So, not sure how to feel on this little matter..?

[Jem_hadar]

So I just took my 07 Yaris Hatch into the dealership for its regular service appt yesterday.

First my disclaimer, explaining a bit of the background.

So your car should be taken in for its regular servicing every 6 months or 8,000 km (whichever occurs first), I know. Now, I've been guilty of going a hundred, or several hundred, kms over the appointed mileage when my car gets actually serviced (ie. for my 8,000 km appt I went in at 8,102 km; my 16,000 km appt occurred at 16,508; etc.).

The reason is usually a result of the delay between the day I set up the appt and the day the appt actually occurs (ie. I'll call abt setting up an appt on a Thurs, say, but I cannot get my Yaris in until the following Monday). If I happen to have to drive down to Toronto that weekend, I'll end up putting 500+ km onto my car in the meantime.

(And once, back at the 18 month service appt, I was quite bad and went over the 24,000 km mark by about 3,000 km. I can’t recall why now, but it happened. Really bad, I know. Moving on...)

I’ve had my Yaris for approx 41 months.

So, taking all the above into account, here starts my story.

When I took my Yaris in for its next appt yesterday (Monday), for what technically should have been its 42 month / 56,000 km service appt, it turns out my mileage was closer to the 64,000 km mark (around 1,000 km shy of that). (Yikes, i know!).

Anyways, so without informing me, the dealership just went ahead and performed the 48 month / 64,000km "maintenance service" instead, which also included the cabin air filter replacement and manual transmission fluid replacement (both heftier charges at ~ $50 +tax and ~ $85 +tax respectively).

All that was called for at the 42 months / 56,000 km mark was an "oil and filter service" (~ $25 +tax job).

Now, it’s not even really abt the extra $$ of paying for a $185 servicing instead of what I thought would be only a $35 job.

By and large, I think what I'm somewhat annoyed by are these 4 things:

1) They never *informed* me or communicated at all beforehand that they were skipping the 42 month / 56,000 km servicing and jumping right to the 48 month / 64,000 km servicing! I feel I should have been advised or consulted abt this before they went and did it. Non?

2) I just had my cabin air filter now changed 6 months / 8,000 kms ago! It didn't need to be changed again so soon! It only needs to be replaced every 12 months / 16,000 kms! What a needless waste of a still perfectly fine cabin air filter and $50, IMO.

3) If I had known they would be changing my transmission oil (which is only done every 4 years / 64,000 kms, btw), I'd have bought and brought in with me my own synthetic transmission oil for them to use instead of their overpriced standard non-synthetic "Toyota" oil!

4) I supplied my own synthetic motor oil for them to use. It was a 4.4 L jug. I see from the manual that the Yaris only uses 3.7 L of motor oil. But the container was not left in my car with the remaining oil that should have been left. What happened to it? Did they really just throw it all out!? Again, if true, what a waste of oil and my money.

So, I dunno, am I being overly sensitive or unreasonable in my thinking here?

(And re: the synth motor oil, maybe there's typically always oil waste or spillage (I've never changed my own oil before, so I have no idea)? Is it crazy to think that if you provide the dealership with a 4.4L jug of oil that you'd get the jug back with round 0.7 L still in it (since the Yaris only takes 3.7 L of oil with filter)?

Comments, thoughts, opinions?

Cheers.

[Shroomster]

I'd check your dipstick before anything else. To say they wasted it would be overcompensating most dealerships...

[tomato]

hmmm.. dealers are tough. When my 60K service was up, they tried to stick me with a lot of unnecessary work (car had just been through a thorough "certified" check up, and all the fluids were already topped off, etc., less than a couple thousand miles prior, so I knew I didn't need the work).

You have to make sure you know exactly what they're going to do, how much you're going to pay before hand, if that's possible.

After my experience shopping for the car, and then shopping for service at various dealerships, let me tell you, I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. Even had a service manager tell me "you don't want your car to be unsafe on the road, do you?" That's because I didn't want to pay for something the car didn't need done - and they have records of service in their computer, so I think they knew they were trying to stick it to me and still gave me party line. Well, that particular dealership lost me as a client for good now (as far as service is concerned at least).

Some forum members gave me a pretty good idea, and that is to start looking already for an independent mechanic. I have a couple more years on the powertrain warranty but, still, I think I will from now on, I will go to a private mechanic. just keep records of everything done on the car, just in case, though.

Well, that's my 2 c anyway.

[YarisSedan]

I am actually a service writer myself and know the laws. Without verbal or written consent no work can be performed on your vehicle without your permission. If anything is taken apart or replaced without your knowledge then it is now free. Most major shops have a recording machine that records all phone calls. So they document on the final work order so and so authorized additional repairs beyond the original signed estimate on so and so date and time.

If the owner trys to contest it and it goes to court, they know the date and time to pull the phone records. If you didnt drop the car off but are waiting then they would have to print a revised estimate and have you sign it before continuing with additional work.

Now here comes the tricky part it sounds like you already picked up and paid for the car. Which means you signed the final estimate saying you agreed and paid for the repairs. They have a copy and you should have a copy. So it will be difficult now to prove your case.

What you could now is file a complaint with the beuro of automotive repair and they will do a investigation. Probably finding this is a common practice. The dealership not wanting to get a unresolved mark on their record will refund you the money to have the case closed. At the same time you may want to file a complain with consumer affairs as well which will do a similar thing.

Before you do those 2 things though you may go back to the dealership and speak to a service manager and explain your situation. Acting calm and collective. If they still don't attempt to help you in any way then start to get irate and throw accusations like "i will report you to the bar, consumer affairs and write a bad review about you guys online this is unfair and unjust."

I am willing to bet 100 dollars that they will sing a different tune. Hope this helps.

[tomato]

He's in Canada, though. Different laws?

[Bob Dog]

They tried to charge me for putting automatic transmission fluid in my Tacoma and it has manual transmission. They will try just about anythiing that they think they can get away with.

[devinlamothe]

They usually make you sign a sheet with what work they will be performing when you drop your car off. If the work they performed was NOT mentioned on this sheet, I would fight it and not pay for any of the extra work, since they are supposed to call you and ASK if you would like it done.

Trust me, this happened to me once, I asked for the initial document I signed, which was different from the work performed, and I did not have to pay for the extra work. Just ask to see the service manager.

[SpaceShot]

I would say look for a local mechanic that someone will recommend and only ever go back to the dealer for recall service.

You wanted your vehicle handled a particular way, but at the dealer, you have the service writer, the shop foreman, the mechanic, and maybe even a tech involved. Any one of them could have simply goofed and defaulted to doing whatever the mileage interval dictated rather than the written order. Not to mention that most dealers are hurting and have added incentive to balance out the loss in monthly sales with extra service income.

I don't think you'll be able to argue for much of a refund. They may offer you a free oil change or some other discount on a future service appointment. But do you even want that?
The Yaris is not a complex car. Spend your next round of service money with someone you would like to do business with. Try them out with something routine like a safety inspection or tire and oil change to see if you like how are treated. Then you will have options for any major service later.

[yaris-me]

If you signed something before the service, you have authorized them to perform the necessary service.

[DevilGirl]

If you signed something before the service, you have authorized them to perform the necessary service.

But only that to which was signed for. If they went above and beyond the signed authorization without seeking owner approval, they cannot expect you to pay for it.

My advice, no matter where you take it, dealer or private mechanic, always look over what is being done, and if there is to be anything beyond what was initially agreed to, indicate that they are to call for authorization to do the work.

I've always done that, so that when I do go back and pick up the car, I know what I have to pay for.

[roxy1]

just be glad there wasnt a major warranty issue with your engine.

when you go over 1800 miles past a scheduled maintenance interval, toyota could easily deny warranty coverage.

[DevilGirl]

when you go over 1800 miles past a scheduled maintenance interval, toyota could easily deny warranty coverage.

Really?? :eek: I'll have to keep that in mind... But for regular things such as oil changes, so long as I have receipts from doing it on my own, can they deny coverage?

[kustom play]

Roxy1:

they cant deny your warranty coverage for not having scheduled maintenance. why do people keep posting about stuff they have no idea about

they have to prove that the part is casued by so and so to not offer a warranty anymore. So lets say your engine blows up, they find water in the cylinders and then see your Cold air intake is so low it drags on the ground and doesnt have a bypass. then they said boom that caused it.

now lets say your engine blows for some other reason, say like a cracked cylinder due to the manufactoring process, they cant say you didnt get your 60k service so we wont honor it.

this has been said thousands of times yet people still come up with the most random shit

we just had the TC in becasue the alternator was acting up, car has never once been in for maintaince and is extreemly modded, they replaced the alternator due to it being bad. none of the other parts on the car caused it so they had no choice but to replace it

I wouldnt of paid for the extra service

you could of got it for free, if you didnt agree to it then its not your problem

[tomato]

Roxy1:

why do people keep posting about stuff they have no idea about



'cause they can :biggrin:

[talnlnky]

1: I don't understand why you'd think they'd do an oil change service for a different mileage than the one that you car would dictate.. (unless you tell them to be overly anal and do extra checks and such in advance).... you're at 64... you get 64...

2: They should've asked for your authorization to touch the change filter & trans fluid... In the states shit would be hitting the fan if they didn't contact the owner for that authorization first.

3: You should get that extra liter or so of oil back in the container.... I've done that bit probably 5 times, and always get the oil back... my only problem is that they put the jug on the passenger seat, and sometimes there is a dribble of oil on my seat by the time I get to the car.

I'd be mad, I'd go back, with a can of synthetic trans oil... and demand they drain and put your stuff in now cause they never asked.... I'd also ask for my oil back. Tho.... I think you have much better luck if you do it at the time of service.... and refuse to pay until they make some concessions.

[roxy1]

Roxy1:

they cant deny your warranty coverage for not having scheduled maintenance. why do people keep posting about stuff they have no idea about

they have to prove that the part is casued by so and so to not offer a warranty anymore.

wow. you are so very smart. i assume you work in the toyota warranty claims division. thanks for your wisdom. that is the point!! warranty claims can and do get denied for failure to have scheduled maintence. yes there has to be a connection proven. Toyota has the shown the ability to prove such a connection in some cases.

there is a case pending at our local toyota dealer where a camry owner's engine seized (ran dry 2500 miles past scheduled maintenance). all other maintenance was documented. toyota denied the warranty claim based on this. customer has appealed. i expect toyota will win this case. how can toyota do this. they cover their a**ses with the language they use to describe what constitutes "normal oil consumption" in their manuals. (ie had oil change been done on schedule, engine oil would not have run dry).

so, to make you happy, ill qualify what i said "just be glad there wasnt a major warranty issue with your engine. when you go over 1800 miles past a scheduled maintenance interval, toyota could easily deny warranty coverage if an engine failure was deemed by toyota to have been the result of missing an oil change."

it has happened with toyota vehicles. on the yaris specifically, i dont know what is considered "normal" oil consumption per the yaris manual.

[Jem_hadar]

Well, it appears much of it my fault then, bc i did sign a document when i dropped off my keys, but of course, I didnt read the document as I should have, and just signed -- my own fault, i know.

I think may just go in to see Tim, my original salesman, who I talk to whenever I see, and pass on my feelings about the whole situation, even though it turns out a large part of it was likely caused via my negligence to read what I was handed to sign -- though I still can contend, I think, that they, the service department, really should have known and realized i had had my cabin air filter changed by them not less than 6 months ago, non!?

Obviously i appear to be partly or wholly to blame for the extra work (at least transmission fluid change) by not reading the initial signed document (which I will comment though provided had no estimate or quote).

But i still think they should have caught the whole cabin air filter issue -- esp sine they serviced it last time.

And I still think I should have gotten some oil back.

And I still wish the service reps had communicated better with me about what I was in for this time, esp since they were jumping a whole scheduled service appt.

What's done is done. I'm not looking for reimbursement or to get something for free, though if they offered, free of charge, to drain the trans oil they put in and allow me to bring in some synthetic oil to replace it with, I would very happy.

I think I just want to air my feelings to my dealership, and be done with it, get it off my chest officially.

[IllusionX]

i used to follow the 8000km/16000km/24000km/32000km schedule.. but noticed that it doesn't really matter.

I mean, if you go over.. then you went over. Say you did your first oil change at 8100km, your next one would be at 16100km right? what if you did another 100km over? 24200km ?

at one point, you are not REALLY going to follow the schedule as exactly as it should. Even if you've not done the 56000km maintenance, you've already hit 64k, your transmission oil should be changed according to the 64k km schedule.

I understand you might be grumpy about the filters change, but i always specify do not do any other maintenance except what i mention. So an oil change is an oil change. Although, i've not been to the dealer for a really long time for maintenance.

And btw, for some odd reasons, i'm doing an oil change at 70300km! Anyhow, i say screw the maintenance schedule, at least, for oil changes. Filters should be changed when dirty, not according to some kind of schedules. Oil changes is at 8000km, so i reset my B trip counter. When it's approaching 8000km, i prepare myself for oil change.

[tomato]

I think may just go in to see Tim, my original salesman, who I talk to whenever I see, and pass on my feelings about the whole situation, even though it turns out a large part of it was likely caused via my negligence to read what I was handed to sign -- though I still can contend, I think, that they, the service department, really should have known and realized i had had my cabin air filter changed by them not less than 6 months ago, non!?

...

I think I just want to air my feelings to my dealership, and be done with it, get it off my chest officially.

Worth a try but you know, sales is sales, and service department is a completely different story, like 2 different companies (Come to think of it, I don't think that practice is limited to car dealerships, you know sales and support usually have a very different vintage point). So anyway you can always go talk to your guy, but chances are nothing much is going to happen after that.

But hey, I'm not an expert or anything, I'm just giving my humble opinion that's all. :iono: sure wouldn't want to offend the more knoweldgeable members of this forum or anything :wink::smile:

[kustom play]

wow. you are so very smart. i assume you work in the toyota warranty claims division. thanks for your wisdom. that is the point!! warranty claims can and do get denied for failure to have scheduled maintence. yes there has to be a connection proven. Toyota has the shown the ability to prove such a connection in some cases.

there is a case pending at our local toyota dealer where a camry owner's engine seized (ran dry 2500 miles past scheduled maintenance). all other maintenance was documented. toyota denied the warranty claim based on this. customer has appealed. i expect toyota will win this case. how can toyota do this. they cover their a**ses with the language they use to describe what constitutes "normal oil consumption" in their manuals. (ie had oil change been done on schedule, engine oil would not have run dry).

so, to make you happy, ill qualify what i said "just be glad there wasnt a major warranty issue with your engine. when you go over 1800 miles past a scheduled maintenance interval, toyota could easily deny warranty coverage if an engine failure was deemed by toyota to have been the result of missing an oil change."

it has happened with toyota vehicles. on the yaris specifically, i dont know what is considered "normal" oil consumption per the yaris manual.

i did/do work for scion/toyota so i think i know what im talking about

theres no way the camry ran dry on its own sorry, my 92 toyota doesnt even burn that much oil and its never seen a service nor have i ever bothered to change the tranny oil nor flush the coolant and it still runs like a champ lol.

im sure it ran dry due to not rotating the tires and changing the tranny fluid lol

thats usually all they do, trust me ive built one of my scions i had in the service bays (one of the reasons i worked at toyota was to use the garage)

schedule service is the biggest money maker that you dont need

i swapped a clutch out on one of my other MR2s which never had the tranny oil changed for 124K and the oil still looked fine.

[kustom play]

i used to follow the 8000km/16000km/24000km/32000km schedule.. but noticed that it doesn't really matter.

I mean, if you go over.. then you went over. Say you did your first oil change at 8100km, your next one would be at 16100km right? what if you did another 100km over? 24200km ?

at one point, you are not REALLY going to follow the schedule as exactly as it should. Even if you've not done the 56000km maintenance, you've already hit 64k, your transmission oil should be changed according to the 64k km schedule.

I understand you might be grumpy about the filters change, but i always specify do not do any other maintenance except what i mention. So an oil change is an oil change. Although, i've not been to the dealer for a really long time for maintenance.

And btw, for some odd reasons, i'm doing an oil change at 70300km! Anyhow, i say screw the maintenance schedule, at least, for oil changes. Filters should be changed when dirty, not according to some kind of schedules. Oil changes is at 8000km, so i reset my B trip counter. When it's approaching 8000km, i prepare myself for oil change.

ive been using royal purple in the yaris (i buy it buy the case of the other cars that we romp on so i just add it in there)

but ive hit the time to change out the oil, i checked it the other day and the oil still looks in great condition, still nice and clear after 5K miles. I was quite impressed. I still think im going to change it but now im just not in a hurry anymore

[roxy1]

i did/do work for scion/toyota so i think i know what im talking about

theres no way the camry ran dry on its own sorry, my 92 toyota doesnt even burn that much oil and its never seen a service nor have i ever bothered to change the tranny oil nor flush the coolant and it still runs like a champ lol.

im sure it ran dry due to not rotating the tires and changing the tranny fluid lol
.

doesnt matter why the camry really ran dry. the denial of the claim is directly connected to the failure to have the oil changed in a timely manner. it had gotten an oil change at the previous intervals, but missed the most recent 2500 miles ago. of course i also believe there is something seriously wrong and missing an oil change didnt "cause" the problem. however, toyota is claiming the amount of oil used to be "within outlined parameters," and that the missed oil change contributed to the engine running dry. bottom line is had the owner done the scheduled oil change, toyota would have no excuses for denying that claim.

im certainly not saying missing an oil change interval would actually cause a REAL problem, but could give toyota an "out" on certain specific engine failures.

[kustom play]

doesnt matter why the camry really ran dry. the denial of the claim is directly connected to the failure to have the oil changed in a timely manner. it had gotten an oil change at the previous intervals, but missed the most recent 2500 miles ago. of course i also believe there is something seriously wrong and missing an oil change didnt "cause" the problem. however, toyota is claiming the amount of oil used to be "within outlined parameters," and that the missed oil change contributed to the engine running dry. bottom line is had the owner done the scheduled oil change, toyota would have no excuses for denying that claim.

im certainly not saying missing an oil change interval would actually cause a REAL problem, but could give toyota an "out" on certain specific engine failures.

missed oil change has nothing to do with it

so what happens if i put fresh oil in right before a trip and start to drive and the oil line blows or splits and oil pours out and boom engine goes or fire starts when it hits the manifold

they still going to say missed oil change? come on

something happened with the engine they cant say it was because of the non oil change. even when the block cracks and coolant mixes with oil and after a while blows, that takes a long time. cars to new, the owner must of did something stupid, or they changed the oil and never tightened up the drain plug and it leaked out.

[roxy1]

missed oil change has nothing to do with it



it has EVERYTHING to do with it. there were no other faults found with the engine, according to the service dept.

is it BS? yes, sure it is. im not arguing that point. there is no way oil should be getting consumed so fast that a 7500 mile interval would run it dry. my point, and the only point, is that missing the oil change interval by such a large amount is precisely what gave the toyota the ability to twist the denial of warranty in this particular case in their favor.

im sure the truth lies elsewhere, but sometimes things aren't fair. the gentleman in this case is getting screwed, to be sure. it isnt the first time it has happened to a customer, and it wont be the last.

[MUSKOKA800]

They don't call them STEALERSHIPS for no reason.

Personally, I buy it, leave and never return useless it's definitely a warranty covered issue.
All the service items and parts are cheaper elsewhere and doing it myself is fun, free and more convenient then working around someone elses schedule.
Everything listed below with the exception of the Toyota Options was installed in my driveway. Same with all maintenance thus far. I'm nearing 50,000 kl.

[markitect]

it has EVERYTHING to do with it. there were no other faults found with the engine, according to the service dept.

If it was a catastrophic failure resulting in sudden oil loss there would have been signs all over the engine compartment. If it was a slow leak, then performing regular maintenance, or just checking your fluids on a regular basis would have easily prevented the failure.

Normally I agree that car companies try to screw you over when possible, but in that case Toyota is probably right.


For the OP, I do about the same thing, I recently was getting the previous service done about 1000k miles short of the next one. My dealership however asked me which service I wanted. If there is another dealership near by, I would move my business there.