HIGH OCTANE FUELS

[intake]

anyone tried some high octane fuel?
i'm experiencing 10% fuel saving with a 98 octane fuel

[YarisOwnersDad]

Sono natto di note, ma non la scorsa note!

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

SUBSCRIBED and anxiously awaiting replies.

[detroiter]

Flame suit...check
waiting for what happens next...check

[marcus]

dejavu...is the 10% increase compensate for the extra cost of the fuel..?? just curious.

[Tamago]

ah yes



another thread about octane




3dayban for the OP?

[detroiter]

ah yes



another thread about octane




3dayban for the OP?



Come on now, lets not turn into a certain Rx7 forum that loves to go on a ban fest :)

[Tamago]

i've gotten banned for less here ;)

[detroiter]

Really? I'd like to hear about it.

[Tamago]

Really? I'd like to hear about it.

nope, in the interest of keeping yarisworld "better" i'll not bring it all up again

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

i've gotten banned for less here ;)

:laugh: smae here
Really? I'd like to hear about it.

id rather not risk the ban again.....

[Yar Is Word]

92 octane 2 mpg improvement

[marcus]

2 mpg improvement doesnt weight out the extra cost you get on a higher octane fuel. does it?

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

2 mpg improvement doesnt weight out the extra amount to get higher octane fuel. unless the extra octane in less than $2.00 extra then it will be.. aint it??

complete ENGLISH sentences would help us.....

[marcus]

oh sorry..updated..

[roxy1]

buy higher octane, believing mileage will increase. trying to prove it now driving more conscientiously. mileage increases. kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. not due to higher octane. no scientific explanation will explain higher mpg's from higher octane.

now im going to go:barf:.....on myself......as punishment for getting sucked into this ludicrous discussion.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Ah, another octane/gas thread. I'm going to stay out of this since it's been beaten to death with its own legs over and over and over.......and over again.

[Cosmonaut]

question that is somewhat ontopic. does the yaris advance timing until a set curve or until predet.

[Yaris Hilton]

AFAIK, all ECUs have a programmed curve for maximum advance at an optimal performance level, with a knock sensor that retards the spark a bit when detonation occurs.

[intake]

dejavu...is the 10% increase compensate for the extra cost of the fuel..?? just curious.

in my country the high octane fuel cost only 4% extra
here in italy we have 95, 98 and 100 octane fuel.
98 do not cost too much, only 4% more, but i'm experiencing 10% and more fuel saving.
100 octane is too much expensive, and it's used only by some rich people on ferrari

in the USA how much octane u have?

[Yaris Hilton]

We have a different rating method. Our 87, 89 and 91 octane ratings at the pump are comparable to your 95, 98 & 100.

[eTiMaGo]

actually there's about a 5 point difference :wink:

[IllusionX]

guys... keep in mind that higher octane fuel might have cleaning additives and possibly less E85 than regular fuel. This is just some reasons why you get better fuel economy with higher octane in an economy car like the yaris... that do NOT require premium.

[UTVitz]

More important to buy top tier fuels, i.e., quality from Chevron/Phillips and a few others than to play with octane, IMHO. Every mechanic I've talked to and a few were Toyota mechs. said don't waist you're money unless the manufacture recommends or sometimes specifies higher octane, or the engine is pinging. Hope this helps any fence sitters-I've been there myself.

[2009Toyotoad]

Maybe instead of MPG we should be looking at $ per mile. Just a thought. What I think we all want is the lowest cost of ownership, but I could be wrong.

[roxy1]

guys... keep in mind that higher octane fuel might have cleaning additives and possibly less E85 than regular fuel. This is just some reasons why you get better fuel economy with higher octane in an economy car like the yaris... that do NOT require premium.

is their any evidence higher octane fuels use less ethanol? ive seen more indications that higher quality fuels have the additives regardless of octane. i know for a fact the stations i use have cleaning additives in their 87 octane.

since there has been some consensus from more knowledgeable people that higher than 87 octane can actually reduce your mileage in the yaris (some forum members have already shown this to be so) then the lowest cost of ownership, fuel wise, doesnt even require any thought whatsoever.

Octane Myths
• High octane gasoline improves mileage.
In general, if your car is designed to run on 87 octane gasoline, high octane gasoline will not improve
mileage. If switching to high octane gasoline does improve mileage, you might find that your engine, or its
control systems, need repair.
• High octane gasoline gives quicker starting.
No, it doesn’t.
• High octane gasoline increases power.
If your car is designed to run on 87 octane gasoline, you shouldn’t notice any more power on high octane
gasoline. Again, if it does make a noticeable difference, your engine, or the engine’s electronic control
systems, may need repair.
• High octane gasoline has been refined more – it is just a better product.
Additional refining steps are used to increase the octane; however, these additional steps do not necessarily
make the gasoline a “better” product for all engines. They just yield a different blend of hydrocarbons that
burn more slowly. The additional steps also increase the price.

[intake]

the extreme advanced electronic management of the yaris can see wen you use high octane fuel, and change it's timing in spark plug lightining, so you have more power

[doublewam]

Ever since I filled my Yaris's tank with milk, I haven't had to fill it again...

...I haven't been able to go anywhere either.

[roxy1]

the extreme advanced electronic management of the yaris can see wen you use high octane fuel, and change it's timing in spark plug lightining, so you have more power

:confused:

[Yaris Hilton]

actually there's about a 5 point difference :wink:

Not so. The U.S. rating is the average of the Research and Motor octane numbers. The European numbers quoted above are Research Octane numbers.

[EdgarTRD1.8]

I think high octane fuel will not help on fuel economy, because the octane is the measure of the self evaporation of the fuel in comparison with the compression. Low compression cars use regularly regular fuel because the octane is low. If you put high octane fuel into a low compression combustion chamber, when the piston is compressing the air and the fuel, the fuel will not turn into gas stage completely. So will be liquid fuel yet on the chamber and when spark fire probably doesn't burn the fuel completely (the fuel burn in both stages, liquid and gas, but in gas stage burn faster than liquid stage). The engine will not work at high efficiency like will work if is burning the entire fuel. High compression and turbo applications need high octane fuel for the compression, higher compression turn the fuel in gas faster. If you use low octane fuel in high compression and turbo applications probably the fuel will self evaporate too fast and the piston will knock.

So if the car is not working at it high efficiency level i think it will not has fuel efficiency. The car will not work forced with this high octane "mood", but will not work like is suppose to do.

Some guys here in Puerto Rico tested them cars in a Dyno and proved that putting higher octane on the cars don't bring any HP gain, they proved with different octane booster and obtained no gains. You can use octane booster if your car has high aftermarket compression piston or turbo. I know you are talking about efficiency but I comment it for the explanation I put here is in the same way.

[jambo101]

I never did understand why people buy a cheap reliable economy car then spend $0.20 more per gallon to put in premium fuel on the mistaken assumption that its going to make the car go faster and get better mileage.If you wanted a faster car buying a Yaris is a poor choice.
PS,your premium gas may only be 4% higher than regular but over the life of the car that will amount to some serious unnecessarily spent money.

[andaconda]

buy higher octane, believing mileage will increase. trying to prove it now driving more conscientiously. mileage increases. kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. not due to higher octane. no scientific explanation will explain higher mpg's from higher octane.

now im going to go:barf:.....on myself......as punishment for getting sucked into this ludicrous discussion.

Well, I'll get sucked into this discussion:

At work I drive a 2005 Buick AWD van with a large v6 engine, and average between 5,000 and 6,000 miles a month. I have had time to 'experiment' with octane ratings. For two months I used premium grade gasoline and averaged 21.8 mpg. For two months I used the lowest grade and averaged 21.9 mpg. My trips are mostly highway miles with about 5% city driving. I cover the state from corner to corner so all my trips are about the same. I use mostly the same brand of fuel. The weather conditions were about the same when I 'experimented.' I drive fairly conservative with the work car just as I would with my own car.

I see no real difference between mileage and octane rating. The van must compensate for the octane and adjust accordingly. I notice no knock on any of the gasoline changes.

JUST my 2 cents worth.

[voodoo22]

I never did understand why people buy a cheap reliable economy car then spend $0.20 more per gallon to put in premium fuel on the mistaken assumption that its going to make the car go faster and get better mileage.If you wanted a faster car buying a Yaris is a poor choice.
PS,your premium gas may only be 4% higher than regular but over the life of the car that will amount to some serious unnecessarily spent money.

Like when my brother bought a $55k BMW and put in regular. What a tard.

[jambo101]

Like when my brother bought a $55k BMW and put in regular. What a tard.

My father in law had this strange habit of filling his pickup truck with the cheapest oil he could find usually the $0.75 a quart stuff and fill up his gas tank with the most expensive gas he could find.:iono:

[Marthos]

Octane is a rating, of a fuels ability to combust.

The higher the octane rating the harder it is to "burn" that fuel.

The higher the compression, the higher the octane needed.

When a low octane fuel is compressed to high it will self combust, causing preignition, that is when the fuel burns before the spark plug fires and the piston is on the downward power stroke.

A supercharged engine needs high octane fuel so the compression does not ingnite the fuel before the spark plug fires.

Always use the recomended fuel octane rating listed in the owners manual.

Only go up to a higher octane if you hear Pinging, as this can lead to major engine damage.

[Yaris Hilton]

Higher octane doesn't mean it's harder to burn, just that it's slower to autoignite when heated to a temperature where that can occur.

Preignition is different from detonation in that detonation occurs after the spark has fired, in the part of the fuel/air mixture that hasn't yet been reached by the expanding flame front from the spark. Preignition is caused by hot spots in the chamber igniting the fuel before the spark fires. High octane won't fix that.

[marcus]

i do higher octane only if im loading heavy stuff on a trip..

[Marthos]

Higher octane doesn't mean it's harder to burn, just that it's slower to autoignite when heated to a temperature where that can occur.

Preignition is different from detonation in that detonation occurs after the spark has fired, in the part of the fuel/air mixture that hasn't yet been reached by the expanding flame front from the spark. Preignition is caused by hot spots in the chamber igniting the fuel before the spark fires. High octane won't fix that.

Its just the way it was explained to me years ago in Auto Tech.
laymens terms was what i was going for.

This is from a wiki

"The octane rating is a measure of the resistance of gasoline and other fuels to detonation (engine knocking) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines."


Changed that to preignition.

[Yaris Hilton]

Usually when you hear pinging, you're hearing detonation. If it's preignition, something's wrong with the engine that needs fixing fast.

[RUFFSTUFF]

http://theserviceadvisor.com/octane.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

[Henry G.]

There is so much opinion and mis-information in this thread its ridiculous. Yaris Hilton is the only one giving facts IMO. 40 years ago they made muscle cars that had 10.5:1 CR and they required 98 octane fuel or higher. I know, I had one, a 1970 Mercury Cougar with the 4V 351 Cleveland engine.
How is it that today's Yaris and many other cars can run the same CR and not ping on 87? Computers and electronic ignition systems, knock sensors and micro-processors that constantly change the ignition curve. Run what you want, 87 is probably fine for most Marvin Milktoast drivers here with this roller skate car. HOWEVER, ignoring the driving conditions, driver habits, engine loading, engine temp, outside temps and humidity and making another "youre just wasting your money 87 octane is fine" ad nasuem post is another way of making your self feel better about putting Valero crap gas in your ride. Please dont knock someone who puts a quality oil or fuel in their car, and we wont call you a cheap bastard who rationalizes his actions. Toyota and other manufacturers know if they advise mid grade and premium fuel use for a cheap car like this they will lose business from all the tightwads, think about it.

[RUFFSTUFF]

In regards to pump gas... Premium is not a "higher quality" than regular. Don't let the name fool you. The bottom line is if it doesn't knock or ping on 87 under your driving conditons then the investment in 93 or higher is a poor one.

Hate to say it but the Yaris IS a cheap car and I love mine after 1 week. It's just too bad that some people are obviously smart enough to recognize a great vehicle but get lost in the minor details.

Hey Henry, didn't your 40 year old muscle car run on leaded fuel?

[Marthos]

There is so much opinion and mis-information in this thread its ridiculous. Yaris Hilton is the only one giving facts IMO. 40 years ago they made muscle cars that had 10.5:1 CR and they required 98 octane fuel or higher. I know, I had one, a 1970 Mercury Cougar with the 4V 351 Cleveland engine.
How is it that today's Yaris and many other cars can run the same CR and not ping on 87? Computers and electronic ignition systems, knock sensors and micro-processors that constantly change the ignition curve. Run what you want, 87 is probably fine for most Marvin Milktoast drivers here with this roller skate car. HOWEVER, ignoring the driving conditions, driver habits, engine loading, engine temp, outside temps and humidity and making another "youre just wasting your money 87 octane is fine" ad nasuem post is another way of making your self feel better about putting Valero crap gas in your ride. Please dont knock someone who puts a quality oil or fuel in their car, and we wont call you a cheap bastard who rationalizes his actions. Toyota and other manufacturers know if they advise mid grade and premium fuel use for a cheap car like this they will lose business from all the tightwads, think about it.

Got any pics of that coug? My 3rd fav car!

Here is my 2nd Fav!

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3264/roadrunner.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/roadrunner.jpg/)

I have some experiance with super/98 Octane, this car needed it.

This car doesn't.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1954/dsc06845z.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/dsc06845z.jpg/)

[Henry G.]

In regards to pump gas... Premium is not a "higher quality" than regular. Don't let the name fool you. The bottom line is if it doesn't knock or ping on 87 under your driving conditons then the investment in 93 or higher is a poor one.

Hate to say it but the Yaris IS a cheap car and I love mine after 1 week. It's just too bad that some people are obviously smart enough to recognize a great vehicle but get lost in the minor details.

Hey Henry, didn't your 40 year old muscle car run on leaded fuel?
Ruffy: I think you need to read the part about computers retarding ping before you hear it. Not hearing ping doesnt mean a damn thing. I would like anyone who knows what "ping" sounds like sound off if they have EVER heard their Yaris ping...
About Leaded fuel: Uh yeah thats all they had then. Whats your point, it was killing polar bears or something?
Not sure I would call .10 cents a gallon an investment. And yes there are some name brand gasolines that only put their top tier detergent/additive package in their premium...and in addition some top tier brands that have any decent additive package at all. But it appears it only takes one week to know everything there is about a new car unless I'm reading your post wrong.
I dont hate to say it...the Yaris is a CHEAP ASS CAR. But its also a damn good car drivetrain wise, worth that dime a gallon "investment". I hope I dont end up losing my house putting premium in my Yaris....:biggrin:
Marthos: I'll see if I can find a pic it was an XR7, fire engine red, with black vinyl top, a real looker...sweet Mo-Par BTW, 383?

[RUFFSTUFF]

*Comment withheld due to lack of interest.*

[Yaris Hilton]

Well yeah, there's a very slight ping I often hear from mine. If you're familiar with the sound and attuned to it, with ears that haven't been totally blasted out by loud music, you can hear it when the knock sensor does. It's nothing like the real knocking noise of damaging detonation.

[Marthos]

Marthos: I'll see if I can find a pic it was an XR7, fire engine red, with black vinyl top, a real looker...sweet Mo-Par BTW, 383?


Yes 383, 4-Speed, was my pops, he was the body man and i did the wrenching. Together we brought it back from the dead. We took turns driving, I was the only one who could pull away nice and slow without stalling, that car loved me!!! Pops passed and it got sold, 3 other brothers, we didnt wanna fight, mom got the money. I can still smell the rubber burning, and hear the old man laughing!

[Henry G.]

*Comment withheld due to lack of knowledge.*
Fixed.

[RUFFSTUFF]

Fixed.

This forum isn't bad. Only took me about a week to find the first total idiot. Congrats Henry G! It's good to see you can get some time away from taking loads for gas money to come join us here. Who needs dignity when you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose, right Henry?


Between your next "jobs," have someone read these links to you...


http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/premium/myths.html

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/transportation/consumer_tips/regular_vs_premium.html

http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/Mythsgas1.html

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fact-or-fiction-premium-g


This is just a sample... Google has plenty more.

[Henry G.]

This forum is full of googlemasters now we can add another...
So let me get this right. I knocked you for lack of knowledge...but now I cant read, don't have a job, dont have any money because I spend 2 dollars and week on premium gas and apparently am a male prostitute? Your a class act.
Why dont you try something, and report unbiased results like I did. Christ you would think being thrifty is a virtue and spending any amount of money no matter how small is a sin, so what religion is that? Jehovahs Cheapskates? I put in premium and got a solid 2 mpg improvement. I dont care what you buy, see if kerosene will burn in that thing I think Wallyworld has a sale on it right now...
Actually I was hoping for no change so I wouldnt have a reason to buy premium. BTW I'm now up to 36 mpg...

[RUFFSTUFF]

...but now I cant read, don't have a job, dont have any money because I spend 2 dollars and week on premium gas and apparently am a male prostitute?

Wow, I guess that would make you pretty busy... and overwhelmed.



Why dont you try something, and report unbiased results like I did.

Maybe I missed something, but I'm pretty sure at no time before your quoted post in this thread did you post ANY results... In fact in your first post, you were calling people "cheap bastards".


...I think Wallyworld has a sale on it right now...


Thanks for the tip... I get a discount there. It's good to know people in high places.


Are we having fun yet? :smoking:

[RUFFSTUFF]

This forum is full of googlemasters now we can add another...

That's GoogleMaster. Capitalization is important.

I'm going to pass on defending the use of references to support my opinion, if you happen to find one to support yours though, you may want to share it.

Maybe later we can get back on topic. :w00t:

[Henry G.]

Responding to your own posts now? Youre a troll. And a sensitive one at that.
I'm amazed that a person of your obvious powers of web-surfing did see this thread I started in this very forum, that YOU replied to with the parroted ad naseum reply "youre just wasting your money" blah blah blah....

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20281

Lets get back to cars. If I send you a couple dollars will you try premium and report back the results? I imagine its pretty hot there in Georgia this time of year, and you must be using the A/C. Why not try it instead of bagging on someone who did?
With your multi-quoting ability and grammar super-powers I presume you are a troll on other forums as well.....TROLL. I guess that "cheap bastard" thing really cut you to the bone....
Maybe you can enlighten us on the vast experience you have had with your car in the 2 weeks you have owned it.

[RUFFSTUFF]

...

Since it is obvious the art of name calling is your specialty (even more so than your knowledge of premium fuel), you calling me a troll reminded me of something I came across a long time ago, and I think it fits you perfectly. So to fully engage in a name calling war, I accept your troll declaration and return volley with, you are a CONTRARIAN TROLL. Just in case you are not familiar with the term, I'll share the definition...


The Contrarian Troll. A sophisticated breed, Contrarian Trolls frequent boards whose predominant opinions are contrary to their own. A forum dominated by those who support firearms and knife rights, for example, will invariably be visited by Contrarian Trolls espousing their beliefs in the benefits of gun control. It is important to distinguish between dissenters and actual Contrarian Trolls, however; the Contrarian is not categorized as a troll because of his or her dissenting opinions, but due to the manner in which he or she behaves:

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number One: The most important indicator of a poster's Contrarian Troll status is his constant use of subtle and not-so-subtle insults, a technique intended to make people angry. Contrarians will resist the urge to be insulting at first, but as their post count increases, they become more and more abusive of those with whom they disagree. Most often they initiate the insults in the course of what has been a civil, if heated, debate to that point.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Two: Constant references to the forum membership as monolithic. "You guys are all just [descriptor]." "You're a lynch mob." "You all just want to ridicule anyone who disagrees with you."

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Three: Intellectual dishonesty. This is only a mild indicator that is not limited to trolls, but Contrarians display it to a high degree. They will lie about things they've said, pull posts out of context in a manner that changes their meanings significantly, and generally ignore any points for which they have no ready answers.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Four: Accusing the accusers. When confronted with their trolling, trolls immediately respond that it is the accusers who are trolls (see Natural Predators). Often the Contrarian will single out his most vocal opponent and claim that while he can respect his other opponents, this one in particular is beneath his notice.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Five: Attempts to condescend. The Contrarian will seek refuge in condescending remarks that repeatedly scorn his or her critics as beneath notice – all the while continuing to respond to them.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Six: One distinctive mark of Contrarian Trolls is that every thread in which they dissent quickly devolves into a debate about who is trolling whom. In the course of such a debate the Contrarian will display many of the other Warning Signs mentioned above.

[Henry G.]

Ruffy youre a clever one, I've seen your type before on the internet. Here's the common M.O.:
You work your way into a board, make a couple introductory posts while of course making yourself look good (the bragging about how you chewed the dealer way down below invoice) and then target an opinionated and likely easy target (me). You then post the opposite opinion, politely of course only at first, provide a reference or two to back your claim, meanwhile not providing any actual information gleaned from your personal experience, or relative to the subject at hand. When the victim "takes the bait" and engages even remotely in any kind of name calling (cheap bastard, which I did not specifically call you) you spring into action as the offended but above it all intellectual, still not talking about the subject, or any personal experience.
Then you set your trap: You engage in name calling even worse (the not so subtle personal reference to my employement or lack thereof, the reading thing and sucking a golf ball thing) which of course will drive the victim into making outrageous and violent threats, condescending and illogical remarks way off topic, thereby publicly confirming the victims total lack of intellectual and emotional stability (so how did that go?)
Then (boy this is getting complicated) YOU post the rules that define how this whole thing should be really interpreted by others which of course is an elaborate spider web which should polish off the victim for good. This is acheived because the rules state that if the victim refutes any of the rules or name calling, he is of course fits that description perfectly and is "trolling". By this time you still have yet to provide any valid observations, personal experiences or information, have ignored that many of the things that you have in fact said is hypocritical crap that violate your own rules and fit your own provided definitions of the sophisticated villian name you chose to bestow on me (Contrarian Troll?; I think some band geek called me that in 7th grade or was that in a game of D&D?). SO it is with great honor that I gloriously take the slap in the face with your imported Corinthian leather glove, and respond: TROLL!
Go Dodgers!!

[eTiMaGo]

all right children, that's enough, this thread has nothing to do with fuel anymore :rolleyes: