ain't sure about Chrysler.

Heck, the Yaris isn't made in North America, nor are its peers. The Yaris is probably made at a relative loss but is "carried" by higher end Toyota products. This also might explain why Toyota does not advertise the Yaris - you don't want to ramp up demand for a product that you take a modest loss to make in Japan.

Now a Hybrid..... that's another story. Maybe. Maybe the Yaris Hybrid will be Toyota's loss leader to get you into the Toyota family?

Gene

[GeneW]

What is really needed is efficient electricity production from nonpolluting sources

Since you've opened the floor for discussion how about citing just one?

Even windmills pollute - in their production phase. They also injure wildlife. If they work at all, since the wind doesn't blow all of the time.

What else? Coal? Geothermal? Hydroelectric? Nuclear fission?

Ain't no such thing, it's just degrees of damage.

Gene

[nemelek]

Doing some simple math and making some basic assumptions the hybrid Yaris wouldn't work for me. The hybrid would be 6,000 to 7,000 more than the same non-hybrid car. I drive 10,000 miles a year. In 10 years 100,000 miles at 40 mpg I would use 2,500 gallons of gas for the yaris I have now. 50 mpg for the hybrid I would use 2,000 gallons. The 500gallons saved at 3/gallon would save me $1,500 in fuel. If the hybrid got 100 mpg it would take 20 years for me to recoup the price difference.

[Shroomster]

Since you've opened the floor for discussion how about citing just one?

Even windmills pollute - in their production phase. They also injure wildlife. If they work at all, since the wind doesn't blow all of the time.

What else? Coal? Geothermal? Hydroelectric? Nuclear fission?

Ain't no such thing, it's just degrees of damage.

Gene

technically newton's law of equal/opposite reactions... lol

[CtrlAltDefeat]

Since you've opened the floor for discussion how about citing just one?

Even windmills pollute - in their production phase. They also injure wildlife. If they work at all, since the wind doesn't blow all of the time.

What else? Coal? Geothermal? Hydroelectric? Nuclear fission?

Ain't no such thing, it's just degrees of damage.

Gene

Well what is truly needed is efficiency. Even the most efficient solar cells are pathetic. The more efficient the energy production and energy storage is, the less the impact on the environment. Nano technology is my personal ray of hope when it comes to building efficient systems. As far as citing one, I don't believe they exist yet. I did see a type of nano aluminum catalyst that could split hydrogen and oxygen from water without the need for additional electricity (http://www.physorg.com/news151856915.html) to do it. If that worked out we could probably say goodbye to all carbon based fuels... It's a small hope though, seeing as information about the manufacture of the aluminum and the exact process are scarce...