195/55 slowed my car down

[scape]

8(

feels like someone is sitting in the passenger seat now, if y'all know what I mean...
I looked it up, and these new tires do not weight very much (17lbs from tirerack), however I do think that the tires that get stocked for new yaris' aren't necessarily the same exact as what tire resellers get. let me explain...

I looked on bridgestone's site and the tire weight of re92's for 185/60/15 is 17lbs for yaris, and 205/55/15 (celica) is 15 lbs (http://www.bridgestonetire.com/tireselector/SizeSpecs_BS_EN.aspx?Product_ID=8 ) ...tirerack(which I contemplated being incorrect) went with generic sizes and not car specific, but the same tires pull up 18lbs and 19 lbs (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Bridgestone&model=Potenza+RE92&partnum=86TR5RE92V2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&place=2)...

so I emailed bridgestone to figure this out: "the tire weights for re92's seems inaccurate. 205/55/15 is 15 lbs, while 195/55/15 is 19...also these are all whole numbers, if the actual weight was expressed as say 15.9, that would be beneficial as that is much closer to 16 lbs worth of tire and worth noting."

reply: "The Potenza RE92 is an original equipment tire. Therefore, the specs are set according to the vehicle and vehicle manufacturer specs. So, you could possibly have the same size tire with very different or slightly different specs and/or weights."

so it becomes apparent that the light tire is sold as oem, but it may be impossible to actually get that same tire again...

but I guess this misinformation isn't new, b/c general's site claims my tires are 16lbs a pop (http://www.generaltire.com/tires/T1/Exclaim-UHP)...which somehow i doubt from the feeling of things

-just thought I'd vent this one out :D

[Sabretooth]

Even though the weight is less, you increased the amount of tread that is on the ground. Which in turn increased your contact with the road, if your running the same rim, and same weight tire, your adding more friction with the road.

This means your car is using more energy to move the tires since there is a larger surface area to move. On the flipside, you increased your surface area to the ground, so your handling should be a bit better, depending on the tire.

[scape]

handling's great, but i had no idea that that amount of friction could do this; drastically different :(
i wouldn't want to know what a 205 feels like, haha

[Sabretooth]

205's arent bad, it all depends on what kind of weight difference between OEM tires/rims, compared to the new stuff. If you end up with a lighter tire, then a lighter rim. Overall your performance should be better. Most people focus too much on rim weight when it is just as easy to splurge on a good tire, then only to realize it weighs more than the tires you had before, which can throw away any and all gains you made with the weight reduction of the rim.

It all plays out, I figured MY Yaris will never be able to blow the doors off a car in a straight line, so the sacrifice of the larger tire for a much better handling feel.

[Thirty-Nine]

I've run 185s, 195s, and 205s on my Yaris and was never able to tell any difference, personally. I've got 195/55/15 tires on now.

[kimona]

I run 205/50/16's, and I notice no significant difference whatsoever over stock 15's... except of course the car handles remarkably better now.

Check the diameter of stock vs. your replacement size tyre:

185/60/15 = 23.7
195/55/15 = 23.4

[scape]

could something else be wrong? it feels much more sluggish, to the point that I've stalled in first twice in 2 days, which almost never happened...

[Tamago]

what are your tire pressures?

[scape]

i'll have to go check them, they look well inflated-- and i did just get them put on two days ago so I imagine the tire installers did things properly

[Tamago]

i'll have to go check them, they look well inflated-- and i did just get them put on two days ago so I imagine the tire installers did things properly

fyi 32 psi is not enough

[Thirty-Nine]

fyi 32 psi is not enough

Really? I'm running 32 PSI in my 195/55/15 ...

[scape]

i'm almost certain these were setup at 32psi, but i'll double check... what would you recommend?

[Tamago]

i'm almost certain these were setup at 32psi, but i'll double check... what would you recommend?

depending on how much of your rear interior is, i'd recommend 36 up front and 32 in the rear.

[scape]

would higher front wheel pressure increase understeer?

[bdc87]

I had a feeling similar to yours when I had 195's. Got better grip but felt as more weight had been added cause of the friction. I'm now going to a 175 on a 14" rim. The tires weigh a little over 15lbs, should be interesting.

[Tamago]

would higher front wheel pressure increase understeer?

it depends. there's a fine line of grip that's very pressure sensitive. if you want the car to rotate better, definitely run the same pressure all around. remember your car is 60/40 weight split so adjusting tire pressures keeping this split in mind will help you change the overall handling of the car.

[Loren]

Tire pressures are a funny thing and very dependent on the car and tire.

Raising tire pressure can increase the effective "spring rate" of the tire, which is a part of your overall spring rate. Stiffer in the front = more understeer... in theory. The effect is much less on a performance tire with a really stiff sidewall, though. Those tires are stiff no matter what you do. The pleasant side-effect of stiffer tires or more pressure in the front tires is greater steering sharpness.

Raising the tire pressure can cause the tread of the tire to "crown", reducing the size of the contact patch. Again, less contact patch in the front = more understeer... in theory. But, again, a performance tire is likely to have so much radial reinforcement of the tread area that it will stay pretty flat no matter what.

On a FWD car or a heavy car, a more important thing to look at is how much pressure is required to keep the tires from rolling over onto the sidewall. This will over-rule the two items above in most cases.

Ultimately, you want to optimize the contact patch of the tire so that the entire surface of the tread is being used and yielding equal temps across the tire tread. The only way to tune that is with a pyrometer and skidpad testing. But, even then, unless you're willing to make some drastic changes to your suspension, you'll never reach that ideal.

Best thing most people can do is just air the front tires up until they don't roll over past the edge of the tread (there's usually a set of little arrows that mark the max rollover point) in hard cornering. That's going to vary greatly according to what tires and wheels you have, what alignment you have, and how hard you tend to corner.

[HTM Yaris]

I have 195/55/15 . For everyday stuff its 32 psi all the way around . For the Dragon its 34 psi all the way around . Not only do I rotate ,but I also "flip" tires when applicable . I also still have the original Goodyears that came with the car when I bought the car in 06 . I use the original tires from October to March b/c I do alot of offroad ( dirt driving ) . When I bought my second Yaris ( 09 ) I made the dealer switch the Bridgestones for the Goodyears . I think GY are better than the BS for year round everyday driving .

[SailDesign]

I think GY are better than the BS for year round everyday driving .

Having had the BS (aptly named) on my -07, and the GY on the new 09 (just like you) I can definitely say that the GoodYears are WAY better in the wet, prolly way better i nthe snow, too, although I haven't been able to check that yet.

[scape]

the bridgestones were terrible in wet, and I live in what is apparently now a rainforest, lol.
thanks for the replies, i'll keep this all in mind

[Tamago]

did you check your pressures yet?

[scape]

i'm going to pick up a tpg today, the irish pub was calling me yesterday ;D

[Tamago]

i'm going to pick up a tpg today, the irish pub was calling me yesterday ;D

haha the one downtown?

[scape]

korrigans on powerline, pretty cool place actually; i've given up on downtown, haha

[Tamago]

korrigans on powerline, pretty cool place actually; i've given up on downtown, haha

any place that has guinness has my respect :wub:

[Shroomster]

(there's usually a set of little arrows that mark the max rollover point) in hard cornering.

I could've sworn those marks were to visual aid the tread wear indicators...

at least that's what i figured the michelin men are for all along the shoulder.

[scape]

i think i'm finally getting used to the new tires-- the grip is unbelievable compared to stock, and I gotta say, GT exclaims perform awesome in wet, really confidence inspiring.
I drove 2 miles and parked my car for 1.5 hours, then checked the air pressure (it was a very hot day in the 90's) and the air pressure read:

34 fl, 37 fr
37 rl, 36 rr

I'm going to get a better reading in a morning test, that way I know how much to adjust by, but I thought it was unusual that the pressure was well above 32, I hardly drove it that day.

[Loren]

Scape, nothing against you here, but this is a perfect example of how things like the tire survey data on the Tire Rack website should be weighed carefully. You're calling the GT Exclaim "awesome" and "confidence" inspiring where a person who has experienced a much BETTER tire would merely call them "adequate" and "not horrible".

How good a tire is depends greatly on what you're comparing it to, and there are far better tires out there than anything made by General and/or any all-season tire. You've acquired another data point... now next time spring for a really good set of "summer" tires with good rain characteristics. (you live in SFL, you don't need all season tires) They'll cost a little more, but they will blow you away with their grip and responsiveness wet or dry.

Tire temperature gets up to it's operating level pretty quickly. A mile or two will do it, especially at speeds over 45ish. Want to see how sensitive tire pressures are to temp? Set all four tires to even pressure in the shade early in the morning (cold). Then park the car where one side of the car is in the sun. See if you don't see at least 2 degrees higher temps on the sunny side in a couple hours.

[Tamago]

also remember that excessive braking warms up your wheel and will keep "heat" in the tire for quite some time following.

[scape]

Scape, nothing against you here, but this is a perfect example of how things like the tire survey data on the Tire Rack website should be weighed carefully. You're calling the GT Exclaim "awesome" and "confidence" inspiring where a person who has experienced a much BETTER tire would merely call them "adequate" and "not horrible".

How good a tire is depends greatly on what you're comparing it to, and there are far better tires out there than anything made by General and/or any all-season tire. You've acquired another data point... now next time spring for a really good set of "summer" tires with good rain characteristics. (you live in SFL, you don't need all season tires) They'll cost a little more, but they will blow you away with their grip and responsiveness wet or dry.

Tire temperature gets up to it's operating level pretty quickly. A mile or two will do it, especially at speeds over 45ish. Want to see how sensitive tire pressures are to temp? Set all four tires to even pressure in the shade early in the morning (cold). Then park the car where one side of the car is in the sun. See if you don't see at least 2 degrees higher temps on the sunny side in a couple hours.

exactly my point. this was not a comparison to every tire, but simply a tire that I find cheap and great at the same time. these tires blow away the re92's, and that was my sole comparison.
have you used these tires, by any chance?

[Loren]

exactly my point. this was not a comparison to every tire, but simply a tire that I find cheap and great at the same time. these tires blow away the re92's, and that was my sole comparison.
have you used these tires, by any chance?
Nope, never used them. I did have RE92's as OE tires on a 1993 Geo Metro... how's that for an indication of how out-of-date those tires are? :wink:

There are all-season tires, and there are better all-season tires... but no all-season tire ever compares to a good summer performance tire. (unless you're driving in the snow or temperatures below about 40 degrees) Every tire is a compromise between factors like treadwear, noise, dry traction, wet traction, snow traction, ride comfort, cost... and probably a few other things. The typical all-season tire strives to be "okay" at all of those things, but can't "really good" at any of them because it's just not possible.

[Tamago]

i'm HATING my all season AST's :( wish my wallet had been thicker, i would have re-purchased RS2's as my street tire. or some R888's :D

[Sabretooth]

I am going to get shoed into a set of RS2's when my old tires kick it (3 months or so from now). Just still debating to stick with my 50 profile or go with a smaller sidewall (45)

[Tamago]

225-45-15 FTMFW!! :)

[Thirty-Nine]

i'm HATING my all season AST's :( wish my wallet had been thicker, i would have re-purchased RS2's as my street tire. or some R888's :D

I hated my ASTs, too.

I like my Falken 912s for a daily-driving tire. Unfortunately, it gets cold enough here in Oregon to use an all-season tire.

I now have a set of studded snow tires, though, so theoretically, I could run the studs during the winter and the alloys with summer tires during the nicer months. However, I just hate running steelies; I need a second set of alloys w/winter rubber.

[kngrsll]

i love the dunlop star specs... GREAT tire, and cheap!

[Loren]

i love the dunlop star specs... GREAT tire, and cheap!

Now THAT is a tire. :headbang:

[kngrsll]

Now THAT is a tire. :headbang:

we are so lucky when it comes to tire selection now... ive heard the XS by kumho is even a little better than the dunlop!

[Tamago]

Now THAT is a tire. :headbang:

i shied away because the predecessor to the Direzza star spec (the DZ101) was garbage.. but i'm willing to try them i suppose, as long as they make a 225 50 15 or 225 45 15

but IMO hoosier > all!

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/fatherdutami/AutoX_Homestead_071507_1.jpg?t=1245115023

[Loren]

The Direzza series has a lot of tires of varying levels of performance. Equate it to BFG's "Potenza" line... a WIDE variety of tires, not all of them are as good at the RE-01 or the new RE-11 (or whatever it is). Trust me, the Star Spec is one of the top 3 available REAL street tires on the market today. Hoosiers don't count, they won't last 1,000 miles on the street and were never intended for street use.

[Tamago]

they won't last 1,000 miles on the street and were never intended for street use.

i actually got over 1000 miles out of a set of hoosiers :)

[Loren]

i actually got over 1000 miles out of a set of hoosiers :)
On the street?

[Tamago]

On the street?

yup.

[Loren]

I know people who have run Toyo RA1's, Kumho Victoracers, and a few other "long wearing" autocross/race tires on the street... but you're the first I've heard of anyone ever using Hoosiers on the street. Hey, I've got an idea... since you obviously have money to burn, why don't you sponsor me? :biggrin:

[Tamago]

I know people who have run Toyo RA1's, Kumho Victoracers, and a few other "long wearing" autocross/race tires on the street... but you're the first I've heard of anyone ever using Hoosiers on the street. Hey, I've got an idea... since you obviously have money to burn, why don't you sponsor me? :biggrin:

i buy my r6's used.

[kngrsll]

i buy my r6's used.

i dont think ill ever buy new hoosiers.

[scape]

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/fatherdutami/AutoX_Homestead_071507_1.jpg?t=1245115023

that you in that pic?

[Tamago]

that you in that pic?

my car yes, me driving, no, my friend Liz was driving for that shot (i wear a white helmet)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/fatherdutami/Autocross/MorosoAXJoel1.jpg

[SailDesign]

i dont think ill ever buy new hoosiers.

You can get them new? WOW! Never seen one. :biggrin:

[Tamago]

You can get them new? WOW! Never seen one. :biggrin:

www.tirerape.com sells them i believe

[SailDesign]

www.tirerape.com sells them i believe

:biggrin::clap:

Both my boys autocross and rallycross, and get all their tires used from friends.

[scape]

ok, so at cool temperatures, the tires were all more or less 35psi this morning. when they are warmed up, they drive a lot better, I'm wondering if I should keep them at 35, eventhough they recommend 32 for the car, or even go up to 36 (the tires max psi is like 50 or something obscene).

[SailDesign]

ok, so at cool temperatures, the tires were all more or less 35psi this morning. when they are warmed up, they drive a lot better, I'm wondering if I should keep them at 35, eventhough they recommend 32 for the car, or even go up to 36 (the tires max psi is like 50 or something obscene).

I have to admit I have the OEM tires at 36 cold right now. It seems to be about right for the way I drive.
On the old car, with 205/45-16 rubber, I had them all at 42.

YMMV

[nsmitchell]

I'm using 195/60R15 tires. Michelin HydroEdge. I think my MPGs have dropped slightly from when I was running the stock tires. The trade off is more grip for stopping and cornering and wet traction is just incredible. I <3 my HydroEdge tires!