Took my Yaris back

[sammy]

We bought on sat. 7/18/09 at 4 pm 2 cars a 3 door HB and a 5 door HB same colors same options drove off with the 3 door and was told the 5 door will be here on mon.
Mon the sales guy calls and says can't get the 5 door in your color. Mom stops payment on the check drives the 3 door back to the dealer and hands em the keys and all paperwork says the deal was for 2 cars and you guaranteed you could get the second to me on monday the 20th. Gm come out with a big speal about how he wants to keep us and can get a white one and we are valued customers (bought a highlander limited in 03 all service done at the dealership since) and we live close blah, blah, blah. Mom says hold up your end and call us when the car is here and we walked, literally, we walked home I kid you not 1,1/2 miles it was a beautiful walk on a summer night right up until my little bro pissed his pants:eyebulge:
Anyways, yesterday tues. the 21st Gm calls and says we have a car it will be here wed. 7/22/09 and have about 200 miles because we got it from another dealer.
Mom says she could care less and we could go buy a Honda Fit should we ask the Gm for money off, a deal on oil changes, remote starters and spoilers, one more year on the warranty and 20,000 more miles what do you all think 200 hundred miles on a new car is like a dealer demo?

[IllusionX]

200miles is like a drive from a dealer to another.... ~200miles away.

they usually give up demos (at least, at my dealer) around 2000-3000miles.

[kuyachris84]

this is so funny... xD

what Toyota dealer did you walk home from?

[pennyracer]

sounds like you wont be going back to that toyota dealer for a long time !! and if you get another toyota some ware else will you have the balls to go back to that other dealer to have it serviced or do you have to go out of your way now ? but im with your mom dont take no shit when someone gives you there word its always business never personal :)) get down with your bad self

[yaris-me]

Dealer lie too easily. They should keep their agreements. Your mom has more balls than most men.:biggrin:

[R2D2]

Dealer lie too easily. They should keep their agreements. Your mom has more balls than most men.:biggrin:

+1. They only pull this crap because they think they'll get away with it. They shouldn't make a deal they can't fulfill.

R2

[Yaris Hilton]

Agree with all the above.

The dealer's really stuck now, because he's got a brand new 3 door Yaris that just became a used car.

Weren't there any bushes along the way for little brother?

[advocate]

You have the dealer right where you want them. There's a reason there's a guide to buying cars and that's because the sticker price is incredibly negotiable, it just depends on how much you want to work for a lower price.

The dealer knows you have the money for both cars and knows you want both cars but now also knows that he screwed up big time so use that to your advantage for sure. I would go for free tuneups for the first 20,000 miles if i were you or something similar.

Make sure to exploit the dealer well for all the times they've exploited poor hapless folks out of their money.

By the way, hating car salesmen and stingy Toyota dealers isn't the same as hating the Toyota name right? I hope not =)

[pennyracer]

the toyota dealer i got mine from deliverd it to my door step i never set foot in the dealship to do the deal and that was 150 miles each way and i will buy from them again so in my case kendal toyota eugene oregon is the best in my book some do it better than others i guess !! good luck are you still walking ?

[sammy]

No, not walking we have the highlander.
My moms pretty cool on the way home she said we would most likely get both cars still if the dealer did something to earn our loyalty back ie. lifetime oil/filter changes, price reduction $600.00, remote starters, rear spoilers something to make us want to continue to do business there again. There are other Toyota dealers as well as Honda etc.. within a 50 mile radius. We feel once you gain a loyal customer you've only completed half the task the true test is to keep them as well as their family and friends comming back especially in these times.
O'ya, there were some bushes close but not close enough. We were talking to some people along the way so we stopped to B.S. the little guy started to do the fire dance while saying he has to go NOW and mom telling him not to use the homeowners bush we were in front of he ran twards the others and did'nt make it.

[scape]

I wanted a black hatchback 5 spd, w/ aux input. that was my req. only one dealer had one at the time. I checked out a similar model, he said he would get it by monday- and basically berated and cornered me into buying it at 15k$. I told him there was no way in hell I would buy a yaris for that much money, and said this is rediculous how you are treating me (like some child literally) and said there is no possible chance of buying a car today because of his attitude (he was the dealership owner btw). so I got up and left just like that, in my absolute pos of a car. I waited 3 weeks figuring out what the hell to do and finally just went to a different dealer, the yaris called me haha, everything went smooth as butter and they ended up driving up that same black HB 5sp from the other dealer :D

anyways, go your mom, she rocks lol
who wears the pants? :D

[sammy]

Dad, dad wears the pants but before we get to dad we have to get past mom and like I tell the bro you better be on your games or your gonna go down in flames.
I will keep updating if anything happens.

[sammy]

this is so funny... xD

what Toyota dealer did you walk home from?

We had a nice stroll from Countryside to Lagrange.

[Deltasix]

I hate bargaining, probably coming from a background of sales, I find it to be pretty lame. The whole "look what I can get now," mentally just pisses me off.

If the dealer didn't live up to what they said they would do, in your opinion, then go to another dealer, or buy another car, or whatever. Why squeeze the dealer for things, especially if you'd rather not go back there?

Do the ultimate f-you to them, take your businesses elsewhere.

[Altitude]

Personally, I think she overreacted. He missed his "guarantee" by two days, big freakin deal, shit happens. Who knows - maybe the bead he had on your second car fell through because of some other idiots blunder. I don't see anything in that story to lead me to believe the dealer was out to get one over on you.

I've never quite understood all this animosity towards car dealers. I've never really had an issue with one.

[gokartride]

I've never quite understood all this animosity towards car dealers. I've never really had an issue with one.Same here.

[Dave]

Personally, I think she overreacted. He missed his "guarantee" by two days, big freakin deal, shit happens. Who knows - maybe the bead he had on your second car fell through because of some other idiots blunder. I don't see anything in that story to lead me to believe the dealer was out to get one over on you.

I've never quite understood all this animosity towards car dealers. I've never really had an issue with one.

Agreed.

[roxy1]

im just wondering, did you sign paperwork on the car you took home? and wouldnt the second car require separate paperwork (ie the signed paperwork wasnt for both cars, they would each have a separate contract). it seems if push came to shove, the first car is still yours, and they apparantly did get what you wanted, albeit late. just returning the car and paperwork doesnt make the first sales contract invalid. that is just my unexpert opinion.

if they have what you want, then go get it and dont give them any future business.

[chriswb]

Personally, I think she overreacted. He missed his "guarantee" by two days, big freakin deal, shit happens. Who knows - maybe the bead he had on your second car fell through because of some other idiots blunder. I don't see anything in that story to lead me to believe the dealer was out to get one over on you.

I've never quite understood all this animosity towards car dealers. I've never really had an issue with one.She didn't overreact. The dealer wasn't willing to try to get the second car until his mother walked.

[kuyachris84]

What color 5 dr r u looking for? I know my dealer by me... has several 5 doors. Red, black, silver, carmine red....

[Kal-El]

I work at a dealer and have a few points...

First off, the 200 miles is very typical. Dealers swap lots of cars and I've seen swaps come in with over 500 miles on them (cars that have been moved twice) and sold at full new price.

Remember that it already costs the dealer money that they are not charging you to do this swap as a favor for you. They want to sell you what they have on the lot.

As someone pointed out, these are two different deals. Sounds like the deal on the first one is final even though they made a mistake on the second.

I don't understand the mentality that you should ring the dealer dry because of an error that probably wasn't even the salesperson's fault.

I'm not trying to defend the dealer but mistakes happen because a lot of people have their hands in the pot and sometimes there's communication problems. Just remember that dealers are just trying to service especially now. They shouldn't be expected to provide years of free oil changes for being 2 days late on a delivery.

[eric81]

The dealer should not have made the deal he couldn't keep. It isn't even something silly, but the fact that the car wasn't there to start with, he should NEVER have promised a date he couldn't guarantee. He should have put it a few more days out and called you with good news if it came in early, or drove there himself the day of and got the car, instead of making excuses. That stupid mistake is probably going to cost him his job, and if you go after him ,his license. Also, the non delivery of the car is probably the other dealers laziness, so you are actually going to help out the bad person if you do switch dealerships. Stay at the same place, and ask for the guy who is on the "Salesman of the Month" board more than once, or ask for the oldest guy there. They are usually the best, and can help you better than the rest of the guys.

[markitect]

My dealer is the same way. The lease on our first Yaris is up on Oct 2nd, so we went in to the dealer to see if the current deals would make an early switch worth it (we have 6k miles under the lease max).

The dealer first offers to roll the negative equity into the new lease (which was $1500 because of a banged up door the insurance replaced). At which point I point out to them that I know that is more money then the remainder of my payments.

Then they offer to roll my last 3 payments into the new lease. At which point we say no, we will just wait and see what deal they are offering in a few months. Then he makes a big deal out of the fact that there may not be a deal. We point out that the deal would not completely cover the extra payments they want to roll in.

Now the dealer rambles on about how someone is going have to pay the extra cost, to which I replied you are going to have to pay some of it if you want my loyalty as a customer.

Thankfully there are 3 dealers within 15 min of where I live.

Now we are debating on whether to try the dealer with the sales guy that profusely uses profane language. Or the dealer that when were looking at leasing the first one tried the ohh I'll get your keys from the trade-in value person, and a manager comes out to pester you about the car some more because your not signing anything today.

[2009Toyotoad]

Its hard to believe that in this economy a Toyota dealer is doing so badly at customer service on a two car deal. Toyota has indicated that there will be dealership cuts in the near future. Let's hope that this dealer makes the list. It is illegal in several states to attempt to sell items you don't have at least merchants title (inventory title) too. It's called "conversion."

Now I'm sure some dealer want to be is going to flame this post because I'm ignoring the franchising floor plan rules. Check with the GM or better yet the principle, floor plan rules don't apply once the paperwork is signed. At that point the UCC applies.

The ball is in your court, and barring a referral to the District Attorney's office you should be able to make a very good deal.

[RABYARIS]

Personally, I think she overreacted. He missed his "guarantee" by two days, big freakin deal, shit happens. Who knows - maybe the bead he had on your second car fell through because of some other idiots blunder. I don't see anything in that story to lead me to believe the dealer was out to get one over on you.

I've never quite understood all this animosity towards car dealers. I've never really had an issue with one.

I understand it...at this current moment I have been waiting 2 weeks to get my $1,000 deposit back on a car that the dealership is 10 weeks late on the promised delivery date. I have spoken to the Finance Manager four times, the Sale Manager twice and today I am going to call the General Manager. If the money is not in my hand by Friday, I will go to small claims court on Monday.:evil:

[gokartride]

I understand it...I guess it depends on one's experience. I've tried to deal fairly w/ dealers and have had great luck w/ this approach that has continued long after the sale....but that's if screw-ups are within a certain tolerance. I can't understand blatantly making a promise of a car and then not being able to deliver within a day or two of what was promised. If their delivery system is out-of-whack...fine...don't make unrealistic promises. I waited six to seven weeks for my previous two cars, but I knew up front exactly what I was in for and why....no problem.

[Altitude]

I understand it...at this current moment I have been waiting 2 weeks to get my $1,000 deposit back on a car that the dealership is 10 weeks late on the promised delivery date. I have spoken to the Finance Manager four times, the Sale Manager twice and today I am going to call the General Manager. If the money is not in my hand by Friday, I will go to small claims court on Monday.:evil:

Fair enough, but ten weeks is a hell of a lot different than two days.

Nevertheless I think half the problem with dealers is that people go in expecting to be screwed and adopt a poor attitude from the start. I'm not sayingg that there aren't some bad dealers out there, I just think the situation as described by the OP didn't warrant the response from his Mother. Especially considering we don't have all of the facts.

[supmet]

lol @ people defending the dealers... It's almost cute.

@ the OP, stick it to the man, because he's gonna stick it to you every chance he gets.

[RABYARIS]

Went to my mail box today and guess what...my deposit check was in the mail. The God's must be smiling on me or at least reading this message board.:thumbup:

I guess I am tuff on dealerships because of my personal experiences and some of the scams they have put on the consumers. Anybody remember "Rusty Jones"?

[POORSHA]

Why not get everything you can get out of the dealer? They also have the option of saying no. I am sure the dealer never charged more than sticker for a Prius when they were the hot car.

[gman2000]

NEVER buy a car that has been "dealer swapped." If you do, ask for a flatbed tow. We all know that engines have a break in period, I can assure you, the guy behind the wheel wasn't a 65 year old man that drives slow. The "kids" that work at these dealerships might think, "This car is as good as sold" so they put it through the paces. Always buy a car that you can see, that's my motto, and never leave a "down payment" and come back for the car later either, if they smack into your car while they are waiting for the rest of your money, and you noticed that your car has been hit before you even bought it, if you back out, they may keep your deposit because you can't prove the car didn't have the damage when you first looked at it.

Would you buy a "new" blender that has been purchased, used to blend a couple of smoothies and God knows what else, then returned to the store and put back on the shelf? Would you purchase a "new" pair of sneakers that have been worn once or twice, returned to the store and now you get to wear them? Not really new is it? 5 miles max, from the assembly plant, onto the truck, then onto the barge, then off the barge, then onto another truck, then onto the dealer lot, that's new.

[Kal-El]

NEVER buy a car that has been "dealer swapped." If you do, ask for a flatbed tow. We all know that engines have a break in period, I can assure you, the guy behind the wheel wasn't a 65 year old man that drives slow. The "kids" that work at these dealerships might think, "This car is as good as sold" so they put it through the paces. Always buy a car that you can see, that's my motto, and never leave a "down payment" and come back for the car later either, if they smack into your car while they are waiting for the rest of your money, and you noticed that your car has been hit before you even bought it, if you back out, they may keep your deposit because you can't prove the car didn't have the damage when you first looked at it.

Would you buy a "new" blender that has been purchased, used to blend a couple of smoothies and God knows what else, then returned to the store and put back on the shelf? Would you purchase a "new" pair of sneakers that have been worn once or twice, returned to the store and now you get to wear them? Not really new is it? 5 miles max, from the assembly plant, onto the truck, then onto the barge, then off the barge, then onto another truck, then onto the dealer lot, that's new.

Actually, most dealer drivers are retirees who are back working part time.

And good luck getting the model, color, features, and everything else you want on the lot with 5 miles or less. That is like winning the lottery.

I've seen many cars even roll off the truck (from the factory) with more than 5 miles on it. Then the dealer is required to road test it and gas it up (PDI) which is another couple of miles. Then, many models are test driven any time a customer is interested in a particular model where the demo won't do. And in my experience, about 25% of our new cars are swapped in with 50-300 miles on them.

[etheliters]

I agree it's all business. Make them cut or settle for satisfaction of what you wanted origonally and never return again. IMO

[Jem_hadar]

The God's must be smiling on me ...

"gods" :wink: lol

Sorry, couldn't help myself. :cool:

[talnlnky]

Actually, most dealer drivers are retirees who are back working part time.

And good luck getting the model, color, features, and everything else you want on the lot with 5 miles or less. That is like winning the lottery.

I've seen many cars even roll off the truck (from the factory) with more than 5 miles on it. Then the dealer is required to road test it and gas it up (PDI) which is another couple of miles. Then, many models are test driven any time a customer is interested in a particular model where the demo won't do. And in my experience, about 25% of our new cars are swapped in with 50-300 miles on them.

Mine had 14miles, and I highly suspect it came from a dealership which was about 10-12miles away.

under 5 doesn't sound too crazy if you live in Washington (where I bought it)

[Kal-El]

Mine had 14miles, and I highly suspect it came from a dealership which was about 10-12miles away.

under 5 doesn't sound too crazy if you live in Washington (where I bought it)

< 5 miles on a new purchase happens but one shouldn't expect it. Most of our non-swapped new deliveries average 5-15 miles. I've seen very few get delivered with less than 5 miles.

And why argue a few miles when your Toyota will go 400,000 miles.

[2bad4u]

[QUOTE=Kal-El;359657]Actually, most dealer drivers are retirees who are back working part time.

and I suppose little old ladies as well
:thumbdown:

[Kal-El]

and I suppose little old ladies as well
:thumbdown:

I've only seen a few women out of the 40-50 drivers I've dealt with. Most of the drivers are indeed between 50 and 65 years of age.

[Yaris Hilton]

Anyway, the best way to break one in is to drive it. No special treatment.

[ddongbap]

I've only seen a few women out of the 40-50 drivers I've dealt with. Most of the drivers are indeed between 50 and 65 years of age.

TRUE fricking that.

[Jem_hadar]

I've only seen a few women out of the 40-50 drivers I've dealt with. Most of the drivers are indeed between 50 and 65 years of age.

All the drivers (that I've seen) at my Toyota dealership are def like retirees just doing some relaxed, part-time work for extra money in their retirement.

[ern-diz]

Anyway, the best way to break one in is to drive it. No special treatment.

amen...i drove mine back and forth to las vegas, twice, shortly after getting it...cruisin nicely at speeds varying between 70-90mph...i'm about to reach my 22k mile oil change and she purrrrs like a happy little synthetic oil fed kitten lol

[auxmike]

My car had 7 miles before I test drove it,and 8 after the test drive.:tongue:
Guess it's was'nt switched around much.....

[A-tron]

Dealer lie too easily. They should keep their agreements. Your mom has more balls than most men.:biggrin:

Most men, shit more like any one that I know. GO MOM!

[sammy]

Hello all, thanks for the replies. Heres an update.
The 4 door HB has 235 miles on it. It has the auto trans. and CP, CL, KE, PQ, CF options. Price is 14,998 before rebate of 750 and TTL.
The 3 door HB has 17 miles and the same options and is 14,864 before rebate of 750 and TTL.
Mom, just left from the dealer and told em she will let them know first thing in the morning.

Dad says the 200 miles (distance from the other dealer where they got the car from) is a common thing with new car dealer trades so really its up to mom if she wants to go through with the purchase or not and at this point she said she'll sleep on it.
Are these good prices compared to what others here have paid?

[gman2000]

Actually, most dealer drivers are retirees who are back working part time.

And good luck getting the model, color, features, and everything else you want on the lot with 5 miles or less. That is like winning the lottery.

I've seen many cars even roll off the truck (from the factory) with more than 5 miles on it. Then the dealer is required to road test it and gas it up (PDI) which is another couple of miles. Then, many models are test driven any time a customer is interested in a particular model where the demo won't do. And in my experience, about 25% of our new cars are swapped in with 50-300 miles on them.

As for "retirees" working at dealerships, I have yet to meet one, everyone is between 18-40, including the managers. Maybe you are talking about Dodge dealerships... :wink:

If I REALLY REALLY NEED A SPECIFIC COLOR and I want to be picky about it, I would locate the car myself, there is the Internet for this, and I would pick it up myself. Someone that buys a car with 100 miles on it as "new" doesn't know enough about cars or automobiles in general to make that decision, when I test drive a car, I put it through it's paces, it gets funny looks from the salesguy sitting next to me esp. when he grabs the "oh shit" bar and asks me to go back to the lot... I know i'm not buying THAT car, but one like it, with 5 miles or less. Revs reaching the 6,000 mark are not good for any new engine, read the owner's manual.

I've never seen a dealer road test any car, and I have bought new cars with 1/2 tank of gas, call me stupid for not asking for a full tank, but that is usually the least of my worries when I buy a car. Actually I got a gas card when I bought my Yaris, now that I think about it.

But, ce la vie (is that how you spell it?) there are those that will still buy a 200 mile "new" car and not expect any premature cylinder wear or valve taps due to mishandling of the vehicle at its onset.

Don't get me wrong... knock off 3k-5k from the sticker price and I will consider a "new" 200 miles vehicle anyday.

:laughabove:

[gman2000]

I wouldn't buy any new car with more than 5 miles on it. If i'm going to drive a new car with pot hole marks on my wheels, i'm going to make sure I put them there... lol

Also, I read your first post way back, sounds like your mom might've pissed someone off at the dealership... how do you think they are going to treat your car now? lol

It's like the story of, "Never piss off the teenager working at McDonald's", because once you do, everytime you come back, he's gonna spit in your Big Mac.

I noticed the only ppl on here defending "dealer trades" are the ppl that work at the dealerships, LMAO. The very same ppl that sit down with you when you want to buy a car and the first question that comes out of their lips is "How much can you afford to pay per month?"

[eric81]

Why not get everything you can get out of the dealer? They also have the option of saying no. I am sure the dealer never charged more than sticker for a Prius when they were the hot car.

Believe it or not, but there is almost no mark up on the Prius. I lost 2 sales in the past week because the people asked for the best possible price on the Prius, and I had to tell them that the price on the sticker WAS the best price. Both felt lied to, and walked away, but we don't mark the price up one bit. We don't even make a deacent profit on the car as a dealer. It's kinda sad actually, that is why I don't push the car for sale as much as I push the other cars. I still try to sell it, I just don't push as hard as I do with the others, because I know when it comes down to negotiating all the figures, most people will walk feeling lied to. It sucks for me, because if they don't buy, I don't get paid. I am doing fine selling the rest of the vehicles, and have 1 of almost every other car sold. I am still working on the Yaris and the Camry. And I LOVE the Yaris, but we only have two left on the lot, and people argue the value of the Camry vs the value of the SUV's to me, and I try to explain, but most people don't want to listen and form their own opinions. Still, I do urge people to come in and look at the cars, just for knowledge sake, and look at REAL facts, like how 4 of the top 10 Americanized vehicles are Toyota's. That means that the parts are made here, the cars are assembled here, and the vehicles are sold here. A lot of the American cars are being handled in Mexico or Canada now. Also, Toyota's are the most dependable and fuel efficient full car line up in America. The facts stand, regardless of what Motor Trend or those other magazines say. Look at the second and third pages, and see who's car got the full page spread, and that's who paid for the magazine. It is almost NEVER Toyota, and that is why they bash them. And I will gladly put any one of my Toyota's next to a comparable vehicle of ANY brand and let you decide which one is better in value, safety, fuel efficiency, and in dependability. :biggrin:

[eric81]

I wouldn't buy any new car with more than 5 miles on it. If i'm going to drive a new car with pot hole marks on my wheels, i'm going to make sure I put them there... lol

Also, I read your first post way back, sounds like your mom might've pissed someone off at the dealership... how do you think they are going to treat your car now? lol

It's like the story of, "Never piss off the teenager working at McDonald's", because once you do, everytime you come back, he's gonna spit in your Big Mac.

I noticed the only ppl on here defending "dealer trades" are the ppl that work at the dealerships, LMAO. The very same ppl that sit down with you when you want to buy a car and the first question that comes out of their lips is "How much can you afford to pay per month?"

I don't ask that... I ask what they do, if they have a large or small family, what they are looking for (car, truck, SUV, van), what they want in a vehicle, and if they want new or used. Maybe that is why I am not going to win the employee of the month, but my customers leave happy and comfortable, or leave in the same car they drove in knowing they aren't in over their heads, and I try to find something they will be happy in. It's not about how much you can afford, because I have sold some really inexpensive vehicles to some very rich people. 2 have even paid cash. If you do tell me a price, I stick to it. Plain and simple. I even go out of my way if I don't have it and see if I can find it. But, I am not making salesman of the month, either.

[Jem_hadar]

But, ce la vie (is that how you spell it?) there

C'est la vie.

[sammy]

UPDATE: we are not yaris owners yet :(
Today at 9 am mom goes to the dealer to go ahead with the deal and the leader of the sales guys says yep we still want your business lets do it then tells mom they want a cashiers check because she stopped payment on the first one and stiffed em, mom replied we'll if I did'nt would you have found the second car I wanted, optioned the way I wanted and in the color I wanted like you said you would/could if I did'nt?
The salesmans fearless leader (with his cape waving in the air) said we'll we did did'nt we? mom said yes of course you did once I brought the first car back and told you I stopped payment, the deal was for the two (2) cars as discussed and if you cannot do as you say you can the deal was off, then she said she's had enough with them (calmly) told em have a nice day and we'll take our business elsewhere as we left.

[Revsson]

I think your mom has taken this a little too far. :iono:
If they had the two cars at the price she agreed to, then why haggle over a cashier's check? :confused:
Did I get this correct that this dealer is someone you have been using in the past and
have had work done? Overall you were happy with the dealer before this?

I guess I was lucky. There was some "miscommunication" with my salesman, but
we straightened it out. The car I wanted was not on the lot. Turns out that another
dealer wanted a Yellow one on my dealer's lot, so they traded. The other dealer
trailered my car up there. The odometer read 7 miles when I picked it up. I guess I
agree with your dad about the mileage. When I was searching other dealers in my
area, I actually found the car I wanted locally, so was thinking that maybe they would
trade locally and have about 25 miles on it.

I also ended up paying a little more because the car had keyless entry power package
and cruise, which wasn't a high priority, but I really like it now. Of course, after finding
out about ScottC's $10 cruise mod, I would have tried that if I didn't have factory cruise. :thumbup:

Anyway, best of luck to you and hope that you (and mom) finally get a Yaris. :tongue:

[eric81]

Okay... for the whole mileage thing, most cars do have less than 25 miles on them, that means they were probably at that dealer the whole time. Dealers tend to test drive certian ones more than others, because people ask to test drive certian ones more than others. More than that, and it has either ben on the lot a long time, or has been driven from one lot to the other. PROBABLY. Now, I know I take all my customers on a 3 to 5 mile test drive and don't complain if they accidently squeak the tires a little, or hit the brakes kinda hard. I would do the same if I was going to be buying it. I want to know the car CAN stop if needed, and does have some get-up-and-go. Now, I am not robbing a bank and doing fast-and-furious stunts, mind you, so ne harm is done in my test drives. If a customer does do harm ,I tell them to pull over immedeatly, I drive back, alert the sales managers, and the see if any damage has been done, and how much, then decide if they need to charge the guy or tell him goodbye.

[Revsson]

... Now, I am not robbing a bank and doing fast-and-furious stunts, mind you, so ne harm is done in my test drives. ...

If you do decide to test drive it this way,:laughabove: be sure to get a video from
the cop's dash cam as he chases you.