Replace the speakers? or the HU?

[twiceover]

Today I realized that the sound system is absolutely horrible. I'm not one for big bumpin' stereos, in fact they are fvcking annoying IMO. Anyway, I don't want to lose the stock look. Anyone think just replacing the speakers would bring an improvment?

Also, I don't use the CD player, mostly just the AUX jack. I threw in a CD and it was just as bad.

Any ideas?

[bigsky2]

Replacing only the speakers will give you a minor improvement.

I strongly suggest changing the following (and not necessarily in this order):

- Head Unit with at least 2 pre-outs
- Speakers (fronts are good enough, front + rear if you wish)
- Install an amplifier to power your speakers (2 channel for your fronts, 4 channel if you are installing fronts and rears)

Head unit: Changing this from stock to aftermarket will push more on your speakers, and it will sound slightly better. Emphasis on slightly, as the stock speakers are rated 20W Max @ 4ohm. I think the RMS power is 5-10W @ 4ohm. The're really pathetic.

Head unit + speakers: Changing both your head unit and speakers to aftermarket units will work out nicely. Even running aftermarket speakers off deck power is better than Stock HU + Stock Speakers or Aftermarket HU + Stock speakers. Your new speakers will be receiving about 20-22W RMS power compared to the 5-10W RMS that the stock units can take.

Head unit + Speakers + Power Amp: This is the ideal setup. You will get clean power from your deck to your amp, and your amp will push cleaner and greater power to your speakers. This makes a remarkable difference.

[vodkalush]

i replaced my stock speakers and added a 600watt amp to power them, kept my stock headunit to keep stock look...*

sound = 100x's better

[bigsky2]

i replaced my stock speakers and added a 600watt amp to power them, kept my stock headunit to keep stock look...*

sound = 100x's better

Forgot to mention this option.

This works too, you just need a line out converter to get an amp to work with you stock HU.

It works because your HU is no longer pushing the power, your amp will.

[twiceover]

Yeah, replacing the HU really isn't that possible. I have the LCD integrated one so I would have to order the replacement pannels to go to a DIN type unit.

I'll have to look into the whole converter thing and an amp. I also would like to add a small sub box also. Just enough for me. Any suggestions adding this to the whole setup? Would I need multiple amps?

[vodkalush]

Yeah, replacing the HU really isn't that possible. I have the LCD integrated one so I would have to order the replacement pannels to go to a DIN type unit.

I'll have to look into the whole converter thing and an amp. I also would like to add a small sub box also. Just enough for me. Any suggestions adding this to the whole setup? Would I need multiple amps?

not sure about adding subs with multiple amps... i'm looking at doing that...
but if you dont want to get a lineout converter you can always get an amp that takes hi/lo inputs.

[paultyler_82]

For speakers and 1 sub you would need 2 amps, one 4 channel for the speakers and one D-class mono or 2 channel to power the sub with. You won't necessarily need a line-out converter, some amps have hi-level inputs on them... IMHO, even just replacing the speakers and running them off the stock HU, as long as you use a decent speaker, will sound better than the stock speakers.

[YarisPR]

I'am just waiting for the instalation money cause i got everything
speakers/ 2 power plants 800 & 1600 / parametric etc etc

[vodkalush]

why not not tackel the task yourself? its not all that hard, more or less just time consuming..

[Violin]

I'd replace the speakers first. That's what I did with mine while I waited for metra to make the install kit for the single DIN head unit. It was a huge improvement from stock. (I used MB Quart components.)

The head unit you can see so Toyota puts in a half-way decent one. Speakers are hidden and they put in junk.

I've never heard the stock speakers with an aftermarket head unit, but my guess is that the improvement wouldn't be as dramatic as new speakers/stock head unit. Speakers are the weakest link in any set up.

[argylesocks]

I'd replace the speakers first. That's what I did with mine while I waited for metra to make the install kit for the single DIN head unit. It was a huge improvement from stock. (I used MB Quart components.)

The head unit you can see so Toyota puts in a half-way decent one. Speakers are hidden and they put in junk.

I've never heard the stock speakers with an aftermarket head unit, but my guess is that the improvement wouldn't be as dramatic as new speakers/stock head unit. Speakers are the weakest link in any set up.

i would agree with this.

of course im also pretty jealous of yoru MB's :)

[Violin]

What these?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1103/rjenkie/9ff94be2.jpg

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[07WYarisRS]

Get two amps, (one 4 channel, and a mono amp) 4 new quality speakers and a sub. I would go with componentsd up from and two way in the rear.
For a sub you only need a single 10". A 4 ohm DVC sub allows for more wiring options.

Keep the OEM deck but run your speaker wires from the deck to the 4 channel amp then run the speaker wires to your speakers from the amp.
For a sub, splice into the speaker wires and run them to the sub amp. if your sub amp has high level inputs you can just splice into the speaker wires and run them to the amp. If your amp only has low level inputs you need to buy a line convertor.

[bigsky2]

What these?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1103/rjenkie/9ff94be2.jpg

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Hey Violin,
How do you like the imaging and soundstage with the tweeters mounted in that position?

I tested various locations to mount the tweeter and I found your location to be too bright for my tastes, even after tuning the amp and crossover appropriately.

[Violin]

I connected the tweeters to the -2 dB position to take some of the edge off. My 46 year old ears took care of the rest - your results may vary.

[johnnyfive]

also will greatly depend on the qualitys of the tweaters. just like how some tweaters can be aimed at your windshield and give great results, but other will just sound like crap in that same location.

[paultyler_82]

I still wanna see if I can manage a headrest mounted (Fiero style) or seat top mounted (Infiniti M style) speaker system... heh.

[nsmitchell]

How is the sound quality using the stock HU and a 4 channel amp using a high level converter? I have a Blaupunkt PA4100 that comes with its own converter. I know I will lose my fader control, but I'm more concerned about sound quality. Anyone know?

[paultyler_82]

How is the sound quality using the stock HU and a 4 channel amp using a high level converter? I have a Blaupunkt PA4100 that comes with its own converter. I know I will lose my fader control, but I'm more concerned about sound quality. Anyone know?

Actually... if you use Hi-Level inputs on an equipped 4-channel amp, I don't beleive you'll lose your fade control, I've never had that problem, anyway.

[07WYarisRS]

^ He's right
using high level inputs you keep the ability to fade F~R and R~L

[mhero]

Personally, I recommend replacing "speakers" first
then HU ... my Yaris got 5-ch amp, 2 pairs of new speakers
and a subwoofer speaker

Guess what? the quality of sound got way better but not yet
impressive 'coz of the HU

So, afterall, HU needs to be replaced to rock the system!!

http://www.yarismaniac.com/index.php?showtopic=282

[bigsky2]

Damn right, the HU will make a dramatic improvement.

Higher voltage preouts for the win, and make sure your deck is enabled with a function to turn OFF the INTERNAL amplifier to push out more power to the RCAs.

[IllusionX]

Damn right, the HU will make a dramatic improvement.

Higher voltage preouts for the win, and make sure your deck is enabled with a function to turn OFF the INTERNAL amplifier to push out more power to the RCAs.


uhhh.. turning off internal amp doesn't give more power to the pre-out RCA's.....

[ajae]

Here's what I did

Start with
4 channel Kenwood amp (I had a used one that I've owned for years)
12" sub in homemade box (I used MDF to keep it solid. It fits behind the rear seat on the liftback by sliding the seat forward about 1/2 and inch; I have the 60/40 split rear seat)
4X6 pioneer speakers mounted to lift-back rear deck (whatever you call it!)

Tap off the existing rear speaker wires as high level inputs into the amp off the stock deck. Run the right channel to the Right 'A' input and the left channel to 'B' input. Connect 'A' input to 4X6 speakers (yes you only get the right channel but bear with me, it gets even hokier). Then the left channel as a bridge/mono connection to the sub-woofer. Keep the stock rear speakers hooked up and the fronts the same. Use the low-pass filter on the 'B' input to keep the low frequencies to the sub and then the high pass filter for the little 4X6's on the rear deck.

Result: I've got small kids that don't like the thump of a sub (neither does my wife, so using the Fade control on the stock deck, I am able to remove the sub completely and still have music in the front while driving). Separating the channels allows me to have low-pass and high-pass from a single amp which fits under the front passenger seat. I have quick connectors for the rear deck speakers and the sub, so I can remove them in case I need to transport anything large and use the cargo area.

Now, that you've picked yourself off the floor from laughing so hard; remember, it's a low-budget job.

Love my Yaris.:thumbup:

[bigsky2]

uhhh.. turning off internal amp doesn't give more power to the pre-out RCA's.....

uhhh.. Yes it does.

It doesn't give a significant amount of power to the preouts. But it pushes cleaner and more stable power to the pre-outs than if your internal amplifier remained ON.

[nsmitchell]

If I go with a new HU, I will get the Panasonic CQ-VD6503U (DTS, Dolby Digital, 6.5" screen double-din). Speakers will be Panasonic CJ-DVD177. The Amp is a Blaupunkt PA4100 Digital Amp (Tripath) at 4X100W.
I think this system should be adequate. :biggrin: Tight is the word. :drool:

[bigsky2]

Nice equipment nsmitchell.

Or shall I say, TIGHT?

[Yaris-TJ]

Personally, I recommend replacing "speakers" first
then HU ... my Yaris got 5-ch amp, 2 pairs of new speakers
and a subwoofer speaker

Guess what? the quality of sound got way better but not yet
impressive 'coz of the HU

So, afterall, HU needs to be replaced to rock the system!!

http://www.yarismaniac.com/index.php?showtopic=282

I think this is the way to go if you don't want to lose the stock unit, and look.

2 new front + 2 new rear + low signal converter + 1-4 channel Amp.

This will give an improvement, still mantaining the stock HU, which I personally like, and proly keep for some months...:thumbup:

IMO, i don't plan to spend thousands of bucks on car audio, but I'd start with 100 for a fairly decent couple of 6x9 that I can get at Circuit city..I won't tell my wife! like a mexican saying " it's better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission":thumbup: :laugh:

[nsmitchell]

I like the Panny stuff. That HU I have my eye on (CQ-VD6503U) is about $500.00. I like it for the obvious reasons, but it also plays DVD-Rs with MP3s on them. I guess that's about 1700 songs at 5mb each, on a dual-layer DVD-R.
I hope nobody steals my system. I hate alarms! I might need a faux radio cover or something... also that unit can take modules like bluetooth, NAV and iPod and actually control the iPod from the HU. Supersweet for around 500 beans.:thumbup:

[IllusionX]

uhhh.. Yes it does.

It doesn't give a significant amount of power to the preouts. But it pushes cleaner and more stable power to the pre-outs than if your internal amplifier remained ON.


it's the heat and interference from the built in amp that create distortions. you still will not get more power through the pre-outs if you disable the internal amp.

a 4v pre-out will still be a 4v pre-out weither your built-in amp is on or off. to provide accurate lines, many manufacturers use DC-DC converters. see alpine or eclipse.

[bigsky2]

it's the heat and interference from the built in amp that create distortions. you still will not get more power through the pre-outs if you disable the internal amp.

a 4v pre-out will still be a 4v pre-out weither your built-in amp is on or off. to provide accurate lines, many manufacturers use DC-DC converters. see alpine or eclipse.

Not necessarily.

As I've repeated before, turning off the internal amp does provide more power to the preout but not a significant amount.

I am not saying that a 4v preout will operate at 5v after turning off the internal amp.

What I am trying to say is that the preout will operate at its optimal levels closest to its highest maximum output, say 4v, when the internal amplifier is off.

Use a multimeter and see this for yourself. The rca preout will never operate a constant stable 4V or whatever it is specified to be. There will always be fluctuations with the output. When the internal amp is off, it will operate near the maximum output at a better rate. This is what I mean when I said that it would push out more power to the RCAs, not generate a higher preout.

So instead of operating at 3.4~3.6v, the preout will operate at 3.7~3.8v.

[bigsky2]

I know about DC-DC converters as I own an Eclipse amp myself :wink:

DC-DC Converters are used to provide higher rail-to-rail voltage to generate much higher output power for the amplifier. Typically a car battery only provides 12~13.5v which is not nearly enough to power 4 speakers running at 100w rms each. The solution is to step up the voltage from the battery to something higher, usually balanced pos/neg rails for the amplifier itself.

This has nothing to do with the head unit's preouts, as the head unit's preouts have a supply current of their own.