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BailOut
06-01-2009, 02:48 AM
Despite some initial rockiness my organic garden is off to a great start for this, my second season, 2009.

The rockiness came from my first attempt at indoor seedlings. I could not find any prepackaged organic starter soil and for reasons I cannot fathom now I decided to not use my own soil. I let an employee at Home Depot talk me into creating my own soil-less mix of sphagum peat moss and organic plant food 1:1. To make a long and painful story short this concoction was toxic to my seeds and I lost 2/3 of them - and a month of indoor growing time - to the attempt. Zero sprouts.

Thankfully I still had some seeds left, my food coop had their annual seedling sale and I was able to trade some pedal power (delivering a big poultry watering can from the south side of town to the north side of town using my bicycle and trailer) for a few plants from a friend.

Now, a few weeks later, things are in full swing. :smile:

I have expanded my garden in two ways:

1) I will be training all of the vine squashes to trail out of the raised beds. This increases their available space exponentially, though it will take moving them around when I have to mow the back yard.

2) I added 4 5-gallon terracotta pots for overflow.


I have enhanced my garden in 4 ways:

1) I have planted lots of flowers and better placed together those flowering plants that require pollination in order to attract more bees.

2) Today I added something that's been on my wish list for a while: grapes! A 6-foot pyramid trellis with 1 canadice (red seedless) plant and one himrod (green seedless) plant. These replace 2 of the original ornamental landscaping plants that never did well.

3) Strawberries! Some of you may recall a silly issue I had last year where I bought a windowsill strawberry planter whose seeds turned out to be cherry tomatoes. This year I bought organic seedlings from a local gardening place that my wife and I transplanted into two strawberry pots (the kind that have little cups around the sides), and the leftovers went into one of the overflow pots.

4) A dwarf Japanese apple tree. We actually transplanted this last Fall and have been told it should produce this year. This replaced another failing ornamental landscaping plant.


I have prepared for my garden better this year by:

1) Attempting indoor seedlings long before the last frost. I did not succeed but I learned a lot.

2) Getting the proper tools and equipment to better control and expand the automatic water drip system.

3) Reading up on each plant to learn better how to care for them.

4) Lots of compost. :smile:


It is still early in the season and the late start will set back my overall production a bit but things are looking good so far.


Lost to the moles:

Cucumber x4
Dill x2
Cilantro x1
Hungarian pepper x1


Death toll:

Moles: 8 plants
Dogs: 3 moles


Here is what has sprouted and is growing well:

Corn x6
Pumpkin x2
Watermelon x2
Zucchini x5
Cucumber x2
Summer squash, vine x4
Summer squash, bush x2
Scallop squash x4
Cilantro x1
Sweet basil x2
Bib lettuce x6
Butter lettuce x8
Multicolored carrots x30
Finger carrots x20
Snap bean x3
Bush bean x3
Snap pea x3
Slicing tomato x2
Cherry tomato x2
Chard x1
Spinach x3
Strawberries x27
Bell pepper x2
Broccoli x3
Cauliflower x3
Nasturtiums x10 (edible flowers)
Chives
Green onions
1 large onion-like plant that I cannot identify but that grew from a sprig handed to me by a friend last year


I intentionally planned to overproduce by a bit for 2 reasons:

1) I want to be able to give some food to the local food banks and programs.

2) I want to learn how to can this Fall.


The tomatoes and strawberries have required lots of pruning lately as they are growing like weeds, the zucchini is already budding, my dogs have 3 confirmed mole kills (I didn't even know we had moles around here and couldn't figure out what was digging in my raised beds until our wolf mix brought me one as a present a couple of weeks ago), I have compost coming out of my ears, I have a ton of wildflower seeds on standby to fill in any gaps and to help attract bees, and the drip system is dialed in.

So far there have been no pests other than moles. No squash bugs, no aphids, etc.but I am ready for them if they show up. The local gardening center sells lady bugs and I know what the squash bugs look like (and they are relatively slow so you can catch them by hand and squash them).

I'm still a rookie but things are looking promising indeed. :smile:

Kaotic Lazagna
06-01-2009, 03:05 AM
Wow. That's a large garden. Got any pics? hehe. This made me hungry for some reason. Time to eat.

Shroomster
06-01-2009, 03:31 AM
where were you for my garden question last week Brian!!!


ok I have a question for you,

my wife bought 6' bamboo sticks and cut them in half to attach our cucumber vines to, I don't know how this will work out (they're already growing cukes about 3-4") she planted the vines inbetween corn that is relatively the same size height right now, thinking the corn would act in a way to help the vines.

any suggestions?

I was thinking a trellis maybe 10' wide and 3 or 4 foot tall

BailOut
06-01-2009, 03:39 AM
where were you for my garden question last week Brian!!!


ok I have a question for you,

my wife bought 6' bamboo sticks and cut them in half to attach our cucumber vines to, I don't know how this will work out (they're already growing cukes about 3-4") she planted the vines inbetween corn that is relatively the same size height right now, thinking the corn would act in a way to help the vines.

any suggestions?

I was thinking a trellis maybe 10' wide and 3 or 4 foot tall
I totally missed your garden question last week, though I'm no expert so maybe that's not a bad thing. :wink:

Expert or not I know that cucumbers are a ground vine, not a climbing vine. As such the corn stalks will definitely help it by providing anchor points but the bamboo will only be good for the same purpose, not for climbing.

In fact, cucumbers, like other ground vines, are supposed to be planted in mounds so that they get a running start, so to speak. That's one reason I got so mad at the moles... to get to 2 cucumber sprouts of 6 they tore apart 2/3 of the mound, nearly killing another 2 sprouts by proxy (I was able to successfully transplant one of them but not the other after rebuilding the failed part of the mound).

Shroomster
06-01-2009, 04:05 AM
hmmm, so leaving them on the ground will be the right idea. hopefully we'll get a modest amount. we have at least 10 actual cukes right now and a lot more flowering....

IllusionX
06-01-2009, 09:25 AM
my god.. that's huge variety...

highwaypass
06-01-2009, 11:04 AM
wow seems you have a huge garden..
pics please :biggrin:

IllusionX
06-01-2009, 12:10 PM
Question though.. how do you know your seeds are not GMO?

kurokoma-kun
06-01-2009, 12:28 PM
1) I want to be able to give some food to the local food banks and programs.
2) I want to learn how to can this Fall.



Congrats Bailout! Canning is a very rewarding activity. From childhood, I helped my dad put up dozens of jars of garden produce every fall until he passed away. Soon you will be making your own jam/jelly, pickles, relish, and more. The food bank folks will be so grateful. Good luck, and Death to Moles! :smile:

CTScott
06-01-2009, 12:48 PM
Excellent!

We plant a good sized garden (20' x 50') and freeze as much as possible. We plant corn, tomatoes, sugar snap peas, green beans, edamame, peppers, cucumbers, squash, lettuce (8 different varieties), broccoli rabe, kale, Cichorium (Italian Dandelion greens), radish, garlic, herbs (basil, parsley, dill, thyme, mint, chervil and chives) and pumpkins.

We also have an orchard where we grow apples, peaches, blueberries, raspberries, black berries, goose berries, grapes, strawberries, hazelnuts, and chestnuts.

We try to keep organic when possible, and thanks to our chickens and ducks all of our fertilizer is organic.

BailOut
06-01-2009, 01:56 PM
Question though.. how do you know your seeds are not GMO?
I'm fairly certain because:

1) I get 90% of the seed I bring in from a superbly managed local farm, Mewalt Organics.

2) I get the other 10% of the seed I bring in from a USDA certified organic producer in California.

3) I produce roughly half my own seeds. I have never had a plant fail to produce seed, or had those seeds fail to germinate. Evil companies like Monsanto typically "turn off" the reproduction genes in seeds in order to lock you into buying from them for each crop.

4) There is no large scale GMO-based agribusiness near me nor the places I get seed from. At least not yet.


I'll get some photos this evening, all.

BailOut
06-01-2009, 01:59 PM
Excellent!

We plant a good sized garden (20' x 50') and freeze as much as possible. We plant corn, tomatoes, sugar snap peas, green beans, edamame, peppers, cucumbers, squash, lettuce (8 different varieties), broccoli rabe, kale, Cichorium (Italian Dandelion greens), radish, garlic, herbs (basil, parsley, dill, thyme, mint, chervil and chives) and pumpkins.

We also have an orchard where we grow apples, peaches, blueberries, raspberries, black berries, goose berries, grapes, strawberries, hazelnuts, and chestnuts.

We try to keep organic when possible, and thanks to our chickens and ducks all of our fertilizer is organic.
Wow! That's a huge setup! I'm envious. :smile:

My garden is not that big but I manage the space well. 48 square feet of raised beds, 4x 5-gallon pots, 2 strawberry pots, one trellis and one tree.

Shroomster
06-02-2009, 03:42 AM
I'm envious of both of you.... and to top it off now knowing that even seeds can be purchased organic....sheesh, looks like this crop may be a one time shot....

I'll have to do some investigations into local co-ops/organic growers and the cush here in orlando...

50MPGDream
06-02-2009, 04:22 AM
TTIWWOP :)

SeaYa
06-02-2009, 09:51 AM
Brian, what is the total area of your garden? Just trying to get an idea of how spaced out everything is...thanks!

BailOut
06-02-2009, 02:19 PM
It rained all through yesterday evening but I was able to get some pictures this morning.

My garden:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/1_-_Garden.jpg

This was (is?) the gopher's favorite bed. You can see the areas they dug out recently:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/2_-_Gopher_bed.jpg

Here are the cucumber seedlings I was able to rescue but each of them has been damaged by the gophers. I've rebuilt that mound twice but have since given up on it:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/3_-_Gopher_damage.jpg

This is our new grape trellis:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/4_-_grapes.jpg

And here are the strawberries that we keep on the patio:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/5_-_Strawberries.jpg

CTScott
06-02-2009, 04:47 PM
Grass is evil. The more vegies you plant the less you have to mow. I have over an acre of lawn, so every time I expand the garden I think "Yes!, that's 2 less minutes of mowing every week".

CTScott
06-02-2009, 05:40 PM
Here's a few shots of mine. We have two main garden areas, and then the herbs and fruit and nuts are spread out in various parts of the yard.

Main garden (20'x50') - Raised beds on left with sugar snap peas (front), tomatoes and peppers (middle), lettuce and greens (rear). Cultivated area on right contains corn, squash, cucumbers, beans, edamame, garlic. Two 30+ year old blueberry bushes in the rear center.
24650

Second garden area (more tomatoes) to left of chickens and ducks. Pumpkins, raspberries, and blackberries behind. Grapes growing over chicken run, like a trellis, also shades the chickens. Peach, apple and chestnut trees to the right of chicken coop (behind the bamboo). Concolor Fir trees to the left of the duck run will be xmas trees (in about three more years).
24651

Strawberry bed by pool deck. More blueberry bushes to the left of and behind the perennial flower bed on the left.
24652


Hazelnut trees (behind red maple), apple trees, and more xmas trees in orchard area off side of driveway.
24653

GeneW
06-03-2009, 12:56 AM
3) I produce roughly half my own seeds. I have never had a plant fail to produce seed, or had those seeds fail to germinate. Evil companies like Monsanto typically "turn off" the reproduction genes in seeds in order to lock you into buying from them for each crop.

That's not the entire story, Brian.

Sterile hybrids have been popular seeds for a long time. The commercial seed companies claim that they can get better yields and better disease resistance from these hybrids. What they don't tell you is that you cannot breed these plants "true". They're like mules than like horses or donkeys.

Monsanto's "terminator gene" was meant to prevent the diffusion of their special GMO plasm into nature and keep poor farmers on the hook with Monsanto.

Monsanto has been suing farmers who have plants which contain "Monsanto genes" that came to them through genetic diffusion from the environment. I wish to heck I'd known about the first of these lawsuits because I'd have been glad to slip the Farmer's lawyer a $100 or $50 buck note to keep the defense strong. This is the kind of horseshit lawsuit that makes Capitalism look like a scam and creates stupid "Rights" that are crap.

I don't buy hybrids myself. I have a fourth generation of Kale coming up in my garden. Every one of them, all six of them, are volunteers from last year. I plan to add to these six about five more from a separate line to keep up the genetic diversity. Might also add Scotch Kale in the indoors for variety.

Odd as it sounds, Brian, we do agree on the necessity of sexual reproduction of foodstuffs to build up vitality, defend against parasites and diseases and create robust foods. Maybe some GMO will work, some day, but for today it's in its infancy and given how Monsanto acts like Brigands they're making it a tough sell.

I give away my seeds to friends and fellow gardeners.

This year I'm trying to grow Quinoa and keep a seed collection from it. My Amaranth from last year was good but I dislike how Amaranth tastes so I don't plan on growing it in abundance this year. The two don't cross so I don't see a problem if I grow some more this year to keep the strain vigorous with new exposure to the environment.

Gene

cali yaris
06-03-2009, 01:38 AM
+1 about Monsanto. They sued a corn farmer when their GMO pollen blew onto his field and pollinated his corn. Lame.

Some of our seeds are products of last year's plants that we allowed to go to seed.

Here's mine for 2009:

x2 cherry tomatoes
x2 large tomatoes (2 kinds)
x2 eggplant
x3 hot peppers
x4 green and red bell peppers
x5 yellow squash
x5 zuchinni
x2 cantalope
x8 corn
x19 bush beans
x3 basil
x1 oregano
x3 chives
x2 rosemary
x1 lemon balm
x1 raspberry
x4 chard
x8 spinach
x3 cilantro
x5 aloe vera
x2 sage (two kinds)

TREES
grapefruit
tangerine
peaches
Meyer lemons
dwarf avocado

Shroomster
06-03-2009, 12:37 PM
how do you know if the seeds you purchased are monsanto?

BailOut
06-03-2009, 12:47 PM
how do you know if the seeds you purchased are monsanto?
AFAIK Monsanto doesn't sell seeds in the consumer segment, just their newest flagship pesticide, Roundup (their previous flagship product was Agent Orange and we all know how that turned out).

GeneW
06-04-2009, 07:21 AM
AFAIK Monsanto doesn't sell seeds in the consumer segment, just their newest flagship pesticide, Roundup (their previous flagship product was Agent Orange and we all know how that turned out).

That's non-sense, Brian. Agent Orange and Roundup are as different as gasoline and ethanol. What's more, glyphosphides are now available in "generic" forms, which kind of demonstrates their age on the market.

Agent Orange (a blend of the agents 2,4,5 T and 2,4 T) was produced by Dow Chemical and Dupont, not Monsanto. The most toxic part of it was not really part of the specified chemicals but was the product of an unwanted "side reaction", that produced "dioxin". Sloppy processes, probably because of the volume needed for LBJ's dirty little war, lead to dioxin being sprayed onto US troops, Vietnamese people and vast areas of Viet Nam. This came to light when a producer of 2,4,5 T had a thermal issue, lost control, and contaminated areas of Italy with dioxin. At that point Dow and Dupont couldn't bluff and BS their way out of it.

Roundup is one of the "glyphosphide" class of herbicides. The stuff is used as part of a "no-till" mode of agriculture that reduces soil erosion. There is no way in hell that farmers could put Agent Orange on crop lands due to its persistence. Monsanto loves the stuff because they can market "Roundup resistant" seeds to farmers.

The two do not even share the same mode of attack - Agent Orange burns out plants by forcing them to over grow. Roundup interferes with protein synthesis.

I've never seen Monsanto seeds for non-commercial sales but I would not be surprised if they have a consumer division out there. Monsanto is sneaky.

Gene

BailOut
06-04-2009, 11:12 AM
Agent Orange (a blend of the agents 2,4,5 T and 2,4 T) was produced by Dow Chemical and Dupont, not Monsanto.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_orange#Against_manufacturers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#History

GeneW
06-04-2009, 09:16 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_orange#Against_manufacturers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#History


Ahhhh! Misread it. Sorry, Brian.

Gene

Shroomster
06-04-2009, 09:49 PM
well I picked 4 cukes today and ate one and I'm not dead (referring to my previous thread), they were delicious, and I think I'm liking this gardening thing :)