My Ultra Racing rear sway bar install

[CtrlAltDefeat]

Well I finally got my rear sway bar from MicroImage (Thanks Garm!) I installed it the same day and heres the pics...

Before install
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/CtrlAltDefeat_album/Ultra%20Racing%20Rear%20Sway%20Bar/th_before.jpg (http://s654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/CtrlAltDefeat_album/Ultra%20Racing%20Rear%20Sway%20Bar/?action=view&current=before.jpg)
Note that the sway bar is sitting on the ground facing the opposite way from when it is installed
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/CtrlAltDefeat_album/Ultra%20Racing%20Rear%20Sway%20Bar/th_before2.jpg (http://s654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/CtrlAltDefeat_album/Ultra%20Racing%20Rear%20Sway%20Bar/?action=view&current=before2.jpg)

Back wheels off ready to remove the nuts
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/CtrlAltDefeat_album/Ultra%20Racing%20Rear%20Sway%20Bar/th_before3.jpg (http://s654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/CtrlAltDefeat_album/Ultra%20Racing%20Rear%20Sway%20Bar/?action=view&current=before3.jpg)
Also note the jack under the shock to relieve the pressure so i could pull the bolt back far enough to put the bar on
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/CtrlAltDefeat_album/Ultra%20Racing%20Rear%20Sway%20Bar/th_installed.jpg (http://s654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/CtrlAltDefeat_album/Ultra%20Racing%20Rear%20Sway%20Bar/?action=view&current=installed.jpg)
Right side installed

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/CtrlAltDefeat_album/Ultra%20Racing%20Rear%20Sway%20Bar/th_installed2.jpg (http://s654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/CtrlAltDefeat_album/Ultra%20Racing%20Rear%20Sway%20Bar/?action=view&current=installed2.jpg)
Finished!


This rear sway bar is really great! The car is a lot less nervous in corners. The back end used to tend to step out on hard turns, especially when hitting bumps. I had to learn not to adjust so much for that behavior. When taking the highway on ramp near my house, I'd take it a little shallow because the back would step out a little on the bumps, well first time or two, I took it almost too shallow! :eek: I'm used to it now, and the back end tracks very well, now. I'm very happy with my purchase! :w00t:

[AlainMikli]

congrats :w00t:

I installed my rear sway 2 days ago, it's really funny

[CtrlAltDefeat]

congrats :w00t:

I installed my rear sway 2 days ago, it's really funny

funny? like weird funny or haha funny? :laugh:

[Sabretooth]

I just installed mine today..My funny story: 19mm Sway Bar Install

Well I kinda confirmed the fact that this part CAN be installed without either jacking up the car, nor removing the tires. Why I did this, I wanted to prove what someone had said previously, and I really didnt feel like searching for the jack arm for my floor jack.

Anyway, all went well, Sway bar installed, and I LOVE IT!
Car feels totally crisp, allowing me to push the corner that little extra bit, or just allow the car to transition a bit smoother throughout the corner. I cant wait to get this baby to the track and start to mingle with the other cars.

[schleppy]

^ agreed. I installed my TRD late last week and it was cake. I didn't jack the car up, didn't remove the tires. Just bolted it right on.

And yes, everyone should get a rear sway, even people who don't care about handling. It makes the car that much better.

[Loren]

This rear sway bar is really great! The car is a lot less nervous in corners. The back end used to tend to step out on hard turns, especially when hitting bumps. I had to learn not to adjust so much for that behavior. When taking the highway on ramp near my house, I'd take it a little shallow because the back would step out a little on the bumps, well first time or two, I took it almost too shallow! :eek: I'm used to it now, and the back end tracks very well, now. I'm very happy with my purchase! :w00t:
Don't like to do this, but the way you're describing this is incorrect, and misinformation spreads like wildfire on the internet, so...

If anything, adding or increasing the size of a rear swaybar (or otherwise increasing rear roll stiffness in any way) will tend to make the back end of the car "step out" (oversteer) more in a turn, not less. Remember, a rear swaybar is transferring weight from the outside rear tire to the inside front, it's giving you LESS grip in the rear... but that's generally not a problem in a FWD car.

Perhaps you're referring to body roll? The car will certainly roll a lot less with more rear roll stiffness, and as you said, it will feel a lot more planted.

BTW, Garm sells two different Ultra Racing bars, a 19mm and a 23mm. Which one is this?

[detroiter]

^^

Would it be incorrect if I stated that when it rains or theres alot of water on the road, I FEEL it even that I have to drive slower around bends on the freeway and such because it FEELS like the rear is going to kick out, as compared to when not having the rear sway bar?

I like the installation pics and description of the poster!

[cleong]

I guess expectations cause the placebo effect.

[justjesus]

Don't like to do this, but the way you're describing this is incorrect, and misinformation spreads like wildfire on the internet, so...


Thanks for keeping us informed of the right info! !:thumbsup:

I still haven't decided which sway bar to go with :iono:

[BLAZINBLUEVITZ]

Thanks for keeping us informed of the right info! !:thumbsup:

I still haven't decided which sway bar to go with :iono:

the bigger 23mm cause others would look up to you.....

[Loren]

^^

Would it be incorrect if I stated that when it rains or theres alot of water on the road, I FEEL it even that I have to drive slower around bends on the freeway and such because it FEELS like the rear is going to kick out, as compared to when not having the rear sway bar?

I like the installation pics and description of the poster!

That is a better description. Without the bar, you FEEL like the rear is going to kick out because of all the body roll back there.

But, in reality, the back end is ACTUALLY more likely to kick out with the rear bar in place. That's an important thing to be aware of. It's one of the downsides of big swaybars. They increase confidence by reducing body roll and making the car FEEL better... but, at the limit, they often have effects that the driver doesn't realize... until it's too late. They make the car less forgiving to big driver errors.

Find a safe place to push the limits of your car and learn what it's going to do! (even if your car is completely stock)

[cali yaris]

^ A pretty good sized empty parking lot will do :wink:

[detroiter]

That is what I was reffering to Loren, that since Ive had my bar installed...it FEELS like the rear is more apt to kick out while going around bends on the freeway during wet and rainy weather. Almost like you can feel it getting to a threshold and you know you have to lay off the speed a little bit or it's gonna come on out on the bends, even though your not really flying or going all that fast down the expressway.

[Loren]

That is what I was reffering to Loren, that since Ive had my bar installed...it FEELS like the rear is more apt to kick out while going around bends on the freeway during wet and rainy weather. Almost like you can feel it getting to a threshold and you know you have to lay off the speed a little bit or it's gonna come on out on the bends, even though your not really flying or going all that fast down the expressway.

YES! Now you're talking sense. You really ARE at the cusp of losing the back end when you push it on those wet sweeping turns. Slowing down there is good... but... don't abruptly lift off the gas, and don't even think about touching the brake in that situation. Shift too much weight forward off of the rear tires that are already barely gripping and around you go!

[detroiter]

I'm used to winter driving, the ice and snow, etc so I've learned the best thing to not hit the brakes or anything else, just lay off the accelerator and let it coast down on it's own instead of trying to make it stop.

By the way, love that BRG car of yours!

[WolfWings]

[QUOTE]
If anything, adding or increasing the size of a rear swaybar (or otherwise increasing rear roll stiffness in any way) will tend to make the back end of the car "step out" (oversteer) more in a turn, not less. Remember, a rear swaybar is transferring weight from the outside rear tire to the inside front, it's giving you LESS grip in the rear... but that's generally not a problem in a FWD car.

Perhaps you're referring to body roll? The car will certainly roll a lot less with more rear roll stiffness, and as you said, it will feel a lot more planted.
[QUOTE]

I think he means he used to specifically push it into understeer on the on-ramp, and would aim 'too shallow' to compensate. He has enough grip now the car's going where he aimed, which was still 'too shallow' which was now a problem.

[CtrlAltDefeat]

Don't like to do this, but the way you're describing this is incorrect, and misinformation spreads like wildfire on the internet, so...

If anything, adding or increasing the size of a rear swaybar (or otherwise increasing rear roll stiffness in any way) will tend to make the back end of the car "step out" (oversteer) more in a turn, not less. Remember, a rear swaybar is transferring weight from the outside rear tire to the inside front, it's giving you LESS grip in the rear... but that's generally not a problem in a FWD car.

Perhaps you're referring to body roll? The car will certainly roll a lot less with more rear roll stiffness, and as you said, it will feel a lot more planted.

BTW, Garm sells two different Ultra Racing bars, a 19mm and a 23mm. Which one is this?

Well funny enough when I ordered a month and 1/2 ago only the 19mm was available so that's what I got. As far as the whole stepping out issue, I am big proponent of preventing misinformation, so I understand why you posted this. I'm not sure how a rear sway bar transfers weight to the inside front wheel, but I'm just saying how it feels to me. The back end used to hop around every time there was a bump or dip in the pavement. The back end has calmed down, now that I have my sway bar on. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I haven't pushed it enough to tell the true difference before and after. It seems to me, that it transfers force from the outside rear wheel to the inside rear wheel, allowing less body roll and keeping both rear wheels more firmly planted.

Now I'm not an expert, nor do I claim to be, so I would like to know if/how I'm wrong. I'm not too proud to believe I'm always right, so please let me know if I am in error. :biggrin:

[Loren]

Read the thread I started about the 23mm bar, especially the first post. It has a pretty good explanation of how the rear bar works. It is admittedly counter-intuitive if you're not well-versed in the black art of suspension tuning.

[regal]

A rear sway bar makes the rear push the car into under steer less, I think this is what the OP is trying to describe.

[justjesus]

Read the thread I started about the 23mm bar, especially the first post. It has a pretty good explanation of how the rear bar works. It is admittedly counter-intuitive if you're not well-versed in the black art of suspension tuning.

I guess I got some reading to do!

[whoguy]

Hi all,

I must add to this discussion a little bit if I may.... With my Whiteline 22mm rear bar I have to be really careful in the rain as the car is prone to oversteer around sharp corners.... This is not a problem for me as I don't like taking corners in the rain especially if a power pole is right there.

For dry conditions it is excellent. What Loren says is on the money as always... I think a sway bar should be mandatory on a Yaris as it is very understeery from the factory.

[TitaniumBarbell]

Which bar must have more priority? Front Strut Bar or Rear Sway Bar?

[Sabretooth]

Rear first...the choice is yours of the TRD/Ultra Racing 19mm, or UR 23mm bar. I purchased the 19mm, and it seems just right for me, the case could be different to someone who has a different shock/spring/wheel/tire setup than mine.

The Yaris really doesnt even need a front sway bar, unless you have done every measure to make the car oversteer, or if the car naturally wants to oversteer (which shouldnt happen).

[schleppy]

Which bar must have more priority? Front Strut Bar or Rear Sway Bar?

Rear sway, without a doubt. Some people (and I'm one of them) feel that a front strut bar doesn't do enough to justify the cost. The rear sway bar you will feel as soon as you turn the wheel.

[scape]

i'd also warn against any more weight up front! even if it's just a few pounds

[cali yaris]

^ The Yaris has a stock front sway bar. The aftermarket bar won't add much weight.

Further, most of the discussions about "oversteer" and "understeer" pertain to the limits of traction. Within those limits, the benefit of less roll is a valid handling improvement to make with the car.

There are two different conversations to have here -- how the car handles in normal to "spirited" driving (well within the limits of traction), and conditions when racing at the edge. Whether the tail or the head of car loses traction first is part of the second conversation, not the first.

[Loren]

There is a third aspect to consider. Even if you don't drive in a "spirited" fashion and never intentionally explore the limits of your car, how it will behave in an emergency situation is something that should not be overlooked.

To say that "it doesn't matter if the car oversteers or understeers because I never drive it that hard" is naive at best.

[CtrlAltDefeat]

Even without "spirited driving" it seems to make a lot of difference in everyday driving to me...

[TitaniumBarbell]

Rear first...the choice is yours of the TRD/Ultra Racing 19mm, or UR 23mm bar. I purchased the 19mm, and it seems just right for me, the case could be different to someone who has a different shock/spring/wheel/tire setup than mine.

The Yaris really doesnt even need a front sway bar, unless you have done every measure to make the car oversteer, or if the car naturally wants to oversteer (which shouldnt happen).

I ordered TRD Sway Bar Today with TRDSparks! :thumbsup:

[Sandwash]

I've had my Yaris for only 2 weeks now and am considering getting rear sway bar. Very much appreciate reading of pro and con opinions although as can be expected am no less (or more) certain as to sway bar's net effectiveness. Question arises as to relative inexpense of sway bars, especially if produced in mass numbers, and why it is Toyota wouldn't include the sway bar as stock item if it in sum total better overall handling may be realized?

[cali yaris]

I can't tell if you mean the front or rear sway bar. I don't know of any cons to the REAR bar, but there is discussion on both sides for the FRONT bar. Toyota didn't include a rear bar to keep the cost of the car down, and based on their assessment of how most customers will drive (for economy).

Titanium, why did you pay more for TRD? :frown:

[Loren]

I've had my Yaris for only 2 weeks now and am considering getting rear sway bar. Very much appreciate reading of pro and con opinions although as can be expected am no less (or more) certain as to sway bar's net effectiveness. Question arises as to relative inexpense of sway bars, especially if produced in mass numbers, and why it is Toyota wouldn't include the sway bar as stock item if it in sum total better overall handling may be realized?

Automotive design and engineering is all about compromises. The general public, especially the "commuter car" market, wants a car that is comfortable and handles predictably. Basically, they want an appliance. A couch that they can drive to work.

For these reasons, cars like the Yaris are designed with fairly soft suspension that handles most road conditions "comfortably" and the car is designed to handle predictably and safely. Predictable and safe handling for the average idiot driver means understeer.

Enter the rear swaybar. A rear swaybar's purpose is to increase rear roll stiffness. Increasing rear roll stiffness has a lot of effects, but the most obvious is a reduction in body roll and an improvement in steering response, which the "performance-minded" driver likes... but the general public might actually prefer the car to be less "twitchy" and prefer a little body roll that allows the suspension to lean in a turn instead of making THEM lean in a turn.

Increasing rear roll stiffness also changes the handling bias of the car and makes it less prone to understeer, or more prone to oversteer. The stiffer the rear of the car is made, the more likely it is to oversteer in an emergency maneuver. Toyota doesn't want the liability of putting the average idiot in a car that could oversteer unexpectedly, so they design their cars to understeer predictably.

Now, if Toyota wanted the rear roll stiffness to be greater on the Yaris... they wouldn't have fit a swaybar to it, anyway. It adds weight, complexity and expense, things that are considered greatly in the design of such a car. Even if they used the TRD/Ultra Racing design (a beam axle reinforcement rather than a true anti-sway bar), it would still add at least 7 parts to the car, one of them being a bar that requires complex forming and welding and heat-treating, the others being a pair of bolts, nuts and washers. (if they put a REAL swaybar on the car, the part count would be at least 3 times as many with brackets, end links, bushings, etc.) No, if Toyota wanted to add more stiffness to the back of the Yaris, they would simply have designed a stiffer beam axle assembly that allowed less twist or they would have fitted stiffer rear springs... either of which would create a compromise to the level of comfort that the car was designed for.

Um... what was the question again?

[Sandwash]

Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful response. You're right, most people want that couch they can drive to work so Toyota would not be so compelled; and, thinking about it you're correct - there would be other engineered approaches a manufacturer would take.
And, do you have a rear sway bar and would you hesitate in recommending one for whatever reason? Again, thanks--

[Loren]

This has all been covered before, but if you feel the need to tame some of the body roll and understeer of the Yaris, and improve steering response a bit, I would absolutely recommend adding a rear swaybar. My only caveat would be (maybe) to avoid going with a really large "competition-grade" bar if you're not a serious performance-minded driver with appropriate skills. Read my thread on the 23mm bar for more info.

[Twizzstyle]

I just installed a 23mm Ultra Racing bar, and although the install was a piece of cake, didn't remove the wheels or anything, my only beef with the bar is the bolts that it came with were too large for the holes on the suspension beam. The only way they would fit is if I drilled the holes out, which would be near impossible without taking off the whole rear brake assembly.

Luckily I've got a huge random assortment of nuts/bolts and found some bolts that fit perfectly. Not sure if the wrong bolts were sent with my bar or what, but they were not even close to fitting.

First impression of the bar is great, car is much flatter, but unfortunately the stock tires are so damn soft they just squish around. I'll be running the Yaris at autox next weekend (normally I race a 350hp subaru, but it has a fuel leak so I'm bringing out the Yaris for the first time) so I'll see how it does there.

[regal]

My impression of the TRD rear sway bar is that it doesn't help enough, the car still has pretty severe understeer even with the TRD springs. We really need stiffer rear springs and adjustable shocks.

[Twizzstyle]

I just installed a 23mm Ultra Racing bar, and although the install was a piece of cake, didn't remove the wheels or anything, my only beef with the bar is the bolts that it came with were too large for the holes on the suspension beam. The only way they would fit is if I drilled the holes out, which would be near impossible without taking off the whole rear brake assembly.

So I didn't bother emailing MicroImage about the big bolts, cause I got it done with bolts I had... but I'm assuming he saw my post, because 2 days ago I got an envelope in the mail with two new bolts!

That's some great customer service!!! Thanks!!! :biggrin:

[cali yaris]

You're welcome, we have to change those out on every bar from that shipment. I'm sorry I had to send them along afterwards!

oh, and let us know how Auto X goes with the Yaris!

[Twizzstyle]

You're welcome, we have to change those out on every bar from that shipment. I'm sorry I had to send them along afterwards!

oh, and let us know how Auto X goes with the Yaris!

No worries, and thanks again. The bolts I put on temporarily are pretty old and nasty, this will save me a trip to the hardware store :)

I'll post on here how the car does, on the street it feels excellent so far (ignoring the soft crap tires)

[Twizzstyle]

So after a good day of autox (probably 15 runs?) I can say this bar is awesome. The car is terribly slow, painfully slow in fact (but my subaru I usually race is ~350hp, so of course the yaris is going to feel slow).

The handling on the RE92's is pretty terrible, BUT with the new bar the throttle lift oversteer is sooo GOOD! I wasn't trying to drive the course well (it was an untimed fun run event) but just get the car sideways as much as I could. You don't even need to have much speed, just a little flick and off the throttle, and its completely sideways, another flick and blip of the throttle and its tossed the other way. It is SO tossable, but it goes exactly where I want it and not a bit further. If one didn't know what they were doing, you could spin it easily (a good thing if you're an experienced driver :) )

[cali yaris]

Good to hear!

[arunto]

installed my 23mm UR swaybar. fitment was great and it's hands down the best handling mod to do. even with the crappy OEM tires you can have the rear end step out with some lift throttle oversteer. very predictable. can't wait to do some auto-x.

[sickpuppy1]

With the 19mm it just feels planted, and stays much flatter than stock. I could see where tossing the back end out would come in handy, but for me, the predictability of the control without the excessive body roll is king.

[atomsareenough]

I just got my Yaris a week ago and I am seriously considering getting a UR sway bar from Garm... I'm not sure whether it's worth it to shell out the extra $25 for the 23mm one or just get the 19mm one. Also, I want to be a little more certain that it's not going to harm the car's suspension or anything. Other than perhaps letting you drive a little more aggressively, it's not going to put extra pressure on the car beyond the design tolerances, right?

[CtrlAltDefeat]

I just got my Yaris a week ago and I am seriously considering getting a UR sway bar from Garm... I'm not sure whether it's worth it to shell out the extra $25 for the 23mm one or just get the 19mm one. Also, I want to be a little more certain that it's not going to harm the car's suspension or anything. Other than perhaps letting you drive a little more aggressively, it's not going to put extra pressure on the car beyond the design tolerances, right?

no, it just transfers forces around the car... there's great info on what it does here (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16743) and further up in this thread... as far as it being worth it, I bought mine back when the 19mm one was the only one available, and I've regretted it since...

[atomsareenough]

Thanks for the link to the other thread, CtrlAltDefeat.... Looking it over, it makes me think that a 19mm bar is probably the better choice. I don't do any autocross or anything like that, I just use the car as a DD/commute vehicle for the most part, and really my main issue is reducing wind-related wandering and body roll around corners, and making the car a little bit more fun to drive. I don't drive all that aggressively for the most part.

According to what Loren and others said, it sounds like the 23mm bar actually makes the car somewhat harder to turn in some ways and can actually be dangerous in the way it handles in extreme situations if you're not expecting it or used to it, because it can oversteer when you're not expecting it to. So, based on that thread it sounds like the 19mm should be more than adequate for my purposes. I don't have any other suspension mods or any aftermarket shocks or anything...

Does that line of reasoning make sense?

[CtrlAltDefeat]

sure it makes sense... also maybe a mild drop with some lowering springs. not too expensive, and helps a lot with stability in cross winds.

[RedRide]

Thanks for the link to the other thread, CtrlAltDefeat.... Looking it over, it makes me think that a 19mm bar is probably the better choice. I don't do any autocross or anything like that, I just use the car as a DD/commute vehicle for the most part, and really my main issue is reducing wind-related wandering and body roll around corners, and making the car a little bit more fun to drive. I don't drive all that aggressively for the most part.

According to what Loren and others said, it sounds like the 23mm bar actually makes the car somewhat harder to turn in some ways and can actually be dangerous in the way it handles in extreme situations if you're not expecting it or used to it, because it can oversteer when you're not expecting it to. So, based on that thread it sounds like the 19mm should be more than adequate for my purposes. I don't have any other suspension mods or any aftermarket shocks or anything...


Does that line of reasoning make sense?

I also use my Yaris for a DD/commute car and I have a 23mm bar.
I really like it an I have experienced no bad effects from having it.
It makes commuting safer and more secure feeling a highway speeds.

Having said that, a 19mm bar is certianally much better than none at all and you are shure to like it. :smile:

[darkmoon87]

UR 23mm swaybar the BEST mod i've done on my car, hands down.

[Midnight Drifter]

That is a better description. Without the bar, you FEEL like the rear is going to kick out because of all the body roll back there.

But, in reality, the back end is ACTUALLY more likely to kick out with the rear bar in place. That's an important thing to be aware of. It's one of the downsides of big swaybars. They increase confidence by reducing body roll and making the car FEEL better... but, at the limit, they often have effects that the driver doesn't realize... until it's too late. They make the car less forgiving to big driver errors.

Find a safe place to push the limits of your car and learn what it's going to do! (even if your car is completely stock)

None of it even matters if he doesn't input the 'Konami Code' before clutching into first gear and triggers the magical ASM test mode warning light anyways; the nannie pulls throttle and adds braking long before he can find himself facing backwards.

That said, I want my ass to step out more, so looks like the 23mm will be the one for me. After almost getting blown off the road in a windstorm last friday on I-95 heading back up from Georgia, I can confidently mark down a sway bar as a 'safety feature'. :eyebulge: