Camshafts?

[Nexus1155]

Ok, so I do not quite get this from everyone who i use to keep hearing that cams won't bring any new power?

The NA car in Siphon had new cams which made power so why not our 1nz-fe?

Has this engine ever been flowtested? or has someone just had a simple regrind of what they thought would work and it didn't?

I never saw anyones proof on this matter, especially for our turbo brethren wanting more? GARM!!!!!

But seriously, wheres the proof on this?

[06silveryaris]

cams make power regrinds or not, a aggresive lift and duration set up will help a turbo or n/a engine. I have to see any for the yaris here in pr but i am sure people are doing regrind because there are a few turbo echos and yaris around and going fast.

[06silveryaris]

it seems this guy is using factory cams I thought he had aftermarket after doing some research he claims it is a stock motor. Besides the turbo ect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edx3D42A3Wg

[Nexus1155]

thanks for posting up, yeah i am sure there is something to be had, even with a stock head. The link didn't work by the way

[06silveryaris]

thanks for posting up, yeah i am sure there is something to be had, even with a stock head. The link didn't work by the way

try it now

[Tamago]

any more specs on the build?

[06silveryaris]

not really I can look into it, but later i have to go back to work:mad:

[clappitty]

shot them an E-Mail. thanks for the link Cali

Glad I joined up on YW today.

Still need to read up on the few turbo builds.

[cdydjded]

Ok, so I do not quite get this from everyone who i use to keep hearing that cams won't bring any new power?
No one here has changed their cams in there Yaris, so you are getting opinions from people with no experiance on the matter
The NA car in Siphon had new cams which made power so why not our 1nz-fe?
Are you speaking of the one from Japan?
Has this engine ever been flowtested?
Engines do not get flow tested, cylinder heads do
or has someone just had a simple regrind of what they thought would work and it didn't?
Go here o learn about regrinding: http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/099804.html

[PHXDEMON]

Wonder how expensive those head packages are :drool:

[blacksandiegovitz]

Wonder how expensive those head packages are :drool:

around 1500-1700 depending on your core returns/shipping distance , I've looked into it...

[Nexus1155]

Honestly, I'm not sure of the specs on the stock cam. But I do have the specs on the regrind from Gude. If I had to guess, the only real change is probably duration. I don't understand how they could get more lift out of a stock cam. Not if all they are doing is taking material off. My understanding is that on a regrind you can change the lobe profile in order to have longer or shorter duration as well as a more or less aggressive opening of the valves.

Anyway, here are the specs on the Gude Cams...
Part Number: SCXBS01
Intake Cam: Lift - 0.420, Duration - 238
Exhaust Cam: Lift - 0.400. Duration - 238
According to the Gude website they include racing springs and shims, the power band is from 3500 - 8000 rpm and the idle is "good."

And as long as we are talking about Gude, they also sell a ported stock throttle body.
Part Number: N/A
Max Dia. @ Taper: 53.3mm
Dia. @ Butterfly: 47.0mm


Heres the dyno from the gude worked on engine with a very rich afr, if you lean it out you should be making more power

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd85/IowaSciontist/GRAPH_FOR_Tim_Hansons_Xb_BASELINE_O.jpg

295 intake/285 exhaust cam was the specs from the siphon car..

Who has an extra $400+ cash for mods and doesn't mind a week downtime and wants to try this!!

So to get good NA power out of this we are saying, cam regrind, and raise compression, and 1zz throttle body? to keep everything low cost. because I think i remember someone who was working over the head said the head wasn't really restricted to begin with and is well crafted..

[turboecho2005]

I know a guy who has been doing cam grinds for years and years. if you guys are very interested in them i can inquire. but just to let you know that the power you'll get verus the price you pay won't be worth it. Usually factory cams work well on a turbo'd car. I don't ever plan on changing mine...

[cali yaris]

+1. We tried twice to do the cams on my tC and it lost power both times. Rado's Time Attack car has stock cams in it. I know that's a 2.4L but it serves as evidence.

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

the guy from california who works for junction produce(don't know username) supposedly has the GUDE package on his car......

[turboecho2005]

i sent an email out to an old friend who does cams. he actually got back to me in 15 minutes! which is amazing cause its canada day. I gave him specs on the stock duration and lift and valve angle. he said he'll do some research and see what he can do. If its doable he'd need a cylinder head with stock cams for exact measurements.

[Yaris Hilton]

Usually factory cams work well on a turbo'd car. Agreed.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have the specs on the stock cams for the 1NZ-FE?

[cali yaris]

^ see the post before yours, apparently turboecho has the specs.

Post them up, turboecho

[Yaris Hilton]

OIC! Could you post them, just for grins?

[Nexus1155]

well both cams from gude and siphon car have different values for the duration but the lift is prob the same. This is the conundrum here, I am sure there is something to be had from this, but i mean its no American engine that you can gain like 50+ hp from cams, thats just not going to happen...

[turboecho2005]

-1495 cubic centimeters
-75.0mm bore
-84.7mm (3.33-in) stroke
-dual overhead camshafts
(4 valves per cylinder via shimless bucket type tappets)
-valves inclined at 33.5°
-vane type VVT-i continuously variable intake valve timing device.
-valve diameters:
30.5 mm (1.20 in) for intake
25.5 mm (1.00 in) for exhast.
-cylinder block: aluminum with cast-in iron liners.
-cylinder and crankshaft centers are offset to reduce piston slapping.
-the NZ engine is placed transversely, canted rearward, with the intake side facing forward.
-the 1NZ-FE 1.5-L puts out 81 kW (110 hp) at 6000 rpm and 143 N•m (105 lb•ft) at 4200 rpm.

I believe these are the factory specs... anyone fee free to correct it. i had taken this from scionlife. I don't have duration or lift though... but i think mike (the guy who grinds cams) found them.

he feels he can grind a cam to make some good power for the 1nzfe... like i said i'll keep people updated...

[Nexus1155]

Keep us updated TE! I would love to try to open up some new power on this car without FI. It currently has a 10.5:1 compression ratio. Bumping it up to 11.0:1 with decking and with the cams and some other minor mods we should have some good power out of this tiny little engine!

[cali yaris]

A more powerful N/A Yaris would be fun. I've considered doing an N/A motor with the stock one that just came out of my car. I already have the management in place, so it woudn't be too hard to do.

Nexus, what are you going to do to manage your motor?

[Nexus1155]

Yeah I just hope the NA engine makes some good power too... I haven't thought about management yet, if anything i will either do an Emanage Blue for an easy way out, or if my buddy figures out the 1NZ ECU then I will flash it.

Its either this or nitrous so it can be deactivated so...

I think boosting in the winter will be really crappy with a FWD car so thats why I am opting for this instead..

[turboecho2005]

I am still on him. He has this thread link. We can only hope he can make them for everyone. As soon as i know.. you guys will know.

[cali yaris]

I have two NOS kits for sale, FYI. In the classifieds section

[suprf1y]

OK guys, I'm the cam guy TE was talking about.
I have specialized in Suzuki, and to a lesser extent, Isuzu cams for the last 6, or 7 years, and will grind just about anything, as long as I am comfortable that what I am doing will provide with you are looking for.
The difference between me, and most custom grinders is that I have been building motors for over 30 years. I have a pretty good handle on what most motors want for different applications, and I take the time to find out how each profile will work in each situation. I almost always insist on degreeing the stock cams in the intended cylinder head. Once I am familiar with the valvetrain, and geometry, I will start working on a profile. To give you an idea why this matters, in one of the Suzuki motors, grind the intake lobe, and the rocker ratio quickly jumps up .2 points. Grind the exhaust lobe, and you lose .1 point. I have customers with these motors that have had cams ground by major custom shops that just don't work. About 16 hours of development, and I have profiles for that motor that range from mild, to wild, and they work.

If you are interested in cams I will work with you, but understand that I am not familiar with the valvetrain in the motors, so you guys will have to work with me. I will need a head, a set of cams, and timing sprockets to do some degreeing. I will not charge for development, and I will not sell you something that I believe will not work.

And for the record, TE, there is no worse cam for a turbo, or SC application than the stock cams. Its all about airflow. You turbo to make power, yet you run the stock restrictive, low lift, (very) short duration cams. You cam for your intended powerband, and RPM range, regardless of turbo, or not.
You're familiar with the factory turbo cars. On mine, with stock cam, I was running 25 psi boost. Once I put in a mild performance cam, all I could make, with wastegate disconnected, was 15 psi. Why? The motor was now flowing so much air (and making so much power), the little turbo could not flow enough to build the higher pressure. More airflow, more power, at less pressure (heat). Its all good :thumbup:

[turboecho2005]

Thanks for joining mike!

I look forward to seeing what you can make for these motors. You know more abouts cams then i do!

Lets see if someone on this forum wants to get some cams made :) Garm?

[Parmas]

Seems a good idea although that depends the cost of the work done. Also I think one might need an upgraded engine management since the stock ecu can't handle the modified cams.

Interesting info there mike!

[suprf1y]

The two biggest concerns are always, the price, and will it work with the fuel management?

The price would be under $300 per pair, and my goal ultimately, would be to develop something that would work with your stock ECU. Most people are looking for a little more performance, but few have the resources to buy, install, and tune an aftermarket fuel management system.
The Suzuki application I mentioned, with the goofy rocker arm ratios, is OBD II, and the grinds that I developed work fine with the stock ECU.

My estimate, is that the stock cams have low lift, in the .300 range, and duration (at .050") in the 180 range. These are very conservative numbers, but leave considerable room for improvement.

So what I need to know is, where else was the motor used? Will it be possible to get cores from an earlier application (these cars are too new to find in the yards, or core suppliers)? Does anybody have an interest in sending me a head, with cams to do the development?

BTW, I do offer cylinder head packages which include rebuild, porting, decking (machine for compression) O ringing, if required, and cams. I stock 1 pc polished SS valves for the Suzukis, in stock and oversizes.
I will see if I can source the same for the Yaris motor.

[eTiMaGo]

In Canada, you ought to be able to get your hands on the old Echo, it's been there for years and uses the 1NZ-FE too :smile:

[turboecho2005]

They started production in 1999 so our motors are 10 years old. Someone must have a spare head kicking around to let mike do some R&D

[Nexus1155]

I know someone who has one, but it might be bare, so i'll check!

[Tamago]

yes, it's bare

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10614

[Parmas]

I have a complete 2NZFE that was previously in car. Most components match the 1NZFE and all cyclinder head + components are alike. Although I might be interested, I live in europe and it will be costly to ship it to CA.

[suprf1y]

OK, so it looks like its a bucket style lifter, no rocker.
Hydraulic, or solid lifters?

[cali yaris]

I have a set of stock cams (right Tamago? LOL).

I also have a head, but the shipping will kill us.

[jkuchta]

OK, so it looks like its a bucket style lifter, no rocker.
Hydraulic, or solid lifters?


I'm pretty sure they're solid shim-over-bucket lifters, with the exhaust cam timing being fixed and the intake cam timing being variable.

[eTiMaGo]

you might find more information in here:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54&d=1137530385

[eTiMaGo]

I'm pretty sure they're solid shim-over-bucket lifters, with the exhaust cam timing being fixed and the intake cam timing being variable.

after reading that PDF again, they are shimless buckets, i.e. to adjust valve lift, you swap for thicker buckets from Toyota...

[suprf1y]

Well that pretty much makes it difficult, and unaffordable.
If I had to weld the cores, then grind them to maintain your stock lifter setup, that would make it too expensive.
Sorry guys.

[turboecho2005]

Thanks for trying mike!

[cali yaris]

let's keep the discussion open, this is super informative for me, and probably for others.

If Mike is willing?

So when someone like GUDE sells cams for our cars, what exactly did they make then?

[kngrsll]

i would love a set of NA cam regrinds

[cali yaris]

Doesn't post #41 indicate that you can't do a simple regrind? .. I'm a bit over my head on the technical part of this.

[jkuchta]

Well that pretty much makes it difficult, and unaffordable.
If I had to weld the cores, then grind them to maintain your stock lifter setup, that would make it too expensive.
Sorry guys.

I'm pretty sure the buckets aren't that expensive.

Wouldn't it be possible to offset grind the cams on their base circles and then use thicker buckets to take up the slack, thereby giving you more lift without running into coil bind?

[yaris-me]

I'm pretty sure the buckets aren't that expensive.

Wouldn't it be possible to offset grind the cams on their base circles and then use thicker buckets to take up the slack, thereby giving you more lift without running into coil bind?

I don't think you want more lift. With VVTi you might end up hitting the piston.

You have four valves already. Wouldn't better intake and exhaust manifolds with porting give more reliable results?:iono:

[jkuchta]

It could, though higher lift/more duration would also make for better results with an intake and exhaust. Somone will have to measure the "worst case" valve clearance of this motor to be able to tell how crazy you can get on the 1NZ without the valves beating all of the pretty off the pistons, though with lower compression (hint Garm), there'd be even more room for lift, as the piston is either going to be flycut or dished to drop the compression, which would yield more lift potential.

[CDavis7M]

I believe that the 1NZ-FE motor is a non-interference design. So, hitting the pistons should not be an issue.

It might be possible to ditch vvti to help with tuning, however, that is a whole other issue. And having an exhaust cam alone might not be worth the hassle.

[Tamago]

I believe that the 1NZ-FE motor is a non-interference design. So, hitting the pistons should not be an issue.

It might be possible to ditch vvti to help with tuning, however, that is a whole other issue. And having an exhaust cam alone might not be worth the hassle.

the 1nz an interference engine.

ditching the VVTI is by far the worst thing you could do to the 1nz

[CDavis7M]

the 1nz an interference engine.


My mistake. Now I see the reference to the valves hitting the pistons in the Service Manual.

[suprf1y]

I'm pretty sure the buckets aren't that expensive.

Wouldn't it be possible to offset grind the cams on their base circles and then use thicker buckets to take up the slack, thereby giving you more lift without running into coil bind?

By all means, see what thicknesses are available, and price them out.
I'll keep an eye on the thread.
Like I said, if I think we can do something, I'm game.
Not sure what you mean by offset grinding the cores.

[scape]

this is an exciting thread! ;d hope to see more dev in this area