new (not really) oil from mobil 1, 0w-30 and 0w-20

[severous01]

hey all, i was just wondering if anyone's used the new...kinda oil from mobil. it's a 'eco-friendly' 0W oil and it's offered in a 20 and 30 weight. i looked at the back and it says it covers all maunfacture's warranties needing a 5w and a 10w class, but it's a 0.

and stock calls for a 30 weight and the new tsb calls for a 20 weight. what should i put in next? i put in 0w-30 cuz that's all walmart had in the $20 5q jugs, but they had quarts of 0w-20.

by the way, i've noticed substantial gains in fuel economy going from 37mpg to almost 41 with NO CHANGE IN DRIVING HABITS and no changes in city/highway miles per tank. it's all been about the same and i've gained almost 4mpg with oil...crazy i know

any way, need opinions on mobil1 ow-20 and wether or not i should use it.

[Henry G.]

TSB calling for 5w-20? Where, post link please.

[craigq]

TSB calling for 5w-20? Where, post link please.

I'm only posting this and nothing else. If your car is under warranty still and can't make up your mind about an oil just stick with whatever oil is recommended on your oil cap/in your owner's manual:


It's linked to on stickied TSB thread (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9753)
It's on Etimago's website (http://www.etimago.com/yaris/TSB/TS-EG018-06%20(ILSAC%20GF-4%20Engine%20Oil%20Recommendation).pdf)
There's a couple running rampant on Yaris World (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5338&d=1180322164)

[DerFlosser]

TSB calling for 5w-20? Where, post link please.

Look above you in this forum and it's in the TSB sticky

[jambo101]

I use the synthetic 0-20 in the winter and 5-20 in the summer,if i lived in Texas i might go for the 5-30 in the summer and 5-20 in the winter.

[Inspector14]

i am apprehensive about using a 0w-30 in the summer. i would like to use the castrol syntec 0-30 (good german stuff) just not sure if 0w-30 is too thin for the engine when cold?

[R2D2]

i am apprehensive about using a 0w-30 in the summer. i would like to use the castrol syntec 0-30 (good german stuff) just not sure if 0w-30 is too thin for the engine when cold?

0W-30 is certainly not too thin. In fact at room temp GC is slightly thicker than Mobil 1 5w-30 (66.8 vs. 64.8 cst, respectively.) The first number in the viscosity classification is a number that indicates the oils relative performance in the cold-most specifically cold cranking. It will be about the same thickness at operating temp as a 5W-30 or a 10w-30. (See second link below).

Here are some links to some info I originally passed on to DerFlosser when he asked a question about seasonal oil changes. The second link provides a link to a series of papers that is a goldmine of information about viscosity and hopefully can clear some of the confusion regarding oil viscosity classification.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=363846&postcount=3

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=363921&postcount=7

You should be OK with a 0W-30 as far as warranty because they do not warn against it and other than cold crank specs the viscosity is almost identical to a 5W-30.

My first choice would be a 5W-20 in the Yaris REGARDLESS of environment, ALASKA or TEXAS. I would recommend 0W-20 post warranty but would not use it under warranty because the TSB specifically warns against it (which makes no sense).

R2

[1stToyota]

Mine's a '08...just curious; my cap and owner's manual states 5w30, then comes the TSB, what's the '09 oil caps and manuals say now?

[DevilGirl]

Mine's a '08...just curious; my cap and owner's manual states 5w30, then comes the TSB, what's the '09 oil caps and manuals say now?

I believe mine (09) also says 5w30. I havn't looked under the hood lately though...

[R2D2]

I believe mine (09) also says 5w30. I havn't looked under the hood lately though...

Ditto-they still say 5w-30 on my 09 cap and in the manual. The only reference to 5w-20 I've seen is the TSB and it lists the NZ series. I keep a copy in my glove box.

[1stToyota]

Ditto-they still say 5w-30 on my 09 cap and in the manual. The only reference to 5w-20 I've seen is the TSB and it lists the NZ series. I keep a copy in my glove box.

Then Toyota isn't taking their own TSB too seriously, it seems.

[DerFlosser]

Then Toyota isn't taking their own TSB too seriously, it seems.

Well....I wouldn't go that far. It's likely that they signed up with a vendor to make the caps and they probably made up millions upon millions of these with 5w-30 screened on them.

[1stToyota]

Well....I wouldn't go that far. It's likely that they signed up with a vendor to make the caps and they probably made up millions upon millions of these with 5w-30 screened on them.

I would. NO changes to the cap or the manual for the '09, long after TSB was released. Mitchell1 also lists 5w30 for the '09 Yaris.

My friend's xD cap reads 0w20/5w20...if Toyota wanted a cap change they'd do it easily enough, and if '09 manual was already pre-printed, updated info could be printed and applied to printed manual...I've seen it before.

Or I know...raise the retail price of their cars 5 bucks each to cover the price of a new cap???!!!

[Yaris Hilton]

i am apprehensive about using a 0w-30 in the summer. i would like to use the castrol syntec 0-30 (good german stuff) just not sure if 0w-30 is too thin for the engine when cold?

The second number is the SAE viscosity rating at 210 degrees F. The first one with the W after it is the viscosity at 0 degrees F. NO current oil thins out at lower temperatures or thickens at high temperatures. They all thicken in the cold and thin as they get hot. The oils with wide spreads between the two numbers just change viscosity less with changing temperatures. The great advantage of the oils that don't thicken rapidly with falling temperatures (which is what the 0W tells you) is that they circulate rapidly in the engine on startup in very cold weather, which an oil of higher cold viscosity may not do.

[Henry G.]

Thanks for the link, good to know. Just can't figure out either why they put the TSB out in '06 and my '08 still calls for 5w-30? I may try the 5w-20 in the winter.

[Yaris Hilton]

They didn't change their primary recommendation of 5W-30. They just said it's OK to use 5W-20 (which thins out more as it gets hot.)

5W-20 isn't any better in cold weather than 5W-30. They have the same viscosity at 0°F. The 5W-20 thins out more at 210°F than the 5W-30 does.

[1stToyota]

They didn't change their primary recommendation of 5W-30. They just said it's OK to use 5W-20 (which thins out more as it gets hot.)

5W-20 isn't any better in cold weather than 5W-30. They have the same viscosity at 0°F. The 5W-20 thins out more at 210°F than the 5W-30 does.

I use Pennzoil Platinum and found it odd that their 5w-20 had an ACEA rating of A1/B1, but their 5w30 is ACEA rated at A5/B5, which BTW is equal to the Amsoil High Performance 5w30 that I used to use, except the PP gets API approval.

[TheSilkySmooth]

I'm only posting this and nothing else. If your car is under warranty still and can't make up your mind about an oil just stick with whatever oil is recommended on your oil cap/in your owner's manual:


It's linked to on stickied TSB thread (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9753)
It's on Etimago's website (http://www.etimago.com/yaris/TSB/TS-EG018-06%20(ILSAC%20GF-4%20Engine%20Oil%20Recommendation).pdf)
There's a couple running rampant on Yaris World (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5338&d=1180322164)

+1 on this comment. The TSB says the new Toyota recommended oil is ILSAC GF4 NOT that its OK to use 5w-20 in an engine spec'd for 5w-30. See the BOLD NOTICE at the top of the TSB. It says to use what is on the cap and in your manual. What the TSB means is if you have a 5w20 oil cap and manual spec you can use ILSAC GF4 oil instead of GF3 without reservation (given GF4 is "eco friendly" with a lessened % of phosphorous and zinc anti wear agents, commonly called ZDDP or by penzoil in the past, Z7. Tried 5w-20, went around the block, and the engine was so noisy I thought it would explode before I got it back home.

[Yaris Hilton]

Thanks for that correction, SilkySmooth. I didn't read the TSB. It's been referenced on here several times as OK'ing 5W-20, and I repeated what I'd read.

[R2D2]

The TSB SPECIFICALLY LISTS engines that CAN use 5W-20 as genuine Toyota oil moved in this direction. The NZ series is listed. It dosn't say you have to use it.

Mine purrs on 5W-20-no noise issues at all-not that sound has much to do with it.

R2

[1stToyota]

Well, when Toyota gets serious enough to move the 5w30 off of the oil cap & manual and replace it with the words 5w20 I'll get serious about the TSB. And if oil doesn't qualify as a sound issue with a motor I don't know what does.

[R2D2]

Well they haven't taken the GF-3 off the cap either-and GF-3 has been obsolete for many years

My point about the sound is that thicker oils tend to dampen noise better than lighter oils but it is not necessarily an indicator of increased wear. Oils of the same viscosity can also exhibit differences in sound dampening depending on how they are formulated.

At any rate I think the intention of the TSB is quite clear and the NZ series is plainly listed in the 5W-20 column. Warranty wise GF-4 in either 5W-20 or 5W-30 would be fine. I'll try to get Toyota's official take on this next week to clear up the confusion.

R2

[DerFlosser]

... Tried 5w-20, went around the block, and the engine was so noisy I thought it would explode before I got it back home.

This is such a crock.....clearly you must have had no oil in the car if this happened. :laughabove:

[1stToyota]

Well they haven't taken the GF-3 off the cap either-and GF-3 has been obsolete for many years

My point about the sound is that thicker oils tend to dampen noise better than lighter oils but it is not necessarily an indicator of increased wear. Oils of the same viscosity can also exhibit differences in sound dampening depending on how they are formulated.

At any rate I think the intention of the TSB is quite clear and the NZ series is plainly listed in the 5W-20 column. Warranty wise GF-4 in either 5W-20 or 5W-30 would be fine. I'll try to get Toyota's official take on this next week to clear up the confusion.

R2

I think it's clear that companies like Ford and Honda have been recommending 5w20 for many years, not just in a TSB, but in their manuals, on their caps and hood labels, so no confusion there.

[1stToyota]

+1 on this comment. Tried 5w-20, went around the block, and the engine was so noisy I thought it would explode before I got it back home.

Well, I know you're certainly not the first member here that went back to 5w30 after trying 5w20, stating that more noise was noticed with a 5w20 fill.

[R2D2]

I think it's clear that companies like Ford and Honda have been recommending 5w20 for many years, not just in a TSB, but in their manuals, on their caps and hood labels, so no confusion there.

Yes and it would be nice if Toyota would be a little more clear about it-when you buy a 2009 model that still specs GF-3 YEARS after you release a TSB recommending the current spec oil who wouldn't expect some consumer confusion. Plus they are screwing themselves CAFE wise.

R2

[DerFlosser]

Well, I know you're certainly not the first member here that went back to 5w30 after trying 5w20, stating that more noise was noticed with a 5w20 fill.

I'll be changing the oil in 2 weeks and I'll let you know if there is any audible difference. I am guessing that there will be zero.

[1stToyota]

I'll be changing the oil in 2 weeks and I'll let you know if there is any audible difference. I am guessing that there will be zero.

I'll just go by what you and other members say. Some notice a difference, some say no change. I myself don't know about the NZ because I've always stuck with the 5w30 so far.

[severous01]

if i can find it cheap i'll get with the 20, otherwise i'll get 30.

i had no idea that this would spark a huge debate. i was just wondering about the 0w. i notice it pours like water and is very thin, but then again it's supposed to be. it has anti-bubbling agents and wear protectors in it just like the 30, it has the winter additives just like the 30, but it's just a little thinner at temp.

my main thing was the 0w. so my question has been answered and i appreciate the comments

[DerFlosser]

so were you considering 0w-30 or 5w-20 or 0w-20?

[Altitude]

I just picked up some of the 0w-30 and will keep an eye on the mileage to see if it improves.

[R2D2]

So I called Toyota customer service today and got the mantra about "use what it says on the oil cap"-and got the same from the dealer. Both seemed unaware of the TSB and neither seemed to know why a 2009 MY vehicle would still be specing ILSAC GF-3 and API SL via oil cap. (Neither even appeared to know what to heck I was talking about for that matter).
That TSB is one confusion causing document judging by the similar discussions I've seen elsewhere on the net. I guess the only for sure is to use the 5W-30 at this point.

R2

[Yaris Hilton]

As for oil specifications, there have been a few exceptions in recent years, but the normal presumption has been that successive specifications cover earlier ones, so "GF-3 or better" is how I'd read that. My oil caps don't mention anything except 5W-30.

[R2D2]

Yep I agree Yaris-I just don't get the bugle blowing about GF-4 in the TSB then leaving GF-3 on the cap 2 model years afterward.

[DerFlosser]

...I guess the only for sure is to use the 5W-30 at this point.

R2

I assume that you state this as "matter of fact" or are you planning to switch back.

[TheSilkySmooth]

Jeepers - the TSB says AT THE TOP IN RED OUTLINED BOX NOTICE: ' use the grade that is on your fill cap and in your manual' how more CLEAR do you want? So you just put in a lower grade that can DAMAGE you engine? Even the owners manual recommend THICKER oil for high speed highway and other severe operating conditions to properly lubricate the engine. Going DOWN a grade puts you into - spin a bearing, collapse a skirt territiory. The Title of the TSB is not "substituting 5w-20 for Toyota Engines" its, "ILSAC GF4 Engine Oil Recomendation" - but like we have a choice to buy GF3. Terrible, confusing TSB, toyota better get their act together!

[TheSilkySmooth]

BTW castrol 0w-30 is BS 0W, given it specs more like a 10w-35. The oil does NOT have that great of cold pumpability compared, say, to Castrol Edge. The GC 0w30 is about 60,000 cSt at -40 and the Edge is about 12,000 cSt at -35. BIG difference. This engine wants a low HTHS energy conserving oil, GC is NOT - its TOO thick at 100c at 12+ cSt and its an A3/B3 not an A1/A5. Use the European spec - they make MORE sense - just like the Metric system. Look for A1/A5.

[R2D2]

DerFlosser and others,

If the issue gets forced (as in engine failure under warranty)I could see the dealer saying the TSB only applies to the 07 Yaris even though the engines are the same in 08 and 09. This could make it a lot harder for people using 5W-20 to get their claim settled. Therefore personally I couldn't continue to recommend 5W-20 without advising of potential warranty headaches. I still feel that 5W/0W-20 are better choices for most in these engines.

So I guess it's about personal comfort. Myself, I've never stuck strictly to the recommended oil or drain intervals on ANY vehicle I've ever owned (nor had any engine related issues). They are recommendations and they have to take into account the absolute worse case scenario and come out with one-size-fits-all for the consumer.

The M-M Warranty Act dictates they have to prove going outside the recommendations caused the problem but the reality is the consumer is in the tough spot, should anything happen.

Personally I like the 5W-20 and I'll stick with it but I'm realistic about the risk -like anyone should be with any type of "mod". I'm in the market for a 5W-20 oil cap since that's all the dealer cares about :) From what I've been reading elsewhere there are quite a few Yarii running on 5W-20 based on TSB EG018-06, "correct" or not.

For those of you wanting to use 0W-30 technically you may be in a similar boat even though as mentioned above 0W-30 is the same viscosity at operating temp as 5W-30 and simply has upgraded cold start properties. Usually on most 0W-30 oil bottles it says something to the effect of "may be used where 5W-30 or 10W-30 are recommended". But it's not on the cap...

So is the way I see it after my conversations yesterday.

R2

[R2D2]

BTW castrol 0w-30 is BS 0W, given it specs more like a 10w-35. The oil does NOT have that great of cold pumpability compared, say, to Castrol Edge. The GC 0w30 is about 60,000 cSt at -40 and the Edge is about 12,000 cSt at -35. BIG difference. This engine wants a low HTHS energy conserving oil, GC is NOT - its TOO thick at 100c at 12+ cSt and its an A3/B3 not an A1/A5. Use the European spec - they make MORE sense - just like the Metric system. Look for A1/A5.

+1 on GC being too thick for a Yaris-it's nearly 40 wt

R2

[Inspector14]

I have done some research in the last week regarding oil viscosity, looking at cold flow, cold pumping, and viscosity in centistokes.

i took this information from the manufacturer data sheets, from their websites. German castrol is far too thick, i was surprised at its ratings for being a 0w-30. i was also surprised at the viscositiy ratings for what i thought were run of the mill conventional. Pennzoil YB was pretty good, coming in with low numbers like Penn Plat.

i am currently using castrol edge, because i fell for the marketing, i am going to be changing my oil this weekend (wed/thurs for me) to formula shell synthetic 5w-20. it is by far the lowest viscosity 5w-20 i found. with GC coming in at a 60,000 on cold flow properties at -30c, formula shell synthetic (from its datasheet) comes in at -arround 9400 at -35c. thats all i am concerned with.

im going to give it a try. one thing i did learn after comparing everything, is that marketing plays a huge roll, and that whatever you use, it will be just fine. they are all so close together, it makes almost no difference.

[severous01]

im running 0-30 now and was wondering about the 0-20 from mobil 1 because it was 20 bux per 5qt at walmart.

where penz plat was 26, my normal valvoline full syn was 24, and bottles of mobil 1 were 7 bux. i figured that saving 10 bux vs quarts and buying the cheapest and getting 'the best' would be better.

any way, i can stick with the 0-30, it's a good a oil as any out there for my climate. never gets below 40 and never above 110. not too bad, but sux on the AC system.

[Henry G.]

If I go 0w-30 in the winter which synthetic brand would you guys suggest? I used Mobil 1 last winter.....

[Lazerdot]

Amsoil Signature Series 0w30 is good for 17500 miles or one year under severe conditions (35,000 miles or a year under Normal conditions). As an AMSOIL dealer I hope you'll go to TruLube.com and check it out.

Lots of oil info on this forum, use what s best for you.:burnrubber:

[TheSilkySmooth]

I am currently using castrol edge, because i fell for the marketing, i am going to be changing my oil this weekend (wed/thurs for me) . Dont fall for the BITOG bull. Edge is a superior oil with stroong ADDS pack and long drain capability and cold flow in the 5w-30 wt close to 0w-20. I would run the 5w-30 edge though - its pretty much a "strong" 20wt. Its also easily good for 7500+/6 mo OCI in any circumstance. Given its cold flow, its majority REAL synthetic base, whereas the Shell is prob a slack wax group iii+ not bad, but not a premium $$ basestock - A good $4/qt oil though. BTW, EDGE is on sale at walmart for 26.50 in my town for 5 qt jugs ($5.30/qt - not bad for a extended drain oil (ACEA A5 that meets corvette spec)

[TheSilkySmooth]

If I go 0w-30 in the winter which synthetic brand would you guys suggest? I used Mobil 1 last winter..... Did you use M1 AFE or just plain old M1? Most people like Penn Plat, but Edge now the price is down should "slaughter" M1. ExxonMobil tend to use group iv PAO base oils which do have good cold flow but do NOT have good wear or solubility characteristics. You'll see high Iron wear and engine noise complaints about M1 all the time.

[TheSilkySmooth]

On an oil board, someone said there is a Pennzoil Platinum coupon on their web page - If I can get a "faux" synthetic for a conventional oil price I'd take it. Euro synthetics (REAL synthetic) are very pricey; near $10/L

[Inspector14]

Dont fall for the BITOG bull. Edge is a superior oil with stroong ADDS pack and long drain capability and cold flow in the 5w-30 wt close to 0w-20. I would run the 5w-30 edge though - its pretty much a "strong" 20wt. Its also easily good for 7500+/6 mo OCI in any circumstance. Given its cold flow, its majority REAL synthetic base, whereas the Shell is prob a slack wax group iii+ not bad, but not a premium $$ basestock - A good $4/qt oil though. BTW, EDGE is on sale at walmart for 26.50 in my town for 5 qt jugs ($5.30/qt - not bad for a extended drain oil (ACEA A5 that meets corvette spec)

its not the infor from BITOG that i am going away from edge. i am looking at the raw data from the testing done for the product data sheet. this compares 5w-30 edge to 5w-20 penn plat, they dont make a 5-20 edge.

Castrol Edge 5w-30: cSt @40* C = 54.1, cSt @100*c = 9.8, crank viscosity @ -35*c = 4075, pumping viscosity @-35c = 11524.

Pennzoil Platinum 5w-20: cSt 40*c= 46.8, cSt 100*c= 8.4, crank visc= 4250@-35c, pump visc 9700@ -35.

the best one i found was FormulaShell Synthetic 5w-20, but i cant get that here other than from a wholesaler by the case.

FormulaShell 5w-20: cSt @40c = 46.5, cSt @100c = 8.7, crank visc= 3480@-35c, pump visc = 9300 @-35c

i would bet mobil1 would have similar properties, but their data sheets do not provide all of his information. what did surprise me was how "thick" Amsoil is when its cold, and also how thick royal purple is as well. amsoil did no provide a cold pumping viscosty, but royal purple comes in at 22,000. well above any of the other group 3 synthetics.

i dont really care about additive packs, etc. they are all good enough if the have the API ratings, and the Ilsac ratings. they are all so close together anymore.

i was only looking at cold flow poperties. how well the oil could be pumped and how well it flowed in cold, cold weather. My car is parked outside all winter long, with no block heater or even a place to plug one in if i had one, so i need an oil that will still flow very well even when its -30* outside.

ps, idont know if those measurments are what i should be looking at. im sure the lower cSt number = "thinner"/ more fluid/ less viscous. and i think that the crank and cold pump numbers = lower is less viscous. 1= water that kinda thing.

[opt101]

Being a new owner of a 2007 yaris, and reading the TSB, I just got of the phone with Toyota (800-331-4331) and had the rep pull up the TSB on his own with out me telling him the tsb number (I played dumb, and said I heard of a TSB about oil on the net), after a brief hold while he went to check more in depth about the TSB, he stated that use what the manual and cap says, and that the TSB was either being recalled, and or was canceled/discontinued by Toyota, but some dealers have some knowledge of it and make reference to it to some customers. So his recommendation was stick to the cap and manual says. So after reading the countless post and Toyota’s verification, I will just stick with what the cap says I guess. :w00t:

[DerFlosser]

I decided to stick with 5w-30. I may move to 0w-30 next year. My car only has 7K miles on it.