Greddy xB kit vs Greddy Fit kit

[ellenbetty]

I was just looking at Greddy's web site. I noticed a difference between Scion xB kit and the Honda Fit kit. The xB bolt on kit comes with a TF-035-14GK with a cast maniford w/e-manage at $2,950.00. The Honda Fit kit comes with a TD035HL 14GK-6cm with a type 31 1/c, cast mani., 99% plug-in Ultimate at $3,980.00.

The Toyota Yaris has a 1.5 VVT-i motor. I read that the 1.5 liter VVT-i motor is built under license from Honda. The Honda Fit has a 1.5 liter VTEC motor. So how likely is the Honda Fit kit to work in the Toyota Yaris?

Given what I have read about the e-manage being a failure in the Toyota Yaris, what is the chance that the 99% plug-in Ultimate made for a Honda Fit would work in a Toyota Yaris? Some web sites claim that the Greddy e-manage is pre-programmed for the xB. How likely is that to be true? The Greddy web site does not say that about the e-manage for the xB.

[eTiMaGo]

hmmmm doubtful... I've sen the exhaust side of a fit engine some time ago and if i remember, the bolt locations are not quite the same. I doubt the port size and spacing would match too...

And where's you read about toyota licensing a honda engine design? The 1NZ that we have has been in service for many many years?

The success or failure of a certain engine management has probably more to do with the capabilities of the installer and the quirks of the engine in question than the kit itself.

I believe the e-manage itself is not pre-programmed but you can download and install pre-created profiles into it.

But hey, don't quote me on any of this, I've never tried it for myself, just done a good bit of research.

The best answer is, no matter which route you choose, be prepared to have to spend a lot of time and/or money to get things working properly.

[thebarber]

you're pretty much guaranteed it won't work

the intake manifold from car to car is going to be different....different bolt holes, different flange sizes, different intake shapes.....and remember, the fit is drive-by-wire and the xb has a throttle cable

as for emanage....the wiring pinouts will be different between the fit and the xb...thats for sure. but emanage is emanage. i'd bet that greddy sends them w/ a safe map to run the s/c on either car though, so if you got an emanage from a fit you'd have to rewire it for the xb AND download a new map onto the emanage.

[cdydjded]

"ellenbetty"a Yaris has a 1.5 VVT-i motor. I read that the 1.5 liter VVT-i motor is built under license from Honda.
Where did you read that?
The Honda Fit has a 1.5 liter VTEC motor. So how likely is the Honda Fit kit to work in the Toyota Yaris?
The only thing that they have in common is that they are 1.5 liters
Given what I have read about the e-manage being a failure in the Toyota Yaris
Not true: http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17674&highlight=manage+ultimate

[ellenbetty]

"ellenbetty"a Yaris has a 1.5 VVT-i motor. I read that the 1.5 liter VVT-i motor is built under license from Honda.
Where did you read that?
The Honda Fit has a 1.5 liter VTEC motor. So how likely is the Honda Fit kit to work in the Toyota Yaris?
The only thing that they have in common is that they are 1.5 liters
Given what I have read about the e-manage being a failure in the Toyota Yaris
Not true: http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17674&highlight=manage+ultimate

Where did I read that Toyota builds the VVT-I under license from Honda? Automotive history web site. Honda auto history web page. Japanese patient law is different than US patient law. Japanese law requires the company that patients a item to license out the patient to other Japanese companies. Japanese government does not want one company to have a competive edge over other Japanese companies because of a important patient.

Isn't eManage and eManage Ultimate two different products?

[Yaris0609]

AFAIK, yamaha designs the heads on toyotas. they may or may not for honda, and even if they did, they would be built to hondas specs and the flanges they use will more than likely be different. there are many toyota parts that are interchangeable between certain motors, but i've never seen interchangeability between different engine manufacturers.

[ellenbetty]

During WWII Toyota made almost exact copies of the truck the US Army was using at the time. Captured Toyota made Japanese Army trucks could be repaired using American made parts. Most parts were interchangable.

Of course what some people would try during a war because of shortage of vehicles is different than what most people would try during peace time. It is a interesting question. How much did Toyota copy directly from Honda's VVT-i motor design? Or did Toyota just use a available motor and improve that motor to make it compatible with the Honda computer control system that is the center piece of the VVT-i system?

[thebarber]

it won't work

[cali yaris]

Automotive history is both interesting and educational - But the point of the thread is whether it will work, right?

Not one measurement, angle, distance or anything real has been posted yet (except for the displacement) that would allow us to compare the two motors.

I can guarantee no one has tried it yet, so... I say, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT! -- then you can tell everyone with 100% certainty if it worked or not.

[ellenbetty]

.

I can guarantee no one has tried it yet, so... I say, BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT! -- then you can tell everyone with 100% certainty if it worked or not.

I knew you were going to say that. Once I get my paint job and vinyl detailing paid for, I will deside which turbo kit to buy and which local shop to hire to install it. I figure the turbo kit will be my next birthday present to myself.

[mikenacarato]

your going to waste a lot of money......and confuse the hell out of the hired shop.

[cali yaris]

I knew you were going to say that.

And you knew that because...?

[hatchbackkid82]

troll?:iono:

[mrbond]

Well, as the old addage goes, anything can be done with enough money.
Seriously, though, there are WAY many more options as far as forced induction go. Considering how much money you'd be throwing at the hired shop to make the Fit kit fit into the Yaris, you could buy a Blitz supercharger, an xB turbo kit (would need modification), or piece together your own kit. There's a lot of threads already on the forums listing what you would need to make your own kit. Be logical, and stay away from the Fit turbo kit. You would be giving yourself a HUGE headache and punishing your wallet/purse when you don't need to.
If you do still want to blow a bunch of money on making the Fit kit work, then all power to you.

[ellenbetty]

you could buy a Blitz supercharger, an xB turbo kit (would need modification), or piece together your own kit.

I never said I figure the Fit Kit a best buy. The question was meant as a research question. I do not know enough about turbos to feel at ease trying to assemble my own turbo kit. From what I have read about super chargers, they always reduce fuel economy. I prefer the idea of using wasted energy to power boosting the motor output when needed. I question that a super charger would be compatable with hypermiling, which I do most of the time I am driving. Since my goal is low end boost, a one size fits all 1.5 liter motors super charger does not feel right. Nor do I wish to buy a turbocharger that has a top end power output powerful enough to put out more than 5 to 8 psi boost. Plus I would like to avoid using after market octane booster. Trying to figure out which turbo would work best to meet my goal is confusing to me. At this point I am leading toward the Greddy xB kit purchased direct from Greddy. I question some of the web sites that claim to be able to sell the Greddy xB turbo kit $900 less than Greddy sells the xB turbo kit direct.

[cali yaris]

I question that a super charger would be compatable with hypermiling,

It is if it can be turned off, as the Blitz kit does. You can't turn off a turbo, and it's difficult to drive without spooling it up.

[cali yaris]

I question some of the web sites that claim to be able to sell the Greddy xB turbo kit $900 less than Greddy sells the xB turbo kit direct.

Of course they can, just like I can for almost all of my product lines, including Blitz, Tanabe, NST, Silk Road, Progress, etc etc.....

[cali yaris]

Since my goal is low end boost,

That is what a supercharger does -- not a turbocharger.

[mrbond]

Well, since you would be handing your Yaris over to a shop to install it anyway, you could converse with them what you would need to build a low boost turbo kit. Also talk to Garm (caliyaris) and Tamago about what you would need to build your own turbo kit. They've posted that information a couple of times, and they would help you decide what you would need. Seriously, if you were to piece together your own setup, you WOULD be saving quite a bit of money. Later today after work I'm going to be uploading a couple of pages from Super Street magazine that goes really in depth about how a turbo setup works, and various types of turbines and what setup they work best with, so look for that.
Really, there's lots and lots of resources aimed at helping people in your position decide what to do. These resources are also well-geared towards helping people NOT waste money on things they won't necessarily need. Think of all the things you could do with that extra money: lowering springs & shocks or coilovers, brake upgrades, other suspension upgrades, etc. There's a lot to be had in all of these departments (especially turbo setups) for very little money. Just something to think about.

[mikenacarato]

if your goal is low end power a supercharger is the way to go.

[ellenbetty]

if your goal is low end power a supercharger is the way to go.

According to Blitz's web site it's supercharger kit is not street legal. And the Greddy turbo kit for the Scion xB Turbo kit is also not street legal. So my search must look beyond these two choices.

[cali yaris]

NO aftermarket BOOSTED system will be street legal. So we can just end the thread right here. Whew.

[mikenacarato]

in california maybe... here in TN its legal as long as you dont have a check engine light and can pass emissions (all they do is plug up and read obd codes...if no codes...pass) or like what i did on my last car i registered it at my aunts house in a county where they dont have emissions. :)

[cali yaris]

^ no visual inspection? Lucky you. :bow:

[mikenacarato]

well they check for 1 cat under the car. which can be gutted..they wont know the difference.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

LMAO. Man, us Cali folks have it bad. I know in Florida, they don't give a care about smog, well, at least from what my friend who lives there tells me.

[lilredrocket]

TX has the third highest smog and exhaust emissions testing. (I know because I'm a licensed state inspector) we do the OBD on 96 and newer cars and a dyno and sniffer on anything older than that. On top of that we also do visual inspections. If you buy a car brand new you don't have to get it checked for 2 years then it's every year after that.

[cali yaris]

Yaris (and the Scions) is 5 years here in CA.

[mrbond]

***piece together your own turbo kit***
I'm serious - talk to whatever shop you might use and talk to them about it.

[ellenbetty]

***piece together your own turbo kit***
I'm serious - talk to whatever shop you might use and talk to them about it.
I sent a email to a PA authorized Garrett turbo dealer asking advise about which Garrett turbo would be street legal in a Yaris. Waiting to hear back. I have seen some turbo kits with replacement catalytic converters to make the kit more environmentally friendly.

[cali yaris]

How would someone in PA know what is "street legal" in your state?

[lilredrocket]

Run 110 octane and no cats!! It smells amazing!!! Also NO BOOST (that is not stock or over stock preset) IS TECHNICALLY STREET LEGAL!!! Most any mod that adds performance is technically "for off-road use only" but no one is getting tickects from cops for having CAI's or mufflers

[Tamago]

ellenbetty, you're barking up the wrong tree..

buy the HKS kit for the XB. it's gonna fit better than ANY other kit out there because the piping does not include a bulky and overall useless front mount intercooler.

window tint isn't street legal in some states... imagine what a turbo setup means..

[ellenbetty]

How would someone in PA know what is "street legal" in your state?

Interesting question. A Internet search turned up Squires Turbo Systems which produces a Universal Turbo System. Full Throttle Kustomz in Garrettsville Ohio is a authorized dealer of Squires Turbo Systems. Garrettsville is 43 minutes drive from my home. So I sent a email to Full Throttle Kustomz asking the same question.

[Tamago]

Interesting question. A Internet search turned up Squires Turbo Systems which produces a Universal Turbo System. Full Throttle Kustomz in Garrettsville Ohio is a authorized dealer of Squires Turbo Systems. Garrettsville is 43 minutes drive from my home. So I sent a email to Full Throttle Kustomz asking the same question.

STS lol the worst design for a small displacement engine EVER

[ellenbetty]

Run 110 octane and no cats!! It smells amazing!!! Also NO BOOST (that is not stock or over stock preset) IS TECHNICALLY STREET LEGAL!!! Most any mod that adds performance is technically "for off-road use only" but no one is getting tickects from cops for having CAI's or mufflers

I think that people who remove the catalytic converter from their vehicle should get a year in super-max and be forced to watch their vehicle being crushed for scrap metal. :barf:

[Tamago]

I think that people who remove the catalytic converter from their vehicle should get a year in super-max and be forced to watch their vehicle being crushed for scrap metal. :barf:

better start with NASCAR then.

[RacerFreakXXX]

lol... if you feel removing a cat is bad you really have no place thinking about more power in a yaris. You should have just bought a corolla or a camry and called it a day.

[cali yaris]

^ LOL. caveatipse FTW

The OP thinks I belong in jail and lose my car.

/unsubscribed

[mikenacarato]

my volvo ran with no cats and didnt put out enough emissions to throw a red flag.

i think caveatipse is back.

[RacerFreakXXX]

this is really funny... I know for a fact big work trucks put out more emissions than my yaris would with a straight exhaust.

[ellenbetty]

lol... if you feel removing a cat is bad you really have no place thinking about more power in a yaris. You should have just bought a corolla or a camry and called it a day.

If you can afford to increase the size of the air fuel input to your motor, you can afford to install a larger catalytic converter to clean up the unburned fuel out of your exhaust. Removing the catalytic converter is a crime under federal and state law. Since some turbo kits come with catalytic converters, I am not the only person who thinks that environmental protection and power increase are compatible.

[RacerFreakXXX]

Tons of people break the law on a daily basis. Now laws are there as a guideline, and you can use your own judgment on whether the juice was worth the squeeze. A little bit of pollution is not the same as me shooting someone. Same as speeding on a highway is not as bad as through a neighborhood where kids are running around.

Also... turbo = going fast = against the law, so if you are spending 3-5k to pass someone on the highway but won't break 65 to do it there is no point ;)

[mikenacarato]

this is really funny... I know for a fact big work trucks put out more emissions than my yaris would with a straight exhaust.

not new emission semi trucks.... :)

[ChinoCharles]

If you can afford to increase the size of the air fuel input to your motor, you can afford to install a larger catalytic converter to clean up the unburned fuel out of your exhaust. Removing the catalytic converter is a crime under federal and state law. Since some turbo kits come with catalytic converters, I am not the only person who thinks that environmental protection and power increase are compatible.

Actually, in the state of Ohio spending more than $5,000 qualifies you for a collectors plate that allows you to be omitted from emissions testing. That is what I will eventually do to circumvent having to e-check MY car with MY exhaust, which by the way has no catalytic converters.

To say it is criminal not to run any cats shows that you lack basic understanding of many car enthusiasts because that statement alienates some of the most impressive builds around. Frankly, I more often see turbo cars WITHOUT cats than with. Reason is they rob the car of flow, ie: they cost you horsepower, which defeats the purpose of having a turbo to begin with. Another common thing is to punch a catalytic converter out so it appears you have one when you don't for all intents and purposes. My point is I would be careful about wild generalizations referring to people without catalytic converters. Many of the people that could potentially help you create a kit won't have them.

If you went into a performance shop saying things like that, they'd laugh you out.

Frankly, I don't think you should get a turbo kit. Having a system on a car like this requires a big pocketbook and a basic level of understanding for when things go wrong, and by some of your comments on this thread I have my doubts. No offense meant at all, I'm just being realistic. Get a faster car.

[Tamago]

Get a faster car.

he means get a hybrid, Al Gore

[lilredrocket]

I believe she is trying to go for the eco-boost that ford is doing if so then go buy a ford!!!:barf:

[RacerFreakXXX]

yay for new twin turbo taurus... rofl

[etheliters]

Also... turbo = going fast = against the law, so if you are spending 3-5k to pass someone on the highway but won't break 65 to do it there is no point ;)[/QUOTE]

+1

[cali yaris]

^ HUH? I'm in an altered reality.

1. Acceleration is half the fun, and it's legal.

2. going fast = not against the law, AT THE TRACK. The other half of the fun.

[YarisPR]

So many opinions, laws, cats, turbos, concerns, etc, etc.

EllenBetty Please!!!!! get a CUSTOM / Eco Friendly / Street Legal / Low boost / Anti smog / Cat deleter crushing / ToyoHonda / Law Follower Turbo kit!!!!!! And be Happy :thumbsup:

Custom is the Word

[ozmdd]

For the record, the biggest concern with catalytic converters is the not reducing carbon emissions, but the chemical reactivity of those emissions and their effect on air quality. They really do serve an important purpose, and its not terribly difficult to find a free-flowing cat, either aftermarket, or simply purchasing one intended for a larger engine (a late model V6 cat off a single exhaust vehicle can be found at junkyards pretty cheap.)

For those who want to know, here is a better explanation:

A two-way catalytic converter has two simultaneous tasks:

Oxidation of carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide: 2CO + O2 → 2CO2
Oxidation of unburnt hydrocarbons (unburnt and partially-burnt fuel) to carbon dioxide and water: CxH2x+2 + 2xO2 → xCO2 + 2xH2O (a combustion reaction)
This type of catalytic converter is widely used on diesel engines to reduce hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide emissions. They were also used on spark ignition (gasoline) engines in USA market automobiles through 1981, when the two-way converter's inability to control NOx led to its supersession by three-way converters.
Three-way
Since 1981, three-way catalytic converters have been used in vehicle emission control systems in North America and many other countries on roadgoing vehicles. A three-way catalytic converter has three simultaneous tasks:

Reduction of nitrogen oxides to nitrogen and oxygen: 2NOx → xO2 + N2
Oxidation of carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide: 2CO + O2 → 2CO2
Oxidation of unburnt hydrocarbons (HC) to carbon dioxide and water: CxH2x+2 + 2xO2 → xCO2 + 2xH2O
These three reactions occur most efficiently when the catalytic converter receives exhaust from an engine running slightly above the stoichiometric point. This is between 14.6 and 14.8 parts air to 1 part fuel, by weight, for gasoline. The ratio for LPG, natural gas and ethanol fuels is slightly different, requiring modified fuel system settings when using those fuels. Generally, engines fitted with 3-way catalytic converters are equipped with a computerised closed-loop feedback fuel injection system employing one or more oxygen sensors, though early in the deployment of 3-way converters, carburetors equipped for feedback mixture control were used. While a 3-way catalyst can be used in an open-loop system, NOx reduction efficiency is low. Within a narrow fuel/air ratio band surrounding stoichiometry, conversion of all three pollutants is nearly complete. However, outside of that band, conversion efficiency falls off very rapidly. When there is more oxygen than required, then the system is said to be running lean, and the system is in oxidizing condition. In that case, the converter's two oxidizing reactions (oxidation of CO and hydrocarbons) are favoured, at the expense of the reducing reaction. When there is excessive fuel, then the engine is running rich. The reduction of NOx is favoured, at the expense of CO and HC oxidation.
Oxygen storage
Three-way catalytic converters can store oxygen from the exhaust gas stream, usually when the air fuel ratio goes lean[4]. When insufficient oxygen is available from the exhaust stream the stored oxygen is released and consumed. This happens either when oxygen derived from NOx reduction is unavailable or certain maneuvers such as hard acceleration enrich the mixture beyond the ability of the converter to compensate.

Unwanted reactions
Unwanted reactions can occur in the three-way catalyst, such as the formation of odiferous hydrogen sulfide and ammonia. Formation of each can be limited by modifications to the washcoat and precious metals used. It is difficult to eliminate these byproducts entirely.

For example, when control of hydrogen sulfide emissions is desired, nickel or manganese is added to the washcoat. Both substances act to block the adsorption of sulfur by the washcoat. Hydrogen sulfide is formed when the washcoat has adsorbed sulfur during a low temperature part of the operating cycle, which is then released during the high temperature part of the cycle and the sulfur combines with HC.

Also, a test pipe is a simple and very effective solution for track/racing situations on a car that will be street-driven too. Simply fab-up a pipe to replace your mid-pipe and it only requires a few bolts to be removed and replaced to make the quick switch, kinda like cut-outs back in the day.

[Tamago]

So many opinions, laws, cats, turbos, concerns, etc, etc.

EllenBetty Please!!!!! get a CUSTOM / Eco Friendly / Street Legal / Low boost / Anti smog / Cat deleter crushing / ToyoHonda / Law Follower Turbo kit!!!!!! And be Happy :thumbsup:

Custom is the Word

or just buy a car that came turbo from the factory.