An Open Letter to YarisBueller and VitzBoy

[tk-421]

Hello YarisBueller and VitzBoy,

First of all, I want to thank you for bringing such a great site to the internet. I log on every day, and I don't really do that with any other site (besides GMail I guess). I have enjoyed spending time on this site for a few years now.

That said, I have been concerned with how the forums have been riddled with spam lately, as well as how some new members have been treated. This kind of negativity got even worse after the hack a few months ago.

I know first-hand how hard it is to maintain a site of this size, especially when one has little extra free time to do it. On the other hand, I have witnessed how sites that are much larger than YW end up being taken down because the people in charge are just... not there. Of course, I don't mean any disrespect. I'm sure you guys have very valid reasons for this, and I don't even want to speculate as to why this is the case.

What I do want to say is that some very valuable members have decided to leave YW because of this, and that has lead to lower-quality material being posted on the forums. And things don't seem to be improving either: I already know of at least 2 new Yaris-related forums that have been created by current and ex-YW members that are just fed up with how these forums have been handled. This kind of fragmentation can be detrimental to the survival of any site.

I have been thinking long and hard as to what could be the best way to deal with these issues once and for all, and after communicating with many fellow members off-site, I have reached a decision to write this letter as a genuine effort to bring YW back to what it originally was 3 years ago: A site with many friendly and knowledgeable members that are always there to lend a hand to anybody that needs it. A site where Yaris fans can be themselves without other members stomping on their every thread. A site that is constantly being updated with fresh, valuable, Yaris-focused content.

We all wish for YW to retain its leadership. But actions speak louder than words. YW truly needs care and attention, not just from its members and moderators (who by the way are awesome for the most part), but especially from their admins, who are really the people behind the wheel, so to speak.

I think YW would benefit greatly by just making a few modifications here and there, such as:

1. Adding moderators from more varied geographical locations
This would help on many fronts: For one, some mods can take over while the others are sleeping (or working, or having a life). Secondly, it would really help in making this site a YarisWORLD by encouraging members from other countries (and languages) to join in. Lastly, it is a lot easier to deal with spam at different times.

2. A way to reward members that offer valuable, original information
This is SORELY needed IMO. Post numbers are inaccurate and overrated. A way to tell who actually knows something by looking at their "rep level" would be both helpful to noobs and encouraging to those members to continue delivering helpful advice.

3. Build a WIKI
This is something that I proposed a looong time ago, and it apparently fell on deaf ears. We've all seen how asking people to "do a search" is not always enough for them to actually find something of value. Why? Because there's just too much information buried between lots and lots of useless (and often duplicate) babble. A wiki solves this problem by providing a centralized page with nothing but useful information. This could be even better if wiki contributors got "rep points" for their efforts as well (see point 2 above).

These are only a few examples that would surely benefit everyone with minimal intervention from the admins' part. I am sure other members have great ideas that could be implemented just as easily by you guys. And of course if you don't have the time, there's a few web designers roaming around the forums that would surely do it for you (myself included).

Thank you for giving me the time to voice my concerns. I really hope you don't take this letter as anything other than an open hand from myself to improve the site. Let's make YW all it can possibly be, while at the same time maintaining its status as the #1 Yaris-related site on the internet.

[Shroomster]

CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM


- rep levels get abused too easily. I think instead of that it would be better for there to be medals/logos handed out by the mods/admin (voted on by the forum itself) that are placed in the members profile or quick glance on the side of the post.


like suspension guru etc.

- moderators yeah we need them, have the current mods done everything they can?

hell yes. but seriously it's up to the Admins to make the call for more mods and frankly I know I've asked a few times for more moderators, and pretty much got no response.



Don't take this the wrong way, this is a free site; you get what you pay for.

[tk-421]

CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM


- rep levels get abused too easily. I think instead of that it would be better for there to be medals/logos handed out by the mods/admin (voted on by the forum itself) that are placed in the members profile or quick glance on the side of the post.


like suspension guru etc.

Although I agree that the ideal way to hand out rep levels would be via the mods/admins, I'm not sure if they would be able (or even willing) to vote on countless members individually. I think they already have their hands full as it is. :iono:

- moderators yeah we need them, have the current mods done everything they can?

hell yes. but seriously it's up to the Admins to make the call for more mods and frankly I know I've asked a few times for more moderators, and pretty much got no response.I agree with this, and I believe it's the FIRST thing that needs to change. We need admins (and some mods) to step up to the plate and voice an opinion!

Don't take this the wrong way, this is a free site; you get what you pay for.It is free, yes... But it is also a very valuable resource! How much money have each of us saved by reading some of those great DIY threads alone?

Heck, I'm actually willing to donate some money every now and then if that will ensure that at least some of these concerns get addressed quickly enough... And I'm pretty sure some other members would too if given the chance.

[1NZYaris1]

Stepping up :redface:
This may be a free site , but we and i hope this correct , are here because
of a varity of reason's not least to meat people , and to help out others -wheather it be good or bad advice:biggrin:.
Also to share our passion and sometimes hate for the Yaris

Not to abuse people like what has happened in the past.
if you can't say somthing nice (ie not abussive) then don't post a response and leave the thread . :thumbup:

I have too totally agree with you TK , we need more Mod's and i think
you are on the right track in saying they need to from different time Zones (countries )
Spam will always be hard to control , but it does need to be Done .
and the more Mod's the better i say :bow:
This is a complement to our current Mod's , they are doing an awsome job , considering they don't get paid .
and they do have a life .


muddled as it is, that is my thoughts.
:respekt:

[eTiMaGo]

Thanks for putting this up, TK, I think it addresses a lot of unsaid things.

It is no secret that YW's not the place it used to be 3,2 or even 1 year ago. One could say that everything that could be talked about the car has already been said, but that's not quite true, there's always some new aspect to be discovered.

So yes, I agree that something needs to be done. Yes, we already have a handful of moderators who are doing what they can to keep this place under control. But, we have no real leadership, nobody to really look up to, to make hard decisions and make real changes.

1) More moderators, sure, spam is annoying but not quite life-or-death-omfg-delete-it-now-or-we-all-die important. The problem is we don't have any kind of agreed-upon rules laying down what is acceptable behavior and what is not. No amount of new mods is gonna change that. There again, we need leadership, it's not like we own the place.

2) Rep level, I dunno, can be abused to easily... Though I have seen on some other forums a "thanks" button, so if someone posts something informative, it will add to their "thanks" tally, far more informative than post counts and can't be abused like with a rep system

3) Agreed, a central knowledgebase with all DIYs, technical info, minimal comments, and so on, would be real useful

But, none of this can happen without the involvement of our founders, they hold the keys, literally. And no amount of pleading or reasoning seems to have an effect, so we're stuck. :iono:

[tk-421]

Thanks for your support, Ray!
YW could use more members like you, buddy. :thumbsup:

Just one thing: At least meet people first before you try meating them! :laugh::respekt:

This may be a free site , but we and i hope this correct , are here because of a varity of reason's not least to meat people , and to help out others -wheather it be good or bad advice:biggrin:.

[1NZYaris1]

Doh , me bad , you sore straight through me :laugh:

[tomato]

I'm relatively new here but i'll throw in my 2 c. Compared to some other sites, the SPAM is really not that bad here. I mean, it's handled pretty quickly, so whoever is cleaning it up needs a bit of recognition

:clap::thumbsup::headbang:

[tk-421]

Thanks for putting this up, TK, I think it addresses a lot of unsaid things.

Thanks Thomas! :thumbsup:

2) Rep level, I dunno, can be abused to easily... Though I have seen on some other forums a "thanks" button, so if someone posts something informative, it will add to their "thanks" tally, far more informative than post counts and can't be abused like with a rep system

I think that would be perfect! A good example of this used to be UbuntuForums, but it looks like they removed it for some reason

[tk-421]

I'm relatively new here but i'll throw in my 2 c. Compared to some other sites, the SPAM is really not that bad here. I mean, it's handled pretty quickly, so whoever is cleaning it up needs a bit of recognition

:clap::thumbsup::headbang:
Definitely. Those guys are awesome!
I think a PayPal tip jar should be set up just for the mods. :smile:

[47_MasoN_47]

The rep level stuff, as others have mentioned, often is abused or simply turned into a "popularity contest". The Ubuntu forums used to have one of those thanks systems but ultimately abandoned it because it was abused also. Things like that are always hard to maintain on forums, as why most large forums don't have them. Take the Xbox-Scene forums for example, there are over 400,000 members there, but everyone pretty much knows the knowledgeable people just because of what they have accomplished. IMO, the best way to show you are knowledgeable is to post helpful, informative topics. Link them in your signature so that people can find them easily, post replies often and in a courteous informative manner. I'm not trying to bash your idea, but generally the people who are truly helpful and would deserve the reputation/thanks aren't easy to find. I've only been here a few weeks and I've already picked out several people that I consider helpful and definitely know what they are talking about. Most of the time you end up with members of low-moderate quality focusing primarily on gathering rep/thanks (for whatever reason) instead of actually being helpful.

I don't hang around here all hours of the day, or for very long each day, but I don't notice a lot of spam in the main few threads I post in (mostly the technical forums).

I haven't been here long enough to know what's going on with the moderators, other than apparently there is a lack of them.

[cali yaris]

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/ver4/buttons/report.gif

^ If everyone used this for spam and offensive posts, and there won't be any problem.

the main problem here is (1) lack of Admin presence and (2) lack of clear instructions/guidelines for the members.

Neither of which will change soon, I think. It is what it is.

[mrbond]

I think I agree most with #3, since spam is quickly gotten rid of and doesn't affect other threads. Plus, when I need to find something I looked at, say, a month ago, it starts to become a monumental pain in the ass. As for rep levels, I think it's a great idea since it's found on like Civic forums and NASIOC and all that. However, as it's been stated before, it CAN be abused. If there is a way to properly monitor and administer rep levels, then I'm all for it. Thank you, TK.

[ChinoCharles]

-facepalm-

[TheRealEnth]

-facepalm-


http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/gatsby6306/Smileys/thsmiley_zzrofl1.gif

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I've asked YB about a Spam mod crew (if you may), but never received a response. I've been here for quite some time, and lurked for a few months before buying my Yaris, and I can really say that it has changed. The environment seems like it has gotten more hostile, and the Spam is crazy some times. But this is why we have mods, to try to keep things in order. I believe I talked to Thomas about having mods in different time zones, but forgot what he said (LOL, sorry Thomas).

I also believe that some of the hostility towards new members is because they ask questions that have been long answered. I, for one, don't mind this. Yes, sure, they can use the search function, but I'm going to assume that some may not see it. It also refreshes some topics for the new people. hehehe.

[TheRealEnth]

Thats why we need the A) WIKI IDEA or B) Really good Sticky Thread

[tuckevalastin]

I don't know why people get so offended by new members asking questions that have been answered before.

Some of the hostile answers that these people get makes me wonder how many new members actually bother staying.

If you don't want to answer something that you think has already been answered why not just ignore the thread all together. There are members who will happily answer and won't have to yell about the search button.

If you drive away all the new members the site will become dormant because there won't be anyone bringing in new ideas. The biggest problem I've ever seen here (other than the hack) is the bad attitude towards new members. I don't know if placing emphasis on being an old member will make this any better.

[tk-421]

Thanks for all the votes/responses so far! :thumbsup:

The rep level stuff, as others have mentioned, often is abused or simply turned into a "popularity contest".

I agree about that. There has to be a way to do this without abuse, however. If you have any ideas, I'd sure like to hear them!

We delete the spam as we see it, and our job doing this is made easier when the members alert us to it...

I agree that we have more helpful members than spammers. But how long do you think before that ratio completely changes? Spam bots are pieces of software that don't sleep. They post new threads at all times of day. And one bot can do a lot of spamming very quickly before it gets caught.

We may have one or two spam bots right now, but what if that number increases dramatically? Will YW members continue reporting them? Especially when the reporting interface actually limits members (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18907) on reporting multiple posts in sequence?

And yes, there will always be some dummies whom create drama on the board, but I think that is necessary to keep us from getting complacent, and sometimes this board does need some humour injected into it to keep it from getting to eliteist...

There's humor, and then there's just having fun at another member's expense. All I'm saying is that there needs to be a better differentiation between the two.

the main problem here is (1) lack of Admin presence and (2) lack of clear instructions/guidelines for the members.

Neither of which will change soon, I think. It is what it is.

I'm a bit confused... You agree with at least one of my points, but you voted that you either don't care (which I'm sure its not the case), or that you completely disagree. Care to tell me why? TIA

I think I agree most with #3, since spam is quickly gotten rid of and doesn't affect other threads. Plus, when I need to find something I looked at, say, a month ago, it starts to become a monumental pain in the ass. As for rep levels, I think it's a great idea since it's found on like Civic forums and NASIOC and all that. However, as it's been stated before, it CAN be abused. If there is a way to properly monitor and administer rep levels, then I'm all for it. Thank you, TK.

Thanks, mrbond! :thumbsup:

-facepalm-

Eloquent as always, Charles... :rolleyes:
Care to tell me why I'm so off-track?

I also believe that some of the hostility towards new members is because they ask questions that have been long answered. I, for one, don't mind this. Yes, sure, they can use the search function, but I'm going to assume that some may not see it. It also refreshes some topics for the new people. hehehe.

Sure, but it also creates more clutter for the next guy looking for the same info, which only adds to the problem. It would me much easier to direct the person to the wiki, where he/she can make a much quicker search and get right to the meat.

[ChinoCharles]

You were right on having mods from different time zones. That would help with the spam thing.

A captcha for signup would also probably eliminate 90% of our spam.

Thomas should have had admin status from the get-go. I understand that there is a concern about giving a member admin status because of the kinds of sweeping changes that allows a person to make, but the level of involvement from our two admins has been problematic at times. Thomas has proven time and time again that if we have a leader here, he is it.

As far as how this forum treats new members, I wholeheartedly disagree and I've grown a little disenchanted from all of the negativity regarding how people are treated on this board. This is the most docile, kind car forum I've ever seen, yet there seems to be some level of striving for a forumtopia among a small contingent of our members. I just don't get it. I really don't. I'm an active member of three car forums and visit another 2 or 3 and I can honestly say this one is a puppy in a lion's cage. Try as you may, you'll never legislate perfection, and to try to do so is overly tiring.

I've been rather happy with the forums lately. I think after Gene left things mellowed out quite a bit and I've only seen one major spam attack in the last month or so. I don't see what the big deal is, but that is just me, and you're CERTAINLY entitled to your opinion, Bernie. I hope you can see where I'm coming from. I always meet YW improvement threads with a good dose of meh.

[ChinoCharles]

And about the wiki... it would serve the forum no proper purpose to set a wiki up because referring people to an off-the-forum wiki detracts from the search engine rankings of the pages of the forum itself. If I don't know these forums exist and I Google something and land on a wiki, theres a good chance I'll never find them. That is all bad.

[AlexNet0]

I personally believe a wiki section will improve the ability of new members (and a good "finite" collaboration area for seasoned members) to find and improve/build/revise upon proven concepts, homemade mods, etc. I personally hate sorting through (as others have said) 5 pages of bullshit to pick out the 10 helpful posts to get something done.
I do, however, believe that this also should be moderated by select members, perhaps a "post and get approval by poll" before being added type system, that way it wont be clogged by useless posts, being the point for such a wiki in the first place.
To address the issue about not being directly linked to the forum, templates can be edited, links and graphics can be added, it can be made very clear that that piece (wiki) is only a very small part of a much larger community effort.

I would be willing to do this, with admin support, of course, since if this never even gets to them its just wasted KB's on their database.

[ChinoCharles]

The political thread adds no fuel to the fire Pavel. I haven't seen one dispute off that thread related to politics at all. You're the only one that carries that thread around, in all honesty.

[ChinoCharles]

I still love you Pavel. :smile:

[tomato]

I also believe that some of the hostility towards new members is because they ask questions that have been long answered..

First of all, if members don't want to answer questions, they don't have to. Nobody forces them.

If someone revives an old thread, they say "this is an old thread, what are you doing?" If someone posts a new thread about a topic that has already been discussed, they say "another useless thread about the same topic." so what are you supposed to do?

About the search function: I couldn't work it for weeks. One of my computers reformats the page in such manner that I can't see everything, no matter where I scroll. The other computer hides half the smiles... So keep in mind that just because it's obvious on your screen, doesn't mean it's obvious on someone else's screen :smile:

By the way, I'm not jumping down your throat, Kaotic, buddy :smile: , I'm just using a piece of your post to say some things that veterans members need to keep in mind, too, that's all.

One more thing about the "search" function. If you don't have exactly the right key word, then you won't find what you're looking for and even when you do, people may be talking about the same thing but that doesn't mean the exact information you're looking for is there...

Peace :headbang:

[tomato]

Oh, shoot, almost forgot why I came back to this thread in the first place! Here goes:

TK-421 (hehehe, by the way, funny name) you wrote a really nice letter. I don't know about the rep level either but :thumbsup: for the initiative, and the letter itself. Well done! :headbang:

[tomato]

One more thing, BTW, since the purpose of this thread is forum improvement, I believe.

You have to make clear to the new members somehow, whether this is STRICTLY an enthousiast forum, or if this forum is open to everybody who owns a Yaris and just wants to be part of an online community.

I feel, sometimes, that some of the "old" members may resent the presence of the "average user" who don't know very much about the technical end.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

hahaha, I actually forgot about the "this is an old thread, don't bump it up" thing. I agree with you on that. I see it on Fit Freak as well. But yes, if someone doesn't want to answer the questions of the new folks, just don't answer. I, or someone else who would not mind, will answer (if we can, lol).


As for the political, religious, etc threads, I feel that if it can be a civil discussion, as I have asked for opinions about religious stuff, then the thread can stay open, as my threads have. However, once it gets out of hand, then it can be closed. This is why we have an off-topic section of the forum. In all honesty, just talking about the Yaris may get dull without any other things talked about. As for the really "sensitive" topics, there should be a subcategory in the off-topic section. FF has one (I never look at it tho), it's called "The Wastelands". In it's description, it states that anything goes and is not moderated, so if you have a weak stomach, stay out. I can see some ups and downs of having something similar to that here.

[AdeJong 03]

have either of the owners been personally contacted? not pm'd but actually emailed

if they went through the trouble to make a forum i imagine they check their email pretty regularly. why dont they assign limited admin rights to a veteran? ive seen limited admin rights before its not a new concept

[eTiMaGo]

have either of the owners been personally contacted? not pm'd but actually emailed

if they went through the trouble to make a forum i imagine they check their email pretty regularly. why dont they assign limited admin rights to a veteran? ive seen limited admin rights before its not a new concept

They have been PM'ed and emailed countless times by both myself and other members :iono:

[1NZYaris1]

I still love you Pavel. :smile:

:redface: NOW Thats scary :cool:

:bellyroll:

[Malaya1221]

the owners seem not to care as much as some members for this site...perhaps we should start a new member owned yaris web site that would provide more flexibility for the mods/admins and members!

[KCALB SIRAY]

But, none of this can happen without the involvement of our founders, they hold the keys, literally. And no amount of pleading or reasoning seems to have an effect, so we're stuck. :iono:

who :rolleyes: :thumbdown: :respekt:

[ChinoCharles]

the owners seem not to care as much as some members for this site...perhaps we should start a new member owned yaris web site that would provide more flexibility for the mods/admins and members!

-whistle whistle whistle VVVVVVVVVV

[balmung_chris]

WIKI FTW

[jekqmb]

the owners seem not to care as much as some members for this site...perhaps we should start a new member owned yaris web site that would provide more flexibility for the mods/admins and members!
Ummm ill be working on this very shortly when i get some time, but its going to be a Micro-Tuner forum for Fits, Aveos, Smarts, Yaris, Versa etc...... I already own a local Ecotec Forum for st.louis that is pretty big.
I love YW already....This place is way better then Cobaltss.net and Redlineforums.com
Everyone is nice here and very helpful.

[toad]

my .02(if anybody cares). i've been on here a couple years now and bought my second yaris partially because i discovered what a valuable resource this was after buying my first! as stated before, this forum is pretty tame compared to others i've encountered and that's why i still visit. i hear the horror stories from my friends on hondatech, etc. that make me appreciate this site so much! i would like to thank the mods we do have for keeping order(and still letting us have 'some' fun :smile: ). yeah, maybe we could use more for the spam, but i really don't notice all that much - and that's a testament to the hard work they do(IMHO)!

rep points are silly because(as again already stated) most of us 'regulars' already know who is full of knowledge and who is full of....it. heck, get rid of post counts for that matter. i actually like the 'off topic' area because sometimes you need a break from 'will it rub?' or 'know your oil' threads. it's sad to see valuable members leave, but that is life and sometimes people need a change of scenery. things get slow every now and then too, but there's exciting stuff around the corner also(see garms engine build, intake manifold updates, or just the extremes folks are going to mod our wonderful, little cars!

[Kaotic Lazagna]

hahaha. Yeah, although I find that some members are hostile when it comes to new folks asking questions, I have heard that Honda forums (excluding FF) is pretty bad. Heck, even FF gets mad at their members when they act like some other Honda forums. hahaha.

[AlexNet0]

-whistle whistle whistle VVVVVVVVVV


:thumbup:

[advocate]

As someone who is almost completely car illiterate, a wiki would be great to save me the embarrassment of asking things like "what does LSD stand for?" Rather than find out the hard way after 4 days of seeing the term used so many times that someone finally posted the un-acronym version.

This may not be the best example of a simple question easily answered from a wiki but it is 2AM and I have work soon so I'm pretty tired =) But my point remains! A wiki would be great to reference things like possible tire size / rim sizes that fit with the yaris as well as speaker sizes that work and stuff like that that will never change.

Overall my YW experience has been an amazing learning and eye-opening experience into the car world but there's definitely room for improvement.

[cali yaris]

Ummm ill be working on this very shortly when i get some time, but its going to be a Micro-Tuner forum for Fits, Aveos, Smarts, Yaris, Versa etc......

already exists :wink:

[Kaotic Lazagna]

^ hahahahah, may be our signatures will be reminders.

[Malaya1221]

i'm too slow chino but thanks! :biggrin:

[tk-421]

You were right on having mods from different time zones. That would help with the spam thing.

See? I knew you weren't completely opposed to my points above. Can mods change their poll answers? :wink:

A captcha for signup would also probably eliminate 90% of our spam.

Thomas should have had admin status from the get-go.Agreed on both counts. :thumbsup:

As far as how this forum treats new members, I wholeheartedly disagree and I've grown a little disenchanted from all of the negativity regarding how people are treated on this board. This is the most docile, kind car forum I've ever seen, yet there seems to be some level of striving for a forumtopia among a small contingent of our members. I just don't get it. I really don't. I'm an active member of three car forums and visit another 2 or 3 and I can honestly say this one is a puppy in a lion's cage. Try as you may, you'll never legislate perfection, and to try to do so is overly tiring.Well, some of us may well be overreacting in this respect. But you have to agree that negative members/topics/replies have become much more commonplace as of late. I can take a bit of this negative vibe. But I also think we should have some contingency steps at the ready if this problem gets out of hand in the future.

I always meet YW improvement threads with a good dose of meh.Oh, I've kinda noticed my friend... :biggrin:
Still, I do appreciate you taking the time to respond.

And about the wiki... it would serve the forum no proper purpose to set a wiki up because referring people to an off-the-forum wiki detracts from the search engine rankings of the pages of the forum itself. If I don't know these forums exist and I Google something and land on a wiki, theres a good chance I'll never find them. That is all bad.

Actually this can be easily solved by providing a link to the relevant YW forum thread inside the wiki article. SEO would actually be strengthened, since you have a link to a relevant (though not the same) topic. For a good example of this, check out mp3car.com. They have all sorts of stuff (wikis, forums, blog, store, etc) and they make it all look like just one big site. Google rankings are extremely high for them too.

i refrained from voting since, its kind of a waste of time , no disrespect to you TK, but if i remember correctly in the last 6 months we had at least 5 other Poll threads with improvement ideas and it did nothing, we still get spammed, people still bitch at each other and might as well take off the search and FAQ section as no one is using them.

Actually, I think you would've wasted less time by just voting, but I may be wrong. :biggrin:
Thanks for your input nonetheless, Pavel. I really appreciate it.

I personally believe a wiki section will improve the ability of new members (and a good "finite" collaboration area for seasoned members) to find and improve/build/revise upon proven concepts, homemade mods, etc. I personally hate sorting through (as others have said) 5 pages of bullshit to pick out the 10 helpful posts to get something done.

Thanks for your input, Alex! :thumbsup:

I do, however, believe that this also should be moderated by select members, perhaps a "post and get approval by poll" before being added type system, that way it wont be clogged by useless posts, being the point for such a wiki in the first place.
To address the issue about not being directly linked to the forum, templates can be edited, links and graphics can be added, it can be made very clear that that piece (wiki) is only a very small part of a much larger community effort.I completely agree with the above. There are many ways to have wikis and forums co-exist without deterring from each other's importance.

TK-421 (hehehe, by the way, funny name) you wrote a really nice letter. I don't know about the rep level either but :thumbsup: for the initiative, and the letter itself. Well done! :headbang:

Thank you, mater! Took me a little while to get everything out without it sounding offensive. I'm glad it came out OK. :thumbsup:

my .02(if anybody cares). i've been on here a couple years now and bought my second yaris partially because i discovered what a valuable resource this was after buying my first!

The above should serve as a testament of how YW has truly served as a great resource for lots of ppl around the world.

rep points are silly because(as again already stated) most of us 'regulars' already know who is full of knowledge and who is full of....it. heck, get rid of post counts for that matter.

If it were up to me, I'd place the post counts inside each member's profile area (where one leaves personal messages and stuff), and I would certainly remove them from their usual place.

As far as the "rep points" idea, I am not completely married to it. Please post some ideas on the subject if you have them!

As someone who is almost completely car illiterate, a wiki would be great to save me the embarrassment of asking things like "what does LSD stand for?" Rather than find out the hard way after 4 days of seeing the term used so many times that someone finally posted the un-acronym version.

Thanks for your comments, advocate!

[jclo3313]

All I can say is that I have made some new, and might I add good friends on this forum. That being said we are in need of help and I would gladly donate any of my circuits or gears if it would help.(If you catch my meaning) I miss YW of days gone by. I'd love to see it brought back to it former glory. This forum weighed heavily in me even buying my YARiSin the first place. I know that I have not been as active as I once was in part do to real life holding me back, but also due to some of the concern mentioned in this thread. I'm rambling but I'm back for good (I never really left) and I will do what I can to help.
:thumbsup:

[aeipee13]

I don't post often do to reasons TK-421 has voiced. I try to post valuable information as much as possible and have been flamed by people with 1236987346987 posts because they use the forums for discussions that can be handle via IM or PM.

Why not start a new forum. I know that's a tall order with all the info that has been accumulated on here but it seems like the only solution at this point. Look, VitzBoy and YarisBueller have not even responded publicly. If new forum is started with new Admin everything from banners working (tire rack discount comes to mind) and a wiki can be built up by people that care.

I was on this forum for almost year before I got my yaris. This forum was a big reason why I got a Yaris. Everything I have purchased to upgrade or repair my yaris was found on Yarisworld.

Maybe I could earn that third star on a new forum that rates by content and not post count. I'm not voting either because I don't think admin gives a shit.

[ChinoCharles]

http://microimageonline.com/forums

Involved admins, nice people, structured moderation and rules, no post counts, very inclusive... we've learned the lessons. Come on over.

[PETERPOOP]

Need more mods, and mods that should act like mods.

[cali yaris]

The Mods do a great job here with the tools they have to work with. :thumbsup:
I just think they deserve more tools if they have to manage the forums.

[JumpmanYaris]

What da hell?!?!? what did i miss?:tongue: