Valve Adjustments

[bikeshox]

Has anyone ever inspected their valve clearance? If so, did you need to make adjustments? Im right around the 60,000 mile mark so I should probably do this soon.

[1stToyota]

Has anyone ever inspected their valve clearance? If so, did you need to make adjustments? Im right around the 60,000 mile mark so I should probably do this soon.

It calls for around 6 hrs flat-rate for the labor, if we're talking Yaris.
Are you getting valvetrain noise?
You don't adjust them, you put spacers in where they're out of spec, after you remove the cams. Ouch.

[cali yaris]

I thought our valves were self-adjusting -- no?

[craigq]

No, not self-adjusting. According to the FSM the lifters are to be replaced when valve clearances must be adjusted:

Lifters are available in 35 sizes in increments of
0.020mm (0.0008 in.), from 5.060 mm (0.1992 in.)
to 5.740 mm (0.2260 in.).

[Shroomster]

^^^ouch, per lifter pricing is expensive too right?

[jambo101]

Just sold an 01 Echo with 220,000kms, never knew i was supposed to check the valves:iono: I'd say unless your valves are making a lot of noise just leave em alone.

[Yaris Hilton]

That's my plan.

[1stToyota]

valve clerance check is part of the maintenance schedule. i just got mine checked about a week ago. Total price 282$CAD.

"Inspect" is part of the 60,000 maintenance, says to listen for excessive tappet noise and look for engine vibration. Clearance can be measured with a gauge, but cams have to be removed if any are found out of spec. Just multiply about 6 hrs X local labor rate, then start adding the price of lifter(s)... gets real expensive in a hurry.

[Lewis]

my service book on my 2009 calls for it @120K miles. At that point the car will probably be worth so little I'd be inclined to just drive until it dies.

[devinlamothe]

I don't know if I've had my valve clearance ever checked .... how can I tell if something is up? I'm already at 131,000km lol.

[jambo101]

my service book on my 2009 calls for it @120K miles. At that point the car will probably be worth so little I'd be inclined to just drive until it dies.
If you read PK's link on what that checkup entails you'll see that its an audio inspection meaning if your valves arent making any abnormal noise then they're ok.

[Reddog99]

If you read PK's link on what that checkup entails you'll see that its an audio inspection meaning if your valves arent making any abnormal noise then they're ok.A valve clearance inspection is not a "audio inspection"!!! It's a physical inspection using a feeler gage to measure clearances. What if your valve clearance is too small? They wouldn't be making any noise then, yet undersize clearances can burn out your valves!

Don't depend on noise to determine if the valves are OK. It can't be done.

[jambo101]

Heres the link to the maintainance schedule check out the 7th item in the 64k inspection http://xws.xtime.com/xmmmenu/?variant=TCI&username=null&is_advisor=0&locale=en_CA&rendering_option=2&print_menu_report=/XTIME1/REPORTS/PrintMenu/PCN&make=TOYOTA&model=YARIS&year=2007&trim=UNKNOWN&engine_type=4&engine_size=UNKNOWN&drive_type=FWD&transmission_type=Manual&mileage=60000&units=km&estimate=false
I agree not much of a valve inspection.

[1stToyota]

And Mitchell repair says to LISTEN for noise, then check for engine smoothness, before going to the actual trouble of pulling cyl head cover and checking clearance with a gauge.

[Reddog99]

Yeah, I read that link, but I still don't agree with it. Noise will only occur with increasing clearances, such as when the cam or spacers wear. But wear on the valve itself or the valve seat, will DECREASE clearances, resulting in less noise. By the time the engine starts running rough (due to lowered compression from the valve not closing), the damage has already been done, i.e. a burned valve.

I've seen burned valves, and they can literally look like someone took a cutting torch to them. This happens because if the valve isn't properly seated, it can't cool off, and will become as hot as the exhaust gasses which are above the melting point of metal.

The moral of the story is to check the clearances with a feeler, and don't wait for them to become noisy to do so.

Something odd I noticed about that site is that it calls for the valve clearance check at 64,000 km (roughly 40,000 miles). My 2008 Yaris "Scheduled Maintenance Guide" doesn't call for a valve clearance check until 60,000 miles....

[90tsi]

whose the one with like 350,000 miles on his car? ask if he's had that check done... I don't think that's been an issue with higher mileage cars. I've got a new one again with 20k on it so I've just changed oil haven't even considered that stuff at all.

[Bob Dog]

Run it til it drops and DIY plug and play a salvage engine for less than the cost of a skilled factory valve adjustment?

[jambo101]

With todays overhead cam engines what exactly do you adjust?,if the cam is opening the valve wouldnt the cam ultimately wear down causing the valve to not open as much as when it was new, and wouldnt a whole new cam shaft be needed to remedy the situation.:iono:,

[bikeshox]

It the simplest sense, as the valvetrain wears you increase the shim thickness to reduce the size of the clearance between the valve and the lifter. It looks like on the Yaris the lifter is replaced when the clearance is out of specification.

[bikeshox]

Heard a good story this weekend from a friend of mine that formerly worked in a shop. One of his co-workers was adjusting the valves on a Geo Storm. Unfortunately the tech adjusting the Storm did not have the correct shim so he found the next size thicker and sanded it down by hand to achieve the correct clearance.

So the short answer to my question is that no one has checked and adjusted the valve clearance.

[Reddog99]

Run it til it drops and DIY plug and play a salvage engine for less than the cost of a skilled factory valve adjustment? You know where to find a good salvage engine for less than 282$CAD ??? :thumbup:

Unfortunately the tech adjusting the Storm did not have the correct shim so he found the next size thicker and sanded it down by hand to achieve the correct clearance.
Good grief!! Sanded it down? What an idiot. Those parts are case hardened, which means that he could have sanded down into the soft metal beneath the hardened case. That one would wear extremely fast. This reminds me why I like to do my own work. At least I KNOW what I'm ignorant about.

[bikeshox]

Good grief!! Sanded it down? What an idiot. Those parts are case hardened... That one would wear extremely fast. This reminds me why I like to do my own work. At least I KNOW what I'm ignorant about.

We had a good laugh at that one. That and that it was a Geo Storm.

[1stToyota]

Run it til it drops and DIY plug and play a salvage engine for less than the cost of a skilled factory valve adjustment?

Yeah, run it till it drops, use the right oil, and change it on a regular basis, and I doubt too many here will ever have to worry about valve adjustments...unless they just want to spend big money to have a tech LISTEN/"check" the valves. I wonder how many of these "checks" actually turn into lifter replacements :wink:??.....

[Lewis]

Interesting aside- this set up is called bucket tappets and they were designed by FIAT in the 1960's. My first 1970s era VW rabbit had them. It required 2 specialized tools to adjust the tappets- a depressor to get at the discs and a removal and insert tool to get the discs out and reinsert new ones with the proper clearances. The big problem is the expensive set of discs with a variety of thicknesses you need to be able to do the work in a garage. I used to take two days to do it on my VW- one day to measure the clearances and remove the discs with bad clearances- and the next day to trudge down to the dealer to buy the individual discs (the VW dealers parts department always had every size disc in those days)i n the sizes needed to get the clearances corrected. Then they had to be reinserted. There never was any need to remove the overhead camshaft on the FIATS and VWs to do this service and I doubt there is now for our Toyotas - unless you lack the correct tools.

Come to think of it there was a third and fourth tool you needed to do it right- a micrometer- to measure the discs thickness of the removed disc because the embossed # would almost always be rubbed off by the camlobes and of cause a set of feeler gauges to test the clearances.

My guess is the this set up really doesn't require maintenance nowadays- it is a much more stable setup than the screw down adjusters from the old days (reflected in the fact that the proceedure went from every 3K miles to every 20K miles even then) and with modern metallurgy the parts just don't wear out like they used to. Also what wear does happen is often offset by carbon deposits on the valves which tend to close off the distances as the wear increases the distances thus pretty much ending up a wash.

I frankly doubt that many dealers even invest in the giant trays of discs needed to actually do this job- but knowing modern dealers they'd be most pleased to charge you for the service they literally can't even perform.

Only old guys like me (62) would know all this junk!

:-)

[90tsi]

Run it til it drops and DIY plug and play a salvage engine for less than the cost of a skilled factory valve adjustment?

maybe that something i should have done when i had to put a salvage motor in my 07. its not hard. But the valve adjustment would be much easier.

[Reddog99]

Interesting aside- ......... I frankly doubt that many dealers even invest in the giant trays of discs needed to actually do this job- but knowing modern dealers they'd be most pleased to charge you for the service they literally can't even perform.
Lewis, the valve setup in the Yaris is a bit different than you think. This engine doesn't use the replaceable shims. It uses replaceable lifters. If you need to adjust the clearance, the entire lifter needs to be changed, which is why the cams have to be removed to perform the operation. The advantage is that there are no shims to spit out if the valves float, but it's a real PITA to adjust. Fortunately, the wear rate is quite low.

[Lewis]

well Reddogg- just another reason not to ever do the adjustment!

you're right- my technical knowledge is aging as fast as it's container.

:-)

[Liltoaster]

Interesting that a post like this came up, myself I was just talking to the Stealership about my noise lifters and they said that I need to have the adjustments done! My car is only at 43,000 km's and it has been maintained from the dealership since new.

Im going to get a quote on the repair this week hopefully once I get my "goodies" removed from my engine bay. I think its b.s since its not even covered under the engine warranty.

[Reddog99]

That's because valve adjustments (for mechanical lifters) are a normal maintenance item and not covered by warranty on any car that I'm aware of. It's like tire rotation or wiper replacement - not covered by the warranty.

You might get a second opinion by a different dealer. The noise you hear may be something else.