Invasive creature or standard feature? Small cars and VSC, ABS, and traction control

[Thirty-Nine]

There has been some interesting discussion lately about the 2010 Yaris coming with features like ABS, traction control and vehicle stability control standard. I had posted the 2010 Yaris info on my Web site, and there was some interesting discussion about these driving aides, so I wrote about it.

http://www.subcompactculture.com/2009/08/invasive-creature-or-standard-feature.html

[Jeemee]

Read, and commented. :thumbsup:

[supmet]

^^ I agree with automation making people worse drivers, BUT-

as you kind of eluded to, in rain, VSC and ABS are life savers, I don't care if you are mario andretti, there are still situations that having VSC or ABS can save your life. And I don't believe ABS is slower stopping in the snow/ice.

Being a good driver can ONLY come from the driver, and blaming car companies for making people worse drivers is ludicrous. Insurance companies make people bad drivers by deleting the natural act of negative reinforcement. You can almost kill someone, and pay a 500 dollar deductible and forget about it.

Really, my biggest problem is I want a cheap ass economy car, and its not the government's job to REQUIRE my cheap ass economy car to be more expensive with fancy gadgetry.

[Jeemee]

I didn't know ABS, VCS, and TCS make someone think they are playing Xbox. That's new to me for sure. Makes sense though, because I play Xbox daily and sometimes I get confused and think I'm driving. Weird. Or just plain stupid. :iono:

[gokartride]

I suppose it is easier/cheaper to just install these features on every car as a lowest common denominator. A good/aware driver may never see them kick in...but there's always those idiots out there. If they can make the entire car a bit safer for one and all...a default mode for the general masses...then I guess that's ample reason to do it.

[Jeemee]

My friend's supercharged 09 Tundra has ABS, TCS, and VSC and it makes it streetable in inclement weather. It's, of course, not needed but neither are any other standard features. People are making it seem like with it added people don't pay attention because of it. That's just ignorant. I'm sure the majority of people don't even know it's there. If you want a cheap ass economy car buy an 07 Yaris. If you want a safer cheap ass economy car buy a 10 Yaris. Alright, I'm done with this BS now. It was a interesting write up though, Thirty-Nine.:thumbsup:

[silver_echo]

that is part of a new law coming down the pipe... within a few years, you will not be able to buy any new car without abs, trac, and some form of stability. the big issue that i have with this new law, is that you will not be able to turn any of it off... i am getting tired of seeing people driving with all these features and thinking that they are gods gift to driving, but when they try to drive without them, oops, time for a new car... it is getting to the point where we are no longer going to have the appropriate connection to the road where drivers who know what they are doing use those sensations... i can only see this going downhill, and the govt will never back off of these "safety" features, even when people start killing each other because we no longer know the true limits of our cars...

[TheRealEnth]

ABS is for B**ches

[gokartride]

that is part of a new law coming down the pipe... within a few years, you will not be able to buy any new car without abs, trac, and some form of stability. the big issue that i have with this new law, is that you will not be able to turn any of it off...Extremely valid points you make and yet, given the documented safety benefit, how could they not make it standard? Not there isn't a down side...but in the end it'd be hard for the gov to ignore possible safety improvement at moderate cost.

[silver_echo]

Extremely valid points you make and yet, given the documented safety benefit, how could they not make it standard? Not there isn't a down side...but in the end it'd be hard for the gov to ignore possible safety improvement at moderate cost.

you ever used a car with abs in snow? when you have a car in snow/ice that has abs, you quickly learn the term anything but stop... but abs is not my peeve with this... it is the trac and stability spidered into it... i can readily understand the need for abs, as it lets you steer... but trac and stability have their places, and there are times when you need to be able to turn them off(i.e. a dyno for tuning, some emissions testing locations)...

[silver_echo]

driving in slush...try getting out of a slush filled parking lot when the TC is always on and you are moving about 0.5km/h, at one point it will just stay on and no wheel will move, happened to me in our brand spanking new Mercedes Sprinter with Active Drive, had to take out the fuse for the rest of the day in order to get any work done

see, here is a time when it needed to be turned off, and left off... you just made my point pavel... thank you

[silver_echo]

in a way i can understand that people need things like this to learn/if they are not the best driver... but if they actually know what they are doing, most of these "safety" features just become a problem...

[gokartride]

you ever used a car with abs in snow? Nope...snow is no issue around here. I could turn traction control off on my last car but never did....it never kicked in either. It was kinda irrelevant in my own case.

[Zaphod]

driving in slush...try getting out of a slush filled parking lot when the TC is always on and you are moving about 0.5km/h, at one point it will just stay on and no wheel will move, happened to me in our brand spanking new Mercedes Sprinter with Active Drive, had to take out the fuse for the rest of the day in order to get any work done
I don't mind the safety features like so long as they let you turn them off, like air bags on the passenger side of a single cab truck.

I do agree though, that a lot of new drivers never learn to do much more than mash their pedals.

[Shroomster]

hmm, silver echo, I haven't read anywhere that it's not going to be able to be turned off, yet. mind sharing the article?

so far I've found all our '09-'10 models, place the car either in low gear or double press the traction buttons or hold it down, and it will either shut it off OR place it in sport/comp mode.....(granted, they're all automatics, rental cars another excuse for dumb people)


now Hyundai/kia is the only one I haven't experimented with @ work yet....

[Forrest]

Drove cars years ago with no bells an whistles....always got where I was going. No abs/traction control etc. If a person is a defensive driver and does not OVER DRIVE the weather conditions, they will get where they are going.

[Mouse]

This is an example of a car that has driving aids thats being pushed to its limits....Granted it has more power than a lot of cars ever will have. But it's just an example of how the aids interfere...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dfff-s2OMc

[gokartride]

I can handle the traction controls, I suppose, in that they are (supposedly) assisting with road conditions and traction. What creeps me out is the MB commercial I saw the other day: the car senses when you are falling asleep and wakes you up? What the heck.....sleeping at the wheel?!?!?! Then, if you're not watching the road the car will brake for you......geez, how stupid are drivers supposed to be these days????

[silver_echo]

hmm, silver echo, I haven't read anywhere that it's not going to be able to be turned off, yet. mind sharing the article?

so far I've found all our '09-'10 models, place the car either in low gear or double press the traction buttons or hold it down, and it will either shut it off OR place it in sport/comp mode.....(granted, they're all automatics, rental cars another excuse for dumb people)


now Hyundai/kia is the only one I haven't experimented with @ work yet....

that is what my toyota t-ten instructor has been saying, as well as the other instructors on the campus for auto tech...

[Shroomster]

still looking into it at work, had a hyundai that wouldn't even acknowledge it had tcs (light on dash but not lit up) but hooked up the hyundai scanner and nothing. weird.....