Looking Into Turbo

[RacerFreakXXX]

I'm trying to do my research before I even commit to going turbo. I'd rather go turbo than supercharger, just my preference. However if turbo is too much of a hassle I'll back off. Looked around and everything is a little shaddy and reading different things here and there. Here are my questions:

1.What parts of the xa/xb 1NZFE GREDDY turbo kit can be used?
2.Can E-manage plug and play work with the stock ecu for 7psi?
3.Can you use any plug and play for the yaris?
4.If plug and play can't be used, I assume AEM standalone is your only option?
5.Will anything need to be done to the motor if you are running 7psi?
6.What is the general price of everything needed for 7psi?(directed at you garm, I am assuming you have done the most research, I am looking to spend 4k roughly)

My goal is about 150whp give or take, and I'm not trying to complicate things and make some super race car. I just want a good amount more whp for daily driving. By next spring I'll have wheels, coilovers, exhaust, brakes, seats, ect. I am already expecting to spend 1k on gauges and about 6k on everything else but the turbo.

[cali yaris]

First off, plug 'n play and piggyback are two different things. Piggybacks are units (like Emanage) wired to the stock ECU and take over certain functions (like fuel management, timing, etc.)

They are wired by hand OR come with a "plug 'n play" harness so they just plug in.

Some of your questions have to do with using plug 'n play, so I though I would clarify what the words mean first.

Next, who is going to tune your car? A turbo on a Yaris is a custom project by definition (there is no "plug 'n play" kit, yet). Someone will be doing wiring, installing and finally tuning. If you don't have someone pro to do the work, you're not ready to start (unless you're going to do it all yourself).

[Tamago]

dude,

search


use it.

this has been beaten into the ground.

[cali yaris]

^ never mind him. Some of us are perfectly willing to answer questions, even if they have been covered before.

[ChinoCharles]

1.What parts of the xa/xb 1NZFE GREDDY turbo kit can be used?
Most likely the manifold and turbo. Thats probably it.
2.Can E-manage plug and play work with the stock ecu for 7psi?
It isn't plug and play. We think it can work.
3.Can you use any plug and play for the yaris?
Not to my knowledge.
4.If plug and play can't be used, I assume AEM standalone is your only option?
Wire up a piggyback or a standalone. Not necessarily AEM. Megasquirt, etc.
5.Will anything need to be done to the motor if you are running 7psi?
We don't think so but there is always the chance it may blow up. As with any FI application on a stock block, boost at your own risk.
6.What is the general price of everything needed for 7psi?(directed at you garm, I am assuming you have done the most research, I am looking to spend 4k roughly)
You should be able to get away under 4 grand.

[RacerFreakXXX]

Garm, thank you for clearing up plug and play. The sad thing is that I meant piggy back but I was reading something that said plug and play and got the word stuck in my mind.

My whole concern is that if I can just buy the greddy kit and use the turbo, turbo manifold, and downpipe I'll be happy, that's all I'm really concerned about. I just don't want the car ripped apart sitting in a shop that I can only visit once or twice a month. I know a few places the tune cars well. I just don't know if being able to tune your normal import car means you can tune a yaris. Does it?

I know this stuff has probably been covered but I am to lazy to go more than a few pages deep in the search. I've read my fare share of stuff and it seems like no one has wired up a piggy back or really gotten into detail about it. Also soldering the right wires together doesn't bother me and the only thing I'd have someone do is make piping and tune the car. I helped my friend with hooking his turbo up to his civic, and he took his sweet ass time with the thing too. I mean is it even worth it to consider going turbo with everything that is known about the yaris so far?

[cali yaris]

I just don't want the car ripped apart sitting in a shop that I can only visit once or twice a month.

Expect that. Then if it doesn't happen, you'll be extremely pleased.

it seems like no one has wired up a piggy back or really gotten into detail about it

One sucess with the AEM FIC (I failed), chino's got management, Tamago had management. And then there are all the overseas guys with Yaris turbos that seem to run quite well.

is it even worth it to consider going turbo with everything that is known about the yaris so far?

It's a project and not many have done it (with the Yaris in the USA, to be clear). Are you prepared for glitches, challenges and snags before she runs right and works as a daily driver? Can you be without your car? For how long before it's not worth it to you?

[CASTREX]

Is got to be worth it. A 100whp Yaris is fun to drive now imagine a 150whp yaris? It should be a blast with an upgraded suspension and brakes...

I'm going turbo myself... if you take your time looking for the parts you can do it for cheap.

The scion Greddy and HKS kits are also a good option! The manifold and the turbo will work on those kits... the downpipe wont't mate with our stock exhaust. You can either modify the Dp or modify the exhaust. My guess is that wold be easier and cheaper to modify the exhaust.

Another option... check out the 365motorwerks xb kit. http://www.365motorwerks.com/completeturbokits.aspx

That seems to be a great looking kit for the money. Definetely a better bang for the buck than the Greddy or HKS kits...
You could talk to them and remove the parts that won't work like some of the piping, the FIC pnp harness, the injectors (you can get 2AZ or 2ZZ injectors cheaper). You could also ask for an unfinished downpipe so you can finish it and make it fit.

The AEM FIC is the best piggy back out there... if people can tune a boosted yaris with a greddy blue... then the FIC should be able to do the work.
There are a couple of members who claim succesfull installations... they just don''t post much about it. But I have been in contact with a couple of guys and I'm confident we can make it work...

Go for it.:w00t:

[rkvin21]

I wouldn't buy a turbo kit for that much money just for the manifold and turbo. You can get an xB manifold from ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/03-06-SCION-XB-XA-1.5L-CAST-T25-TURBO-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD_W0QQitemZ220446825782QQcmdZViewItem(its a little out of date but shows newer items of the same) pretty cheap and I've seen this one website where you can buy lots of turbo parts(cheap piping from what I know) from http://www.max-redline.com. You can even find the same turbo that Garm has for around $1000. I will be going along the same route as well and reading this forum has taught me a lot of valuable information on forced induction. When I make my turbo set up I will be only starting with 6psi and no management. Don't know if anyone has tried this yet but I figured that the supercharger is at 6psi and I believe some members don't have management so I don't see why not. 4k is definitely plenty for a turbo. If I had that right now I'd be boosted within the week lol.

[ChinoCharles]

I'll bet if someone called one of these shops and pitched the idea of creating some piping to make them fit the Yaris they'd budge. It would be minimal R&D on their part and would solve a problem we've had. Its time we had a go-to turbo kit.

[changchewsoon]

Just my 2 cents.

1.What parts of the xa/xb 1NZFE GREDDY turbo kit can be used?
Most probably just the turbo, manifold, oil pan, E-Manage unit.

2.Can E-manage plug and play work with the stock ecu for 7psi?
If you opt for the E-Manage Ultimate there is a plug and play harness for 1NZ-FE however thats only JDM ECU, not too sure about USDM.

If you go E-Manage Blue instead, you'll have to do custom wirings.

3.Can you use any plug and play for the yaris?
Haven't seen any in the market so far. But if you plan to use Haltech Platinum, Vipec or Autronic I can try to get the wiring diagrams for you.

4.If plug and play can't be used, I assume AEM standalone is your only option?
AEM standalone is highly possible, we have a couple of Yaris here running Haltech Platinum Sport standalone, Autronic SM4 standalone and a Vipec V44 and V88.

5.Will anything need to be done to the motor if you are running 7psi?
I'm currently boosting 9 psi on stock internals, but i've got my custom pistons and connecting rods ready for engine rebuild. Been running for a year+ without any issues so far.

6.What is the general price of everything needed for 7psi?(directed at you garm, I am assuming you have done the most research, I am looking to spend 4k roughly)
I spent more than 4K USD, but thats just me. :smile:

[Tamago]

i say buy the HKS kit that's been talked about off and on in this very forum.

that + meth injection and you don't need any extra fancy piping. it's a more-complete kit than the greddy

[cali yaris]

^ +1, that kit looks better to me too.

[ChinoCharles]

<chant>Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it</chant>

[Tamago]

<chant>Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, do it</chant>

<chant>doitquickbeforeyoutotalthisonetoo!!!</chant>

[ChinoCharles]

Hey, don't steal my hypothetical HTML tags you a-hole. :laugh:

[eTiMaGo]

it's XML, you can define whatever tags you want!

[CASTREX]

That is a great suggestion...

Stage 0 turbo plus a Meth kit. This you could do for real cheap!... imagine the spool up of that turbo with virtually no pipes...

You could probably get around 140whp lag free @6psi... perhaps even more depending on the turbo you choose...

Let's see:

GT25R $900
Revhard Mani $200
AEM Meth kit $400
1zz/2zz injectors $75
Blowoff/ by pass valve $75 (if you use a bosch diverter)
Downpipe $?? couple hundred?

Around $1800-$1900 for an operating kit. Could be less if you choose a cheaper or a second hand turbo.

Nice to haves:
Wide band Innovate/AEM $200
Boost gauge: $50
AEM FIC $400

And good to go!

[cali yaris]

LOL @ hypothetical HTML

[cdydjded]

1.What parts of the xa/xb 1NZFE GREDDY turbo kit can be used?
No one really knows 100% the answer to this it has not been tried by anyone here, the xB & Yaris only share the engine, the engine bay is completely different
2.Can E-manage plug and play work with the stock ecu for 7psi?
Greddy does make a PNP for the Emanage Ulimate for the Yaris, it is only sold thru Trust in Japan
3.Can you use any plug and play for the yaris?
See above, Boomslang is working on a PNP harness at this time
4.If plug and play can't be used, I assume AEM standalone is your only option?
No need to go to a standalone at low boost, will it run better yes, many here are running with stock ecu's & have had good results

5.Will anything need to be done to the motor if you are running 7psi?
based on the results of the bo0sted cars so far 7psi wih stock inernals is OK
6.What is the general price of everything needed for 7psi?(directed at you garm, I am assuming you have done the most research, I am looking to spend 4k roughly)
Under 4k no problem

[ROCKLAND TOYOTA]

DIDN'T YOU CRASH OR GET RID OF YOUR CAR?

[Tamago]

1.What parts of the xa/xb 1NZFE GREDDY turbo kit can be used?
No one really knows 100% the answer to this it has not been tried by anyone here, the xB & Yaris only share the engine, the engine bay is completely different

my turbo setup bolted right up to a yaris, the downpipe needed about 1/2" adjustment to clear the subframe difference.

[CASTREX]

2 differences:

1) The exhaust manifold / exhaust aligment is a LITTLE diferent but according to Tamago is only 1/2 inch so it looks like an easy fix.

2) Intake orientation. But that should be an easy fix as well. Just get a couple extra bends and make the piece of pipe that goes into the TB if needed.

Go for it

[RacerFreakXXX]

Thank you guys for all the info, I appreciate it. Like I said again I've been glued to forced induction forum and I feel like garm is the only one with a turbo yaris that is actually explaining what he has done.

As for as me getting rid of my car, Well I got an 09 yaris 5speed because it was the only thing I could get approved for. I love the yaris so why not get it in 5speed this time. I love the car so much better, just needs a lot of mods to make it perfect.

What's the deal with the hks kit? From what I read you can only get it in Asia and it's like $7k, is that true? I mean if It was 4k and was meant for the yaris I would grab it next spring.

I don't have the money for the kit right now, and have other things I'm gonna do to the yaris first. However I want to find the right direction and plan everything out. I would be awesome if someone would just make a kit for the yaris. Even if it was 4k people would buy it. I'm going to continue looking into a turbo kit for the yaris, I just want to make sure it doesn't end up being something where I have to make everything from the ground up.

I wish garm would peice together a kit that includes turbo manifold, downpipe, intercooler, piping, intake, and oil pan for like 2-3k and you would just have to get the rest. :wink:

[cali yaris]

^ possible but not probable.

[Tamago]

What's the deal with the hks kit? From what I read you can only get it in Asia and it's like $7k, is that true? I mean if It was 4k and was meant for the yaris I would grab it next spring.

we're having a hypothetical thread with information you aren't gonna use for another almost-year :laugh::rolleyes:

the HKS kit for the xB is well under 2600 dollars.

just buy it. you won't be spending 1400 more to make it fit a yaris, i can guarantee that.

[RacerFreakXXX]

well it would be pointless to start in the winter, seeing as I don't have a 2nd car at the moment and no garage to stick the car in. I'm going to be moving this spring, so I hope to get an apartment with a garage so by fall of 2010 I should be able to start a turbo build.

You really think the hks kit is better than the greddy kit?

[cali yaris]

^ yes.

[AdeJong 03]

any links or ppl on the forum who have the hks kit?

that would be super fun.. i can just imagine the possibilities now

[TheRealEnth]

if i had cash or a good income.. i woulda jumped on the kit already and made it work =)

[cali yaris]

adejong, I believe there are three people with functioning turbos in a Yaris in the country, and all three are custom set ups. And several more from overseas.

If you're in LA, you're welcome to come by my shop in Canoga Park and see mine anytime.

[Kioshi]

If for some reason things don't workout for me in the summer, I seriously will have the money by end of April. Already racked up 1160, so if i can still get the HKS kit for 2600 or less, I'm in to be the guinea pig for this kit. And like Garm has said, i would need to fine someone who can tune it right? I don't mind having someone in SoCal finding me a trust worthy tuner to do the turbo setup there. I'll do the drive and back up w/ a scooter if i have to~

[JBIZZ]

Trying to post a split second tuning guide & ECM printout (pdf), which are used for a Rotrex install. This info should be helpful for a turbo install as well.

You'll need Boost & wideband air/fuel gauges, better spark plugs, and bigger fuel injectors. One problem is the speed at which the stock drive by wire throttle body opens, working on solving this issue with a magnetic actuator vs. servo motor. The install will still work with stock TB, just will not have as quick of a response. I am currently using the 1ZZ TB on my Rotrex install.

Theoretically, a turbo install could be achieved for @ $1000, if the parts are bought right.

[Tamago]

Theoretically, a turbo install could be achieved for @ $1000, if the parts are bought right.

yup
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118234

[RacerFreakXXX]

What's the deal with pistons? I cant' seem to find anything that's specific fit to the 1nzfe, are they all custom order? Also are the gains from a supercharger (with full exhaust and intake) the same as a turbocharger running an average of 7-8psi?

[cdydjded]

CP has pistons on the shelf & Crower has rods

[RacerFreakXXX]

so far this is what I am planning for a turbo build, and I still can't decide if it's worth it to build the internals and finding a turbo that has the exhaust facing the passenger side. Also this is just what, I've found that I am decided on. I'm going to price it down to the exact and go from there.

------------------------------------------------
motor: $500-$1000
Crower Rods: $800

CP Pistons 1NZFE/ 75mm bore/ 9.0:1 compression ratio: $600
(almost impossible to find at stock bore, yay ebay)

or

HP Engine Kit: $1000
- Complete Gasket Set
-Performance MLS Head Gasket
-ROSS/Wiseco Forged Pistons
(75, 75.5, 76mm) and
(8.5, 9.0, 9.5, 10.0 comp ratio)
-Plasma Moly Rings
-TOGA HP Main Bearings
-TOGA HP Rod Bearings
-Thrust Washers
------------------------------------------------

NST Lite Pulley Set(blue): $300
Perrin Fuel Rail: $200
Scion TC Injectors: $150 used
Exedy Stage 1 clutch(16800A): $300
Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel: $300
KAZZ LSD: $900
NST Short Shifter components: $300
Nitto Engine Torque Damper: $150

[Tamago]

good luck on the fuel rail. if you want 2AZFE injectors i'll sell my set for cheaper than 150

[RacerFreakXXX]

i'm just pricing things out right now, and going based on turbo aplication, because i want the downpipe on the passenger side so I don't have to deal with crazy intercooler and intake piping. If I have to get a custom manifold made then i will just wait till i have the money for another engine and build it up fully. Is there an issue with the fuel rail, i saw it fits on xb's and xa's?

[1nz]

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs130.snc1/5574_132046386130_592666130_3528591_6493720_n.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs143.snc1/5294_132477801130_592666130_3538287_6780863_n.jpg

Im also in process on installing an NCP31 HKS 1NZ-FE Bodykit on my yaris got the turbokit, rmanage ultimate n greddy pressure sensor, still saving to get an injector RC, FIC or Bosch/ Walbro 255lph fuel pump, double head gasket and custom piping

[Tamago]

i'm just pricing things out right now, and going based on turbo aplication, because i want the downpipe on the passenger side so I don't have to deal with crazy intercooler and intake piping. If I have to get a custom manifold made then i will just wait till i have the money for another engine and build it up fully. Is there an issue with the fuel rail, i saw it fits on xb's and xa's?

dude, if you want the turbo inlet to be on the passenger side........... turn it around and reclock the inlet side.

oh and do a top mount intercooler.

[mrbond]

^ yeah, just like the JDM NCP91. You'd probably need to either get a new hood, which would look awesome, or do some under-hood air rerouting.

[Nexus1155]

or just cut a scoop goin down into the IC and fiberglass/paint and call it a day

[CASTREX]

i'm just pricing things out right now, and going based on turbo aplication, because i want the downpipe on the passenger side so I don't have to deal with crazy intercooler and intake piping. If I have to get a custom manifold made then i will just wait till i have the money for another engine and build it up fully. Is there an issue with the fuel rail, i saw it fits on xb's and xa's?

You can do that with any T25 turbo and with a regular revhard manifold...

No need for anything custom for what you have in mind...

[RacerFreakXXX]

Actually a top mount intercooler is what I had in mind. I was thinking about using the kaminari hood and mount the intercooler in front of the engine.

http://www.ilovebodykits.com/images/products/K060515FC.jpg

My main concern with switching the turbo around is it not fitting, you seem to have a lot of space behind the engine so I would just feel more comfortable knowing that it would surely fit.

Aren't revhard manifolds the same quality as ebay? where would you pick one up?

Also I think i'd rather get a Turbinetech manifold imo.

http://www.turbinetech.ca/fichiers/p1090050___129___prod.jpg
http://www.turbinetech.ca/fichiers/p1090030___125___prod.jpg

[lilredrocket]

Look how close that is to the brake lines.

[changchewsoon]

CP Pistons 1NZFE/ 75mm bore/ 9.0:1 compression ratio: $600
(almost impossible to find at stock bore, yay ebay)

I would suggest that you might want to get the pistons slightly over sized, say 75.5mm rather then standard size at 75mm.

Due to wear and tear the cylinder bore might be a little worn out and hence a slightly over sized pistons will ensure the rings fit in nicely.

Best if you could get your mech to properly measure the bores to determine how much larger you need to go if you want to be really sure.

It is always better to be safe than sorry later, just my 2 cents.

By the way, I got my CP pistons from Race Engineering together with the piston rings and side skirt coating for less than USD 600. The compression ratio is 9.0 and the piston design is flat top.

[RacerFreakXXX]

now i've been comparing supercharger vs turbo cost and this is what i came up with is that for 2-3k i can get the hks turbo kit and for 3-4k i can get the blitz supercharger. My question is EMS, once again... I know I'm going to need a ems for the turbo but i see tons of people running the supercharger w/o. Now I can find a shop that will tune the yaris my question is if it's worth it to grab the hks kit, get some custom piping done with an intercooler and try and tune that or grab the supercharger and play it safe. I just have a gut feeling that a turbo would make my car go boom if something was slightly wrong with my setup and for the little extra the supercharger would be safe and easier to maintain in the long run. Am I just being paranoid and think I should go for the hks turbo? I'm not going to buy it till summer when I have a place to install the turbo.

Also I was comparing weight to power ratio against other cars and I found that with the supercharger you should technically be about as fast as a stock rsx type s or prelude and with the turbo you should be about as fast as a stock wrx( not the 09+ with 265bhp)

[1nz]

it could actaully beat the rsx s, tested against one of those

[RacerFreakXXX]

supercharger or turbo

[cali yaris]

get the TRD trans mount, you won't need the torque damper.

[Tamago]

now i've been comparing supercharger vs turbo cost and this is what i came up with is that for 2-3k i can get the hks turbo kit and for 3-4k i can get the blitz supercharger. My question is EMS, once again... I know I'm going to need a ems for the turbo but i see tons of people running the supercharger w/o. Now I can find a shop that will tune the yaris my question is if it's worth it to grab the hks kit, get some custom piping done with an intercooler and try and tune that or grab the supercharger and play it safe. I just have a gut feeling that a turbo would make my car go boom if something was slightly wrong with my setup and for the little extra the supercharger would be safe and easier to maintain in the long run. Am I just being paranoid and think I should go for the hks turbo? I'm not going to buy it till summer when I have a place to install the turbo.

Also I was comparing weight to power ratio against other cars and I found that with the supercharger you should technically be about as fast as a stock rsx type s or prelude and with the turbo you should be about as fast as a stock wrx( not the 09+ with 265bhp)

beating a dead horse here

top mount + meth injection + HKS kit (that comes with engine management)

skip the front mount

[RacerFreakXXX]

for intake and top mount intercooler i was thinking about running the intake tube up against the firewall and then use a wider diameter tube leading up to the intake and then putting a long thin intercooler more towards the front of the engine, over the intake manifold. Doing this would eliminate the issue of heat soak if you use a vented hood, such as c-one or kaminari. Also running an intake tube along the front of the engine would interfere with the radiator hosing. Opinions?

[Tamago]

do it.

i wont hate you for copying my setup either ;) if you so choose

[RacerFreakXXX]

I love your little custom turbo inlet (yes i searched the scion forums) and your bottom mount turbo design or even the super top mount but, custom piping is the furthest I'd go. I'm not going to start the build till next spring/summer. Like i said I have to use my buddies garage and a 93 240sx coupe is sitting in there ripped apart awaiting an sr and some power by max coilovers. I know he said he is fully building the car to race spec so I hope it's done by summer. Until then I'm gonna save and build :biggrin:

Honestly this is the exact turbo setup I want (found on changchewsoon's blog):

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m14/racerfreakxxx/my%20car/tutiya_2.jpg

link to original site, click NCP91 (http://www.phoenixs.co.jp/bigsite/home.html)
my translation:
-greddy turbo
-blitz sus intake
-hks f con pro
-custom turbo manifold, piping, and intercooler
-370cc injectors

I believe this is the infamouse zage kit with a greddy turbo and a blitz intake. After looking at the hks kit I am 99.9% sure it is a bottom mount kit, unlike the greddy kit. If that's so, that means I'm going to shoot for the same setup as in that pic.