Chevy Volt to get 230 MPG

[ChinoCharles]

http://bit.ly/kt6u1

[DevilGirl]

This does sound nice, getting that kind of mpg's. But with that kind of price tag, is it really worth it? How can the average worker afford a car like this? They are the people who would be most benefitted by this car, with way lower fuel costs. Also, how long does it take to recharge? What about those who have a long daily commute? What's the reliability factor? Or longevity?

Just some of my questions about it....

[Morgan]

...just to clarify something in the article... no car has a carbon footprint of zero - if they did they'd be made of air and sunlight not plastics or rubber which require petroleum products

and its marketed as a 2011 vehicle... so good luck with that release date ;)

[ChinoCharles]

Most of these questions have yet to be seen.

Is it worth it? Depends on longevity. In theory, with the removal of a substantial part of the internal combustion process it should last a lot longer, although the batteries have a lifespan and would need to be replaced. This one may not make a ton of financial sense for most, but maybe a generation or two down the line the story will be different.

How can average joe afford it? I would expect a SUBSTANTIAL tax credit for a car like this. $5,000-$10,000 wouldn't surprise me a bit. That puts it more within reach. Like all technology, it'll come down in price with time. Remember when flat screens were 10 grand? However, you're right... this won't be a car for the average joe, but its no average car... yet.

If you have a long daily commute, its a hybrid. It'll get your usual 50 MPG after that 40 mile charge is up, but still... say you commute 120 miles a day. 40 of those are freebies, so 80 miles at 50 MPG... you'll use 1.6 gallons to go 120 miles. That is still 75 MPG. Yeehaw. But yes, note that 230 MPG number changes depending on commute. Its based off a 25-30ish mile commute, which is reasonable for most. Mine is 10 miles round trip.

What they need to do is put uber-efficient solar panels on the roof. Let the car charge itself.

[ChinoCharles]

...just to clarify something in the article... no car has a carbon footprint of zero - if they did they'd be made of air and sunlight not plastics or rubber which require petroleum products

"day-to-day" C'mon, don't be that nitpicky.

[TLyttle]

Yeah, and one better be saving ALL their gas money up for a replacement battery when (not if) it fails: twenty-five grand, last I heard...

[tuckevalastin]

What they need to do is put uber-efficient solar panels on the roof. Let the car charge itself.

Solar panels are no where near that efficient.

GM estimates running the 40miles on electricity will end up costing something like $1.10 in electricity costs. That's substantially less than the cost of gas so I can't imagine GM is too worried about making the car run off of non grid power.

[tuckevalastin]

Yeah, and one better be saving ALL their gas money up for a replacement battery when (not if) it fails: twenty-five grand, last I heard...


With a battery life of >10 years, 150,000 miles I expect that most people would trade the car in for a newer model as opposed to buying a replacement battery.

[Morgan]

"day-to-day" C'mon, don't be that nitpicky.

you could have left it as is :wink:

[Tamago]

230mpg

but

is it worth it? it's gonna be a pig in the corners

[coffiend]

With a battery life of >10 years, 150,000 miles I expect that most people would trade the car in for a newer model as opposed to buying a replacement battery.

So assuming the battery lif is about 10 years... And IF a new battery is as expensive as said before, wouldn't this absolutely DESTROY a resale / trade in value? Nobody is going to want to buy a used car and immediately drop the cost of entirely new vehicle into it?

If sonething doesn't change are we gonna see these things piling up in junk yards 10 yrs from now?

[ChinoCharles]

The 10 year thing has yet to be seen. Chevy is trying to do testing to see how long they'll last as we speak.

[tuckevalastin]

So assuming the battery lif is about 10 years... And IF a new battery is as expensive as said before, wouldn't this absolutely DESTROY a resale / trade in value? Nobody is going to want to buy a used car and immediately drop the cost of entirely new vehicle into it?

If sonething doesn't change are we gonna see these things piling up in junk yards 10 yrs from now?


I'd imagine the resale value of the Volt will be directly related to the cost of batteries at that time. However, I find it hard to believe that a battery would cost nearly as much in 10 years. And from what I have seen the real cost of the battery is more like $5-10K not $25K. If it were $25K I find it hard to believe that GM could build a full midsize sedan around it with a gas engine and still make a profit for only $15K more.

[coffiend]

That's what I was thinking, 25 grand sounds a bit ridiculous.

As much as I hate to admit, it seems like a pretty decent investment IF you plan on driving it till the wheels fall off. ( unless they fall off at 80k..... It IS a chevy afterall)

the thing is... The type of person that will drop 40 grand on a car usually isn't the same person that will drive it till it's totally dead.

I wouldn't consider buying one even if I had the money, when I think of the volt all I can think of is when Microsoft rushed to release the xbox 360 and they ended up starting on fire.... Haha

let's hope volts don't do the same!

[Bob Dog]

I find the whole thing very questionable :sounds as though GM is giving themselves a publicty bump to me..

[BailOut]

Even though I can charge the car in both directions of my commute (but, stupidly, just like the EV1, it will use a proprietary wall charger that you must purchase extras of separately, and they are not cheap at all so this is already a no-go for me) this car still wouldn't be worth it.

Let's say that the government gives me a $10k credit on it, leaving the purchase price around $30k, and let's pretend that GM gives me a second wall charger for free (yeah, right) so that I can charge it at work. Let's go so far as to pretend that GM gives me a 10 year warranty on the batteries, but that the car has little to no resale value after that point. We'll assume that it will cost me $2/day to charge the Volt. We will also assume comparable maintenance and repair costs, which is quite silly when comparing a gasoline Toyota to a hybrid GM vehicle, but it makes our calculations cleaner.

We'll compare it to my $12.3k Yaris that gives me an average of 48 MPG, using my 55 mile round trip commute. On this commute my Yaris uses about 1.14 gallons of fuel at a cost of around $3. This means that it costs me $1 more per day in fuel to drive the Yaris. $30k for the Volt - $12.3k for the Yaris equals a difference of $17.7k.

This means it would take 17,700 days, or 48 years, of driving the Volt at least 55 miles per day to break even with the cost of operating the Yaris. :laugh: Even if I pass on the cost of charging at work to my employer it would still take more than 20 years to break even.

[DandiDani]

I seen that on abc news today. They said it will be $40,000. I dont have that kind of money:eek:

[Bob Dog]

48.49 years, as if it makes any difference

[BailOut]

48.49 years, as if it makes any difference
Thanks for catching that! I fixed my post.

[SailDesign]

An interesting take on it, with more info.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/pender/detail?entry_id=45351

[TLyttle]

25k was the number I heard for a battery. Today. Sure, time will change that, but still, 5-10k is a hell of a lump all at once. One buys gas $20 at a time; would anyone dump $20 into an account every time they charged their car? Sure....

I've been fighting with electric vehicles for 30+ years now. Batteries were always the problem, and remain so. If I could buy a hi-tec battery for the same price as lead-acid, I would have an EV now, right now, but that ain't the case. We have Chevron et al to blame for this with their grip on patents so that they can sell oil, no other reason...

[ezhacker1]

there's a diminishing return with increasing MPG just like everything else.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/savemoney.shtml Plug in numbers and see for yourself, I can never see why anyone would buy a hybrid to "save" money, unless they have money and just want to save the planet.

[TLyttle]

Just save the planet? Now there's a noble quest for the ME generation...

[Altitude]

Despite all the naysayers - it's a good start isn't it?

Bailout - why purchase an extra wall charger? Aren't they portable enough to bring with?

[ChinoCharles]

Despite all the naysayers - it's a good start isn't it?

Agreed

[SailDesign]

Despite all the naysayers - it's a good start isn't it?


Damned good start. But I wish the hype-machers would learn to underpromise and over-deliver. People are SO fecking fed up with being promised sh!t that doesn't exist. If they said 100mpg, it would be more believable, and people would less inclined to pooh-pooh it while looking elsewhere. As for the "0 carbon footprint", you have to be pretty dumb to believe that generating electricity isn't going to use some carbonn. Hell, even Nuke plant employees have to drive to work - there's some carbon for you already!
[/rant]

[BailOut]

Bailout - why purchase an extra wall charger? Aren't they portable enough to bring with?

No one knows for sure yet, but likely not. The EV1's charging station required hardwiring into your home's electrical system on a 240V line.

[tuckevalastin]

No one knows for sure yet, but likely not. The EV1's charging station required hardwiring into your home's electrical system on a 240V line.


The 120V charger is portable and can just be plugged in... the 240V must be hardwired.

[Mouse]

The EPA is not backing GM's claim.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/11/epa-backs-away-from-gm-claim-of-230-mpg-for-volt/

[tuckevalastin]

The EPA is not backing GM's claim.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/11/epa-backs-away-from-gm-claim-of-230-mpg-for-volt/



GM used the EPA's method to come up with the number though. The EPA has yet to do the testing so they can't back the claim yet. If anything the EPA is realizing that their own testing method might be a very strange way to test electric cars.

[47_MasoN_47]

The battery thing is what always gets me. Even if the battery was "only" 5k...I'd be more tempted to put that as a down payment on Volt 2.0 than throwing money at an old vehicle. Seems like a "disposable car" to me.

I also wonder how much of a bearing cold weather will have on the battery. Also I wonder how air conditioning, radio, heater, headlights, and other electronics will effect the battery. Seems like if you had the radio and air conditioner on it would cut that 40 miles the battery is supposed to last down a good bit. I could be wrong, but that's just my thinking.

[tuckevalastin]

The battery thing is what always gets me. Even if the battery was "only" 5k...I'd be more tempted to put that as a down payment on Volt 2.0 than throwing money at an old vehicle. Seems like a "disposable car" to me.

I also wonder how much of a bearing cold weather will have on the battery. Also I wonder how air conditioning, radio, heater, headlights, and other electronics will effect the battery. Seems like if you had the radio and air conditioner on it would cut that 40 miles the battery is supposed to last down a good bit. I could be wrong, but that's just my thinking.


The temperature won't be a problem because the gas motor will run long enough to get the battery at the proper running temperature before the battery begins being used when it's outside of optimal running temperatures.

I agree that if a battery lasted me even close to 10 years or 150,000 miles I would probably be more likely to trade it in on a new model than get a new battery. But then again I'd be more likely to trade any car in at 10 years 150,000 miles.

[Mouse]

One of the things that bothers me about the whole idea of charging batteries on a car is the same reason why I try not to charge my cell phone and other electronics on a daily basis. From my experience the more frequent you charge a battery the less juice the battery can hold. Charging your cell phone everyday kills your battery and thats why you're phone barely lasts you a day. It's the same concept for all batteries. I just dont see electricity powered through batteries as a solution for future transportation.

[47_MasoN_47]

Not all types of batteries are susceptible to the "battery memory" problem. Nickel Cadmium batteries are much more likely to develop memory problems than Lithium Ion batteries. Most newer large electronics like laptops are using Lithium Ion, along with the nicer cell phones. Still though, you are correct that no battery runs at 100% forever. One of my 2005 laptops has a Lithium Ion battery and it is at 43% of maximum capacity when fully charged now :(

[cali yaris]

We have a 2005 Prius. We certainly did not buy it to save a ton of money, but it's a really nice car in its own right and it's our way of telling the auto industry which direction we think they should be heading. I would trade it in on a new one in a heartbeat, but have no reason to at this point. Have not had a single mechanical issue with the car.