Let's get Turbo'ed!!!

[fuji]

I had a brief conversation with Gwasabi about turbos. It seem like making a basic non-intercooled turbo with 6 pounds or less of boost would be pretty easy to make.

My objective is looking for a reasonably priced way of making an increase in power which will really make a difference.

I am sure if we all put out heads together we can make a really basic kit with not too much cost. Who would be interested in this???

[Tamago]

how many threads are there about low cost turbo kits already?

[mrbond]

^ many many many many.
fuji, if you want to become a vendor for a low-cost, low-boost turbo kit, I'm sure people would be interested.

[PETERPOOP]

fuji, just talk to evan,and not gwasabi. this topic has been gone over 100x in the FI section.

[cali yaris]

Welcome to Hawaii, Tamago and mrbond.. LOL

GT25 turbo with oil and water lines, internal 6 psi wastegate
turbo exhaust mani
downpipe fit to your stock exhaust or custom exhaust (recommended)
piping fabricated as needed.
BOV
possible larger injectors (1ZZ or Scion tC)
gauges if you care about your motor

Done...you can close the thread now. LOL j/k but they are right about the hundred threads about this.

[gwasabi]

Yea, don't ask me about it because I know nothing about cars while Mr Poop over there is the overwhelming Genius who spends 3k on a supercharger making what? 30 hp when he could of done exactly what Brian is suggesting and get double. He's right though. Talk to devin, He knows his stuff.


as far as cheap go, Cali Yaris's setup suggested is probably the cheapest way to go.

Find akid who crashed his SR buy his turbo for like 50 bucks. get the manifold and downpipe from turbo toyota's or custome make one. get some intake piping done, BOV and 2zz injectors.

You probably wont have to get management at a low leel boost but I would recommend it either way.

All in all garanteed cost less than that overpriced crap supercharger setup from blitz.

Superchargers are cool and all but seriously? 3k for 30hp..... not a smart investment on this car.


HAwaii is getting kinda crowded, didn't know so much people lived in Hawaii on this forum lol.

[Tamago]

Welcome to Hawaii, Tamago and mrbond.. LOL

GT25 turbo with oil and water lines, internal 6 psi wastegate
turbo exhaust mani
downpipe fit to your stock exhaust or custom exhaust (recommended)
piping fabricated as needed.
BOV
possible larger injectors (1ZZ or Scion tC)
gauges if you care about your motor

Done...you can close the thread now. LOL j/k but they are right about the hundred threads about this.

welcome to hawaii yourself, Garm!

[cali yaris]

All in all garanteed cost less than that overpriced crap supercharger setup from blitz.
Superchargers are cool and all but seriously? 3k for 30hp..... not a smart investment on this car.

I will disagree, most boost applications I have tried have been about $100 per whp. I know there are cheaper ways to do it -- that's not the point I'm trying to make.

[fuji]

Holy crap - let's all play nice here - remember aloha spirit!

I recognize the name Devin, is that his name on the forum? Thanks for the help Gwasabi, it looks like this would be do-able.

Now I have heard of the magical no. 6 pounds of pressure but what about using a bit less like 4 or 5? Could this a potentially less problematic amount of boost? My goal is not to have to mess with the engine internals.

Any help with good local resouces for parts or reliable online sources would be greatly appreciated.

Anyone else on the island want to build one with me? We could even possibliy build two at the same time. I have a nice big 4 car garage we can use!

[fuji]

Cali Yaris,

Could you please list the gauges you would recommend?

[gwasabi]

I would just buy the turbotoyota log manifold. Find a salvaged or crashed SR20 turbo (garrett t25) and build on top of that. The rest like piping and stuff let me know cause I got some people who can do it.

I would agree 4 to 6 is ok without building the motor.

And sorry Garm no offense and I respect your input but Hawaii market for parts is a little different than mainland so price wise I would have to say for that supercharger, it's far from the best deal.

Turbo manifold = 600
Garrett t25 off SR = 100
custom intake piping = 200
BOV = 200 - 400
injectors = 50
misc parts = 200

1500 bucks for the kit I suggest. LOT OF TIME. no management w/ super low boost.
That would be what I would estimate.

or you can dish out about 3k for a Greddy XB turbo kit and a little fabrication and bam! your good to go. Second fastest yaris after devin kicking peter to 3rd lol


And the reason why i bash on the blitz supercharger is because
1: its ugly. not my taste
2: it's overpriced for the amount of power your getting
3: peterpoop has it

done

[Taiyaki]

Oh man this thread is going to be good! haha
im loving it

[battleversiontc]

boost, afr wideband, i run oil temp and oil pressure as well and how much do you want to spend on building one?

[battleversiontc]

i agree with garm on this one:thumbup:
I will disagree, most boost applications I have tried have been about $100 per whp. I know there are cheaper ways to do it -- that's not the point I'm trying to make.

[cali yaris]

^ woo hoo!

And the reason why i bash on the blitz supercharger is because
1: its ugly. not my taste
2: it's overpriced for the amount of power your getting
3: peterpoop has it


Still not reason to call it crap, which it is not. It serves a particular purpose in the market, and it does it well.

[cali yaris]

My Top Four: boost, air/fuel, oil pressure and water temp. then oil temp, then volts (I like to see electrical problems from the cabin when they do happen).

[battleversiontc]

its devin not evan fool lol
fuji, just talk to evan,and not gwasabi. this topic has been gone over 100x in the FI section.

[battleversiontc]

so thats my missing link the volts lol nah i run one too
My Top Four: boost, air/fuel, oil pressure and water temp. then oil temp, then volts (I like to see electrical problems from the cabin when they do happen).

[battleversiontc]

and i swear that the sc peter is running can make more power then what hes making right now on it prolly tuning and fuel issue but ive seen the dynos for the xb's with the power enterprise one makin like 170 and i wouldnt run with out a management system its just dont do it

[2bad4u]

^ many many many many.
fuji, if you want to become a vendor for a low-cost, low-boost turbo kit, I'm sure people would be interested.

one more:headbang:

[cali yaris]

i wouldnt run with out a management system its just dont do it

but you'll race at 20 psi on a base map. Ok, you gotta admit that is at least a LITTLE funny... :biggrin:

[gwasabi]

I'm pretty sure the blitz charger can but I still dont like it. alright I'll take it back. It's not crap, just the one peter has is crap lol blitz is a good company i agree though. I rather have the power enterprise one....it looks nicer and peter doesn't have it....

[battleversiontc]

i have 3 maps tuned for this t3 60-1 turbo i have one for 12 psi ,15psi, 20psi i can go further on this turbo i really dont care if i blow it up that would actually be a bonus for me cause then i can drop my spare in and tune back from the last highest setting i had in and tune backwards i dont run t28 or t25 like everyone else for me its either go big or go home. plus to i rather push the limits of this motor since no one else wants to step up to the plate
but you'll race at 20 psi on a base map. Ok, you gotta admit that is at least a LITTLE funny... :biggrin:

[cali yaris]

Go for it, I'm glad someone is doing it!

[PETERPOOP]

and i swear that the sc peter is running can make more power then what hes making right now on it prolly tuning and fuel issue but ive seen the dynos for the xb's with the power enterprise one makin like 170 and i wouldnt run with out a management system its just dont do it

definately can. it just comes with a conservative tune. however, what you mentioned is my near future plans too. larger injectors/throttle body and meth injection....then tune.

:headbang:

thomas: what's with all the bashing on me? I was the first boosted yaris in hawaii, EVER. You like that? Let me know when your boyfriend gives you permission to get more stuff for your car. I like it when other hawaii people do stuff to their car; unlike you. :clap:

[fuji]

I was planning on going pretty mild. Just a bit more kick. Thanks to Gwasabi for the list of parts and to Cali Yaris for the recommended gauges. I would be more than happy with about 130 hp. Just want to keep it simple and drivable.:burnrubber:

[battleversiontc]

you can do 130hp with n/a its not really worth the money to invest into a a turbo setup that will make you 130hp cause its just not worth the time and alot of time buying parts of a used car can be either good or not cause you have to consider milage and shaft play on the turbo and if you have to rebuild so the turbos fresh the cost of that to. but a 6psi setting will prolly do you 150hp or so a 4 psi turbo set up not worth it. if you stick to a gt20 with some tc injectors you can run no management and run you at 130hp prolly at 6 psi. if anything else let me know ive built everything from 1.5l to 2.4l turbos so i can pretty much figure a set up

[anonymous user]

Did i miss a post, or are you FI guys not really worried about EGT?

[fuji]

Sorry, what is EGT?:confused::confused::confused:

[fuji]

Battleversion TC,

What would be awesome is if you could give a quick tutorial on how to approach 130hp naturally aspirated.

Of course the obvious ones are.....

Intake
Free flowing exhaust(I have the same muffler as Peterpoop!)
1ZZ throttle body - I will install it this weekend - god I hope it works!
NST Pulleys

Any other suggestions? Does it involve internal engine mods???

[PETERPOOP]

130 N/A!? i know cali yaris and others have gotten around 115whp on a dynojet being NA; it COULD be done. I know it was close when richard was developing his intake manifold. Other than that, noone has come to 130whp.

For the record, I did 133whp on a dynojet on my first pull. After that, my AFR readings made the dyno guys crap their pants. however, that is fixed and soon I'll be adding 1zz injectors with the 1zz TB and probably head back to the dyno before the tune/meth injection. I believe i'll hit 140whp with the addition of just the 1zz injectors and TB on top of what i already have. shoots

ps: thomas, I take it back, you don't have a boyfriend, she's a girl. And I do like you, I really do! :)

[gwasabi]

thomas: what's with all the bashing on me? I was the first boosted yaris in hawaii, EVER. You like that? Let me know when your boyfriend gives you permission to get more stuff for your car. I like it when other hawaii people do stuff to their car; unlike you. :clap:


can be answered with your own post from here

fuji, just talk to evan,and not gwasabi. this topic has been gone over 100x in the FI section.

It's not the fact I don't like other people in hawaii modding or what not, It's just kinda irritating when they overdo their ego. Oh btw I'm single now fyi. don't try to hit on me though I don't swing that way. plus, there are other things I rather spend my money on than just my car.

Anyway back to the turbo. 130hp?!?!?!?! you might as well SC it. Be the FIRST ONE WITH Power Enterprice SC on Hawaii and post videos on youtube! LAWL

Don't turbo if your gonna try for 130. not worth.

[gwasabi]

Battleversion TC,

What would be awesome is if you could give a quick tutorial on how to approach 130hp naturally aspirated.

Of course the obvious ones are.....

Intake
Free flowing exhaust(I have the same muffler as Peterpoop!)
1ZZ throttle body - I will install it this weekend - god I hope it works!
NST Pulleys

Any other suggestions? Does it involve internal engine mods???

you can pop on stage 1 clutch, lightened flywheel, headers, maybe new beefed up internals will help. change out the tb and injectors, new fuel map, do little tuning here and there.

hell if your into something different you can get ITB to make your engine bay look like you have a 300 hp lol

[battleversiontc]

ok heres the two list one will be for boosted and one will be for na
N/A Setup: intake, headers, exhaust, leave stock cat, pulleys, vvti controller, stage 1 clutch, lightened flywheel, intake manifold, throttle body you hit 130 easy cali did 107 with i/h/e pulleys richard did 120 with manifold xd throttle body and no exhaust. if your auto and not manual run a trans cooler and some synthetic trans fluid will act as a lightened flywheel and clutch assembly without 91 octane can run whatevers 87 89 91
VS
Turbo set up: turbo manifold, turbo, piping, injectors, bigger throttle body, high flow cat or delete cat for ultra free flow, exhaust, flywheel, stage 2 clutch, gauges, management or just leave stock tune, bov, boost controller this will prolly put you over 130hp gaurenteed at 6psi with 91 octane gotta run 91

so long story short it isnt worth all that money to run a turbo at 4psi turbos have a certain or minimum level they need to be run at if not then your not really gaining anything thats why most turbo kits are pre set to 6 psi some are higher but you get my point

[battleversiontc]

exhaust gas temp they arent neccessary because you wont be holding boost for long periods of time cause stock pistons will melt at 1500 degrees youll never get that high
Sorry, what is EGT?:confused::confused::confused:

[gwasabi]

i thought you cant use the VVTI controller? it only really works with VVTi-L I thought? or am I wrong?

well if that VVTI controller works you can get camcon (I think that was it) from power enterprise

[gwasabi]

If you have a friend with one of those ECU programmers get your ECU tuned and garans you'll put out over 100 with stock stuff lol. Something like how technosquare does their ecu tuning

[battleversiontc]

nope cause i run it on my tc works fine

[gwasabi]

REally?! man I'm picking one of those up hahahahaha I was thinking of picking it up but someone was telling me how it only works on VVTl-i cars

[gwasabi]

If tat's the case then you can get VVTi controller and 1zz injector and TB and you will probably get a singnificant boost in power.

[battleversiontc]

yup cause you can adjust fuel from it and adjust the vvti activation point it makes a difference theyve been running on this in the tc and the 1st gen xb's for a while now they are cake to tune

[gwasabi]

Yea I heard.

when does VVTi kick in on our cars? I was thinking around 4000-5000 I'd lower it to like 1500 -2000 and up the af ratio a bit.

fuck my bad I'm thinking vvtli

[battleversiontc]

yup kicks in around there more like 5000 and 1500-2000 is to low the lowest i would go is 3000 or 3500 in hondas you cannot even run vtec that low 1500-2000 and anyways that low youd waste alot of fuel just cruising

[gwasabi]

Yea it'd waste alot of gas for sure but thats not something you should be saying if your gonna go turbo anyway hahahaha

Are you sure about the vtec stuff cause my friend had a integra running vtec controller kicking in at 2k

[battleversiontc]

yup anything below 3000 your not really doing much but making noise what your trying to do is make the low cam run out and then transition into high cam smoothly what he is doing is actually acting as a negative affect if he actually ran it on a dyno and ran to red line hed see he lost power by doing so cause hes shortening the high cam from doing its job and turbo normally builds boost at 3k so your not really wasting gas not unless you have a heavy foot and love to pound the crap out of it cause i still get 30mpg on my yaris i build both hondas and toyotas ive done everything possible to a honda so i know honda stuff and toyotas pretty well on tuning and parts and stuff

[gwasabi]

http://www.powerenterpriseusa.net/products/electric/camcon/data/1NZ-FE.gif


this is the charts for PE's stock engine tune

[gwasabi]

expensive stuff though hahahaha

[battleversiontc]

So when you hear people say "I got a vtec controller and I set vtec to 2,000 rpm so im mad fast now, u know they're a not bright.

Why? This leads into my explanation on how vtec works but, basically on a vtec motor there is a vtec cam lobe and non vtec primary & secondary cam lobes. Those non vtec lobes are optimized for low end power delivery. However, @ upper RPM, the small lobes cannot deliver enough air nor keep the valves open long enough to continue to let the motor make power.

Hence, the VTEC crossover...where the VTEC cam lobe takes over duties in opening and closing the valves from the secondary and primary lobes. Since the vtec cam lobe is much taller, it can now provide more air and duration the motor needs to keep making power @ higher RPM.

Now think about it. What does setting VTEC at 3,000 rpm do? It makes a cam lobe designed to work well at HIGH rpm to work at LOW rpm. Conversely, setting VTEC too high will cause the motor to start dying out, then JUMP foward when the VTEC lobes take over.

If u have or do get a vtec controller, try it one day.

Set vtec to 3,000 and see how much of a pig the car is down low. Then set vtec to say 7,500 rpm or something. See how the car accelerates, slows down, then springs foward again at vtec x-over. You may think that is the car making more power, but if you were to look at dyno graphs, you would see the torque curve fall off, then rise back up @ your specified vtec cross over point. The above is also a good way to determine a starting point for an optimal vtec x-over when you have done some internal mods and u would like to set vtec @ a certain point. Take a dyno pull with vtec set low, then another pull with vtec set really high.

Overlap the graphs and where the curves intersect where power falls off and where power comes up is where you should start to mess around with a crossover point. Now, I-VTEC is VTEC, with a twist. Toyota's VVTL-i is the same thing as i-VTEC. Basically, in addition to VTEC, the ECU reads and modifies both intake and exhaust cam timing to an optimal point at every point on the RPM band. This ensures the most efficient cam timing to achieve optimal hp and torque. Infinitely Variable valve Timing and lift Electronic Control. This is why the new RSX-S motors, although only making 5 more hp than the old Type-R motors, are making around 12 more lb-ft of torque - because of i-vtec.

[gwasabi]

hmmm I see learned some new stuff today

[gwasabi]

never had one of these so never really got into it so I don't know much about it hahaha all I know is AF mixture can be adjusteds so I put 2 and 2 together and was like WOW! that might be useful

[battleversiontc]

but you get my point why you cant set it to low thats why tell your friend hes doing more harm then good

[gwasabi]

Yea I understand and he doesn't have the car an stolen hahaha

[gwasabi]

maybe I'll get this and give this a try before getting turbo it might be useful

[battleversiontc]

yup get the power cam con one for toyotas cause theres two models one for honda and one for toyota

[gwasabi]

yuuuups

[PETERPOOP]

It's just kinda irritating when they overdo their ego.

If you perceive me as having an ego over my yaris, I can't help you buddy. lol. I'm sorry to hear you got dumped, you'll be ok.

Now I hope you have your car clean for the meet.

[haku]

So when you hear people say "I got a vtec controller and I set vtec to 2,000 rpm so im mad fast now, u know they're a not bright.

Why? This leads into my explanation on how vtec works but, basically on a vtec motor there is a vtec cam lobe and non vtec primary & secondary cam lobes. Those non vtec lobes are optimized for low end power delivery. However, @ upper RPM, the small lobes cannot deliver enough air nor keep the valves open long enough to continue to let the motor make power.

Hence, the VTEC crossover...where the VTEC cam lobe takes over duties in opening and closing the valves from the secondary and primary lobes. Since the vtec cam lobe is much taller, it can now provide more air and duration the motor needs to keep making power @ higher RPM.

Now think about it. What does setting VTEC at 3,000 rpm do? It makes a cam lobe designed to work well at HIGH rpm to work at LOW rpm. Conversely, setting VTEC too high will cause the motor to start dying out, then JUMP foward when the VTEC lobes take over.

If u have or do get a vtec controller, try it one day.

Set vtec to 3,000 and see how much of a pig the car is down low. Then set vtec to say 7,500 rpm or something. See how the car accelerates, slows down, then springs foward again at vtec x-over. You may think that is the car making more power, but if you were to look at dyno graphs, you would see the torque curve fall off, then rise back up @ your specified vtec cross over point. The above is also a good way to determine a starting point for an optimal vtec x-over when you have done some internal mods and u would like to set vtec @ a certain point. Take a dyno pull with vtec set low, then another pull with vtec set really high.

Overlap the graphs and where the curves intersect where power falls off and where power comes up is where you should start to mess around with a crossover point. Now, I-VTEC is VTEC, with a twist. Toyota's VVTL-i is the same thing as i-VTEC. Basically, in addition to VTEC, the ECU reads and modifies both intake and exhaust cam timing to an optimal point at every point on the RPM band. This ensures the most efficient cam timing to achieve optimal hp and torque. Infinitely Variable valve Timing and lift Electronic Control. This is why the new RSX-S motors, although only making 5 more hp than the old Type-R motors, are making around 12 more lb-ft of torque - because of i-vtec.

that's some mighty fine copypasta you got there.

[battleversiontc]

yup

[fuji]

I am intrigued by the prospect of a VVTI controller combined with a throttle body and some bigger 1ZZ injectors. Has anyone tried this yet on a Yaris? Sounds like a pretty straight forward way to make power.:w00t:

[battleversiontc]

i dont believe on a yaris yet but i know on the first gen xbs. but if no one going do em to a yaris i going pull mine outta my tc and go screw aroun with em on the yaris