rear disc conversion

[vten]

hi guys,

i recently just bought the rear disc conversion and the R1 drilled and slotted rotor from microimage...

I have't had chance to install them, but surely they look good, but the thing is the front rotor is a tad smaller than the rear ... which I kinda hate .... so do you think it's worth to upgrade the front rotor with the 320mm one from Garm ...or should I just go with a big brake kit ??? but Im not sure where to get them .

I happened to check ebay and found a lot of bigger caliper from other car ... is it applicable to our yaris ?? is it a simple bolt on or else ??? edumacate me please :biggrin:

[jouna]

you should just go with the big brake kit. personally i don't like to mess alot with brakes because that's the only thing that helps u at a curve

[vten]

do you know anyone selling them ? eventhough im not racing or auto x my car .... it's more for the look purpose .

I heard wilwood is making one for our yaris eh ?

[botchilah]

There are some Japanese brands that make a BBK for the Yaris like Endless (or was it Project U?) but these cost big bucks.

Before I once asked Stop Tech if they could make me a BBK (big brake kit) for my Evo IV. They had a BBK for the Evo VIII back then but they said they would have to actually have the car to size up the proper brake piston sizes so as to maintain the OEM brake bias and ensure that my hydrovac and brake master cylinder can sufficiently pump in enough brake fluid onto the calipers and get it to clam down hard enough on the rotors. Far more complicated than I had imagined.

Which leads me to my next point. You can basically fit almost any big brake caliper onto any car. All you need is a proper bracket to mount the caliper onto the hub but you'll never know if you are able to maximize the actual braking performance since our OEM brake master cylinder and hydrovac are not sized properly for just any bigger brake caliper. There might not be enough brake fluid being pumped into the brake caliper to clamp down hard on the rotors. Plus these big brakes weigh a lot too, a lot of unsprung weight in our Yaris, which is a relatively light car. This MIGHT affect the handling and overall performance more than any gains you would see on a BBK. Ok enough of the performance stuff.

For the looks, again like I said you can theoretically mount a junkyard big brake caliper onto your Yaris. All you need is ideally a spare wheel and hub assembly, access to a CNC machine to fabricate the brackets for the caliper onto the hub. It's easier to test fit the caliper and bracket on a spare hub and wheel assembly rather than trying it out on your own car right? :) My friend did that on his S14 Silvia: we had a spare set of Evo Brembo brakes. I think he initially fabricated the bracket either out of wood or a bunch of angle bars, then once he got the clearances right, he had a machine shop CNC machine him the final bracket. By the way, if you go this route, you will ideally use the matcing rotor from which the caliper was used in conjunction with.

Goodluck! Personally I would not take this route because there is little leeway for getting it wrong. You are endangering yourself and others if your custom BBK fabrication is poorly thought out and made.

So, stick with the complete BBK kits in my opinion at least hehehehe

[vten]

so I'll be getting that BBK from microimage for sure ...it comes with a braket ... I guess, that bracket is for our oem caliper right ? is a BBK caliper outhere has a universal bolting point ??

every BBK I searched consist of disc rotors, calipers, pads, brakets and stainless lines...so with microimage bbk kit that has rotors and brackets already, I just need the ss lines and the caliper it self right ( brembo caliper from ebay maybe ) ?

[mrbond]

The bracket is for the oem caliper for sure. I don't know yet what the bolt spacing on the Brembo caliper is, but I doubt it'll line up perfectly with the Microimage rotor. Plus, there's the clearance from one end of the caliper to the other that may need to be adjusted. When I get all these, I'll experiment with the clearances. Hopefully I won't need to have another bracket made. But if there's one that needs to be made, I'll have one made and keep the design for whoever wants to do the same, thus making it easier for everyone else.

vten, when you do get the BBK from Microimage, do you think you could take pictures of all sides of each of the components? It'll make researching a lot easier before I get the BBK myself.

[mrbond]

and vten, if you're interested, here's a pair of brand new Wilwood superlight calipers: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200346708730&indexURL=2 Not a bad price at all!
I'd get these, but I want Brembos.

[cali yaris]

The 320mm "BBK" I have is a bracket set and larger rotor. You keep your stock caliper and lines.

I know Laszlo on here has or had Rotora BBK in front, very nice but $2000 I think? :eek:

[mrbond]

^ Yeah, that's wayyyy too much to spend on one of those, IMO.

Hey Garm, is there a brand name for that BRK you sell?

[cali yaris]

It's probably also RunStop (like the rears), but I will check.

I guess I should order a few more kits, there seems to be some interest.

[vten]

wow that wilwood caliper is pretty good deal ..., but yeah I want brembo myself . can't wait for the bbk to get here, I'll snap a pic once I get them.

thanks for Garm for the killer products and price ...
these are my purchase for the month :P ... and will do it again very very soon for the rest
oh yah ..can't wait for my full exhaust setup tooo :evil::evil:

[PHXDEMON]

Not 100% positive this will bolt right up but I think this bbk might work.
http://www.fastscions.com/scion-xa-xb-greddy-big-brake-kit-front-15015652.aspx

[PHXDEMON]

also heres a wilwood kit. Once again for the XA so not 100% sure on fitment.

http://www.fastscions.com/scion-xa-xb-wilwood-superlite-4-piston-front-brake-kit-140-8335.aspx

[vten]

I just sent wilwood an email about the caliper and possibly a custom bracket for our car and waiting for them to reply.

Hopefully they will make them or the cheapest route for this... Is buying the brembo caliber cover and call it a day :D

Let see ...

[mrbond]

Well, you can get a used pair of Evo Brembo calipers (which were designed for a 320mm rotor - the same diameter of the rotor Garm sells btw), get them rebuilt if you want, and it'd be about 300 for everything, not including the adapter bracket.

[vten]

my 320 bbk will be here tomorrow. I'll let you know about the measurement... let's get the bbk project running :D

[mrbond]

For sure. vten, you live in ohio, right? If you do, perhaps we can meet up and work with your big rotor and my Brembo calipers and work on making a very competent big brake kit for a Yaris?

[vten]

yup, I live in columbus, Ohio.

I just received the front 320mm rotor...im happy now because it's bigger than the rear :biggrin: .... I would love to meet up with you, but my schedule is really tight , but we can work it out.

here's some more teaser :biggrin:

[mrbond]

Those are some mighty fine-looking pieces of metal.
I can't wait to get my Brembos and get this BBK started!
vten, as for working with our schedules, we'd only need about a day to figure this stuff out, and we can cut that time in half or more by getting some measurements of clearances and distances between mounting points. Btw, on this topic, do you have steel brake lines?

[Tamago]

show > go?

[vten]

cool, I'll let you know tomorrow about the mounting points ..... I don't have the ss brake lines yet, but It'll be on my next purchase from Garm.

so did you buy your brembo from ebay ? are they the mitsu evo setup ?

I Couldn't wait to get the project starting ....I even bought the brembo brake cover for the time being :briggin:

[mrbond]

show > go?

Well, mostly. I mean, isn't that the biggest reason for flashy, bright-colored, huge brakes? You and I both know that our stock brakes, outfitted with hella good pads and steel brake lines would perform just as well. Buuuuuut I want something that looks better.

vten - I did get the calipers from eBay, and they are from a Mitsu Evo, since the stock Evo discs are 320mm - the exact same diameter as Garm's big rotor kit. It was like $320 shipped. If you'd like, after I get these powdercoated and get all the seals and dust boots replaced, I could sell them to you for $200. I just want to be able to fab up one of these Brembo kits, keep the design for the adapter bracket, and build one at a slightly later date, like in October or something :thumbsup:

[Tamago]

i'm willing to 1-off brake caliper adaptors, but i'd need the calipers in-hand just to be fair.

either way, good luck on your "flashy" endeavor!

[mrbond]

^ I'll definitely be keeping this in mind, since I don't have access to any sort of machining equipment. Tamago, if I was able to provide you with many sketches from different angles of the required bracket, with accurate measurements, do you think you'd be able to fabricate the piece? I know it's probably not as easy as having the caliper in your hand, but we'd need to ship out the caliper and the rotor, since we don't know what the clearances on both ends of the caliper are yet.
This is a good amount of excitement for tonight. I'll talk to all y'all tomorrow, sitting at my computer at my boring ass job, doing nothing else but throwing paperclips into a cup.

[Tamago]

well the adaptor should only be on one plane. invest in a dial caliper before you take said measurements :)

[CASTREX]

Just a thought.... (hey Garm!!)

Wilwood 4 piston calipers $250
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Product-Line/Wilwood-Billet-Dynapro-Calipers/?keyword=wilwood

+ Pads $60-$100

+ Custom bracket adapter (pssst Tamago) $$???

+ Larger size rotors from R1 $120

+ SS lines ($100)

= Yaris kickass true BBK for +/- $600 ... :biggrin:

[kngrsll]

I used to have a big brake kit on my 240sx, it was one of the first mods i did because the 240 had tiny front brakes.

when i started racing, i sold them, rebuilt and put the stock ones back on, and bought Hawk HP+ pads, stainless lines, new brembo blanks, and motul fluid and my braking was a 100x better than when i used the big brake kit.

[mrbond]

Well, I'm super impatient waiting for these calipers to arrive. In the meantime, here's an amusing picture:
http://trimex.us/img/$rand/fat%20kid%20marshmallow%2002.jpg

[cali yaris]

that math is... interesting.

That's $570 not including Tamago's bracket, so maybe a minimum $670 cost and where's the profit for the company (me) willing to put all that together?

So, I think you'd be looking at a $800-900 BBK at least. Still not a bad idea!!

Wilwood 4 piston calipers $250
http://www.summitracing.com/search/P...eyword=wilwood
+ Pads $60-$100
+ Custom bracket adapter (pssst Tamago) $$???
+ Larger size rotors from R1 $120
+ SS lines ($100)
= Yaris kickass true BBK for +/- $600 ...

[mrbond]

Yeah, Garm, that's a SERIOUS discount from Ksport and Rotora kits. By, at the very least $400. And add about like $100 for custom powdercoating for those who want it :)

Do you think you'd also be interested in carrying an optional refurbished Brembo caliper pair?

[vten]

hooray ... Garm, please make this thing happen .... but please work on the adapter for the 320mm rotor as well ... I'll be your first custormer again for this :biggrin:

[vten]

I got a little excited .... this is what I have on my other toy ...thought it a nice thing to share :biggrin::biggrin:

[mrbond]

Just a thought.... (hey Garm!!)

Wilwood 4 piston calipers $250
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Product-Line/Wilwood-Billet-Dynapro-Calipers/?keyword=wilwood

+ Pads $60-$100

+ Custom bracket adapter (pssst Tamago) $$???

+ Larger size rotors from R1 $120

+ SS lines ($100)

= Yaris kickass true BBK for +/- $600 ... :biggrin:

Crap, I didn't want to be the person to rain on any parades, but...
I read on the product description that the $250 is for an individual caliper, so it'd be about $500 for the pair :(

[vten]

so it's more like this

Wilwood 4 piston calipers $500
+ Pads $100
+ Custom bracket adapter (pssst Tamago) $$???
+ 320mm rotors $400
+ SS lines ($100)
$1200 ???

[cali yaris]

^ correct, and thanks mrbond for the correction, rain keeps things clean :smile:

[CASTREX]

Crap, I didn't want to be the person to rain on any parades, but...
I read on the product description that the $250 is for an individual caliper, so it'd be about $500 for the pair :(

I guess your right...


But I just did a super quick search...

There are other good brands for quality multi piston calipers...

I'm sure that looking around and buying a few sets would bring the price down on everything...

Either way, my point is that we are really one custom bracket away... from having an affordable BBK.

You don't have to throw $2k on one.

[CASTREX]

Ok the math is back where we started...

here you go:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-6818/


4 piston Wilwoods for $125ea



PD: Garm, I'm getting a discount for the idea... lol

[fuji]

The Wilwoods appear to be reasonable in price - how difficult would it be to get these to work properly with our pre-existing brake system?

I hope whatexer comes about from this, it will fit in my 15" Enkei RPF1s.

[cali yaris]

pretty sure these will require larger rotors, so your 15's are going to be iffy.

[darthbauer]

pretty sure these will require larger rotors, so your 15's are going to be iffy.


+1! 15's and BBK's do not go together.

[fuji]

Oh well, I guess I will have to keep on looking. Perhaps some nice strong Camry calipers!

[mrbond]

+1! 15's and BBK's do not go together.

Unless it's the mini or micro bbk by Project Mu :P Then you can run 13 and 14" wheels

[TheRealEnth]

ok unless i didnt read thoroughly... excuse me, alright wilwood does have a 4pot brake kit for the yaris, so does endless.. unless you guys are talking about someone else?

[mrbond]

^ this is true, however you're going to be paying big big bucks for something you can piece together yourself for less.

[TheRealEnth]

ah kk

[SEVEN]

pretty sure these will require larger rotors, so your 15's are going to be iffy.

yeah thats what I read at the microimage store .... minimum 17's ... what can I do to add the most braking power with 15's????

thanks in advanced

[cali yaris]

For braking power, which means to me resistance to fade and stopping distance:

pads + lines + fluid

[kngrsll]

For braking power, which means to me resistance to fade and stopping distance:

pads + lines + fluid

This should be done before anyone even considers any brake job. Big brake kits have their place, but if you haven't done this set yet, how do you know you are using the full capacity of the braking system??! now cars that carry more weight (not us), race for hours on end (definately not us lol), or carry alot more speed (turbo cars, some of us!) could use more brake material.

Do you guys know the purpose of a big brake kit? no big brake kit will make you stop FASTER. The brakes are limited by the grip of the tire. What is the best brake upgrade then? TIRES!!! if you can lock up your tires while braking, the brakes are at FULL stopping capacity!! Does this make sense?

So why do people do big brake kits? well, i know i did it bc i thought it would make me stop faster, but i learned better. What a big brake kit really does is allows you to absorb more heat!! brakes are heat sinks! If you are tracking and using up all your brakes, and they cant cool quickly enough, you need to increase the air to them, or increase their heat capacity. So you can use more metal, or ducting. So big brake kits have a significant advantage in heat capacity, and that is ALL. that is their only advantage. They typically weight more (unsprung none the less), which slows you down if you are not overheating your stock brakes (doubtful.) They also cost alot. That money would be better spent at a track school and autoxes where you learn to drive what you have FASTER and then you are quicker no matter the car or equipment you own.

The list garm just posted will satisfy 99% of the braking needs for guys on this forum. I have tracked my car, autox'd it, and have had no brake issues (with stock pads and fluid with 60k miles on them!!) The car is so light, they are gentle on the brakes. This car is very easy on its brakes. In fact, i would almost worry that some of the high end temp pads that carbo tech offers through micro image could be tough to keep heat in! I may test this at the next event, do brake temps during a 20 min session and see what they peak at.

Now a rear disc upgrade, i would do that. Drums suck.

[cali yaris]

+1 and well said

[vten]

+2 ,

bbk for me is for the look purpose, since I'll be using 19" very very soon.

[SEVEN]

This should be done before anyone even considers any brake job. Big brake kits have their place, but if you haven't done this set yet, how do you know you are using the full capacity of the braking system??! now cars that carry more weight (not us), race for hours on end (definately not us lol), or carry alot more speed (turbo cars, some of us!) could use more brake material.

Do you guys know the purpose of a big brake kit? no big brake kit will make you stop FASTER. The brakes are limited by the grip of the tire. What is the best brake upgrade then? TIRES!!! if you can lock up your tires while braking, the brakes are at FULL stopping capacity!! Does this make sense?

So why do people do big brake kits? well, i know i did it bc i thought it would make me stop faster, but i learned better. What a big brake kit really does is allows you to absorb more heat!! brakes are heat sinks! If you are tracking and using up all your brakes, and they cant cool quickly enough, you need to increase the air to them, or increase their heat capacity. So you can use more metal, or ducting. So big brake kits have a significant advantage in heat capacity, and that is ALL. that is their only advantage. They typically weight more (unsprung none the less), which slows you down if you are not overheating your stock brakes (doubtful.) They also cost alot. That money would be better spent at a track school and autoxes where you learn to drive what you have FASTER and then you are quicker no matter the car or equipment you own.

The list garm just posted will satisfy 99% of the braking needs for guys on this forum. I have tracked my car, autox'd it, and have had no brake issues (with stock pads and fluid with 60k miles on them!!) The car is so light, they are gentle on the brakes. This car is very easy on its brakes. In fact, i would almost worry that some of the high end temp pads that carbo tech offers through micro image could be tough to keep heat in! I may test this at the next event, do brake temps during a 20 min session and see what they peak at.

Now a rear disc upgrade, i would do that. Drums suck.

I knew that brake capacity is only as good as the tires you use but this made things even clearer!! THANKS A LOT!!

[kngrsll]

I knew that brake capacity is only as good as the tires you use but this made things even clearer!! THANKS A LOT!!

good! glad to help!

[cali yaris]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-6818/

meanwhile, back to this idea. These calipers are way too thin for the Yaris rotor. I have now matched a 4-pot Wilwood caliper to the stock Yaris rotor and ordered a set. Did I mention I'm a Wilwood dealer now? heh. next is the brackets (one for stock + one for oversized rotors), then lines, and we are good to go.

[vten]

Garm,

which wilwood 4 pot are you using ?

put me on the list for the oversize setup ....:thumbup::thumbup:

Tan

[fuji]

This is going to be exciting to see on some 15" rims

[CASTREX]

Great!!

As many have said... the stock brakes on the Yaris are quite capable with just some small mods...

But who doesn't like the looks of a BBK?? :biggrin: And the added performance won't hurt the track folks... and if you add an affordable price tag to that mix... you have a winner!


I believe that the key to make this succesfull would be to limit the size to the largest rotor and caliper you can fit into a 15" rim....

You can probably fit a 1-1.5" oversize rotor on a 15 wheel.

[neo1985]

Garm.. a wilwood dealer now.. wow.. awsome!!