Oh oh, ticket!

[Lafiro]

So I was driving on the northern state parkway, going around a corner, left lane, range rover slowed down fast, i instead put gas to go around and not cut off anyone in the middle lane, but to my bad luck, there is a state trooper.

Pulls me over, tells me I was doing 95mph, I said no way. I had my cruise control set to 65, and I only paniced when the car infront stopped so I went around instead of slamming my brakes.

He came back and told me, "I didn't give you a ticket for speeding, but I gave you a ticket for Disobeying a traffic control device."

I asked what that was he didn't answer my question and just told me to go to court if I wanted too.

So this was issued on Sunday morning. Its Tuesday morning now, so If I plead not guilty to this I have to mail it today.

So what do I do? And should I pay the $180 fine with 2 points or do not guilty? Thanks..

[Loren]

What was the speed limit?

Why did the Range Rover slow down?

My guess is that the cop knew exactly how fast you were going, but threw out 95 just to see what you'd admit to. And he probably did you a favor by not writing you a ticket for speeding, but instead writing you a less expensive ticket. I've heard this from cops before... try to give a kid a break, but the kid just doesn't grasp the concept.

[detroiter]

Never just "give" it to them. Always go talk to the consulate at the courthouse and explain what happened, if you have a clean record then you for sure tell him that and try to work out something like you'll pay the money but you just want to keep your record clean with no points. Unless you have a wild record, nine out of ten times they will be willing to work something out. Worst that happens in the end is you end up paying what they tried getting you to pay anyways.

[Lafiro]

I just don't know how out of all the cars and volume he knew I was doing 95mph? The speed limit is like 55 or 60, I honestly don'y know on that highway, yet again Im on every single highway during a 1 week span where I live so I don't memorize anything, I just follow the flow of traffic or go a tad bit faster but not to make myself stand out.

The range rover slowed down probably because it was speeding? And who knows if it had a radar detector? I was just the unlucky one to hit the gas to go around rather then slam my brakes and pray to god I wasn't hit from the back, you know what I mean?

And if he dropped the speeding to even to like 80, I would only pay $85 ticket and maybe no points? Maybe a few? Now this is 2 points and $180....

Any more suggestions before I guess I will do Not Guilty and just go in anyway.

[Darb]

The "Traffic Device" in this case is probably the speed limit sign.

[Lafiro]

So, fight it then? Need to put this in the mail within the next hour.

[Loren]

So, the speed limit was probably 55... you had the cruise locked at 10 over AND you sped up... so he clocked you at 70ish.

Just pay the fine.

Sure, you could fight it... but it is worth all the hassle and time? Take your lumps and learn from it.

[hatchbackkid82]

Do not mail it in with payment, that's admitting guilt and you'll defintiely get the points. WEll at least that's how it is in MD. Take it to court, you may end up paying the fine, but hopefully you get the points dropped

[marcus]

tell the judge that the cop told you to go to court to find out what that mean..just to get the cop is trouble for being sarcastic ..cop should be liable to explain what you are getting charge for...

[Lafiro]

Ha thats very true. He didn't tell me anything, except the name of the law I supposedly broke, but then told me to just go fight it in court. SO I guess thats true, that would get the cop in trouble.

And honestly, I dont care about the fine, I just don't want the points! And my record is clean!

I mailed it in as not guilty. I work at night and go to school at night, so It does not make a difference to me if I have to go in. At least I won't be sitting at home doing nothing.
Thanks though for the comments. And anything else I can get from this I will learn/use to my advantage.

And yes I do learn from my mistakes.

[BailOut]

If you had to take evasive maneuvers in order to keep from hitting the rear of the Range Rover then you were following too closely for the speed you were at. Either that or you were distracted and reacted too slowly. Anything that happened after that point is moot as the initial issue was yours.

I'm glad everyone came out of it without injury but that does not change the fact that you created a dangerous situation not only for yourself but for those around you. Do not fight the ticket. Realize that the penalty could have been much worse and that you've already been given a break, take responsibility for your actions, learn from it and move on.

Your State offers a "Driver Improvement Course" for $40. This would be a good time for you to take advantage of it.

[TLyttle]

I agree! Never, ever pass someone who suddenly slows down for no "apparent" reason: there is ALWAYS a reason! One thing that carried over from my racing days was being second is always easier than being first. Tailgating always leads to trouble; don't do it.

Eat the fine, learn the lesson.

[Lafiro]

Exactly. Thank you.

Im also not an idiot everyone, if I know I was guilty, I would have NEVER posted this.
But you are absolutely right, he did tell me to take it to court and I guess its true he didn't know what to do so he just wroute any ticket he could. This is without proof as well, just said on the ticket, from his direct observance. But He observed what? He said speeding at 95mph, but he drops it and says disobeyed a traffic control device but couldnt explain to me what it was, and just to go to court if I wanted?

So obviously he didnt have anything better to do or so but he now wasted me time.

So now let me return the favor.

[33OH]

At highway speeds, all it takes is for the car in front of you to have better brakes/tires and you'll be into their bumper. (same with the car behind you and your back bumper.)

If everything you're saying is true Lafiro, I would fight it.

[SaerinRhoe]

I would fight it. A couple of months before I bought my Yaris I received two tickets from a county constable for something similar to this.

I was on a 2 lane residential road and the last car in a line of about 4-5 cars. There's only 1 lane each direction but the lane is extra wide and they have "No Passing" signs and the posted Speed Limit is 35mph.

I pulled over to the right side of the lane to turn right and the car in front of me did the same thing at the last minute. My options were slam on the brakes and hope I didn't plow them or swerve to the left and not hit them. I swerved left and the lane was wide enough that I didn't have to worry about on-comming traffice but I was forced to take the next turn.

I turned right and went on my way and got another 3-4 blocks when the constable came flying up behind me with lights and sirens going. I pulled over and he wrote me two tickets, one for following too close and the other for not signaling my turn.

I went to court on it and got 1 dropped and the other deferred with payment so it won't show up on my record as long as I don't get another ticket within 6 months, which is up by now. The reason that I fought the tickets is that the Constable was parked in a school parking lot 4-5 blocks behind me chatting on his phone. All he saw was me making the swerve left and it's my opinion that he simply made an assumption as to what happened.

I'd take any ticket to court to see if there's a way to reduce or eliminate it. If the state is willing to help you then I'd go for it. Just be on your best behavior if you do go to court and I think it will work out well for you.

And after you get the ticket's dropped then you can get the front of your car painted with Radar Absorbing Material and skim right past the cops without giving a return to their radar guns.

Drive safe,

S.R.

[tomato]

I'd fight a ticket if there was a good reason why I had to break the rule. On the other hand, if you start your argument by "I was locked at 65MPH" and it turns out it was a 55 MPH zone, you're not gonna get much sympathy. :iono:

[kustom play]

i never admited guilt in court and have got out of points

in all honesty, there only after your money, they could really care less

worst off tell them you'll pay 200 and no points and they will go for it

economy is bad, there going after every dollar they can

[Lafiro]

Ok, I will say just that to the judge or whoever. I will act dumb, but I will be respectful and just answer when spoken too. I guess I should also go in with slacks and a solid button down shirt? Don't mind. But I don't need this garbage on my record you know.

[nemelek]

The city that I live has an automatic plea bargain for offenders with few or no points on their license. From the information I gathered you would really be due a 4 point ticket. By mailing it in you would save your self 2 points. Still go to court. The deal usually is good until trial. If you fight the ticket with a judge or jury, you might really be fighting a 4 point ticket and then it is all or nothing.

[Darb]

tell the judge that the cop told you to go to court to find out what that mean..just to get the cop is trouble for being sarcastic ..cop should be liable to explain what you are getting charge for...

The court typically will take a cop's word over yours. Also, cops aren't there to interpret the law, just to enforce it.

get yourself nice dress pants, tie and a nice shirt, make yourself look like an outstanding member of society and the judge will have a tendency to take you more seriously.

+1, tie ftw.

Also, if you get a lawyer (or not, if you're savvy enough), you can speak with the prosecutor immediately prior to the the cases starting and ask what they are charging you on, he may be willing to lower the charge again if you agree to probationary driving for 3 months or whatever.

[kustom play]

i had a few times where the judge asked the officer how i acted during the traffic stop

the offcer said i was very nice about the whole thing and the judge told me no points but i had to pay the full ticket, like 220 or something like that

so acting respectful during the stop can also have benifits

[GeneW]

So I was driving on the northern state parkway, going around a corner, left lane, range rover slowed down fast, i instead put gas to go around and not cut off anyone in the middle lane, but to my bad luck, there is a state trooper.

Very bad idea to accelerate into a blind curve. You're lucky that the Range Rover wasn't braking because they'd come up on an accident.

As far as the ticket - consult a lawyer or pay the ticket. State laws vary wildly with regard to case law and the way that local magistrates interpret laws. Taking legal advice from people who do not live in your state and lack professional knowledge of local laws is worse than useless.

Gene

[GeneW]

Fight it and if the cop does not show up the judge should dismiss the charge. If you do fight it and lose you will pay the fine get the points penalty and also have to pay court cost. I have no idea what they are but prob around 100 dollars.

This is about the only sensible "Do it yourself" idea I'd go with - except that some police officers will make it their business to show up. At least in Pennsylvania PA State Troopers are given informal quotas and will defend their catches in Court.

Tickets can be "amended", at least in Pennsylvania. This means that the Police officer can decide that they have to re-issue the ticket based upon "pertinent" information, such as skid marks, witness testimony and so on.

Suddenly trivial fines can become big deals.

Please - most Attorneys will charge a small fee for an initial consult. Take a little time off of work, put your head together with a professional and see what he or she thinks. Might be the cheapest fifty to one hundred bucks you'll pay this year.

Gene

[Lafiro]

I honestly have no problem talking to anyone, and I will do this myself.

I don't care if at the end I owe money, because I am only taking this to court to see if the points will be removed.

I will not self incriminate myself. And I will act mature and talk slowly. I was also very polite to the officer. Goodmorning this and that. So lets see what happens I guess?

And does the officer really have to be there in court? I mean there are so few state troopers on the road, it would suck to have one pulled from service just to stand in court with me(against me).

[Shroomster]

Camell can you show me where it says the case is thrown out because the officer doesn't show up?

the ticket acts as the officer's statement of the event, it's irrelevant whether the officer appears in court or not, mainly for the reasons of being a character and eye witness only.

just questioning this, as it varies state to state and I've read no where in any state's court room procedures (regarding traffic infractions) that the issuing officer needs to be present.

[eric81]

Everyone who said "Eat the fine" should mail this guy $10. What a bunch of jerks! If you take it to court, and the cop doesn't show, you win. If you take it to court and he DOES show, there is a chance you can still explain to judge and be free. I'd put it at less than 20% you get busted. And I put it at less than 5% the points stick. I have several tickets now, and not a single one has stuck. I know it's too late now, but never ever ever pay the fine unless it is for 20 over or better, and there was just you and the cop. Even then, find a lawyer and seek counsel. That is always free. They might be able to get a supena (sp?) for the radar gun, the tuning fork, the cops car, his radio, ...EVERYTHING! You'd be amazed at the amount of tickets that get thrown out for one reason or another.

[eric81]

Camell can you show me where it says the case is thrown out because the officer doesn't show up?

the ticket acts as the officer's statement of the event, it's irrelevant whether the officer appears in court or not, mainly for the reasons of being a character and eye witness only.

just questioning this, as it varies state to state and I've read no where in any state's court room procedures (regarding traffic infractions) that the issuing officer needs to be present.

In the great state of Texas AND the state of Washington, the officer has to be there if you fight the ticket, or it is dismissed. That is part of the civil law to protect the innocent from being judged wrong. It happened to me when I first got my first car (10 years ago). I was in a minor accident, and was ticketed for a non-moving violation. Officer didn't show, and they dismissed the ticket. I was dumb enough to ask the judge why, and he explained that if the officer isn't there to defend the ticket, himself, and his jurisdiction, it is automatically thrown out.

[eric81]

Obama is closing Guantanamo bay, so that one is now out of the loop. Wonder what they are going to do with all that land? Presidential island, I guess.

[Shroomster]

yeah yeah I know it's not super reliable like the actual law books but I'll work on getting that sourced....

TRAFFIC CITATION MYTHS (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourCar/8TopTrafficTicketMyths.aspx?page=all)

[Altitude]

You can always ask the judge for leniency regarding the points. In most cases - with a good driving record - they will drop the points if you pay the fee. It sounds like you'll probably get off on this one (points wise) given the uncertainty of the situation. Bring your check book!

[twowheels]

get yourself nice dress pants, tie and a nice shirt, make yourself look like an outstanding member of society and the judge will have a tendency to take you more seriously.

I used to be a really bad driver. Never had accidents, but was always pushing the limits. Now people complain that I drive too conservatively, imagine that. :-)

Anyhow, about 17 years ago I'd gotten a ticket for 55 in a 35. Some guys had been harassing me on the freeway and were cutting me off and whatnot. When I got off the freeway they were behind me at the light and I decided to gun it to get away from them, right into the speed trap.

I showed up at the court on time, but while waiting I saw the sign that said that if you were wearing shorts they'd kick you out. Uh oh! So I rushed home... and rushed back, worried that I'd be late. When I was pulling into the parking lot I hit the curb cut fast and my back wheels bounced off the ground. There were two men standing outside chatting, one in a sheriff's uniform -- he chewed me out like you wouldn't believe, threatening to take away my license, etc, but didn't do anything. When I got into the court I saw those two men again, the judge and the bailiff. I felt like I could die. When it was my turn I pled guilty "with an explanation". The judge looked at my paperwork and said "well, you have a clean record so far, so I'll let you off w/ just traffic school"... I couldn't believe it!

[KCALB SIRAY]

I honestly have no problem talking to anyone, and I will do this myself.

I don't care if at the end I owe money, because I am only taking this to court to see if the points will be removed.

I will not self incriminate myself. And I will act mature and talk slowly. I was also very polite to the officer. Goodmorning this and that. So lets see what happens I guess?

And does the officer really have to be there in court? I mean there are so few state troopers on the road, it would suck to have one pulled from service just to stand in court with me(against me).

If you have not pre-paid by the deadline, he will be in court unless he is called for other services. In the event he does not show, you will have the charges dropped most likely. Most state troopers use a Ladar type device. It uses a laser tracking system that spreads a beam about 4 feet wide so he/she can easily pin point your car out of several if needed from a great distance and while moving. Most are able to print a time slip, much like a receipt showing the distance and speed.

[KCALB SIRAY]

That printed receipt of the speed, distance and time cannot solely be used against you because this is a criminal proceeding and not a civil. You have the right to confront and cross examine your accuser regardless of how minor or major the offense. Using a sheet of paper no matter if it is official and documented is technically hearsay if the officer has not been cross examined or given a statement in front of a judge after being sworn in. If the cop died before the court date I don't know what would happen, they may be able to use the document in those circumstances but not sure.

The judge can arrange for cross examination of the accuser at an earlier date at their convenience but they still have to be present to be cross examined as well as your council and a judge, this testimony must be sworn. What do you think the judge would do if you did not show up? You would be found guilty or have a warrant issued for your arrest, just as if the officer does not show up you will more than likely have the case dismissed.

Now the judge can certainly move the court date to another date and time if he chooses, this is well within his power, but the officer is wasting the courts time by not showing up.

LADAR is also know as LIDAR.

you my friend are 100% correct on a few things. The only thing he has to do if he proceeds to confront is to raise a question of doubt and he's good to go. It won't be hearsay as he will be giving the statement of his findings. Key word there is findings. That receipt is not the sole piece of info that will be presented, as the officers sworn testimony will be presented as well a signed equipment inspection sheet explaining when the instrument was serviced/checked etc. So far our OP has his word, and that's about it and from what he said, he was above the speed limit. he could however go get the calibration test done, but it will most likely have to be off greater than 3mph. The good thing here is there was no set speed offense, its a failure to comply. He might be able to walk out of the court by just paying the court cost and no points. He has to play his cards right though

[Shroomster]

waiting for a response from OCPD or OCSO....neither one is too swft on the uptake....and for the record I'm not arguing with ya camell :)

[bxrich]

oh no look new yorkers there out to get us for the money on the wednesday they give me 6 tickets yea 6 wtf 5 for tinted windows and one for muffler wtf dam so i called my friend in the force to what she can do but with my luck the officer who give them to me had to leave town for familiy issues.wtf dam that sucks.so she said to be very careful and go to court.and i have a pba card.

[Shroomster]

got a response back from OCPD:

If the deputy had rec’d a subpoena on this case he should attend, but sometimes the deputy has conflicting schedules and ask for the hearing to be reset. It is up to the judge as to what happens with the case if the deputy does not attend.

[JBIZZ]

If you want to get your tax dollars worth, get a lawyer and plead not guilty. Its what the systems for, even if you are guilty. It creates more jobs too.

[Lafiro]

Ok, and who pays for the lawyer? And where would I find one?

And I just got the letter stating"
....
You have been scheduled to appear for a CONFERENCE on the summonses listed below on 7/29/09 at 06:00pm.
....
Failed to obey traffic control device. $180

Pay this amount to avoid court appearance. $180
Pay in full... prior to the court date indicated to cancel the court appearance.

Thats most of it. Now if it told me, mail in the money and no points, obviously I would do so, but not in this case.

[PhilD424]

http://www.valentine1.com/ all problems solved.