K&N Filters [Archive] - Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site

1stToyota

07-07-2009, 04:11 PM

Perhaps but, it isn't recomernded as the oil helps trap the smallest particles.

Oiling the filter (applying the correct amount) is not dificult at all.

The oil "problem" is simply a myth perpetuated by competing filter technology vendors.

As I said in another thread, Toyota offers a K&N type filter themselves so, they obviously have no problems with it. A TRD filter is made exactly like the K&N and may even be made by K&N. :smile:

Unless the myths are based in fact; some certainly have to be. For example: customer with Avalon pulls in with engine performance issue and MIL on, checked code and data stream, needed at least 80% calculated engine load @ WOT, was way below that spec, MAF heated wires and temp probe were gunked up with sludged, cleaned MAF meter and installed WIX filter, cleared code and let customer test drive his car. He couldn't believe the new throttle response and wanted to know what I did...told him I removed his K&N filter that he said was just installed, and they come pre-oiled so if it was over-oiled it was done so at the factory; nothing else could have put that kind of oil build-up in the MAF meter so quickly, other than the non-paper element that was upstream a few inches.

My view on oiled filters, for a stock Yaris like mine, is it'll save money when you're able to re-use it, but it's sure not worth it if you're thinking it'll give you big savings at the pump and will give you power that can be felt.

...and I'm sure the dealers have no problems charging customers for a computer analysis, cleaning, and sometimes even replacing MAF meters; pretty sure they stock and sell them all the time.

ka0sx

07-07-2009, 06:58 PM

wanted to know what I did...told him I removed his K&N filter that he said was just installed

your mistake is believing the customer, customers are lying snakes when it comes to getting their cars fixed they will always claim, "i did nothing out of the ordinary...." and finish with, "then all of a sudden...."

I have used oil-gauze filters on so many different cars and bikes that i have owned and have never had a problem. I have only seen a problem on cars with this kind of filter when the person fucked up.

I have also personally experienced the "i don't know it is not driving normally" we popped the air box and pulled the filter and there was a puddle of oil sitting in the bottom of the air box.

1stToyota

07-07-2009, 07:40 PM

your mistake is believing the customer, customers are lying snakes when it comes to getting their cars fixed they will always claim, "i did nothing out of the ordinary...." and finish with, "then all of a sudden...."

I have used oil-gauze filters on so many different cars and bikes that i have owned and have never had a problem. I have only seen a problem on cars with this kind of filter when the person fucked up.

I have also personally experienced the "i don't know it is not driving normally" we popped the air box and pulled the filter and there was a puddle of oil sitting in the bottom of the air box.

I believed the customer because he was about 70 years old, driving an Avalon, believing the salesman that pushed the K&N filter on him because it'd get him about "10 to 20 percent improvement in fuel economy" ...and I've also seen lots of vehicles with blow-by and PCV problems during the last 26 years, this Avalon showed only signs of fresh, clean sludge build-up on the heated wires, no dirty engine oil anywhere in the air intake. And I've also used many K&N and Green filters on my cars over the years, I've just reached a point where I want a filter that does what it was meant to do; filter ...not worried about the HP and fuel savings claims that don't match what's written on the fancy box; they're a nice sound mod and they're re-useable :)

GeneW

07-07-2009, 10:27 PM

I had one for a brief while. I read some studies which showed that the filtration rate of a K&N is not as effective as some other filters. I went out and bought one of those instead. I change the filter about every other oil change or when I can no longer see daylight through it, which ever comes first.

Gene

b_hickman11

07-08-2009, 02:33 PM

Unless the myths are based in fact; some certainly have to be. For example: customer with Avalon pulls in with engine performance issue and MIL on, checked code and data stream, needed at least 80% calculated engine load @ WOT, was way below that spec, MAF heated wires and temp probe were gunked up with sludged, cleaned MAF meter and installed WIX filter, cleared code and let customer test drive his car. He couldn't believe the new throttle response and wanted to know what I did...told him I removed his K&N filter that he said was just installed, and they come pre-oiled so if it was over-oiled it was done so at the factory; nothing else could have put that kind of oil build-up in the MAF meter so quickly, other than the non-paper element that was upstream a few inches.

My view on oiled filters, for a stock Yaris like mine, is it'll save many when you're able to re-use it, but it's sure not worth it if you're thinking it'll give you big savings at the pump and will give you power that can be felt.

...and I'm sure the dealers have no problems charging customers for a computer analysis, cleaning, and sometimes even replacing MAF meters; pretty sure they stock and sell them all the time.

Why would people think they will get "big savings" at the pump? K&N does not make a claim on MPG increase on the drop-in filters. Here is a quote from the K&N paper work that came with my filters and can also be found on their web site:

Fuel Economy
Fuel economy testing and mileage claims are a tricky business. Just ask the EPA, whose website states, “EPA’s fuel economy estimates are designed to allow consumers to comparison shop. Your fuel economy will almost certainly vary from EPA’s fuel economy rating. This is based on a number of factors, such as weather, road conditions, your driving and maintenance habits, and your use of air conditioning.” A lot of exaggerated claims are made in the marketplace by products claiming to improve gas mileage. K&N makes no general fuel economy claims, however we encourage you to try our air filter for yourself. Keeping air filter restriction as low as possible can be an important tool, among others, for maintaining high mileage.

Also you said that K&N filters are suppose to give you "power that can be felt," but K&N states, "Our automotive OE (original equipment) replacement air filters generally add 1-4 horsepower." So I wouldn't call 1 HP something you can "feel."

By the way, how old was the Avalon and how many miles did it have?

1stToyota

07-09-2009, 09:40 AM

Why would people think they will get "big savings" at the pump? K&N does not make a claim on MPG increase on the drop-in filters. Here is a quote from the K&N paper work that came with my filters and can also be found on their web site:

Fuel Economy
Fuel economy testing and mileage claims are a tricky business. Just ask the EPA, whose website states, “EPA’s fuel economy estimates are designed to allow consumers to comparison shop. Your fuel economy will almost certainly vary from EPA’s fuel economy rating. This is based on a number of factors, such as weather, road conditions, your driving and maintenance habits, and your use of air conditioning.” A lot of exaggerated claims are made in the marketplace by products claiming to improve gas mileage. K&N makes no general fuel economy claims, however we encourage you to try our air filter for yourself. Keeping air filter restriction as low as possible can be an important tool, among others, for maintaining high mileage.

Also you said that K&N filters are suppose to give you "power that can be felt," but K&N states, "Our automotive OE (original equipment) replacement air filters generally add 1-4 horsepower." So I wouldn't call 1 HP something you can "feel."

By the way, how old was the Avalon and how many miles did it have?

Yes, I've never seen any Yaris owner post about thinking of getting a K&N filter, or just installing one, and asking what kind of savings will they see and how much of a HP gain is it worth ...and never read it here, even on this thread?, where a Yaris owner wrote that they can feel a difference after installing a K&N filter... I don't know why THEY think they can feel the power and expect to see a good savings at the gas pump :rolleyes: ...like I stated before, they're a nice sound mod, and you can re-use them :)

Don't remember exactly on the Avalon, sure wasn't a beater; fairly late model (I do rembember that it was OBDII) and appeared to be very well taken care of. Main thing about the Avalon was that the MIL was on, couldn't get above about 55% calculated engine load @ WOT on the datastream, and had fresh oil buildup on the sensor, not the typical gray/tan dry ash coating that I come across.

b_hickman11

07-09-2009, 04:01 PM

Yes, I've never seen any Yaris owner post about thinking of getting a K&N filter, or just installing one, and asking what kind of savings will they see and how much of a HP gain is it worth ...and never read it here, even on this thread?, where a Yaris owner wrote that they can feel a difference after installing a K&N filter... I don't know why THEY think they can feel the power and expect to see a good savings at the gas pump :rolleyes: ...like I stated before, they're a nice sound mod, and you can re-use them :)

Don't remember exactly on the Avalon, sure wasn't a beater; fairly late model (I do rembember that it was OBDII) and appeared to be very well taken care of. Main thing about the Avalon was that the MIL was on, couldn't get above about 55% calculated engine load @ WOT on the datastream, and had fresh oil buildup on the sensor, not the typical gray/tan dry ash coating that I come across.

Don't remember exactly?? Thats not good for your argument. It could have had 200,000 miles on it and he had just got a brand new K&N filter and we blame ALL on the filter and nothing else? It could have been used as a pace car for NASCAR or on some dirt track...or maybe it could have been used as a Cab or a rent car. But I guess it doesn't matter since All evidence points to the K&N :thumbdown:

GeneW

07-09-2009, 10:12 PM

Friend who has a Dynamometer claims that K&Ns on average do nothing for horsepower, sometimes even slightly reduces it. One of his friends put it best - "If GM could gain some HP from K&N they'd at least offer it as a factory option, if not a Dealer option".

Gene

scape

07-09-2009, 10:21 PM

the drop-in filters claim no hp gain, however they do have an airbox replacement filter, which may gain a few hp b/c they are changing the shape and length of the air inlet+piping (the box is gone i believe), on k&n's website they have a 'dyno chart' to prove it-- but I strongly doubt any claims to be translatable to in real world usage

b_hickman11

07-09-2009, 10:42 PM

YarisOwnersDad

07-09-2009, 10:44 PM

scape

07-09-2009, 10:52 PM

the maintenance schedule for the yaris is suggested at every 30k miles, I believe; however my rule of thumb for my used cars was 10k or 6k for dusty areas; the K&n is nice though, I've never owned one personally.

toad

07-09-2009, 11:12 PM

k&n's are nice, i've had them on all my previous vehicles. haven't bought one yet for either yaris because i like to get them when i need to replace one first. they do pay for themselves after a couple changes, but depending on where you live and how many miles you drive that could be a few years! where they get you is the 'recharge kits'. they are always expensive! anyone know of a cheap substitute for these kits?

b_hickman11

07-10-2009, 12:46 AM

$9.00 for the kit and they usually last me around 3-4 cleanings.

The roads around here are very dusty. We have oil wells and gas wells going up everywhere and those big trucks and salt water trucks are always tracking out dirt from the lease road onto the highway. We have also have not got any rain in over 2 months so they are even more dirty than normal. Plus the 32 mile road that I take to work everyday has been under construction for 2+ years and there is a constant white sand/dust from the white rock they are using that stays on the road.

1stToyota

07-10-2009, 09:45 AM

Don't remember exactly?? Thats not good for your argument. It could have had 200,000 miles on it and he had just got a brand new K&N filter and we blame ALL on the filter and nothing else? It could have been used as a pace car for NASCAR or on some dirt track...or maybe it could have been used as a Cab or a rent car. But I guess it doesn't matter since All evidence points to the K&N :thumbdown:

Nice selective reading. :) That sure was desperate reaching. Wow!

1stToyota

07-10-2009, 09:55 AM

So we are back to what the actual purpose of a K&N drop-in filter is for. To save money by not having to buy replacement filters every 3000 miles which for me is 1 month. Air filter at my local dealer is $20 so that would cost me $240 a year just for air filters. The K&N was $40 and never needs to be replaced. Paid for it self in 2 months. If I keep the car for 5 years thats a savings of $1160 and I have 2 Yaris's so that would be $2320!!!

Every 3k miles!!!??? That applies to what, 1% of the drivers? And we're trying to ignore the fact that a big portion of K&N buyers ask about HP and MPG gains (they've always been marketed as a PERFORMANCE filter)...so their purpose for buying isn't just all about being able to clean and reuse.
You must think they're wonderful, a lot of people do, that's why they've sold so many and have such a good following. I'd imagine that they've got about 5% of the market (could be closer to 2-3% ??), but for one reason or another about 95% choose to buy Wix, OEM, Fram, etc, instead. Oh well.

$9.00 for the kit and they usually last me around 3-4 cleanings.

The roads around here are very dusty. We have oil wells and gas wells going up everywhere and those big trucks and salt water trucks are always tracking out dirt from the lease road onto the highway. We have also have not got any rain in over 2 months so they are even more dirty than normal. Plus the 32 mile road that I take to work everyday has been under construction for 2+ years and there is a constant white sand/dust from the white rock they are using that stays on the road.

Under those very dusty conditions not sure that a premium paper filter wouldn't be the wiser choice

b_hickman11

07-10-2009, 01:20 PM

Nice selective reading. :) That sure was desperate reaching. Wow!

Well someone had to reach since you tried to make a claim and didn't have ANY information to back it up......

b_hickman11

07-10-2009, 01:30 PM

Every 3k miles!!!??? That applies to what, 1% of the drivers? And we're trying to ignore the fact that a big portion of K&N buyers ask about HP and MPG gains (they've always been marketed as a PERFORMANCE filter)...so their purpose for buying isn't just all about being able to clean and reuse.
You must think they're wonderful, a lot of people do, that's why they've sold so many and have such a good following. I'd imagine that they've got about 5% of the market (could be closer to 2-3% ??), but for one reason or another about 95% choose to buy Wix, OEM, Fram, etc, instead. Oh well.

Under those very dusty conditions not sure that a premium paper filter wouldn't be the wiser choice

I didn't say it applied to ALL drivers. I said it applies to my situation. Did I say, "hey everyone on here needs to change their paper filters every 3000 miles?" No I don't remember saying that. The reason uneducated people think that ALL K&N filters have performance gains is because the first filters they come out with were for performance cars that already put out a lot of HP. And they did claim to give you more HP and THOSE filters did. Then many years down the road the developers decided to come up with reusable filters for your everyday driver.(Drop-ins) Because of their history of their performance filters people, like you, assume that the drop-ins will have the same effects that the performance filters and intake systems. Now they could have came out and said, "Our new filters do not provide as many benefits as our old filters," but I guess they thought that consumers, like you, were smarter than that.

1stToyota

07-10-2009, 03:00 PM

Well someone had to reach since you tried to make a claim and didn't have ANY information to back it up......

Yeah, let's see who's doing the reaching w/o any info to back it up :rolleyes:

Me:

1stToyota
For example: customer with Avalon pulls in with engine performance issue and MIL on, checked code and data stream, needed at least 80% calculated engine load @ WOT, was way below that spec, MAF heated wires and temp probe were gunked up with sludged, cleaned MAF meter and installed WIX filter, cleared code and let customer test drive his car. He couldn't believe the new throttle response and wanted to know what I did...told him I removed his K&N filter that he said was just installed, and they come pre-oiled so if it was over-oiled it was done so at the factory; nothing else could have put that kind of oil build-up in the MAF meter so quickly, other than the non-paper element that was upstream a few inches.

I believed the customer because he was about 70 years old, driving an Avalon, believing the salesman that pushed the K&N filter on him because it'd get him about "10 to 20 percent improvement in fuel economy" ...and I've also seen lots of vehicles with blow-by and PCV problems during the last 26 years, this Avalon showed only signs of fresh, clean sludge build-up on the heated wires, no dirty engine oil anywhere in the air intake.

Don't remember exactly on the Avalon, sure wasn't a beater; fairly late model (I do rembember that it was OBDII) and appeared to be very well taken care of. Main thing about the Avalon was that the MIL was on, couldn't get above about 55% calculated engine load @ WOT on the datastream, and had fresh oil buildup on the sensor, not the typical gray/tan dry ash coating that I come across.

You:

B Hickman11
It could have had 200,000 miles on it and he had just got a brand new K&N filter and we blame ALL on the filter and nothing else? It could have been used as a pace car for NASCAR or on some dirt track...or maybe it could have been used as a Cab or a rent car. But I guess it doesn't matter since All evidence points to the K&N

:biggrin:

1stToyota

07-10-2009, 03:25 PM

I didn't say it applied to ALL drivers. I said it applies to my situation. Did I say, "hey everyone on here needs to change their paper filters every 3000 miles?" No I don't remember saying that. The reason uneducated people think that ALL K&N filters have performance gains is because the first filters they come out with were for performance cars that already put out a lot of HP.

Wrong. It's because they didn't have MAF meters and computer feedback that outsmarted the extra airflow back then...you should have figured that out for yourself. And I don't think they're for performance and good savings at the pump, I've always said that's what others might think...I say they're a sound mod and they can be reused. :wink:

And they did claim to give you more HP and THOSE filters did.

They still push the performance claims...usually "3-5 hp gain" for drop-ins, yes?

Then many years down the road the developers decided to come up with reusable filters for your everyday driver.(Drop-ins) Because of their history of their performance filters people, like you, assume

YOU assumed wrong.

that the drop-ins will have the same effects that the performance filters and intake systems. Now they could have came out and said, "Our new filters do not provide as many benefits as our old filters," but I guess they thought that consumers, like you, were smarter than that.

A paper filter like Amsoil's Ea air filter, or a PureONE air filter will trap about 50x more dust (Amsoil's claim) than a shallow pleated, small square inched, oiled filter...and with your very dusty conditions you'd be able to figure that one out for yourself, or not.

BTW: LMAO, and to deflate the desperate little reaching again...I've got a K&N filter on the shelf for a Honda customer that's coming in next week...want to know what claims are on the box, in order which they appear?...it's a DROP-IN :smile:

"Designed to increase horsepower & acceleration"
"Washable/reusable/lifetime product"

Wooops

b_hickman11

07-10-2009, 04:55 PM

Wrong. It's because they didn't have MAF meters and computer feedback that outsmarted the extra airflow back then...you should have figured that out for yourself. And I don't think they're for performance and good savings at the pump, I've always said that's what others might think...I say they're a sound mod and they can be reused. :wink:

They still push the performance claims...usually "3-5 hp gain" for drop-ins, yes?

YOU assumed wrong.

A paper filter like Amsoil's Ea air filter, or a PureONE air filter will trap about 50x more dust (Amsoil's claim) than a shallow pleated, small square inched, oiled filter...and with your very dusty conditions you'd be able to figure that one out for yourself, or not.

BTW: LMAO, and to deflate the desperate little reaching again...I've got a K&N filter on the shelf for a Honda customer that's coming in next week...want to know what claims are on the box, in order which they appear?...it's a DROP-IN :smile:

"Designed to increase horsepower & acceleration"
"Washable/reusable/lifetime product"

Wooops

This is Yaris World, not Hondalovers.com. Where are they pushing the claim for the Yaris? If you go to the K&N website and look at the Yaris drop-in claims, you will notice that there are NONE!!! They do have a cone air filter for the Yaris that they claim a 3-4 HP gain on but we are talking about the Yaris drop-in. Not Honda and not performance!

b_hickman11

07-10-2009, 04:59 PM

Yeah, let's see who's doing the reaching w/o any info to back it up :rolleyes:

Me:

You:

:biggrin:

I already said I was the one having to reach since you didn't tell us any information on the car. It have been a 2009 model with 100 miles on it or it could have been a 2000 model with 500,000 miles on it. If it was an older car with more miles on it then there would be a lot more reason why his car was in that condition. If it was a new car with a K&N then your claim might have some backbone to it but since you can't remember, then your claim is useless.

1stToyota

07-10-2009, 05:45 PM

This is Yaris World, not Hondalovers.com. Where are they pushing the claim for the Yaris? If you go to the K&N website and look at the Yaris drop-in claims, you will notice that there are NONE!!! They do have a cone air filter for the Yaris that they claim a 3-4 HP gain on but we are talking about the Yaris drop-in. Not Honda and not performance!

Thanks, I was starting to think it was hickmansyogatime instead of yarisworld :sigh:

You're saying, right now, that K&N changes their box's sales pitch when it gets to the P/N for the Honda drop-in filter? I bet all their boxes look pretty much the same, where the text is concerned, whether it's a Honda, Kia, Toyota, Focus, etc....

For my '08 Yaris...right off they claim it's for performance, just like that Honda :)

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=33-2360

Don't know where you're getting your info.

1stToyota

07-10-2009, 05:55 PM

I already said I was the one having to reach since you didn't tell us any information on the car. It have been a 2009 model with 100 miles on it or it could have been a 2000 model with 500,000 miles on it. If it was an older car with more miles on it then there would be a lot more reason why his car was in that condition. If it was a new car with a K&N then your claim might have some backbone to it but since you can't remember, then your claim is useless.

You didn't need to reach, just read what was written. I listed the condition of the car, described the owner, said that there was no engine oil depoits anywhere in the air intake system, that the deposit looked like fresh oil, not the ash deposit I normally see, etc...listed all that, probably why you snipped it again. Stay with the 3%, I'll stick with the other 97%...it's just what you need for your extremely dusty conditions. A UOA might just discover that your over-cleansed K&N is "useless" :laugh:

Zaphod

07-10-2009, 06:59 PM

While undoubtedly true, I wouldn't put too much weight on the percentages you're using, as most people simply don't change their own oil.

To apply a little common sense, if they're not changing their own oil, they're not changing their air filter either. And the people changing it for them aren't going to suggest switching to K&N filters because the time involved with cleaning them would be counter productive.

It's just about money with a consumable like that in this throwaway society. What do they charge you for that, 15$ a filter? And what does that filter cost them, $7? It's all part of the profit margin for the company changing the oil/air filter, not that I have anything against their profit margin.

My point is that those percentages are probably a bit off because the largest percentage of buyers of air filters are service shops.

Myself, I'm going to use a K&N filter for the Yaris as I already use one for the Harley. I've already got the oil for the filters, so it's just one less thing I have to buy when I perform my vehicle maintenance.

1stToyota

07-10-2009, 08:00 PM

My 3% might be high? The % of DYIs can't be that much by comparision, and most probably don't get a K&N, probably get a Fram, Wix, etc...

b_hickman11

07-11-2009, 12:27 AM

Thanks, I was starting to think it was hickmansyogatime instead of yarisworld :sigh:

You're saying, right now, that K&N changes their box's sales pitch when it gets to the P/N for the Honda drop-in filter? I bet all their boxes look pretty much the same, where the text is concerned, whether it's a Honda, Kia, Toyota, Focus, etc....

For my '08 Yaris...right off they claim it's for performance, just like that Honda :)

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=33-2360

Don't know where you're getting your info.

I went to your little link and I didn't see any numbers....Did you?

b_hickman11

07-11-2009, 12:31 AM

You didn't need to reach, just read what was written. I listed the condition of the car, described the owner, said that there was no engine oil depoits anywhere in the air intake system, that the deposit looked like fresh oil, not the ash deposit I normally see, etc...listed all that, probably why you snipped it again. Stay with the 3%, I'll stick with the other 97%...it's just what you need for your extremely dusty conditions. A UOA might just discover that your over-cleansed K&N is "useless" :laugh:

When you go to a dealer or any other shop for any type of service what is the first thing that they always ask??? They always ask how many miles are on it. So I don't care if you found Bin Laden in the air box, how many miles that are on this car or any other car that is having problems is very important.

1stToyota

07-11-2009, 09:51 AM

I went to your little link and I didn't see any numbers....Did you?

For the Yaris P/N...

"K&N’s replacement air filters are designed to increase horsepower and acceleration" ...and repeats on the box, so HP claims aren't just for the Honda like you pretended.

Nice evasion. :)

1stToyota

07-11-2009, 10:00 AM

When you go to a dealer or any other shop for any type of service what is the first thing that they always ask??? They always ask how many miles are on it. So I don't care if you found Bin Laden in the air box, how many miles that are on this car or any other car that is having problems is very important.

Wrong. They ask for symtoms, and get customer info. And it could have had a million miles on it but if the entire intake system is free of engine oil and carbon buildup, but MAF sensor is covered in fresh goo, with brand new oiled filter upstream about 3", not too hard to figure out.

Zaphod

07-11-2009, 10:23 AM

My 3% might be high? The % of DYIs can't be that much by comparision, and most probably don't get a K&N, probably get a Fram, Wix, etc...
Nah, I was just saying that people should ignore those percentages, because most people have someone else make the decision for them.

Wix is kind of on the pricey side aren't they? I wouldn't know as they're not even sold at the el cheapo stores by me. I actually prefer Fram for oil filters because of the grip anyway even though I'm told Wix is the best there :)

I do it myself because I want it done right, but I don't want it to be an expensive pain in the ass either.

I ran K&N on my TJ for years and I never had any troubles with it, though I rarely cleaned the intake/throttle body. The worst build up of oil was honestly from the PCV. I actually had to get a pick tool to clean that out (not a valve on the TJ).

Funny story, it's was the same with the Harley too actually. It used to have one of those doofy hyperchargers on it. The rubber fittings on the PCV just fit too loose causing oil to spit out (before I replaced the top end gaskets and rotated the rings correctly).

I think I really want to put one of those PCV filters on the Yaris as described in the DIY section here before I start oiling my filters with engine oil:) I wonder if that would give the dealer an excuse to void the warranty.

1stToyota

07-11-2009, 01:09 PM

Nah, I was just saying that people should ignore those percentages, because most people have someone else make the decision for them.

Wix is kind of on the pricey side aren't they? I wouldn't know as they're not even sold at the el cheapo stores by me. I actually prefer Fram for oil filters because of the grip anyway even though I'm told Wix is the best there :)

I do it myself because I want it done right, but I don't want it to be an expensive pain in the ass either.

I ran K&N on my TJ for years and I never had any troubles with it, though I rarely cleaned the intake/throttle body. The worst build up of oil was honestly from the PCV. I actually had to get a pick tool to clean that out (not a valve on the TJ).

Funny story, it's was the same with the Harley too actually. It used to have one of those doofy hyperchargers on it. The rubber fittings on the PCV just fit too loose causing oil to spit out (before I replaced the top end gaskets and rotated the rings correctly).

I think I really want to put one of those PCV filters on the Yaris as described in the DIY section here before I start oiling my filters with engine oil:) I wonder if that would give the dealer an excuse to void the warranty.

If the people want it bad enough, no matter what it is, they'll get it. Not a big deal either with getting it installed by your local mechanic, or whoever does the service, and cleaning it shouldn't be an issue either; in most cases cleaning will be a couple of years down the road.

And the PCV issue really shouldn't be a big concern...most vents are at the bottom of the airbox, below the air filter, so you'd have to discard the air filter completely, or damage the gasket bad enough to allow it to effect the MAF...or the PCV vents downstream of the MAF near the throttle body.

b_hickman11

07-11-2009, 01:13 PM

Wrong. They ask for symtoms, and get customer info. And it could have had a million miles on it but if the entire intake system is free of engine oil and carbon buildup, but MAF sensor is covered in fresh goo, with brand new oiled filter upstream about 3", not too hard to figure out.

Yes you are wrong.....They ask for the miles to determine if it is going to be under warranty or not. How are they going to know if the service they are preforming will be paid for by the customer or by Toyoya?? I guess in your case it must be Magic!!!!

b_hickman11

07-11-2009, 01:17 PM

For the Yaris P/N...

"K&N’s replacement air filters are designed to increase horsepower and acceleration" ...and repeats on the box, so HP claims aren't just for the Honda like you pretended.

Nice evasion. :)

Like I said, I see no numbers. You do know what numbers are don't you? Here's a little help(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0). If you ever see something that look like these(they maybe combine), these are called numbers. Now in your little quote, I didn't see where it said, "The drop-in filter for the Yaris will give you 5 more HP, or 20 more HP, or 100 more HP, or"....well you get the point, hopefully!

b_hickman11

07-11-2009, 01:22 PM

1stToyota

07-11-2009, 01:26 PM

Yes you are wrong.....They ask for the miles to determine if it is going to be under warranty or not. How are they going to know if the service they are preforming will be paid for by the customer or by Toyoya?? I guess in your case it must be Magic!!!!

Yes, your Yoga stretching classes are back in business. Why do you need to pretend that every mechanic and service department assumes that it might be warranty work? The first question isn't for the mileage, fool...it's symptom and customer info.

Hi. Hickman here. I'll be your service manager today. What's that mileage, sir? Your oil change might not be under warranty. LOL!

1stToyota

07-11-2009, 01:45 PM

Like I said, I see no numbers. You do know what numbers are don't you? Here's a little help(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0). If you ever see something that look like these(they maybe combine), these are called numbers. Now in your little quote, I didn't see where it said, "The drop-in filter for the Yaris will give you 5 more HP, or 20 more HP, or 100 more HP, or"....well you get the point, hopefully!

Where are they pushing the claim for the Yaris? If you go to the K&N website and look at the Yaris drop-in claims, you will notice that there are NONE!!!

Wrong!!!

"K&N’s replacement air filters are designed to increase horsepower and acceleration"

You'd have to be crazy, or sad and insecure, not to see that as a performance/numbers claim from K&N for the Yaris drop-in P/N. Why do they need to GIVE you a number, when they've already claimed increase horsepower and acceleration ??? :rolleyes:

1stToyota

07-11-2009, 01:51 PM

Oh and by the way, my 2005 Taco came with a K&N filter already installed. Some kind of special package that included an upgrade air box and upgrade pipes and mufflers. Came from the plant that way. So if these filters are SOOOO bad, then why would Toyota put them in their products themselves?????

Better question, fanboi :biggrin:

If they're known for not filtering dust as well as paper, under your self-admitted EXTREMELY dusty conditions, so bad that filter won't make it 1 month w/o needing to be cleaned, why use the inferior filter for the job? :wink:

And if they're the greatest, why not install them in every vehicle? Why in maybe less than .005% of the Toyotas being sold? :clap:

Altitude

07-11-2009, 02:01 PM

I have a K&N in the Yaris and in my Jeep. Never once had a problem.

YarisOwnersDad

07-11-2009, 03:26 PM

MUSKOKA800

07-11-2009, 06:33 PM

Hi everyone, I just joined the forum and have a question about K&N filters. Are they a good idea for the Yaris? I have a 2007 three door, I've heard the oil used on the filter can cause problems for the sensors. I'm looking for real world experince on this subject. Thanks in advance.
Ken

45,000 kl on my '08 sedan with the K&N drop-in since week one and no negitive issues. Many hundreds of thousands of kilometers on past vehicles all with K&N's and they all ran strong and flawlessly. I've saved over a grand in throw-away filter purchases by running K&N. :thumbup:
And by saving the original OEM filter I can use it while I clean, thoroughly dry and re-oil the K&N at a leisurely pace.

RedRide

07-12-2009, 02:01 PM

Some of my Jeep buddies were finding dust DOWNSTREAM from their K&Ns in the air tubes. I have heard of other cases like this, also, but I don't personally know those other people.

If a filter is less restrictive to the air passing through it, then one must ask the question, is it still as efficient at trapping the dirt as the conventional paper filter?

If there really might be some slight HP gain or some slight MPG gain, I would still not want to risk using a less efficient filter. From K&Ns own HP comparison graphs, it appears that the extra HP only comes at WOT, and how often are we going to drive like that?

I'll stick with the old fashioned paper filters, thank you.

Tomster

True, some extreemly fine dust may get past a K&N. What little "dust" that does not get filtered should pose no threat under normal conditions.

However, even though I'm a K&N supporter, I probabably would not install one if I consistantly drove in extreemly dusty, dirty conditions.

So, like many things in life, when installing a K&N, a little common sense goes a long way. :smile:

b_hickman11

07-12-2009, 02:37 PM

Yes, your Yoga stretching classes are back in business. Why do you need to pretend that every mechanic and service department assumes that it might be warranty work? The first question isn't for the mileage, fool...it's symptom and customer info.

Hi. Hickman here. I'll be your service manager today. What's that mileage, sir? Your oil change might not be under warranty. LOL!

So they never ask for mileage??? Business must be slow at your shop!

b_hickman11

07-12-2009, 02:42 PM

Wrong!!!

"K&N’s replacement air filters are designed to increase horsepower and acceleration"

You'd have to be crazy, or sad and insecure, not to see that as a performance/numbers claim from K&N for the Yaris drop-in P/N. Why do they need to GIVE you a number, when they've already claimed increase horsepower and acceleration ??? :rolleyes:

Go to this link and see the numbers. On their home page, they have a link thats says, "Find Vehicle Horsepower Gain." If you click on it and go through all of the steps you will come to this page.

http://www.knfilters.com/search/hp_search.aspx

Now can you tell me how much the drop-in filter will increase your HP??

By the way, what was the weather like when you tested the HP increase of the K&N drop-in in Your Yaris?

b_hickman11

07-12-2009, 02:45 PM

Better question, fanboi :biggrin:

If they're known for not filtering dust as well as paper, under your self-admitted EXTREMELY dusty conditions, so bad that filter won't make it 1 month w/o needing to be cleaned, why use the inferior filter for the job? :wink:

And if they're the greatest, why not install them in every vehicle? Why in maybe less than .005% of the Toyotas being sold? :clap:

They are only known for not filtering dust as well as paper...BY YOU!!! So why would Toyota listen to your claims....you work for Toyota and holding out on everyone?? I need this part, 55606-52020, and was wondering if you can take it out of the warehouse for me. I'll give you a $1 for shipping!

1stToyota

07-13-2009, 09:24 AM

Go to this link and see the numbers. On their home page, they have a link thats says, "Find Vehicle Horsepower Gain." If you click on it and go through all of the steps you will come to this page.

http://www.knfilters.com/search/hp_search.aspx

Now can you tell me how much the drop-in filter will increase your HP??

By the way, what was the weather like when you tested the HP increase of the K&N drop-in in Your Yaris?

Wrong, you're the one with the K&N filter in the Yaris, that needs to be cleaned every month due to your extremely dusty conditions; you must be impressed with their decals :bonk:

And why did you need to throw away my K&N link...it was the direct link for the Yaris P/N, with the "buy now" option?

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=33-2360

From that link:

"K&N’s replacement air filters are designed to increase horsepower and acceleration"

It's not my fault that K&N is too chicken-$h!t and cowardly to backup their so called increase horsepower and acceleration claims with an actual number. :biggrin:

1stToyota

07-13-2009, 09:37 AM

So they never ask for mileage??? Business must be slow at your shop!

"When you go to a dealer or any other shop for any type of service what is the first thing that they always ask???"

...and YOU said that because they needed to know if it was under warranty or not...really? :wink:

Pal, why ask for the mileage, first, to see if it's under warranty? Like I said before, you get symptoms and customer details first, because they might be in for a flat tire, oil change, etc...and last time I checked that wasn't dealer covered warranty repairs...car could even be 20 years old :redface:

Oh, and with the Mitchell program that I use, like many other professional shops, mileage info is asked for on page 3 of the customer's W.I.P. invoice. :thumbup:

1stToyota

07-13-2009, 09:43 AM

They are only known for not filtering dust as well as paper...BY YOU!!!

Liar. Try following thread better next time. :tongue:
Scratch that...be sure to keep ignoring the input of what others are saying; a lot of it is stuff you don't want to read. :biggrin:

So why would Toyota listen to your claims....you work for Toyota and holding out on everyone?? I need this part, 55606-52020, and was wondering if you can take it out of the warehouse for me. I'll give you a $1 for shipping!

Oh, so Toyota is installing K&N filters on every vehicle, or probably way less than 1% of the new vehicles being sold...thought so. :w00t:

scape

07-13-2009, 10:21 AM

all I hear is the sound of an old plane plummeting erratically toward the ground, as this thread has gone south ;d

1stToyota

07-13-2009, 10:52 AM

I think it started with the claims that the Avalon might be a "pace car for NASCAR or on some dirt track" and did the final shark jump with the Bin Laden is hiding in the air box silliness. :rolleyes:

07WYarisRS

07-13-2009, 12:45 PM

have you ever wondered why you never see a K&N filter on any stock machine?
if they were so great why don't they use them
Simple
cotton filter are the worst filter type for filtering fine dust that will cause premature engine wear.
Even K&N recommends a foam prefilter for dusty conditions

do think you car sees much dusty conditions? don't wash under the hood for a couple months and look how much dust built up collects on the engine cover, not X that by XXXXXXXXXX the amount of air you engine sucks in everyday and think about how much of that dust is going into your engine.

As a motorcycle mechanic I have seen hundreds of engines destroyed by using K&N filters. #1 they do throw off the jetting sometime lean other times they reduce the intake velocity and cause the engine to run too rich or just poorly overall. Even FI bike need to have the fuel systems re-mapped for a K&N.

for you K&N owners take a clean white rag and go wipe out the intake pipe to the manifold and then tell us its clean in there. I have shown dozens of owners this for YEARS and most people withh agree they SUCK. if the MFG could gain and extra MPG from a different air filter don't you think they would have installed it?

1stToyota

07-13-2009, 01:08 PM

Amsoil needs to get it in gear and release their Ea paper filter for the Yaris; guaranteed for 100K miles, and it's reusable...they say just vacuum it, shake it out, wipe down w/ soft bristle brush, etc...

Only cotton filter I ever liked was the one made by Green (big in Europe, I think)...its cotton was weaved, like bluejeans, not loose layering, and was supposed to filter better, but still not as good as paper.

R2D2

07-13-2009, 01:59 PM

Amsoil needs to get it in gear and release their Ea paper filter for the Yaris; guaranteed for 100K miles, and it's reusable...they say just vacuum it, shake it out, wipe down w/ soft bristle brush, etc...

I couldn't agree more-those are great filters. I'd love to get my hands on one for a Yaris but I'm afflicted with this curse where they never offer one for the vehicles I end up buying!

R2

1stToyota

07-13-2009, 02:27 PM

I couldn't agree more-those are great filters. I'd love to get my hands on one for a Yaris but I'm afflicted with this curse where they never offer one for the vehicles I end up buying!

R2

My brother bought one for his new Ranger; looked like a very good and durable filter.

b_hickman11

07-13-2009, 03:58 PM

Liar. Try following thread better next time. :tongue:
Scratch that...be sure to keep ignoring the input of what others are saying; a lot of it is stuff you don't want to read. :biggrin:

Oh, so Toyota is installing K&N filters on every vehicle, or probably way less than 1% of the new vehicles being sold...thought so. :w00t:

Show me the post where I said they put them in every vehicle?? Thats right, theres not one. One of the reasons they don't is because of cost. They know a Hybrid setup is the best way to go right now. Why don't they install them in evry vehicle? Cost! You should know that though since you work for them.

b_hickman11

07-13-2009, 04:00 PM

Wrong, you're the one with the K&N filter in the Yaris, that needs to be cleaned every month due to your extremely dusty conditions; you must be impressed with their decals :bonk:

And why did you need to throw away my K&N link...it was the direct link for the Yaris P/N, with the "buy now" option?

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=33-2360

From that link:

"K&N’s replacement air filters are designed to increase horsepower and acceleration"

It's not my fault that K&N is too chicken-$h!t and cowardly to backup their so called increase horsepower and acceleration claims with an actual number. :biggrin:

If I had the OEM filter it would need to be changed every month but with my K&N I have to service it about 3-4 times a year. And you still didn't answer my question....what was the weather like when you had the K&N filter tested in your car?

b_hickman11

07-13-2009, 04:03 PM

"When you go to a dealer or any other shop for any type of service what is the first thing that they always ask???"

...and YOU said that because they needed to know if it was under warranty or not...really? :wink:

Pal, why ask for the mileage, first, to see if it's under warranty? Like I said before, you get symptoms and customer details first, because they might be in for a flat tire, oil change, etc...and last time I checked that wasn't dealer covered warranty repairs...car could even be 20 years old :redface:

Oh, and with the Mitchell program that I use, like many other professional shops, mileage info is asked for on page 3 of the customer's W.I.P. invoice. :thumbup:

The warranty is just one example. I never said the ONLY reason they ask is to check on the warranty. There are many other reasons they SHOULD ask for the mileage. If you go to Wal-Mart to have any service done they will ask for your miles. Surely you don't believe Wal-Mart does warranty service for Toyota? I thought you were better than that!

b_hickman11

07-13-2009, 04:06 PM

b_hickman11

07-13-2009, 04:07 PM

Altitude

07-13-2009, 04:12 PM

for you K&N owners take a clean white rag and go wipe out the intake pipe to the manifold and then tell us its clean in there. I have shown dozens of owners this for YEARS and most people withh agree they SUCK.

Checking the intake on my Jeep with AEM CAI and K&N shows clean. I must have one of the K&N's that don't suck. The throttle body does have some gunk in it, but that's oil from the PCV and very, very little of it at that. All of this is with the occasionally very dusty driving conditions 4-wheeling up in the mountains.

Oh, and I clean it *maybe* once a year? Go figure.

ka0sx

07-13-2009, 04:36 PM

How bout a mod close this thread as it is no longer informative and useful

1stToyota

07-13-2009, 05:44 PM

Show me the post where I said they put them in every vehicle??

"Oh, so Toyota is installing K&N filters on every vehicle, or probably way less than 1% of the new vehicles being sold...thought so."

You missed the "or" ...but of course you miss a lot on this thread, right? Thought so. :headbang:

1stToyota

07-13-2009, 05:46 PM

1stToyota

07-13-2009, 05:49 PM

The warranty is just one example. I never said the ONLY reason they ask is to check on the warranty.

No, you just said it was "always" the FIRST thing asked...to determine if it was warranty work, to see who would pay for the job, customer, or dealer/repair shop. LOL!!

And besides, you don't think Wal-Mart does warranty service for Toyota? I thought you were better than that!

1stToyota

07-13-2009, 05:54 PM

If I had the OEM filter it would need to be changed every month but with my K&N I have to service it about 3-4 times a year. And you still didn't answer my question....what was the weather like when you had the K&N filter tested in your car?

Why ask about my K&N filter? Never said I installed one in my Yaris.

b_hickman11

07-14-2009, 12:41 AM

"Oh, so Toyota is installing K&N filters on every vehicle, or probably way less than 1% of the new vehicles being sold...thought so."

You missed the "or" ...but of course you miss a lot on this thread, right? Thought so. :headbang:

LOL...you just quoted yourself. That quote is something you posted on a previous page!!! You just made fun of yourself!!!! Hahahaha, this is great!

b_hickman11

07-14-2009, 12:44 AM

Why ask about my K&N filter? Never said I installed one in my Yaris.

Exactly!!! Then why are you so sure about your claims, if you haven't even tested it out for yourself. It might increase HP by .0000000000001%

1stToyota

07-14-2009, 09:04 AM

Exactly!!! Then why are you so sure about your claims, if you haven't even tested it out for yourself. It might increase HP by .0000000000001%

Please tell me how a stock Yaris with a drop-in will compare to modded Mustang GTs and a modded '05 GTO. Never said I had one in my Yaris, you said I had one in my Yaris. I'll never buy another K&N filter, I've outgrown them and their decals and their so-called increased performance claims...and it'd be real nice if K&N had the stones to at least say .0000000000001% to their so-called "increase in performance and acceleration" claim that's listed with the Yaris P/N on the K&N *buy now* link.

1stToyota

07-14-2009, 09:10 AM

LOL...you just quoted yourself. That quote is something you posted on a previous page!!! You just made fun of yourself!!!! Hahahaha, this is great!

No, silly, my quote was because you said K&N was so great that Toyota used it on a dealer installed package, a long time ago...so I said what, they love them so much they now install K&N on every new Toyota being sold...OR do they actually install K&N filters on WAY less than 1% of new Toyotas being sold. You said it was because of costs. Really? That's the only reason? You made that up, OR you've got a link that shows Toyota's statement on K&N filters for their new vehicles? :)

--
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_hickman11
Show me the post where I said they put them in every vehicle??

"Oh, so Toyota is installing K&N filters on every vehicle, or probably way less than 1% of the new vehicles being sold...thought so."

You missed the "or" ...but of course you miss a lot on this thread, right? Thought so.

b_hickman11

07-14-2009, 03:29 PM

Please tell me how a stock Yaris with a drop-in will compare to modded Mustang GTs and a modded '05 GTO. Never said I had one in my Yaris, you said I had one in my Yaris. I'll never buy another K&N filter, I've outgrown them and their decals and their so-called increased performance claims...and it'd be real nice if K&N had the stones to at least say .0000000000001% to their so-called "increase in performance and acceleration" claim that's listed with the Yaris P/N on the K&N *buy now* link.

Thats exactly what I have been trying to get you to realize!! K&N doesn't make an exact HP claim for the Yaris(drop-in) like they do their Cone filters and intakes system. I know you never said you had one in your Yaris. I was just setting you up to say, "I don't even have one," even though you are making all of these claims about them in our Yaris's. You are making your claim on other vehicles and stuff you found on the internet rather than actual results you have seen in your own Yaris. The K&N filter for the Yaris might actual decrease the stock HP. The information that you are looking at on their site is just their general overall statement about their filters. If you keep researching you will find where it states that actual, real world HP increase will differ. Thats why they have the link "K&N Power Gain Search by Vehicle."
Just because the K&N will increase a Mustang by 15 HP doesn't mean it will do the same for a Yaris.

b_hickman11

07-14-2009, 03:37 PM

No, silly, my quote was because you said K&N was so great that Toyota used it on a dealer installed package, a long time ago...so I said what, they love them so much they now install K&N on every new Toyota being sold...OR do they actually install K&N filters on WAY less than 1% of new Toyotas being sold. You said it was because of costs. Really? That's the only reason? You made that up, OR you've got a link that shows Toyota's statement on K&N filters for their new vehicles? :)

--
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_hickman11
Show me the post where I said they put them in every vehicle??

"Oh, so Toyota is installing K&N filters on every vehicle, or probably way less than 1% of the new vehicles being sold...thought so."

You missed the "or" ...but of course you miss a lot on this thread, right? Thought so.

You posted that after I had already said that they do not install them on very many Vehicles So I already beat you to the your point. I am aware that it is probably less than 1%. Also if you notice my post, I said, "ONE of the reasons....." I aware that there is other reasons. Another reason is because they make more money if they put in a throw away filter in. Some owners, not all, don't know what % (so don't say I said all owners), will go to the dealer for service and the dealer will make money from new filters. So remember, I said one reason.

p.s. It wasn't a dealer installed package.

1stToyota

07-14-2009, 04:02 PM

"Oh, so Toyota is installing K&N filters on every vehicle, or probably way less than 1% of the new vehicles being sold...thought so."

You missed the "or" ...but of course you miss a lot on this thread, right? Thought so. :headbang:

Thats exactly what I have been trying to get you to realize!!

No, I'm trying to make you realize just how misleading K&N is when they state their "increase in performance and acceleration" claim that's listed with the Yaris P/N on the K&N *buy now* link - IF they were honest they'd put the "K&N Power Gain Search by Vehicle" link right next to the "buy now" option. They won't ever do that, they might lose some sales.

I know you never said you had one in your Yaris. I was just setting you up to say, "I don't even have one," even though you are making all of these claims about them in our Yaris's.

I never made any claims about the Yaris, I knew it'd never be power that could be felt on a stock Yaris, I'm just asking about K&N's so-called "claims" about increased performance on their boxes and what they claim on their buy-me-right-now page...and what other people say on these type threads.

You are making your claim on other vehicles and stuff you found on the internet rather than actual results you have seen in your own Yaris.

I've had K&N on my other vehicles, and I made a decision about K&N based on my experience...in 26 years at this I've been under a hood or 2. I stick with what I saw. Next time I'll get you a photo so you won't belly ache and get defensive for days, hopefully.

The K&N filter for the Yaris might actual decrease the stock HP. The information that you are looking at on their site is just their general overall statement about their filters.

To increase their sales, I trust. The info is a sales pitch for the Yaris owner that went to the trouble to see what P/N fit their car, and just above the buy link is the claim about increased performance. Sad.

If you keep researching you will find where it states that actual, real world HP increase will differ. Thats why they have the link "K&N Power Gain Search by Vehicle."

That's something a buyer does AFTER they've already hit the "buy me" now link, perhaps, or never does at all when they have the filter in their hands at the parts store, reading the claims on their box?

Just because the K&N will increase a Mustang by 15 HP doesn't mean it will do the same for a Yaris.

Wonder why they say "increase in performance and acceleration" ...on every box?

1stToyota

07-14-2009, 04:14 PM

You posted that after I had already said that they do not install them on very many Vehicles So I already beat you to the your point. I am aware that it is probably less than 1%. Also if you notice my post, I said, "ONE of the reasons....." I aware that there is other reasons. Another reason is because they make more money if they put in a throw away filter in. Some owners, not all, don't know what % (so don't say I said all owners), will go to the dealer for service and the dealer will make money from new filters. So remember, I said one reason.

p.s. It wasn't a dealer installed package.

Just because you can add something on a build page doesn't mean it's factory installed. Most sites even warn that prices might not be correct because DEALER "installation charges" will vary. I doubt that my tip was installed on the assembly line, probably yanked off of the dealer's parts shelf, even tho' I installed it on the build page.

All I know is that you first wrote that Toyota likes them, that's why it was installed on a Tacoma, and I fired back with my very first reply to that with: If Toyota thinks they're so great why are K&N filters installed almost never, when compared to the paper filters being installed on new Toyotas. Say what you want, I say it's because paper FILTERS better, and there doesn't seem to be too hot of a demand for K&N or they wouldn't be getting outsold by such a wide margain.

btw: If you just can't seem to get enough of me, and you find this topic so spellbinding, how bout we shift this to our private inboxes? Can I send you a buddy request? ;)

b_hickman11

07-14-2009, 06:02 PM

Just because you can add something on a build page doesn't mean it's factory installed. Most sites even warn that prices might not be correct because DEALER "installation charges" will vary. I doubt that my tip was installed on the assembly line, probably yanked off of the dealer's parts shelf, even tho' I installed it on the build page.

All I know is that you first wrote that Toyota likes them, that's why it was installed on a Tacoma, and I fired back with my very first reply to that with: If Toyota thinks they're so great why are K&N filters installed almost never, when compared to the paper filters being installed on new Toyotas. Say what you want, I say it's because paper FILTERS better, and there doesn't seem to be too hot of a demand for K&N or they wouldn't be getting outsold by such a wide margain.

btw: If you just can't seem to get enough of me, and you find this topic so spellbinding, how bout we shift this to our private inboxes? Can I send you a buddy request? ;)

I watched my Taco roll off of the delivery carrier from GST. I even helped them pull off the white protective coverings! I touched the truck before the dealership touched it! So Im sorry your little tip was probably glued on at your dealer but my system was done before the dealer! Yes I did say that Toyota likes them. Do you think they would still install them on SOME of their products if they hated them?? Surely not. There is a lot of products out there that are better than what Toyota installs on their products. Tires for example. They install tires that only last around 25,000 miles when there are tires out there that can triple that! But I guess Toyota knows what is better huh!

b_hickman11

07-14-2009, 06:23 PM

No, I'm trying to make you realize just how misleading K&N is when they state their "increase in performance and acceleration" claim that's listed with the Yaris P/N on the K&N *buy now* link - IF they were honest they'd put the "K&N Power Gain Search by Vehicle" link right next to the "buy now" option. They won't ever do that, they might lose some sales.

I never made any claims about the Yaris, I knew it'd never be power that could be felt on a stock Yaris, I'm just asking about K&N's so-called "claims" about increased performance on their boxes and what they claim on their buy-me-right-now page...and what other people say on these type threads.

I've had K&N on my other vehicles, and I made a decision about K&N based on my experience...in 26 years at this I've been under a hood or 2. I stick with what I saw. Next time I'll get you a photo so you won't belly ache and get defensive for days, hopefully.

To increase their sales, I trust. The info is a sales pitch for the Yaris owner that went to the trouble to see what P/N fit their car, and just above the buy link is the claim about increased performance. Sad.

That's something a buyer does AFTER they've already hit the "buy me" now link, perhaps, or never does at all when they have the filter in their hands at the parts store, reading the claims on their box?

Wonder why they say "increase in performance and acceleration" ...on every box?

They have a link on their Homepage to find out the HP gains. That sounds honest to me. You had to go through several pages to get to “Buy Now.” Maybe their webmaster thought people were smarter than that, but I guess not.

You are on a Yaris web site talking about how bad they are for the Yaris. So I would say that you are making a claim!

And if you want some pics, then here you go!

The first pic is of my carbon trap on the wife's 07 with 36,000 miles with a K&N. If you notice, it is still completely white, just like when it came over on the boat. My 08 with 24,000 miles with a K&N is still white too!

The second and third pics are of the intake. Our intakes are not design like those on a high performance race car, as you probably already know. They are not designed to have air forced into the system. Rather it is design to suck in fresh air that is coming from around the headlight. So there is not even enough air stream to push oil up into the air. And I'm sure you know how gravity works....so if the filter does get over oiled, it will drain down into the bottom of the air box while the car is at rest. So maybe your other vehicles you have tested a K&N filter on had a poor design of an intake or maybe you had one of those system where you wanted to force every bit of air you could possibly get in.

1stToyota

07-14-2009, 06:25 PM

I watched my Taco roll off of the delivery carrier from GST. I even helped them pull off the white protective coverings! I touched the truck before the dealership touched it!

Nice. You made the same statement a year ago, but you didn't go into any of the details about watching it roll off the carrier...etc.

So Im sorry your little tip was probably glued on at your dealer but my system was done before the dealer!

Not what I was talking about. I was talking about how most "power packages" are dealer installed...sometimes the vehicle has to be drop-shipped to Florida (for example) when you start adding "build" options to a new car/truck. But it seems to not be the case, with your Tacoma. Not how it usually works, so not a very good example.

Yes I did say that Toyota likes them. Do you think they would still install them on SOME of their products if they hated them?? Surely not. There is a lot of products out there that are better than what Toyota installs on their products. Tires for example. They install tires that only last around 25,000 miles when there are tires out there that can triple that! But I guess Toyota knows what is better huh!

I thought we were talking about filters...

BTW, I've seen dealers install "power packages" that they "hated" because of various reasons - they don't have to love what they sell and install...don't know why you think that's some sort of law. Personally I'd think it would be up to the customer to love it or hate it.

And I don't see any new PMs, so I guess it was too much to ask to keep this inspirational exchange to ourselves. You're right, we really should share it with our friends.

1stToyota

07-14-2009, 06:35 PM

They have a link on their Homepage to find out the HP gains. That sounds honest to me. You had to go through several pages to get to “Buy Now.” Maybe their webmaster thought people were smarter than that, but I guess not.

You are on a Yaris web site talking about how bad they are for the Yaris. So I would say that you are making a claim!

And if you want some pics, then here you go!

The first pic is of my carbon trap on the wife's 07 with 36,000 miles with a K&N. If you notice, it is still completely white, just like when it came over on the boat. My 08 with 24,000 miles with a K&N is still white too!

The second and third pics are of the intake. Our intakes are not design like those on a high performance race car, as you probably already know. They are not designed to have air forced into the system. Rather it is design to suck in fresh air that is coming from around the headlight. So there is not even enough air stream to push oil up into the air. And I'm sure you know how gravity works....so if the filter does get over oiled, it will drain down into the bottom of the air box while the car is at rest. So maybe your other vehicles you have tested a K&N filter on had a poor design of an intake or maybe you had one of those system where you wanted to force every bit of air you could possibly get in.

No, not too honest when you consider what's written on every single filter box they stick a filter in, not honest at all.

Show me where I said it's bad for the Yaris. Never said that, not once. I'm trying to get you to just explain what they mean by making so-called increased performance claims on the Yaris box and the Yaris *buy me now* link from K&N's site.

And thanks for chosing me to devote your attention to when others are saying things against K&N on this thread.

Guess you can't comprehend the velocity of the airflow @ WOT

I don't know...doesn't appear that the dust problem is quite as scarey as you made it out to be. A paper filter would probably last longer than 1 month, like you claimed, and could probably be just shaken out & with a little bit of low pressure shop air applied could be put back in service just as easy as the K&N.

b_hickman11

07-14-2009, 06:50 PM

Nice. You made the same statement a year ago, but you didn't go into any of the details about watching it roll off the carrier...etc.

Not what I was talking about. I was talking about how most "power packages" are dealer installed...sometimes the vehicle has to be drop-shipped to Florida (for example) when you start adding "build" options to a new car/truck. But it seems to not be the case, with your Tacoma. Not how it usually works, so not a very good example.

I don't know...doesn't appear that the dust problem is quite as scarey as you made it out to be. A paper filter would probably last longer than 1 month, like you claimed, and could probably be just shaken out & with a little bit of low pressure shop air applied could be put back in service just as easy as the K&N.

I thought we were talking about filters...

BTW, I've seen dealers install "power packages" that they "hated" because of various reasons - they don't have to love what they sell and install...don't know why you think that's some sort of law. Personally I'd think it would be up to the customer to love it or hate it.

And I don't see any new PMs, so I guess it was too much to ask to keep this inspirational exchange to ourselves. You're right, we really should share it with our friends.

Yes I did make a statement a year ago....about my 2008 Yaris not my 2005 Taco. I did a preference order on the Yaris. Which means I picked it up the same day it came. The Taco was a whole other story. I just happen to be there when it was brought in by the carrier. When I talked about "Toyota" Im talking about the folks who build the trucks from the ground up. I'm not talking about Bobby Joe at the dealership that has the job of installing mods that the service manger ordered off of ebay. I would hate it too if my job was to install things that don't exactly match up the the vehicle or something that was installed by a robot at the plant.

auxmike

07-14-2009, 06:50 PM

Would you get better airflow by cutting out the carbon trap?
Would it set off a MIL code?
Thanks!

b_hickman11

07-14-2009, 06:54 PM

No, not too honest when you consider what's written on every single filter box they stick a filter in, not honest at all.

Show me where I said it's bad for the Yaris. Never said that, not once. I'm trying to get you to just explain what they mean by making so-called increased performance claims on the Yaris box and the Yaris *buy me now* link from K&N's site.

And thanks for chosing me to devote your attention to when others are saying things against K&N on this thread.

Guess you can't comprehend the velocity of the airflow @ WOT

I don't know...doesn't appear that the dust problem is quite as scarey as you made it out to be. A paper filter would probably last longer than 1 month, like you claimed, and could probably be just shaken out & with a little bit of low pressure shop air applied could be put back in service just as easy as the K&N.

Once again we go back to the fact of how do you know it's not honest?? Have you tested it?? Have you seen someone test it on a Yaris? How do you know it doesn't increase the HP? Are you God and your just not telling us. Come on now, don't hold out....because I have a lot of questions!

How does it not "appear that the dust problem..." is bad?

Yes there have been about 2 or 3 other people that have posted that they don't like K&N for some reason or another. Just like there have been other people stating that they do like them....so whats your point?

b_hickman11

07-14-2009, 06:59 PM

Would you get better airflow by cutting out the carbon trap?
Would it set off a MIL code?
Thanks!

Not for sure. I think the carbon helps soak up any fumes that is in the air that might would eventually set a sensor off or cause air ratios to be off.

1stToyota

07-14-2009, 07:06 PM

Once again we go back to the fact of how do you know it's not honest?? Have you tested it?? Have you seen someone test it on a Yaris? How do you know it doesn't increase the HP? Are you God and your just not telling us. Come on now, don't hold out....because I have a lot of questions!

How does it not "appear that the dust problem..." is bad?

Yes there have been about 2 or 3 other people that have posted that they don't like K&N for some reason or another. Just like there have been other people stating that they do like them....so whats your point?

You're a mess. Didn't you say that their link said NO HP increase for the Yaris drop-in, only the cone P/N? Correct? Still with me? Now my question again...how then do they claim an increase in performance and acceleration for the Yaris drop-in, on the buy now link, and on the box? Tell me. :wink:

My point?...fetch. :biggrin:

1stToyota

07-14-2009, 07:12 PM

Yes I did make a statement a year ago....about my 2008 Yaris not my 2005 Taco. I did a preference order on the Yaris. Which means I picked it up the same day it came. The Taco was a whole other story. I just happen to be there when it was brought in by the carrier. When I talked about "Toyota" Im talking about the folks who build the trucks from the ground up. I'm not talking about Bobby Joe at the dealership that has the job of installing mods that the service manger ordered off of ebay. I would hate it too if my job was to install things that don't exactly match up the the vehicle or something that was installed by a robot at the plant.

What ebay parts are you talking about...I'm talking about official Toyota accessories that are on the "build your Yaris" link at Toyota.com ...just check the boxes...you didn't know that? Whoa!

Ever been to the Mini site? You used to check the box on the JCW package, and it was NOT a factory installed option, maybe it is now?

b_hickman11

07-14-2009, 08:17 PM

You're a mess. Didn't you say that their link said NO HP increase for the Yaris drop-in, only the cone P/N? Correct? Still with me? Now my question again...how then do they claim an increase in performance and acceleration for the Yaris drop-in, on the buy now link, and on the box? Tell me. :wink:

My point?...fetch. :biggrin:

No, thats not what I said. I said it shows an exact number for the cone. It does not show a number for the drop-in. It doesn't say "No increase" or "0" beside nor did I say that it did. It doesn't say anything beside it.

You're the one that said that the filter will not give the Yaris an increase in HP. You're the one that is claiming that their statement is false. I have never said it was true or false. I have said that the filter might increase HP or it might even decrease HP. But I don't know because I have not had it tested in my vehicle.

So back to what got this all started. HOW do you know that their statement is false? You already said you have never used one in a Yaris or you have not tested one. So if you are going to make a claim or attack someone else's claim, you have to have proof to back it up rather than saying that it will not increase HP. It's common sense. So, please show us your proof. If you can prove it then I, as well as others on here will finally listen to you. But until you show some proof, you are just blowing smoke!

p.s. Why do you think my conditions aren't as dusty as I said they were?

b_hickman11

07-14-2009, 08:27 PM

What ebay parts are you talking about...I'm talking about official Toyota accessories that are on the "build your Yaris" link at Toyota.com ...just check the boxes...you didn't know that? Whoa!

Ever been to the Mini site? You used to check the box on the JCW package, and it was NOT a factory installed option, maybe it is now?

OK, one example: if you go to a dealer and want power locks added to your car, more than likely they may install an aftermarket kit rather than OEM. Yes I have been to the build your own site. Some of the things they have to will be added at the dealer(for example window tint). Some of the things will be added by the distributor(for example the Vehicle Shield Package) Some of the things will be added when the vehicle is built at the plant. For example, if you want the power package, it will be added at the plant, the majority of the time. If someone buys a non-power package Yaris and wants to add OEM door locks then I could see where the dealer "hates" these situations. The installer is probably thinking, Why didn't they just buy one that already had the package from the plant. It would be easier to add aftermarket locks to a Yaris rather than add the OEM system.

And once again, we are talking about Toyotas, and the Yaris.

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 09:08 AM

No, thats not what I said. I said it shows an exact number for the cone. It does not show a number for the drop-in. It doesn't say "No increase" or "0" beside nor did I say that it did. It doesn't say anything beside it.

You said that there are no claims, NONE, for a performance increase in the Yaris (dropin)...and that's simply a lie and false advertisement, look at their box that the Yaris Dropin comes in.

"This is Yaris World, not Hondalovers.com. Where are they pushing the claim for the Yaris? If you go to the K&N website and look at the Yaris drop-in claims, you will notice that there are NONE!!!"

You're the one that said that the filter will not give the Yaris an increase in HP.

No, I said it was a sound mod and it can be reused, and it won't save big $$ at the pump, or give power that can be felt, like some seem to claim, that's when you lost it and all hell broke loose.

You're the one that is claiming that their statement is false.

You, way back on page 2 when you pretended that K&N now stands for an economy filter, and not just a performance filter (Yaris drop-in) LMAO, even tho' it says it's to improve performance right on the Yaris filter box?

I have never said it was true or false. I have said that the filter might increase HP or it might even decrease HP. But I don't know because I have not had it tested in my vehicle.

Looks like you don't know much, except how to get defensive about your fanboi filter.

So back to what got this all started. HOW do you know that their statement is false? You already said you have never used one in a Yaris or you have not tested one.

No, it all started because you couldn't handle what I stated about the TOYOTA Avalon, but you didn't seem to mind it when others said the K&N lost performance on the dyno, when every K&N box talks about a so-called increase in performance.

So if you are going to make a claim or attack someone else's claim, you have to have proof to back it up rather than saying that it will not increase HP. It's common sense.

Like I said before about your evasion, IF there was a HP increase K&N would mention it, just like they do for the cone...no problems with giving out a number for that P/N, but they avoid doing so with the other Yaris P/N...but they STILL promise performance and acceleration increase on the Yaris box...HOW? They did a test to backup that so-called claim? Really? Where's their numbers to prove that increase claim? But you said it might even decrease, so you seem just as unsure about it as I do. :biggrin:

So, please show us your proof. If you can prove it then I, as well as others on here will finally listen to you. But until you show some proof, you are just blowing smoke!

p.s. Why do you think my conditions aren't as dusty as I said they were?

How often do you wash your engine?

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 09:18 AM

OK, one example: if you go to a dealer and want power locks added to your car, more than likely they may install an aftermarket kit rather than OEM. Yes I have been to the build your own site. Some of the things they have to will be added at the dealer(for example window tint). Some of the things will be added by the distributor(for example the Vehicle Shield Package) Some of the things will be added when the vehicle is built at the plant. For example, if you want the power package, it will be added at the plant

No, last time I checked the Bobcat 455 GTO package was about a 4 grand dealer installed option...and even tho' Steeda Mustangs are sold new at the Ford dealerships, they're dropped shipped and built NOT at the Ford factory, etc...

If someone buys a non-power package Yaris and wants to add OEM door locks then I could see where the dealer "hates" these situations. The installer is probably thinking, Why didn't they just buy one that already had the package from the plant. It would be easier to add aftermarket locks to a Yaris rather than add the OEM system.

You know what they think?

And once again, we are talking about Toyotas, and the Yaris.

Yes, that's why I mentioned that some of those clickable build options on the build page for my TOYOTA Yaris was NOT factory installed. And you do realize that lots of work is done on many vehicles, after leaving the factory, after getting off the boat and before being loaded on the semi...and yes, we're talking about your little Toyota Tacoma package that included a K&N filter, on what, about .0006% of new Toyotas being sold? Wow!! LOL!

yaris 2sz

07-15-2009, 12:11 PM

the filter increase the driver. makes him to feel good...

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 02:37 PM

You said that there are no claims, NONE, for a performance increase in the Yaris (dropin)...and that's simply a lie and false advertisement, look at their box that the Yaris Dropin comes in.

"This is Yaris World, not Hondalovers.com. Where are they pushing the claim for the Yaris? If you go to the K&N website and look at the Yaris drop-in claims, you will notice that there are NONE!!!"

No, I said it was a sound mod and it can be reused, and it won't save big $$ at the pump, or give power that can be felt, like some seem to claim, that's when you lost it and all hell broke loose.

You, way back on page 2 when you pretended that K&N now stands for an economy filter, and not just a performance filter (Yaris drop-in) LMAO, even tho' it says it's to improve performance right on the Yaris filter box?

Looks like you don't know much, except how to get defensive about your fanboi filter.

No, it all started because you couldn't handle what I stated about the TOYOTA Avalon, but you didn't seem to mind it when others said the K&N lost performance on the dyno, when every K&N box talks about a so-called increase in performance.

Like I said before about your evasion, IF there was a HP increase K&N would mention it, just like they do for the cone...no problems with giving out a number for that P/N, but they avoid doing so with the other Yaris P/N...but they STILL promise performance and acceleration increase on the Yaris box...HOW? They did a test to backup that so-called claim? Really? Where's their numbers to prove that increase claim? But you said it might even decrease, so you seem just as unsure about it as I do. :biggrin:

So, please show us your proof. If you can prove it then I, as well as others on here will finally listen to you. But until you show some proof, you are just blowing smoke!

How often do you wash your engine?

I said that on the page where they show the exact number for the cone they don’t give an exact number so thanks for repeating exactly what I said. We are aware of what they put on the box, you have reminded us 50 times. No one is trying to deny that the boxes don’t say what you are stating. So now you are changing your mind? Now you are saying that the K&N filter will give a HP increase? Way back on page 2 I told you why I use the filter. That didn’t mean that’s why K&N makes them. Yes, I said I don’t know anything about the HP increases or decreases and their claims. So thanks again for repeating what I already said. There was only 1 person on here that talked about the dyno and that was after you had already made your claim and that test was not performed on a Yaris. You want to see my proof? Proof of what? I haven't made any claims! Once again I have already stated the K&N could increase, decrease, or even keep the HP the same. You are the one that said it would not increase it so you are the one that needs to back up a claim with Proof. I never said the have tested the dropin Yaris filter. So once again we are back where we started. K&N has made a claim. You said that claim is false. Shows us how you know it's false. You keep dodging the question!

I cleaned my engine at the start of the summer, at the beginning of my 2 1/2 month vacation.

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 02:44 PM

No, last time I checked the Bobcat 455 GTO package was about a 4 grand dealer installed option...and even tho' Steeda Mustangs are sold new at the Ford dealerships, they're dropped shipped and built NOT at the Ford factory, etc...

You know what they think?

Yes, that's why I mentioned that some of those clickable build options on the build page for my TOYOTA Yaris was NOT factory installed. And you do realize that lots of work is done on many vehicles, after leaving the factory, after getting off the boat and before being loaded on the semi...and yes, we're talking about your little Toyota Tacoma package that included a K&N filter, on what, about .0006% of new Toyotas being sold? Wow!! LOL!

Once again, we are talking Toyota!! Not other companies. No one cares what other companies are doing. Everything I have said was about Toyota. You are taking what I said about Toyota and applying it to Ford and Mini but you don’t have any information about Toyota?? You are the one that the dealers “hated” some of the mods that that have to install at the dealership. I just repeated what you said but now you’re saying that’s not true? Make up your mind! Yes, as I already stated(thanks for repeating me, again) I know dealers and the distributor can add some things to a vehicle. But my Truck was built in Texas so it was never on a boat. And yes as we already stated, it is less than 1% of the total vehicles. So good job on knowing that .0006% is less than 1%. We are so proud of you! You are learning so much! It brings a tear to my eye!

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 02:56 PM

I see what you're getting at...since K&N makes the increase horsepower and acceleration claim--on every filter they sell--they've certainly done testing to back up those sales pitches, yes? I mean, they're not just making it up to increase profits, they've got actual individual test results to back up those claims...know where they are? :wink:

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 03:01 PM

Once aalready stated, it is less than 1% of the total !

Mmmmmm--less than 1%? Way less?!!! Yeah, knew Toyota loved installing those K&N filters sooooooooooo often in their new Toyotas. Then that wasn't much of a point you were trying to make about Toyota not having problems with installing K&N filters...way less than 1% looks like a problem to me. Paper FTW!!!!! :headbang:

btw You just stated that the dealers hated me for installing a mod on my car at their dealership, why? It was just an option that Toyota offered for my Yaris, on their build website...why would they "hate" me for making more money off of me, installing a Toyota part on a Toyota Yaris? We're starting to see just how desperate you are.

:eyes-rolling:

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 05:00 PM

I see what you're getting at...since K&N makes the increase in performance and acceleration claim--on every filter they sell--they've certainly done testing to back up those sales pitches, yes? I mean, they're not just making it up to increase profits, they've got actual individual test results to back up those claims...know where they are? :wink:

I don't have a problem with their claim. You do. K&N doesn't have a problem with their own claim. You do. They have made a claim on their products. As a consumer, if you think it is a lie, then you prove how it is a lie. To this point, you have not shown any proof. This is basic economics that you learn in high school.

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 05:08 PM

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 05:09 PM

Mmmmmm--less than 1%? Way less?!!! Yeah, knew Toyota loved installing those K&N filters sooooooooooo often in their new Toyotas. Then that wasn't much of a point you were trying to make about Toyota not having problems with installing K&N filters...way less than 1% looks like a problem to me. Paper FTW!!!!! :headbang:

btw You just stated that the dealers hated me for installing a mod on my car at their dealership, why? It was just an option that Toyota offered for my Yaris, on their build website...why would they "hate" me for making more money off of me, installing a Toyota part on a Toyota Yaris? We're starting to see just how desperate you are.

:eyes-rolling:

Just because Toyota approves of a product doesn't mean they have to put it on more than 1% of their vehicles. There are other products they approve of but are not on a majority of their vehicles.

I didn't say they hated you. I was repeating what you said earlier about how they hate some of the OEM products that they have to install from time to time. Did you forget saying that? How did you get that confused with "you." By you misunderstanding my statement, it looks like you are trying to say that you are an OEM Toyota part?? I, and you said they hate some OEM parts....your response: "They hate me." How did you come up with that?

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 05:14 PM

No, fanboi, if they/K&N makes the claim for increased horsepower and performance, they need to provide proof, not I. How do they know they improved HP for the Yaris drop-in? They tested it and have the proof, or just guessed/made it up to increase sales? This is just honest business practice, to provide proof to back a selling point that they're so proud of they put it on every box.

Thats how products in the US work. I am sorry that you have a problem with American business principles. Have you called them and asked them to send you their test results? Just because it's not on their website doesn't mean they haven't done one. You think they are concerned about you right now? They don't even know you. So back to the original problem....You are the one that says their statement is false. If you called and told them that, what are they going to say?? Not for sure, but I would assume that ONE thing they would probably say, "OK where's you're proof?" If you can't prove that it's false, then how do you know??

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 05:16 PM

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 05:22 PM

I didn't say they hated you.

Liar.

Direct quote:

"You are the one that the dealers “hated” some of the mods that that have to install at the dealership"

I was repeating what you said earlier about how they hate some of the OEM products that they have to install from time to time. Did you forget saying that?

When you talked about they glued my tip on? When you talked about e-bay products?

How did you get that confused?

And you said several times that I worked for Toyota...why did you lie again?

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 05:24 PM

"Increase horsepower and acceleration"

Really? I'll believe it when I see their proof.

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 05:28 PM

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 05:38 PM

"Increase horsepower and acceleration"

Really? I'll believe it when I see their proof.

Thats exactly what they would say to you!!! And who do you think matters more?? You or them? A big company or 1 person? If you are trying to disprove someone, then you should have information to back up your claim.

I'm guessing this is how the conversation would go:

You: You're claim that your drop-in filter will Increase horsepower and acceleration on my Yaris is false.

K&N: OK, how do you know that this is false.

You: Because I said so.

K&N: Are you serious?

You: YES

K&N: Thank you for calling K&N and have a good day (They hang up)

You: Hello....you still there?

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 05:42 PM

You: You're claim that your drop-in filter will Increase horsepower and acceleration on my Yaris is false.

K&N: OK, how do you know that this is false.

Yes, where's your proof? Is it made up? You think it will increase sales if you don't provide proof?

Hello? You still there?

They hung up. :)

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 05:43 PM

Liar.

Direct quote:

"You are the one that the dealers “hated” some of the mods that that have to install at the dealership"

When you talked about they glued my tip on? When you talked about e-bay products?

How did you get that confused?

And you said several times that I worked for Toyota...why did you lie again?

I was using "hated" as a verb which meant whatever was after "hated" was the item that they hated. After hated, you should have noticed the words OEM parts. Now back to your original statement that dealers "hate" some of the OEM parts they are required to install. Thats what I was referring to.

And yes I did say something about parts off of ebay and them gluing on your tip....Whats the problem?

And yes I mentioned something about you working for Toyota. I already knew you didn't work for Toyota. I was just trying to figure out how you knew soooo much about the company.....

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 05:46 PM

I was using "hated" as a verb which meant whatever was after "hated" was the item that they hated. After hated, you should have noticed the words OEM parts. Now back to your original statement that dealers "hate" some of the OEM parts they are required to install.

Link?

And yes I did say something about parts off of ebay and them gluing on your tip....Whats the problem?

You lie.

And yes I mentioned something about you working for Toyota. I already knew you didn't work for Toyota....

see above

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 05:50 PM

SO, they can make any claim they want, and if the consumer that keeps K&N's doors open can't go to the trouble of proving K&N's increased HP claim for them, K&N doesn't have to provide it? :eek:

No thanks! :thumbdown:

And I never said it was false, said it was a sound mod and can be reused, but don't expect big saving at the gas pump and don't expect that big power that can be felt...said they need to prove their increased HP claims that they stick on every filter box...you found that link yet?

I'm sorry, but thats how the world works. There are thousands of companies that make claims, even if they have been tested. If someone has a problem with their claim and says it's false, then that person should be able to.....well you know...I have already given you your economic lesson for today. I'm going to start charging pretty soon.

You said that their claim of "Increase horsepower and acceleration" was not honest. OK, if it's "not honest," then what is it? Not honest=dishonest=not true=false=misleading.....no matter what you are calling it now, you still must prove it! Come on....I want to see little oh 1stToyota take down K&N!!! I'll give you $100 if you can get them to change their boxes.

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 05:55 PM

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 06:04 PM

Link?

You lie.

see above

Post #85 and post #82, before you changed it ;)

And I was not trying to lie.....it's called Sarcasm. Thats what you do when you already know something but you intentionally say the wrong thing. Trust me, we know someone like you would never get a job for Toyota!

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 06:07 PM

SO, they can make any claim they want, and if the consumer that keeps K&N's doors open can't or won't go to the trouble of proving K&N's increased HP claim for them, K&N doesn't have to provide it?
No wonder their sales are probably about 1% vs 99%

Yay!!

So what.....that 1% probably means millions of $ in profits each year for K&N.

Just a Fun Fact:
Bananas account for 1% of grocery stores sells. Do you think that bothers the growers? Come on, you should know. You sound like a banana lover!

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 06:14 PM

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 06:18 PM

[QUOTE=b_hickman11;352820]So what.....that 1% probably means millions of $ in profits each year for K&N.QUOTE]

Just think how much better the other 99% would be.

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 06:30 PM

Post 87 where you said you didn't talk about your Tacoma about a year ago on a K&N thread? That's wrong. And didn't say "OEM"...oh, and a co-worker said he'd give me $200.00 if I keep you bouncing for another week.

What does post 87 have to do with you saying "I was talking about genuine Toyota parts, not parts off of ebay." OEM is the same as "genuine Toyota." I never said I didn't talk about the Taco on here. I have mentioned it several times on here. I made a post talking about being there the day the Taco rolled off of the carrier. You replied back saying, "You didn't say that a year ago." Thats right, I didn't. Just because I didn't post part of a story when we were talking about something else, doesn't make it not true. Can you give me a link to this so-called K&N thread from a year ago.
Here is what you said:
Originally Posted by b_hickman11
I watched my Taco roll off of the delivery carrier from GST. I even helped them pull off the white protective coverings! I touched the truck before the dealership touched it!

1stToyota:
Nice. You made the same statement a year ago, but you didn't go into any of the details about watching it roll off the carrier...etc.

You're right...I probably never gave the details...but what does that matter?

This makes me really happy! You have been going to all this trouble, researching all my post, just for little oh me! Thats so sweet! If you want an autograph, I will send you one. I won't even charge you too much.

Looks like you will be $200 richer come next week!!

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 06:32 PM

[QUOTE=b_hickman11;352820]So what.....that 1% probably means millions of $ in profits each year for K&N.QUOTE]

Just think how much better the other 99% would be.

Yes...but the other 99% is not one company. Just because K&N is 1% doesn't mean FRAM is 99%. Or Wix.....hopefully you understand that. If not, we are in deeper than I thought we where. You are going to need some extra credit and an around the clock tutor.

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 06:42 PM

Yes...but the other 99% is not one company.

Never said it was.

ust because K&N is 1% doesn't mean FRAM is 99%.[/quote]

Never made that claim, just :clap: at the 1% for having the pretty little stop sign decal. :wink:

Or Wix......

I just hope K&N is happy looking up. :rolleyes:

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 06:47 PM

What does post 87 have to do with you saying "I was talking about genuine Toyota parts, not parts off of ebay."

Because you talked about ebay and I never did?

This makes me really happy! You have been going to all this trouble, researching all my post, just for little oh me! Thats so sweet! If you want an autograph, I will send you one. I won't even charge you too much.

Looks like you will be $200 richer come next week!!

Thanks for admitting that I'll keep you "bouncing" for another week, sticker fanboi

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 06:48 PM

ust because K&N is 1% doesn't mean FRAM is 99%.

Never made that claim, just :clap: at the 1% for having the pretty little stop sign decal. :wink:

I just hope K&N is happy looking up. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Then how would they have the other 99%. Your favorite company doesn't have the 99%. No one has the whole 99%....so how would they get that? Shut down all the over companies that make filters. That would be a monopoly and we frown on that here in America!

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 06:51 PM

Because you talked about ebay and I never did?

This makes me really happy! You have been going to all this trouble, researching all my post, just for little oh me! Thats so sweet! If you want an autograph, I will send you one. I won't even charge you too much.

Thanks for admitting that I'll keep you "bouncing" for another week, sticker fanboi

Yes I did talk about ebay and you didn't....whats your point?

Well I am in the middle of my annual 2 1/2 month vacation and I have nothing better to do at this moment, than to throw bananas at a monkey and watch him play swap finger!

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 06:56 PM

[Quote] Then how would they[quote] :smile:

"they" that have over 1%? :biggrin:

Your favorite company doesn't have the 99%, more like 1% :cry:

1stToyota

07-15-2009, 06:59 PM

Yes I did talk about ebay and you didn't....whats your point?

Evasion noted

Well I am in the middle of my annual 2 1/2 month vacation and I have nothing better to do at this moment

LMAO!!

Good, I'll just toss you another peanut for when you're not busy sniffing your finger.

R2D2

07-15-2009, 09:04 PM

auxmike

07-15-2009, 09:50 PM

+1 , this thread is dead........:thumbdown:

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 10:33 PM

Evasion noted

LMAO!!

Good, I'll just toss you another peanut for when you're not busy sniffing your finger.

I love how you use something I already said to you, to try to get back at me!

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 10:35 PM

[Quote] Then how would they[quote] :smile:

"they" that have over 1%? :biggrin:

Your favorite company doesn't have the 99%, more like 1% :cry:

No one has the 99%. No one even has more than 50%....whats your point?

K&N will never be the top selling brand of filters. Their products are designed that way.

b_hickman11

07-15-2009, 10:35 PM

+1 , this thread is dead........:thumbdown:

Nah man, this is just getting good!

R2D2

07-15-2009, 10:47 PM

Nah man, this is just getting good!

LMAO

You guys are persistant, I'll give you that!

1stToyota

07-16-2009, 08:19 AM

Guys,

This really isn't about air filters any more, is it?

I'm probably the only person still following this thread but I think this race is run.
If you like them-use em. If not, accept the fact others can and and they are not inferior beings for using them. I've seen cases where K&N's work well and cases where they were a huge let down based on oil analysis.

I personally don't use them but know others who do-we don't fight about it. Agree to disagree and call it a day.
R2

Yeah, I think it just started up again because the sticker fanboi got mad at me because of my Avalon comment (about a YEAR ago!!) and he started in with his Tacoma Texas Package example (don't know why he tried to deny that now), but the thread got closed pretty quick...guess he got a little bit pissied because he didn't get to shake his pom-poms enough for K&N...well, we're seeing it now, after he was forced to wait nearly 1 year--when I mentioned the Avalon again Mr. Hickman starts right up where we left off, really getting to blow his top good this time. :laugh:

Last year's hot topic

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10586&page=2&highlight=%22Texas+Package%22

1stToyota

07-16-2009, 08:30 AM

Nah man, this is just getting good!

We know!

Can't believe you basically asked *how high* I wanted you to jump when I said my friend was willing to pay me to keep you bouncing for another week, when you announced that it appears I'll get to spend that $200.00 for sure. :eek:

If you weren't so OWNED you would have at least came back with something like: You'll never collect that because you won't last that long

But instead your next follow up was:

"Well I am in the middle of my annual 2 1/2 month vacation and I have nothing better to do at this moment"

WOW!! You're really letting me control your vacation time? PWNED!!

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 01:37 PM

Yeah, I think it just started up again because the sticker fanboi got mad at me because of my Avalon comment (about a YEAR ago!!) and he started in with his Tacoma Texas Package example (don't know why he tried to deny that now), but the thread got closed pretty quick...guess he got a little bit pissied because he didn't get to shake his pom-poms enough for K&N...well, we're seeing it now, after he was forced to wait nearly 1 year--when I mentioned the Avalon again Mr. Hickman starts right up where we left off, really getting to blow his top good this time. :laugh:

Last year's hot topic

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10586&page=2&highlight=%22Texas+Package%22

Show me where I denied it.......

I keep trying to get back to your original claim that K&N's statements are false. I ask for proof and then you start talking about ordering tips and packages that come on a Ford and on a Mini. So then we talk about that for a while since you bring up off topic items. Then I have to come in and get us back on track. You make your statement that you're right because I said so.....and then you start talking about how other companies out sell K&N. Well if you were a smart person, you would realize that their products are designed that way and they will never out sell most other compaines.

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 01:42 PM

We know!

Can't believe you basically asked *how high* I wanted you to jump when I said my friend was willing to pay me to keep you bouncing for another week, when you announced that it appears I'll get to spend that $200.00 for sure. :eek:

If you weren't so OWNED you would have at least came back with something like: You'll never collect that because you won't last that long

But instead your next follow up was:

"Well I am in the middle of my annual 2 1/2 month vacation and I have nothing better to do at this moment"

WOW!! You're really letting me control your vacation time? PWNED!!

Well at least during the week. Not any good shows on TV. Too hot to play golf. No important professional sports during this time. The wife is at grad school. So you are very entertaining! Some of the things you have come up with make me laugh. Like when you said Wix sells more filters than K&N. Your way of thinking is sooo hilarious!

1stToyota

07-16-2009, 01:49 PM

1stToyota

07-16-2009, 01:52 PM

[QUOTE=b_hickman11;353312]Well at least during the week. Not any good shows on TV. Too hot to play golf. No important professional sports during this time. The wife is at grad school.QUOTE]

[Trying to make excuses for why you admitted to letting me control your vacation time noted] :tongue:

1stToyota

07-16-2009, 01:54 PM

And by the way, are you drunk or on drugs? Why do you take my quotes and delete random letters to make it look like a nigga can't spell??

Racists much? :eek::thumbdown:

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 02:01 PM

[QUOTE=b_hickman11;353308]
I keep trying to get back to your original claim that K&N's statements are falseQUOTE] :smile:

Did you ever find the proof that can backup their so-called "increased horsepower" claim on the Yaris drop-in K&N *buy now* link yet? Where's that proof to back the sales pitch? Never found it? Knew you wouldn't.

And funny how others have proof that they actually LOST HP on the Dyno after installing a K&N filter that promises increase. :thumbdown:

Others? That means more than one and there has only been 1 person post anything about the dyno and that wasn't even done on the Yaris. Did I have ever find the proof to back up their claim? I'm not the one who has a problem with it. They could put "This filter will will cause $500 to be deposited into your bank account 5 minutes after install," and I wouldn't care. Once again, they are a big company and you are 1 person. No one cares about your beef with K&N's boxes.

ps Why do you think other companies sell more filters than K&N?

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 02:01 PM

Racists much? :eek::thumbdown:

Not really, I have plenty of white friends! Matter of fact, my maintenance man help me hold up my air box a few pages back. You gots to love the white folk!

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 02:02 PM

1stToyota

07-16-2009, 02:33 PM

[QUOTE=1stToyota;353323]

that wasn't even done on the Yaris.

Never said it was. My point was about them losing HP on a product that has a sales pitch for increased HP

Did I have ever find the proof to back up their claim? I'm not the one who has a problem with it.

Neither do I. I love how you're the fanboi who's either unwilling or unable to find proof that they do testing on every application to back their increased HP sales pitch that's on every air filter box.

Once again, they are a big company and you are 1 person. No one cares about your beef with K&N's boxes.

Except the slurper that was owned enough to admit that I'm controlling them on their vacation.

ps Why do you think other companies sell more filters than K&N?

Because Toyota won't install K&N on their vehicles even 1% of the time? :wink:

1stToyota

07-16-2009, 02:36 PM

Not really

Really? Unlike you, I never thought it was okay to use words like "nigga"... and "white folk"

1stToyota

07-16-2009, 02:39 PM

[QUOTE=b_hickman11;353334][QUOTE=1stToyota;353327]

OK[/QUOTE :wink:

"Well I am in the middle of my annual 2 1/2 month vacation and I have nothing better to do at this moment"

WOW!! You're really letting me control your vacation time? PWNED!!

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 03:32 PM

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 03:34 PM

Really? Unlike you, I never thought it was okay to use the word "nigga"...

It is OK if you are talking about yourself. I was referring to me, not you. So now you are trying to tell me what I can say to myself? Wow, you really must think you are God.

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 03:39 PM

[QUOTE=b_hickman11;353332]

Never said it was. My point was about them losing HP on a product that has a sales pitch for increased HP

Neither do I. I love how you're the fanboi who's either unwilling or unable to find proof that they do testing on every application to back their increased HP sales pitch that's on every air filter box.

Except the slurper that was owned enough to admit that I'm controlling them on their vacation.

Because Toyota won't install K&N on their vehicles even 1% of the time? :wink:

Losing HP? What was the weather like when you got those test results? And once again, I’m not the one that has a problem with their claim. I have not said it was true. I have not said it was false. So I need proof to show what? You said it was false but have no proof. You think that I’m a big company?? Wow, you really do need help. Maybe you are working too much. You need a vacation. I got plenty of time I could give you.

Why do you think Wix sells more filters than K&N?

1stToyota

07-16-2009, 03:42 PM

[QUOTE=1stToyota;353361][QUOTE=b_hickman11;353334]

Look who ran out of things to say and has to use material that he has already used. Thats so sweet!

Liar, just love reminding you of how owned you are. Thanks, fanboi.

--
"Well I am in the middle of my annual 2 1/2 month vacation and I have nothing better to do at this moment"

WOW!! You're really letting me control your vacation time? PWNED!!

1stToyota

07-16-2009, 03:45 PM

[QUOTE=1stToyota;353354]

Losing HP? What was the weather like when you got those test results? And once again, I’m not the one that has a problem with their claim. I have not said it was true. I have not said it was false. So I need proof to show what? You said it was false but have no proof. You think that I’m a big company?? Wow, you really do need help. Maybe you are working too much. You need a vacation. I got plenty of time I could give you.

Why do you think Wix sells more filters than K&N?

I don't have a problem at all with you, or anybody else for that matter :biggrin:, for being unable and/or unwilling to provide proof that K&N tests every single one of their applications to see if the so-called HP increase is actually true.

Why does Toyota still choose not to use K&N so often?

--
"Well I am in the middle of my annual 2 1/2 month vacation and I have nothing better to do at this moment"

WOW!! You're really letting me control your vacation time? PWNED!!

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 03:55 PM

[QUOTE=b_hickman11;353393][QUOTE=1stToyota;353361]

Liar, just love reminding you of how owned you are. Thanks, fanboi.

--
"Well I am in the middle of my annual 2 1/2 month vacation and I have nothing better to do at this moment"

WOW!! You're really letting me control your vacation time? PWNED!!

LIAR!! Wow that is kind of fun, let me try it again. LIAR! Well, it's already kind of wearing off.....

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 03:56 PM

[QUOTE=b_hickman11;353395]

I don't have a problem at all with you, or anybody else for that matter :biggrin:, for being unable and/or unwilling to provide proof that K&N tests every single one of their applications to see if the so-called HP increase is actually true.

Why does Toyota still choose not to use K&N so often?

--
"Well I am in the middle of my annual 2 1/2 month vacation and I have nothing better to do at this moment"

WOW!! You're really letting me control your vacation time? PWNED!!

You already asked that question a few pages back and I already gave you an answer. Why do you ignore my questions? Have I stumped God?

Why does FRAM sell more filters than K&N?

Altitude

07-16-2009, 04:12 PM

Are you two girls done arguing yet?

auxmike

07-16-2009, 04:26 PM

These gentlemen would like to take you both out to lunch. Guess where????

auxmike

07-16-2009, 04:27 PM

Are you two girls done arguing yet?

:bellyroll::bow::thanks:

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 04:59 PM

These gentlemen would like to take you both out to lunch. Guess where????

Wow that Whip is off da chain. Let me pick up this chick and I will be on my way. Go ahead and order me a #3.

auxmike

07-16-2009, 05:16 PM

LOL my ass off! That made my day, thanks.:thumbup::respekt:
Sentra??

b_hickman11

07-16-2009, 05:37 PM

LOL my ass off! That made my day, thanks.:thumbup::respekt:
Sentra??

Not really for sure. The only way to tell is from the front bumper but even then there's not a whole lot to work with.

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 08:25 AM

It is OK if you are talking about yourself. I was referring to me, not you. So now you are trying to tell me what I can say to myself? Wow, you really must think you are God.

You pick nice topics to joke about; God, nigga, white folk...btw, got any other racial slurs you'd like to use to prove you're not a racist?

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 08:32 AM

[QUOTE=1stToyota;353398]

You already asked that question a few pages back and I already gave you an answer. Why do you ignore my questions? Have I stumped God?

Why does FRAM sell more filters than K&N?

Sure, we all see the point that you're trying to make about K&N's 1% spot, and how you'd like to use this little thread as an example...from recent postings: Service departments not wanting to mess with drippy filters, concerns over sensors and dust, HP loss on the dyno, big power loss due to datastream info that's way below specs, damaged motorcycle engines, poor results on UOA, former K&N buyers going back to paper, "filtration" problems, K&N supporter stating that even he wouldn't use a K&N with very dirty/dusty conditions, auto makers not getting too excited about non-paper filters, etc... hey, maybe they could try throwing in an extra sticker or two. :clap:

btw, It's a tie @ 63 postings each, so far...feel free to pull way ahead, since you're on vacation and real bored. LOL!

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 02:26 PM

[QUOTE=b_hickman11;353400]

Sure, we all see the point that you're trying to make about K&N's 1% spot, and how you'd like to use this little thread as an example...from recent postings: Service departments not wanting to mess with drippy filters, concerns over sensors and dust, HP loss on the dyno, big power loss due to datastream info that's way below specs, damaged motorcycle engines, poor results on UOA, former K&N buyers going back to paper, "filtration" problems, K&N supporter stating that even he wouldn't use a K&N with very dirty/dusty conditions, auto makers not getting too excited about non-paper filters, etc... hey, maybe they could try throwing in an extra sticker or two. :clap:

btw, It's a tie @ 63 postings each, so far...feel free to pull way ahead, since you're on vacation and real bored. LOL!

OK let me dumb down the question and then see if we can get an answer.

Why do sales reports at auto parts stores show other filter companies such as Wix and Fram, selling more filters than K&N during 1 year?

p.s. Fram, STP, and Purolator all have claims on their boxes that their filters will increase MPG and maximize performance. But there is no proof on the box, just like K&N.

Another question about the K&N claim. When they say "Increase horsepower and acceleration," what do you think they are basing that on. Does it say, "compared to stock setup" or does it say "compared to a dirty air filter"? No it doesn't say either one. It's an opened ended claim. So when you read it, you are probably thinking about the stock setup and maybe they are talking about a dirty air filter.

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 02:26 PM

You pick nice topics to joke about; God, nigga, white folk...btw, got any other racial slurs you'd like to use to prove you're not a racist?

Whats your point?

auxmike

07-17-2009, 02:34 PM

Ah So........:bellyroll:

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 02:48 PM

That one is great!

auxmike

07-17-2009, 03:15 PM

That one is great!

That's Jerry Lewis, BTW.:eyebulge:

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 03:46 PM

me dumb

Guess so. :smile:

--
"Well I am in the middle of my annual 2 1/2 month vacation and I have nothing better to do at this moment"

WOW!! You're really letting me control your vacation time? PWNED!!

Why do sales reports at auto parts stores show other filter companies such as Wix and Fram, selling more filters than K&N during 1 year?

+1

:thumbup:

Great idea...surprised that I didn't think of that first. Never tried it, but if one were to go to...say...WalMart, the mall for a day, or any place with lots of traffic and ask young & old, male & female, ask them if they know what filter they use, maybe 90+% of the time they won't say K&N? :tongue:

Another question about the K&N claim. When they say "Increase horsepower and acceleration," what.

:bellyroll:

Just yesterday you kept stressing that the so-called claims meant nothing to you...thanks for letting me change your view so quickly. :headbang:

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 03:47 PM

Whats your point?

That was a *no* ??

Figured so.

bearda

07-17-2009, 04:05 PM

A K&N supporter could always claim that FRAM sells more filters because one K&N per car is all you ever need...

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 04:31 PM

A K&N supporter could always claim that FRAM sells more filters because one K&N per car is all you ever need...

My question wasn't how often, it was what brand of filter do you use. K&N probably wouldn't be mentioned even 3% of the time. :frown:

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 04:39 PM

My name is 1stToyota and I'm gay, which means I like little boys.

Wow, I can do that too. This is fun!!

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 04:42 PM

My question wasn't how often, it was what brand of filter do you use. K&N probably wouldn't be mentioned even 3% of the time. :frown:

Ummmm you never had a question. I asked 3 different questions and you ignored them and started talking about something different. You said K&N accounts for 1% or less of the total sales of air filters. But now you are changing what you said....

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 04:44 PM

A K&N supporter could always claim that FRAM sells more filters because one K&N per car is all you ever need...

Exactly....and thats one reason why K&N sells less filters than most other companies. Thats one reason why other companies get more money out of it's customers pockets! I'm glad someone answered the questions. 1stToyota has been ignoring them.....

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 04:49 PM

Guess so. :smile:

--
"Well I am in the middle of my annual 2 1/2 month vacation and I have nothing better to do at this moment"

WOW!! You're really letting me control your vacation time? PWNED!!

+1

:thumbup:

Great idea...surprised that I didn't think of that first. Never tried it, but if one were to go to...say...WalMart, the mall for a day, or any place with lots of traffic and ask young & old, male & female, ask them if they know what filter they use, maybe 90+% of the time they won't say K&N? :tongue:

:bellyroll:

Just yesterday you kept stressing that the so-called claims meant nothing to you...thanks for letting me change your view so quickly. :headbang:

Not only yesterday, but for the past week. I haven't changed my view. I have tested the K&N on 2 Yaris's and have showed my results to back up anything I have claimed. But you make a claim without any back up information. But I'm just trying to help you realize why your claim of "It's false because I said so" doesn't have much weight.

And I'm glad I'm still taking up your time and I've got you all fired up and going back to look at old post!! Didn't know we were keeping score. Thats so sweet.

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 04:54 PM

Wow, I can do that too. This is fun!!

Forging reported.

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 04:57 PM

Ummmm you never had a question. I asked 3 different questions and you ignored them and started talking about something different. You said K&N accounts for 1% or less of the total sales of air filters. But now you are changing what you said....

You're not swift enough to set me up with your desperate and loaded questions.

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 05:00 PM

Exactly....and thats one reason why K&N sells less filters than most other companies. Thats one reason why other companies get more money out of it's customers pockets! I'm glad someone answered the questions. 1stToyota has been ignoring them.....

That doesn't quite add up for their K&N oil filters...that might sell about .001% of the time, does it?

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 05:08 PM

Not only yesterday, but for the past week. I haven't changed my view. I have tested the K&N on 2 Yaris's and have showed my results to back up anything I have claimed. But you make a claim without any back up information. But I'm just trying to help you realize why your claim of "It's false because I said so" doesn't have much weight.

Wrong...said where's the proof? Did you find it yet?

And I'm glad I'm still taking up your time and I've got you all fired up and going back to look at old post!! Didn't know we were keeping score. Thats so sweet.

Too late to try and change what happened, pawn...you're the one that wept that I am controlling your vacation time and that I would keep you "bouncing" for another week.

And real sorry that you're not up to speed yet...didn't look up old postings, silly, just clicked the reply number...you know, the one listed with every posting? Gives the numbers right there, fanboi.

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 05:13 PM

[QUOTE=1stToyota;353779]

OK let me dumb down the question and then see if we can get an answer.

Why do sales reports at auto parts stores show other filter companies such as Wix and Fram, selling more filters than K&N during 1 year?

p.s. Fram, STP, and Purolator all have claims on their boxes that their filters will increase MPG and maximize performance. But there is no proof on the box, just like K&N.

Another question about the K&N claim. When they say "Increase horsepower and acceleration," what do you think they are basing that on. Does it say, "compared to stock setup" or does it say "compared to a dirty air filter"? No it doesn't say either one. It's an opened ended claim. So when you read it, you are probably thinking about the stock setup and maybe they are talking about a dirty air filter.

See, I just snipped, I didn't forge, and I sure didn't lie and try to make you out to be some kind of pedo.

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 05:16 PM

That doesn't quite add up for their K&N oil filters...that might sell about .001% of the time, does it?

LOL....here we go again with you changing the subject. I give a reason why K&N air filters sells are where they are at and you start talking about oil filters, which has nothing to do with anything we have talked about in any threads. You come up with claims but without any proof and then when someone does have proof to back something up, you change the subject. Like when we were talking about Toyota's and you started talking about Mini's.

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 05:18 PM

[QUOTE=b_hickman11;353888]

See, I just snipped, I didn't forge, and I sure didn't lie and try to make you out to be some kind of pedo.

I just picked out random letters of your post like you did to me back somewhere around page 4. Remember back when I said that you were trying to make it look like a nigga can't spell......then you got your under roos all in a bind thinking I called you a nigga when I was referring to myself. Come on, you member!

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 05:22 PM

Wrong...said where's the proof? Did you find it yet?

Too late to try and change what happened, pawn...you're the one that wept that I am controlling your vacation time and that I would keep you "bouncing" for another week.

And real sorry that you're not up to speed yet...didn't look up old postings, silly, just clicked the reply number...you know, the one listed with every posting? Gives the numbers right there, fanboi.

Remember when I posted the pictures of the air box?? That was my proof of my claim. You remember what my claim was? Here's a hint...It had nothing to do with HP increases.
Really? I wasn't talking about post numbers, Mr. Score Keeper, you told me that I said something a year ago in an old thread. So you looked that up.....

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 05:27 PM

You're not swift enough to set me up with your desperate and loaded questions.

I have already set you up plenty of times. I just set you up a few post ago. I said something about that I had already proved my claim...knowing that you would think I was talking about HP claims, and you responded that you haven't seen my proof and that I hadn't proved anything.(which is exactly what I knew you would put) But remember, I haven't made any claims on HP like you have. I just claimed that my 2 K&N drop-in filters had not leaked any oil and has stopped all harmful dust particles. Should I post the pictures again to refresh your memory. You used to be pretty good at remembering old post. You even remembered one from a year ago. Is something wearing you down. Maybe you need some of that vacation time I was talking about giving you earlier.

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 05:29 PM

Forging reported.

But what does that have to do with fuel filters?

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 05:52 PM

Well peeps I'm off for a weekend trip to see the in-laws and to build them hoes a storage building. To all my fans(lol) I will be back Sunday night or sometime Monday. 1stToyota be safe and have a great weekend! But until then, holla at yo boy!

b_hickman11

07-17-2009, 05:54 PM

p.s. This looks exactly like my Uncle Mike. Just didn't want someone to think I'm a racist and report me to the NAACP. You all be good. Peace!!

Cooter

07-17-2009, 06:13 PM

Your lack of reasoning and common sense amazes me. You two make less sense than Michael Jackson.

It's apparent that you two have some sort of beef with each other. Haven't you heard of PM's? You've wasted 11 pages on bickering. Do either of you want to argue with my 7 year old about "No, I"M RIGHT...NO, I'M RIGHT!!!"

If what is claimed on the box is REALLY that big of a deal to you, why don't you do us all a favor and contact them to find out for yourself. The lack of participation in this thread should be a clue that most of us JUST DON'T CARE.

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 06:37 PM

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 06:41 PM

But what does that have to do with fuel filters?

Just making the point that K&N might not be too popular, for one reason or another. Yes, you can argue that numbers are low because it can be reused, and you might even dream that 1 in every 5 cars have a K&N (air) filter installed...but more likely you'd be hard pressed to find 1 K&N installed out of every 4-5 hundred cars checked.

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 06:52 PM

LOL....here we go again with you changing the subject. I give a reason why K&N air filters sells are where they are at and you start talking about oil filters, which has nothing to do with anything we have talked about in any threads. You come up with claims but without any proof and then when someone does have proof to back something up, you change the subject. Like when we were talking about Toyota's and you started talking about Mini's.

LOL coming from the likes of someone like you. I mention the Avalon, and you're forced to paint it as a Nascar, dirt track car, taxi cab, etc...and what proof?...LOL...it's not proof because someone agrees with you and you just desperately need it to be.

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 07:02 PM

I just picked out random letters of your post like you did to me back somewhere around page 4. Remember back when I said that you were trying to make it look like a nigga can't spell......then you got your under roos all in a bind thinking I called you a nigga when I was referring to myself. Come on, you member!

Total :bs:

...and others probably believe that nervous and desperate attempt at damage control about as much as they believed that you really hired a man with *pink* fingers to hold your filter with one hand while you held the camera with the other. I don't care why you used the words "nigga" and "white folk"...and a lot more slurs, I just don't think it's funny, but I guess you do; you're still at it.

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 07:05 PM

you told me that I said something a year ago in an old thread.....

Yeah, nearly a year ago when you talked about that little Tacoma package, after I first mentioned the Avalon...funny how things stay the same.

1stToyota

07-17-2009, 07:25 PM

I have already set you up plenty of times. I just set you up a few post ago. I said something about that I had already proved my claim...knowing that you would think I was talking about HP claims, and you responded that you haven't seen my proof and that I hadn't proved anything.(which is exactly what I knew you would put) But remember, I haven't made any claims on HP like you have. I just claimed that my 2 K&N drop-in filters had not leaked any oil and has stopped all harmful dust particles.

Proof? I guess I missed that UOA. Feel free to repost it.

But I thank you for being messed up enough to say your vacation was now being devoted to me.

ka0sx

07-17-2009, 07:59 PM

ahem... cough... cough.... *clears throat*

SHUT THE FUCK UP

P.S. stop responding with 10 posts when you can include every thing in one, for shits sake, multi-quote if you don't know how then learn.

auxmike

07-17-2009, 10:46 PM

:laughabove::thanks:

1stToyota

07-18-2009, 12:02 PM

ahem... cough... cough.... *clears throat*

SHUT THE FUCK UP

P.S. stop responding with 10 posts when you can include every thing in one, for shits sake, multi-quote if you don't know how then learn.

:laughabove::thanks:

+1 :barf: :redface:

goku87

07-18-2009, 05:09 PM

+1 :barf: :redface:

I'm pretty sure he was talking to you...

auxmike

07-18-2009, 05:36 PM

+1 :thumbsup:

1stToyota

07-18-2009, 05:40 PM

I'm pretty sure he was talking to you...

Well, just in case he missed it, I'm on the right & Hickman is on the left. But I've got a sneaky feeling it was dircted just at me, while ignoring the other guy's equal input (his 77 postings). :rolleyes:

He meant it for me, I meant it for the both of us.

b_hickman11

07-19-2009, 07:48 PM

LOL coming from the likes of someone like you. I mention the Avalon, and you're forced to paint it as a Nascar, dirt track car, taxi cab, etc...and what proof?...LOL...it's not proof because someone agrees with you and you just desperately need it to be.

It was called sarcasm...we already covered this topic. Do I need to do a review?

b_hickman11

07-19-2009, 07:50 PM

Total :bs:

...and others probably believe that nervous and desperate attempt at damage control about as much as they believed that you really hired a man with *pink* fingers to hold your filter with one hand while you held the camera with the other. I don't care why you used the words "nigga" and "white folk"...and a lot more slurs, I just don't think it's funny, but I guess you do; you're still at it.

No one asked you what you thought. And damage control from what? You? hahahahah, thats hiiiiiilllarious!

b_hickman11

07-19-2009, 07:52 PM

Yeah, nearly a year ago when you talked about that little Tacoma package, after I first mentioned the Avalon...funny how things stay the same.

Really?? Because you told me that I mentioned my Taco a year ago and now you are saying that I said it AFTER you talked about your grandpa's Avalon which was this month. That's a big difference. Can't make up your mind?

b_hickman11

07-19-2009, 07:54 PM

Proof? I guess I missed that UOA. Feel free to repost it.

But I thank you for being messed up enough to say your vacation was now being devoted to me.

Exactly, you missed it or what some people might say ignored the questions that had answers that would conflict with your loaded claim.

b_hickman11

07-19-2009, 07:55 PM

+1 :barf: :redface:

+4

b_hickman11

07-19-2009, 07:57 PM

Well, just in case he missed it, I'm on the right & Hickman is on the left. But I've got a sneaky feeling it was dircted just at me, while ignoring the other guy's equal input (his 77 postings). :rolleyes:

He meant it for me, I meant it for the both of us.

awwww poor baby.

p.s. To get us back on topic, have you tested your Yaris yet on your claim.

Or are you still waiting on your Ford and your Mini to get back from Florida?

1stToyota

07-20-2009, 09:30 AM

It was called sarcasm...we already covered this topic. Do I need to do a review?

Yes, it all started with your desperate evasions. LOL!
And it's not sarcasm, I called it stretching and you agreed. :tongue:

No one asked you what you thought. And damage control from what? You? hahahahah, thats hiiiiiilllarious!

Never asked them to. And for what? Easy...your pink fingers and forged posting. :bellyroll:

Really?? Because you told me that I mentioned my Taco a year ago and now you are saying that I said it AFTER you talked about your grandpa's Avalon which was this month. That's a big difference. Can't make up your mind?

Can't rely on your brain any more? Well, I'll post it for the 2nd time on this thread.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10586&page=2&highlight=%22Texas+Package%22

Exactly, you missed it or what some people might say ignored the questions that had answers that would conflict with your loaded claim.

Oh, so you do have a UOA to back your claim that the K&N filter is perfect protection for your engine? Post it again, please. You've got the time, you're devoting your vacation to me, remember? :bellyroll:

+4

+5

:thumbup: to the bored little sticker collector :bellyroll:

awwww poor baby.

p.s. To get us back on topic, have you tested your Yaris yet on your claim.

Or are you still waiting on your Ford and your Mini to get back from Florida?

Keep bouncing, crybaby, that $200.00 is almost here! :bellyroll:

What claim would that be? Valero gas works great in my Yaris?

I did say this back on page one:

"My view on oiled filters, for a stock Yaris like mine, is it'll save money when you're able to re-use it, but it's sure not worth it if you're thinking it'll give you big savings at the pump and will give you power that can be felt."

...and it's a sound mod

You dispute that?

Lot's of people have made Yaris and non-Yaris claims on this thread, good and bad...usually if it was bad you tried to put it all on me, instead of taking it up with the one that actually made the claim, for some reason. :rolleyes:

btw, I noticed you didn't multi-quote. Guess you'll have to break up my posting and make several replies?

b_hickman11

07-21-2009, 12:52 PM

Yes, it all started with your desperate evasions. LOL!
And it's not sarcasm, I called it stretching and you agreed. :tongue:

Never asked them to. And for what? Easy...your pink fingers and forged posting. :bellyroll:

Can't rely on your brain any more? Well, I'll post it for the 2nd time on this thread.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10586&page=2&highlight=%22Texas+Package%22

Oh, so you do have a UOA to back your claim that the K&N filter is perfect protection for your engine? Post it again, please. You've got the time, you're devoting your vacation to me, remember? :bellyroll:

+5

:thumbup: to the bored little sticker collector :bellyroll:

Keep bouncing, crybaby, that $200.00 is almost here! :bellyroll:

What claim would that be? Valero gas works great in my Yaris?

I did say this back on page one:

"My view on oiled filters, for a stock Yaris like mine, is it'll save money when you're able to re-use it, but it's sure not worth it if you're thinking it'll give you big savings at the pump and will give you power that can be felt."

...and it's a sound mod

You dispute that?

Lot's of people have made Yaris and non-Yaris claims on this thread, good and bad...usually if it was bad you tried to put it all on me, instead of taking it up with the one that actually made the claim, for some reason. :rolleyes:

btw, I noticed you didn't multi-quote. Guess you'll have to break up my posting and make several replies?

1. Evasions?? I get us back on topic and then you get us off topic. Then I get us back on topic and then, once again, you get us off topic. We talk about Toyota’s and you talk about Ford’s. We talk about Toyota’s and you talk about the Mini. We talk about air filters and you talk about oil filters. So looks like you are the one with the evasions! And yes, on some topics I had to stretch because you try to bring up points but with no information to back them up. And yes I have used sarcasm, but don’t think you are remembering the right post or not. I say something about sarcasm, you think of a post where I had to stretch. I talk about stretching and you think of a post where I used sarcasm. Looks like someone is bouncing!!!

2. Looks like you are trying to stretch on that one. You’re not very good at it!

3. Once again, it really touches my heart that you go back a year looking it my old post. It brings a tear to my eye. But once again, what’s your point? I talked about the Taco coming off the carrier and you got your panties all in a bunch because I left out that part of the story on another post. Next time I tell a story I’ll be sure to tell everything. What I had to eat that day, what clothes I was wearing and when the last time I laid a deuce!

4. The only thing I have claimed was that my filter had not leaked any oil past my air box and there where no noticeable dirt that was not being trapped. I never said, “The K&N is perfect for my engine.” Do you have proof that I said that? Of course not! Because everything you come up with you never have any proof to back it up. Which takes us back to the original claim.

5. Gay

6. I’m not talking about that claim. I have never said anything about that. This all started when you said that K&N is a dishonest company since they are LIARS! When they claim HP increases on the box. I ask for your proof, but you show none. You always change the subject. We already know what you are going to say. “I don’t have to prove anything, K&N does…..blah blah blah.” But there is not a K&N representative on here. You are on here with a claim but you have no proof.

The other people that have had claims, good or bad, also showed us proof. You are the only one with a claim that has no proof. Everyone else gave us real world examples. But when it comes to your “K&N is dishonest claim,” you have yet to show proof. But lets see how you evaded it this time……..

p.s. I’m sorry I left you hanging the past day. The weather here is about 30 degrees cooler than what it has been so I been on the golf course the past couple of days. So now this will give you something to do in between taking orders at the Jack in the Box drive thru! (p.s. that was sarcasm)

1stToyota

07-21-2009, 01:26 PM

Hello, fanboi.

Can't imagine that this all started, again (nearly a year later, LOL), with the Avalon quick-fix (computer analysis, MAF cleaning, Wix filter and 2 test drives...wow, a whopping $90.00 charge), but you chose to tippy-foot and tail-tuck away from the guy that claimed "hundreds" of motorcycle engines were damaged due to the use of K&N filters. Like the guy said before, this isn't about filters anymore, and comparing your reactions to a $90.00 claim vs thousands of $$$ for the hundreds of motorcycles being damaged, it's easy to see that it never was.

Everything that's happened since is probably just an old wound that never quite healed. :rolleyes:

btw, Just 1 more day and I'll get that $200.00, bouncer!! :bellyroll:

stopped all harmful dust particles = no proof?

Maybe you have a Sherlock Holmes Jr kit & sensitive pink fingers, but w/o a UOA I don't believe the "all"...not in your extremely dusty conditions.

1. Evasions?? I get us back on topic and then you get us off topic. Then I get us back on topic and then, once again, you get us off topic. We talk about Toyota’s and you talk about Ford’s. We talk about Toyota’s and you talk about the Mini. We talk about air filters and you talk about oil filters. So looks like you are the one with the evasions! And yes, on some topics I had to stretch because you try to bring up points but with no information to back them up. And yes I have used sarcasm, but don’t think you are remembering the right post or not. I say something about sarcasm, you think of a post where I had to stretch. I talk about stretching and you think of a post where I used sarcasm. Looks like someone is bouncing!!!

2. Looks like you are trying to stretch on that one. You’re not very good at it!

3. Once again, it really touches my heart that you go back a year looking it my old post. It brings a tear to my eye. But once again, what’s your point? I talked about the Taco coming off the carrier and you got your panties all in a bunch because I left out that part of the story on another post. Next time I tell a story I’ll be sure to tell everything. What I had to eat that day, what clothes I was wearing and when the last time I laid a deuce!

4. The only thing I have claimed was that my filter had not leaked any oil past my air box and there where no noticeable dirt that was not being trapped. I never said, “The K&N is perfect for my engine.” Do you have proof that I said that? Of course not! Because everything you come up with you never have any proof to back it up. Which takes us back to the original claim.

5. Gay

6. I’m not talking about that claim. I have never said anything about that. This all started when you said that K&N is a dishonest company since they are LIARS! When they claim HP increases on the box. I ask for your proof, but you show none. You always change the subject. We already know what you are going to say. “I don’t have to prove anything, K&N does…..blah blah blah.” But there is not a K&N representative on here. You are on here with a claim but you have no proof.

The other people that have had claims, good or bad, also showed us proof. You are the only one with a claim that has no proof. Everyone else gave us real world examples. But when it comes to your “K&N is dishonest claim,” you have yet to show proof. But lets see how you evaded it this time……..

p.s. I’m sorry I left you hanging the past day. The weather here is about 30 degrees cooler than what it has been so I been on the golf course the past couple of days. So now this will give you something to do in between taking orders at the Jack in the Box drive thru! (p.s. that was sarcasm)

Yaris Hilton

07-21-2009, 02:27 PM

Last night I actually saw a TV ad for K&N air filters, on the Discovery Channel!

1stToyota

07-21-2009, 06:37 PM

Last TV ad I saw was several years ago...2 brothers each had a K&N, one drove a ricey car, one drove a truck--they were arguing with each other! :wink:

b_hickman11

07-21-2009, 10:45 PM

Altitude

07-22-2009, 05:31 AM

Ok... it all makes sense now. You two should just get a room and get it over with :wub: :wink:

1stToyota

07-22-2009, 09:20 AM

Evasion noted......

With that little evasion of yours, I just earned $200.00...what a nice way to start the day, bouncing fanboi.

"LOL my ass off!!"

btw, on that "K&N Power Gain Search by Vehicle" link that you provided...

http://www.knfilters.com/search/hp_search.aspx

...under our Yaris P/N --NOTHING. No power gain at all, it seems. :wink:
And why did they list the oil filter on the power gain link? Oh yeah, I forgot, it says "performance" on the box. :rolleyes:

Funny thing, when you click the Yaris P/N from that link...

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=33-2360

...and it says that the "replacement" filter is designed to INCREASE horsepower! Really? Previous link doesn't back up that claim, for some reason. :eek:

Still no proof, K&N? Thanks!! :bellyroll:

b_hickman11

07-22-2009, 01:50 PM

With that little evasion of yours, I just earned $200.00...what a nice way to start the day, bouncing fanboi.

"LOL my ass off!!"

btw, on that "K&N Power Gain Search by Vehicle" link that you provided...

http://www.knfilters.com/search/hp_search.aspx

...under our Yaris P/N --NOTHING. No power gain at all, it seems. :wink:
And why did they list the oil filter on the power gain link? Oh yeah, I forgot, it says "performance" on the box. :rolleyes:

Funny thing, when you click the Yaris P/N from that link...

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=33-2360

...and it says that the "replacement" filter is designed to INCREASE horsepower! Really? Previous link doesn't back up that claim, for some reason. :eek:

Still no proof, K&N? Thanks!! :bellyroll:

Yes.....you are just repeating your claim. We get it. You like to attack claims but show no real world proof of your on.

Evasion noted, again!

1stToyota

07-22-2009, 02:21 PM

Yes.....you are just repeating your claim. We get it.

There's nothing you can do with it. The K&N link you provided shows no gain, advance 1 page to the K&N link I provided and they claim increased HP for the exact same P/N...they need to get their little claims in synch, it seems.

You like to attack claims but show no real world proof of your on.

You keep talking about real world proof on this thread and how everybody provided it to back up their claims...wrong...no one has provided ANY proof, yet they make claims, and you say they've all provided real world proof, all except me...nope, just opinions and statements, but no proof on this thread, so far. :tongue:

Evasion noted, again!

Quote:
stopped all harmful dust particles

= no proof

Maybe you have a Sherlock Holmes Jr kit & sensitive pink fingers, but w/o a UOA I don't believe the "all"...not in your extremely dusty conditions.

UOA yet, evader? :biggrin:

Spnak!!!

b_hickman11

07-22-2009, 02:31 PM

There's nothing you can do with it. The K&N link you provided shows no gain, advance 1 page to the K&N link I provided and they claim increased HP for the exact same P/N...they need to get their little claims in synch, it seems.

You keep talking about real world proof on this thread and how everybody provided it to back up their claims...wrong...no one has provided ANY proof, yet they make claims, and you say they've all provided real world proof, all except me...nope, just opinions and statements, but no proof on this thread, so far. :tongue:

= no proof

Maybe you have a Sherlock Holmes Jr kit & sensitive pink fingers, but w/o a UOA I don't believe the "all"...not in your extremely dusty conditions.

UOA yet, evader? :biggrin:

Spnak!!!

I already said it shows no gain at that link. So now you are repeating me! Remember the guy(that you have brought up a few times) that said he had a friend that has a Dynamometer and had tested the K&N's on some non-Yaris vehicles? That was a real world example. So you say no one has provided proof? But you have quoted this guy.....

Evasion still noted!

1stToyota

07-22-2009, 03:26 PM

I already said it shows no gain at that link. So now you are repeating me!

No, I'm just using your little link against you. Yes, it shows no gain, of course...until you click the P/N on that link...and then the claim switches to a sales pitch about increased hp, for that P/N...doesn't jive :thumbdown:

Remember the guy(that you have brought up a few times) that said he had a friend that has a Dynamometer and had tested the K&N's on some non-Yaris vehicles? That was a real world example.

Could very well be, but :bellyroll: ...that's not the proof you said it was. I see no Dyno results on this thread.

btw, that's just one example, you said all claims were proven, not just one:

Originally Posted by b_hickman11
The other people that have had claims, good or bad, also showed us proof. You are the only one with a claim that has no proof. Everyone else gave us real world examples.

Yes, examples...not the same as proof.

So you say no one has provided proof?

"You are the only one with a claim that has no proof."

Proof? Where?

Deflection still noted!

daf62757

07-22-2009, 04:29 PM

Must be a slow day in Oklahoma!

1stToyota

07-22-2009, 05:04 PM

...or a reeeeeeeeeeeeal boring way to spend a vacation in Texas!

Jobs for the day:
60,000 service ('05 Vibe) - finished
Fuel pump module ('00 Silverado) - finished
Sebring/possible oil pressure problem - just pulled in shop
Saturn coolant leak - hasn't got here yet

Yeah, it is slowing down some.

b_hickman11

07-22-2009, 08:49 PM

No, I'm just using your little link against you. Yes, it shows no gain, of course...until you click the P/N on that link...and then the claim switches to a sales pitch about increased hp, for that P/N...doesn't jive :thumbdown:

Could very well be, but :bellyroll: ...that's not the proof you said it was. I see no Dyno results on this thread.

btw, that's just one example, you said all claims were proven, not just one:

Yes, examples...not the same as proof.

"You are the only one with a claim that has no proof."

Proof? Where?

Deflection still noted!

I'm not talking about proof for YOUR claim. Like you said, other people have made claims on here and most of them have given proof to back it up. No one is going to take the time to post proof for your claim because no one cares about someone that runs their mouth but can't back it!

There have been a couple of people say that the K&N doesn't trap dirt well in another vehicle. Both of those people told real world stories about Jeeps and the results of K&N's being used. So there you go. CLAIMS!

Still evading I see!

1stToyota

07-23-2009, 01:20 PM

I'm not talking about proof for YOUR claim.

What are you rambling about, fanboi?

Like you said, other people have made claims

And you've made claims, I've made claims.

on here and most of them have given proof to back it up.

Wrong! They've given no proof, you've given no proof, I've given no proof...K&N has given no proof.

No one is going to take the time to post proof

Why should they? You didn't, I didn't.

for your claim because

Claim for the Avalon? Just as real world as any other on this thread.
Claim about K&N? Still valid so long as K&N keeps posting conflicting links for Yaris drop-ins, listing no gain on claim for increased HP on the power gain link, but then they state increased HP for that very same Yaris drop-in filter when you click the hyperlink.

no one cares about someone that runs their mouth but can't back it!

You, blow-hard? You stated that "all" dust is being filtered...back it with a UOA.

There have been a couple of people say that the K&N doesn't trap dirt well in another vehicle. Both of those people told real world stories about Jeeps and the results of K&N's being used. So there you go. CLAIMS!

Yes, real world "CLAIMS" to go along with my Avalon "CLAIMS!" ...or are your double-standards showing again?

Still evading I see!

No I'm not, bouncer.

btw, Chump, since you'll never figure this out on your own...because I kept you bouncing long enough on your vacation, I pocketed an extra $200.00 yesterday (mission complete), and that sort of renders you as useless to me now. :smile:

Try to enjoy the rest of your vacation, if you can, and be sure to let me know if K&N's claims for our Yaris drop-in replacement filter ever stops conflicting with each other...okay? :wink:

You can just PM me.

:thanks::burnrubber: