No more Pontiac. :( [Archive] - Toyota Yaris Forums

staticorex

06-01-2009, 11:59 AM

:cry::cry::cry::cry: I was hoping they could save it. Now I'm sad. :( Anyone else sad about this? Or do the Toyota fans not care? :p

From CNN...
GM will shed its Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab brands and cut loose more than 2,000 of its 6,000 U.S. dealerships by next year. That could result in more than 100,000 additional job losses if those dealerships are forced to close.

MadMax

06-01-2009, 12:13 PM

Honestly, I thought Saturn would survive as it appeared to have the most fuel-efficient lineup of all the GM brands. I suspect some European company will pick up Saab; but good riddance to Hummer and while Pontiac had some nice cars, they focused too much on the dwindling American market which led to this downfall. Americans are not/can't afford muscle cars right now, not with the state of our economy and the price of gas rising.

The only reason Ford is not going through this right now is that it is more globalized and more broadly focused in its lineup.

staticorex

06-01-2009, 12:44 PM

I agree. Pontiac upset me but I wasn't surprised. But I was surprised to see Saturn on the list. No surprise with Hummer and Saab though.

hatchbackkid82

06-01-2009, 12:50 PM

Really don't care about Pontiac, that's what happens when you try to sell crap. I feel bad for the employees they are going to be laying off.

marcus

06-01-2009, 01:20 PM

damn it i was thinking of getting jazz..i love the pontiac solstice turbo. cheap too.

staticorex

06-01-2009, 01:28 PM

Ha. Then buy a Porsche. :p

yaris-me

06-01-2009, 01:32 PM

GM has practiced bad brand management and now they cut off the arms to save the body. Saturn could probably be saved, if not become the leading division to save GM. Since Saturn has the least seniority the top managers are in the other division and they will save their own ass before they save someone else.

Deltasix

06-01-2009, 02:55 PM

supmet

06-01-2009, 03:18 PM

I don't really car for the cars produced by these brands, but I do feel horrible for the people losing their jobs. The people mainly responsible for the downsizing are probably going to rebound just fine, but the other people (sales personal, management, technicians, assembly line workers) have it rough.

I feel a little bad for saturn employees.

The hummer employees losing their jobs is natural selection in action. If you couldn't see with global warming on the news every day, and gas hitting 5 bucks a gallon last year, that hummers were on the way out, I don't think your brain is working.

MadMax

06-01-2009, 03:51 PM

Why does everyone feel sorry for the employees who are losing their jobs? The UAW will have to continue paying them, that is why they paid such huge union fees for so long. It is why UAW is whining so much, and asking the government to bail them out...

And I really hate Hummers, probably because 1) they are nothing like the original HMMWV, 2) they get even worse gas mileage then my Jeep, 3) they are driven by self-centered pricks who don't realize what a huge piece of crap they are (just like the Prius) and 4) they are a joke offroad, where they are suppose to be at their finest. Just watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpxoomyFs_0&feature=PlayList&p=6AF4457294E8674C&index=0&playnext=1)...

I also have a Jeep, and am constantly challenging my neighbor who has an H3 to go offroading with me. He won't, because he knows my 1940s technology will make his Hummer look bad!

staticorex

06-01-2009, 04:05 PM

^ I have to agree with you on Hummers. There was a Jeep always parked near me in undergrad that had on its windshield "Hummer rescue vehicle". I always got a kick out of that. :p

But I am sad to know there will be no more GTO's, No G8 just when it was getting started (and getting rave reviews from respectable auto reviewers). A lot of people like the Solstice, rated one of the best in customer satisfaction by CR. It has been a major part of America's auto market, as has Saturn been. They will be missed by many of us.

And I've been a fan of Saab for years. I hope they survive somehow by going back to Europe or something.

nemelek

06-01-2009, 04:11 PM

When Crysler downsized I was amazed at some of the individuals dealerships in my area that were on the list to close. In a year or so there will be a demand for new cars with no place near your home to get them.

SilverBack

06-01-2009, 04:25 PM

But I am sad to know there will be no more GTO's, No G8 just when it was getting started (and getting rave reviews from respectable auto reviewers). A lot of people like the Solstice, rated one of the best in customer satisfaction by CR. It has been a major part of America's auto market, as has Saturn been. They will be missed by many of us.

^Agree. The GTO, G6, G8, Solstice/Sky and all Saturns will be missed. Damn shame too

tk-421

06-01-2009, 04:30 PM

Just watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpxoomyFs_0&feature=PlayList&p=6AF4457294E8674C&index=0&playnext=1)...
That is just sad.

BailOut

06-01-2009, 04:56 PM

Saab was never on the map for me. I have never known anyone that owned one.

Pontiac, like its parent company, has never had anything to offer me and I will dance on Hummer's grave. However, I, too, am sad to see Saturn go. As of today it is (was) the one division within all of GM that has lots of compact models and could have carried GM into the future.

IllusionX

06-01-2009, 05:17 PM

Not to mention GM's first fully electric car (EV1) was branded Saturn.

SailDesign

06-01-2009, 06:59 PM

Pontiac at least had the good sense to market a Toyota in disguise. The Vibe is just a Matrix in Pontiac clothes.

tuckevalastin

06-01-2009, 07:42 PM

Saturn is the only brand without any real purpose. The Opel Insignia and Opel Astra could have been the next G5 and G6 Pontiacs, The Skye was already available as a Solstice, and the Vue and Outlook are already available as GMC/Chevy models. There really wasn't any good reason to keep Saturn around.

Saturn is for sale and the most attractive buyer is Roger Penske who would sell Renault-Nissan built vehicles. Sadly though, the Korean made Nissans rebadged as Samsung models are what he's currently looking to sell.

Saab could have been a fun brand to reinvent but it would never be a big money maker for a company as big as GM.

Saab is also up for sale. The most interesting potenial buyer is Koenigsegg (you know the Swedish guys who make FAST cars).

HUMMER could also have been a very good project if GM had money to spend. A Hummer brand reworked to compete against Jeep could have sold vehicles but there is absolutely no way a government owned GM will let HUMMER continue to be a GM product when everyone seems to feel like they are the root of all evil.

Hummer is for sale and supposedly has two pontential buyers, most likely Indian or Chinese companies.

Pontiac was the brand for true American car enthusiasts. Losing Pontiac is awfully bad for GM but it appears GM is willing to cut anything in order to satisfy the government.

Pontiac is DEAD

JBIZZ

06-01-2009, 07:56 PM

I heard Pontiacs sell better than Buicks or Cadillacs, but are not as lucrative in profit on each car. I use to be a GM guy, after Toyota of course, but would probably choose a Ford now, since they have shown there a responsible company. It is unfortunate that the domestic manufacturers can't produce nearly as good of a car as the Japanese. At least there on par with German manufacturers though.

GeneW

06-01-2009, 08:33 PM

The only reason Ford is not going through this right now is that it is more globalized and more broadly focused in its lineup.

....not exactly... Ford went through a horrendous shakeup a few years back, shedding tens of thousands of white collar employees and outsourcing quite a few models, especially the smaller ones. They already have been through the mill like GM, except that they did it more quietly.

BTW, Oldsmobile was eliminated a while back. Nobody seemed to think that was a symptom of GM's decay.

Gene

GeneW

06-01-2009, 08:37 PM

I feel a little bad for saturn employees.

The hummer employees losing their jobs is natural selection in action. If you couldn't see with global warming on the news every day, and gas hitting 5 bucks a gallon last year, that hummers were on the way out, I don't think your brain is working.

How about we make a little agreement here? You and the rest of the True Believers keep your religious convictions of "climate change" and its sources to yourself and I won't start another political controversy like the one we had in the Fuel Economy section? Sounds fair to me, considering.

As far as the Hummer.... GM probably made good money on them until the price of gasoline spiked. Given how the US Government owns over seventy percent of GM, and that the Hummer is a Politically Incorrect Vehicle, it's a no brainer why GM dumped the line.

Gene

AlexNet0

06-01-2009, 09:05 PM

I cant say that Im sad to see Pontiac go out, however I did like the new G8

supmet

06-01-2009, 09:14 PM

How about we make a little agreement here? You and the rest of the True Believers keep your religious convictions of "climate change" and its sources to yourself and I won't start another political controversy like the one we had in the Fuel Economy section? Sounds fair to me, considering.

As far as the Hummer.... GM probably made good money on them until the price of gasoline spiked. Given how the US Government owns over seventy percent of GM, and that the Hummer is a Politically Incorrect Vehicle, it's a no brainer why GM dumped the line.

Gene

I made no claims as to the truth of global warming, or its causes. I just pointed out that it has been in the news, and quite a bit. Your second paragraph is just an elaboration of what I was saying. Shift out of argue mode and into reading mode, it might do you some good.

And post what you want. 99% of the forum skips over your long winded posts full of hot air. I just read and argue with you out of boredom.

GeneW

06-01-2009, 09:41 PM

I made no claims as to the truth of global warming, or its causes. I just pointed out that it has been in the news, and quite a bit. Your second paragraph is just an elaboration of what I was saying. Shift out of argue mode and into reading mode, it might do you some good.

And post what you want. 99% of the forum skips over your long winded posts full of hot air. I just read and argue with you out of boredom.

Try reading yourself... I'll edit out the factual parts for the benefit of objective readers.

"If you couldn't see with global warming on the news every day that hummers were on the way out, I don't think your brain is working."

You tried to slip some of your Gaia Worship past the class. I consider Global Warming news to be as factual as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and so do many others, which means we wouldn't let it affect us.

Nice try with slipping some of your old time religion past the class. Like I said before, keep that Holy Roller crap to your little self, and I'll keep mine to myself. Sounds fair to me.

Gene

GeneW

06-01-2009, 09:42 PM

so....how bout that Pontiac

You ever see a Hudson, Packard or Studebaker in the flesh? They were awfully nice cars but didn't cut it in the marketplace.

Life goes on.

Gene

GeneW

06-01-2009, 09:54 PM

hmmm i dont think you got the meaning of my post guys lol

i just want to know why cant they just leave SAAB a SAAB , OPEL as OPEL etc etc

I don't know... maybe GM has some ulterior motive, or maybe the US "Auto Task Force" and "Auto Czar" has something up their sleeves?

tuckevalastin

06-01-2009, 09:55 PM

You ever see a Hudson, Packard or Studebaker in the flesh? They were awfully nice cars but didn't cut it in the marketplace.

Life goes on.

Gene

Seen and driven and especially in the case of Studebaker, they are wonderful cars.

And not that I'm agreeing with your point but you can certainly mention Auburn, Cord, and Duesenberg.. They were the cars of the stars, the greatest cars in the world; that is until their finances failed.

ka0sx

06-01-2009, 09:56 PM

so....... Government motors ehh? =P
I actually wish the government would in fact take control of the company to reshape it not to launder the debt onto the tax payers without any say from the taxpayers about what is going on with their money.

tuckevalastin

06-01-2009, 10:02 PM

SailDesign

06-01-2009, 10:05 PM

I'l just be interested to see if a company that is in reality owned by you and I can actually design and build cars that you and I want. interesting....

tuckevalastin

06-01-2009, 10:16 PM

I'l just be interested to see if a company that is in reality owned by you and I can actually design and build cars that you and I want. interesting....

The problem is You and I want completely different cars but whose to say whether your wants are more important than mine if we both own an equal share.

GeneW

06-01-2009, 10:25 PM

I'l just be interested to see if a company that is in reality owned by you and I can actually design and build cars that you and I want. interesting....

Don't want to be difficult,l but "you" and "I" don't own a thing. The US Government owns it and a bunch of Activists and Technocrats will run it. If you have doubts wait for the shareholders meeting..... but don't wait too long.

I for one want to see the subsidies needed to make a little car in the US. If Toyota and Honda couldn't do it at a profit how will GM do it? Why should I spend on my own car and someone else's too?

Gene

GeneW

06-01-2009, 10:27 PM

Do you honestly think that the government isn't going to tell GM exactly what to build, where to build it, and when it should be built? And do you honestly think that taking a vote from the general public as to what GM should spend their money on will result in a success? I mean isn't there a point to a business career, experience, and knowledge of the automobile and automibile industry?

Trabant.... made by the government, for the people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-B0503-0015-001%2C_Sachsenring_Trabant_601.jpg

Gene

supmet

06-01-2009, 10:32 PM

Try reading yourself... I'll edit out the factual parts for the benefit of objective readers.

"If you couldn't see with global warming on the news every day that hummers were on the way out, I don't think your brain is working."

You tried to slip some of your Gaia Worship past the class. I consider Global Warming news to be as factual as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and so do many others, which means we wouldn't let it affect us.

Nice try with slipping some of your old time religion past the class. Like I said before, keep that Holy Roller crap to your little self, and I'll keep mine to myself. Sounds fair to me.

Gene

And your complex still doesn't allow you to see my point(and I think you might have a serious problem, because you basically regurgitated my point into your own words already). The day the "green revolution" started hummer was doomed. Your opinion, and my opinion about the global warming are irrelevant.

But now I'm confused - do I worship the earth(gaia worship) or god(holy roller). And what does either have to do with making market projections off of OTHER people's beliefs?

GeneW

06-01-2009, 10:37 PM

The day the "green revolution" started hummer was doomed.

There you go again....

Gene

Bob_VT

06-01-2009, 11:01 PM

The Trabant had body panels made of masonite panels..... light weight and would not rust but you could put a fist through one real easy (and if you have had a few too many to drink.........)

Sad to see Pontiac go. Saab will just be absorbed in Europe...... Saturn had some great features such as the polymer panels....... Hummer ....... it is nothing more than a glorified GM 2500 chassis .....

I hope that chevy and buick absorbs some of the models..... and in typical fashion rebadge them.

Funny no one has mentioned the "other" GM companies that will suffer with common household products.

GeneW

06-01-2009, 11:43 PM

hihih my dad had one just like that except in the station wagon version, that thing needed the engine to be flooded to get it started lol. my dad would tell me horror stories about it.

If anyone checks the links the Trabant was to be equipped with a 1.1 liter VW engine meant for the Polo. Sounds like it would have run decently, without the need to flood the motor first.

GM probably won't make something that shoddy, more likely it'll be something so underpowered and weak to make the Yaris look like a Subaru WRX.

Gene

Deltasix

06-02-2009, 12:26 AM

The hummer employees losing their jobs is natural selection in action. If you couldn't see with global warming on the news every day, and gas hitting 5 bucks a gallon last year, that hummers were on the way out, I don't think your brain is working.

Why does everyone feel sorry for the employees who are losing their jobs....

I guess I feel bad for them because I was an employee of a company that went under recently, and despite the company not performing on a corporate level, I know that me and the employees that worked for me did a great job. And while we might not care for what these companies produced in the way of cars (I know I sure don't) I don't really feel the need to be an asshole about thousands upon thousands of people losing there jobs because of it. :thumbdown:

And I'm not sure the auto workers union covers the marketing people, the sales people, and the mechanics that service the cars.

SailDesign

06-02-2009, 10:12 AM

I guess I feel bad for them because I was an employee of a company that went under recently, and despite the company not performing on a corporate level, I know that me and the employees that worked for me did a great job. And while we might not care for what these companies produced in the way of cars (I know I sure don't) I don't really feel the need to be an asshole about thousands upon thousands of people losing there jobs because of it. :thumbdown:

And I'm not sure the auto workers union covers the marketing people, the sales people, and the mechanics that service the cars.

+1. for a remarkably similar reason.
The hummer employees were not there because they loved Hummers, but because that was the job available in town. I'm sure they would build Yarii with just as much enthusiasm if that was where they were built.

Shroomster

06-02-2009, 12:30 PM

I'm upset at the workers (union or not) who get paid astronomical salaries or hourly rates to install a few plastic trim pieces on a car then get mad when they can't afford their 300k home anymore.

or the ones who haven't worked in 5, 10, 20 years, just living off GM pensions

feel sorry for them? hell no I don't.
they are the ones 'building it' they get paid once to make it...I get paid to fix it, time and time again, because their engineers can't make it properly, and I am barely scraping by.

Sabretooth

06-02-2009, 01:53 PM

Rumor mill is circulating that either Saab is gonna be purchased by either Fiat, or staying in Sweden by way of Koenigsegg... Which means we could see a really good Saab sports car is Koenigsegg buys em out.

Deltasix

06-02-2009, 01:54 PM

The auto workers get paid a reasonable salary, its the rest of us that don't. The unions were what allowed the average American to buy their own car, their own house, and to be able to retire. Without them, people putting together cars might be making more like a dollar an hour, with no benefits, and no hope for retirement. Rather than be angry at union workers, I'd be happy of what they were able to accomplish, and, despite the fear of falling into some evil commie-pinko state, would see how to emulate that in other industries.

supmet

06-02-2009, 02:35 PM

Sorry guys. I've said it before and I'll say it again. When I was 16 or 17, I called the housing collapse, and the collapse of hummer, followed shortly by GM. If you couldn't see it, you were greedy or retarded. I'm really, really tired of "feeling sorry" for a bunch of people that ruined a perfectly good country with their own ignorance. Everyone after vietnam has had the world handed to them on a silver platter and now they are learning how much work it actually takes to survive.

This is just the first of many millions of lay offs. You think its bad now? A computer could already make you your big mac(and actually get your order right more than 60% of the time), McDonald's is just waiting for the right time to replace everyone. People aren't quite ready to accept a world run completely by robots. I already have computers checking me out at the albertsons down the street(and to think the checkers and baggers had the nerve to strike a few years back). 90% of packaging, shipping, manufacturing, and assembly jobs will be gone in the next decade or two.

staticorex

06-02-2009, 02:41 PM

Okay Karl Marx. :p

Sabretooth

06-02-2009, 02:53 PM

Nostradamus lives, and he posts on Yarisworld!!!!

MadMax

06-02-2009, 03:39 PM

Hummer's not dead, it's now Chinese! I wonder if Ahhhhnold is going to keep his now that the company is owned by Commies (Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Company)!

RHDVIPbB

06-02-2009, 07:08 PM

^Agree. The GTO, G6, G8, Solstice/Sky and all Saturns will be missed. Damn shame too

I guess if you want one you have to go to Australia now and buy a Holden.

staticorex

06-02-2009, 07:10 PM

^ Yeah we can still buy a Commadore. :p

anonymous user

06-02-2009, 09:28 PM

GeneW

06-02-2009, 09:59 PM

This is just the first of many millions of lay offs. You think its bad now? A computer could already make you your big mac(and actually get your order right more than 60% of the time), McDonald's is just waiting for the right time to replace everyone. People aren't quite ready to accept a world run completely by robots. I already have computers checking me out at the albertsons down the street(and to think the checkers and baggers had the nerve to strike a few years back). 90% of packaging, shipping, manufacturing, and assembly jobs will be gone in the next decade or two.

I dunno.... not being a pain or anything but automating a task is still NOT quite that easy. I started in a product line with PLC - programmable logic controllers - and they're not that incredible.

McDonald's already has a lot of "automatic" cookers, especially in the grill area. Still cheaper to have people put the burgers together, for now any how.

Someday, sure.... I automated two thirds of my first job out of college, replacing data entry with a file transfer utility. Pretty easy there, but making a robot do something that requires fine motor control - and doing it cheaply enough to replace a minimum wage worker - that's not so easy.

Gene

TLyttle

06-03-2009, 12:39 AM

"Turn the pod, HAL..."

GeneW

06-03-2009, 12:43 AM

"Turn the pod, HAL..."

Some day maybe... but not today.

One of Kubrick's better movies.

Gene

staticorex

06-03-2009, 11:47 AM

Everything you read on CNN, please don't take it as spoken truth. Saturn and Saab are not going BK.

I wasn't taking it as proof, just listing it as a reference. I saw it on Yahoo before checking my mail and looked up the first news site that came to mind to confirm it. I was just showing I didn't make it up. :p I'm sure some of the 4 will be picked up and survive, but as of the first day I posted this the media was saying it was so. :p