Forced Induction and Engine Wear

[taracor]

I've been wondering if adding an aftermarket supercharger or turbo charger will have any detrimental effects on the engine. I know that it puts more stress on the engine, but will this decrease the engine's lifespan? Also, is there anything in terms of tuning that can be done to a boosted engine too increase/preserve longevity? I don't know much at all about forced induction, so I figured I'd ask and try to learn something.

[eTiMaGo]

rule of thumb: any modification you make for more power has a good chance of reducing longevity to some extent. That's the name of the game, if you don't like it, drive stock :biggrin:

That being said, with proper professional tuning and without aiming for crazy boost levels or driving with the pedal to the metal all the time, you can probably have an engine that will last years. I don't know enough to give you a more specific answer, but that's the general idea :smile:

[lilredrocket]

^Haha. I like your style!!

[cali yaris]

I know that it puts more stress on the engine, but will this decrease the engine's lifespan?

This question sort of answer itself, I think.

Also, is there anything in terms of tuning that can be done to a boosted engine too increase/preserve longevity?

yes
- minimize detonation with good tuning, good gas, proper spark plugs, etc.
- diligent maintenance + high quality fluids, gauges to hopefully catch a problem early and minimize it, etc.
- I'm sure others can come up with more. It's a good topic. :thumbsup:

[supmet]

^^ A fully built engine doesn't hurt either, eh Garm?

[cali yaris]

well yeah, there is that too. I didn't get the impression the OP wanted to go that deep, but maybe!

[ChinoCharles]

If you aren't a mechanic or don't have experience with forced induction, the best things you can do to increase engine longevity are the following:

Surround yourself with knowledgeable people
Listen

Its the little things that can spell the difference between a blown motor or turbo and a stable system. Turbo timers, boost controllers, etc. all are totally optional, but they all contribute to the longevity of a system, and any tuner worth their weight in salt will be able to tell you which you need. If you can't afford any downtime or if you're just trying to "do it right," most will tell you all of the above.

[Nexus1155]

^^^^ LOL PING PING KABOOM!!!

[cali yaris]

Yes. In that order. :smile: 'cause you are definitely not laughing AFTER "ping ping kaboom".

[ChinoCharles]

Sounds like my immediate future if I don't get on the ball. -gulp-

It would be a fantastic excuse to swap a 2ZZ though. :laugh:

[yaris-me]

A small thing to keep in mind. FI will increase blow-by. This leads to break down in the oil sooner. Change oil early to prevent increased wear.

[taracor]

So if forced induction does increase engine wear, how do companies include OEM turbo/superchargers and still have an incredibly reliable engines? Or is the engine built differently?

Also, if that's the case, how would one go about upgrading the engine components on a Yaris to be able to comfortably withstand being boosted? (Or was that what was mentioned about Garm doing?)

[cali yaris]

Companies design motors to handle some boost. They design the tolerances of those motors to safely handle the power.

You'd want at least rods and possibly pistons to guarantee a long life. Plus very good management to make sure your air/fuel is where it is supposed to be. However, pulling the motor and building if for a turbo is a really big project just for that goal.

[Parmas]

Garm, every how much km do you suggest to replace the engine oil, keeping in consideration a rebuilt engine like yours?

[cali yaris]

After the initial break-in, I've been changing my tC oil every 3000 miles for normal driving, or after a few race days, or when it looks dirty, whichever comes first. I'm sure people do maintenance on differing schedules though. I know some more hardcore racers that do it after every race weekend.

[battleversiontc]

oem boosted engines are built more solid and come with lower compression then n/a cars do. and also alot of research and development went into designing the motor and plus to they have alot of years behind them doing this and i mean alot. but upgrade the rods and pistons and change oil earlier then you normally would and run necessary gauges to monitor and dont beat the crap out it everyday and it will be reliable if tuned ight of course
So if forced induction does increase engine wear, how do companies include OEM turbo/superchargers and still have an incredibly reliable engines? Or is the engine built differently?

Also, if that's the case, how would one go about upgrading the engine components on a Yaris to be able to comfortably withstand being boosted? (Or was that what was mentioned about Garm doing?)

[taracor]

So even a Blitz Supercharger which boosts to a relatively low PSI would decrease engine life? The reason I ask is I've been reading up about other cars and people safely giving them a relatively low boost without building the engine. Granted, the engines I've read about are a bit more performance oriented than the one in the Yaris (I've been looking at 350z's, S2000's, and Civics) but I figured that the stock engine in the Yaris had a level to which it could be safely boosted too, or is my thinking flawed?

[cali yaris]

^ no it isn't flawed, and the question has been attended to in this thread (and other threads). The engines you are reading about have decreased life too. First you say "safely giving them a relateively low boost" - correct, you can. Then you ask about engine longevity -- different subject.

Maybe this is a more clear way to put it:

1. FORCED INDUCTION POWER MODS WILL DECREASE THE LIFE OF YOUR ENGINE
2. THERE IS NO CHART OF WHAT "DECREASED LIFE" MEANS, PER PSI, OR IN MILES, TO AN INDIVIDUAL ENGINE

[changchewsoon]

i discovered that there are some visible signs of wear and tear to my crank and rod bearings after boosting the engine for about a year+.

[cali yaris]

^ Any pictures? I'm sure there would be a lot of interest in seeing that.

[CASTREX]

Safely means: "You don't blow your engine when you are doing a WOT pass" It doesn't mean that it will last the same as if you let your engine stock.


If a STOCK Yaris engine was supposed to get 350,000 miles before a rebuild... a boosted Yaris will get there sooner.

How sooner? There is no straight answer. Depends on the maintenance, and mostly in how you drive your car.

Upgraded internals such as forged pistons and rods are not intended to increase longevity... Those are made to increase the engines ability to handle higher boost levels. Usually when you built an engine is because is going take some abuse... Longevity is not a major concern for people who spend the big bucks building an engine.

Realiability, longevity = STOCK

can't beat that.

[Penguin Garage]

After the initial break-in, I've been changing my tC oil every 3000 miles for normal driving, or after a few race days, or when it looks dirty, whichever comes first. I'm sure people do maintenance on differing schedules though. I know some more hardcore racers that do it after every race weekend.

blackstone oil analysis is a racers best friend, they'll be able to tell you almost everything about your engine.

some people do enough abuse to their oil after 1 weekend, some can go 3-4 weekends + daily driving before they "need" to change.

it really depends on the setup and oil analysis is a very cheap and good idea, especially if they have a baseline of your car pre-boost. :)

oem boosted engines are built more solid and come with lower compression then n/a cars do. and also alot of research and development went into designing the motor and plus to they have alot of years behind them doing this and i mean alot. but upgrade the rods and pistons and change oil earlier then you normally would and run necessary gauges to monitor and dont beat the crap out it everyday and it will be reliable if tuned ight of course

lots of different variables when building a motor, assuming it'd put together right and it's tuned right you still will see less miles out of a built motor than you would a stock one.

good idea is to build it for 250 more horsepower then you plan to have. :)

[cali yaris]

good idea is to build it for 250 more horsepower then you plan to have. :)

So I should have built for 600 hp? ouch. :biggrin:

[changchewsoon]

^ Any pictures? I'm sure there would be a lot of interest in seeing that.

we discovered that when we took out the pistons for ceramic coating last round. i promise i will take pictures and post it up when we crack open the engine for rebuild. recently ordered toga bearings from IPP, will take some time for the shipment to reach Malaysia.

[changchewsoon]

some pics of the bearings that i took now that the engine is out for rebuilt.

[Yoda]

hmmmm

[cali yaris]

What to look for in these pictures? I'm no expert.

[Yaris Hilton]

There's some pitting there that shouldn't be.

[changchewsoon]

was boosting 9 psi and yeah i do push the car very hard most of the time, often lingering at the red line limit.

well nevertheless the bearings would have to be replaced. hopefully the Toga bearings I purchased from IPP will perform.

i wasn't able to locate a part number for our 1NZ from ACL and Clevite. if anyone here manages to do so appreciate if you could share.

alright, i'll try to snap pictures of the crank as well, was thinking to keep the stock crank pulley though.