Big 3 Upgrade: Planning Stage (Input Encouraged)

[The Architect]

I have big plans in the works for my electrical system and the big 3 is one of them and I want to do it right and well the first time so I'll take any and all worthwhile educated input. If you have your own pictures etc please feel free.

1/0 Gauge will be used.

----Alternator to Battery Positive
----Battery Negative to Chassis
----Battery Negative to Engine

I took a few nice images of the engine bay in multiple spots so you may mark and re-upload them for reference if you have suggestions for mounting locations etc.

And one direct question I have is about the metal tab/group coming off the + terminal of the battery (shown below). I want to have two tri-1/0 gauge battery terminals in the end, one on each post. Is there a way to eliminate that ugly group and incorporate it into the new battery terminal?

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Onto the engine bay pictures.....ITS DIRTY...i know

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[1NZYaris1]

I did something similar a couple of months back ,
put a Bigger earth too Chassis
and an earth on the Alternator Bracket
results according to the scanguage where an instant inprovement in chargeing from 14.0 to.1 too 14.2 -.3 depending on rev's
and that is with the NST10% under drive pulley :thumbsup:

[talnlnky]

so some tips...

1: battery connector pick up something like this... http://stingerelectronics.com/productDetails.aspx?delineate=113&CategoryID=-1&ParentID=-1
if you look around you should be able to find one with the right amount of inputs that you need.

2:get your hands on a multimeter. set it to find resistance (amount of ohms... the horse shoe thing). Put one of the probes on the battery terminal, the other on various chassis points... take a ohm reading at each chassis point, and the point that has the lowest ohm rating is the one you want to go with. I believe you want to put the bat prob on the positive terminal, but I might be wrong.

3: don't replace any of the stock wires... just add the 1/0awg in addition to the stock... its a lot less work that way, and will actually be better, and in the future, if you sell the car it'll be easier to take you spendy 1/0awg out and use in your next car.

[talnlnky]

I did something similar a couple of months back ,
put a Bigger earth too Chassis
and an earth on the Alternator Bracket
results according to the scanguage where an instant inprovement in chargeing from 14.0 to.1 too 14.2 -.3 depending on rev's
and that is with the NST10% under drive pulley :thumbsup:

Sqcomp swears he gains 2mpg when he did his upgrade.... i have a hard time believing that, but if the stock ground is completely horrible, its possible.

[The Architect]

the "Earth" concept is one I've heard very little of, When he mentioned it I assumed it merely meant as ground. If I'm wrong feel free to elaborate.

Knu konceptz has some nice triple 1/0 terminals ill be picking up along with a few runs of 1/0

[Tamago]

in non-us countries, EARTH is ground.

[The Architect]

ahhh i see, sorry for my ignorance lol

[sqcomp]

I was at a mid 40's for MPG...after that big three...it went up to upper 42 to mid 43's.

I had NO changes in driving.

I had a post that showed what I did...lemme find the link

[sqcomp]

Okay...after forgetting about this post for a few days...I KNOW I posted my little link somewhere on the big 3. It is GONE...

The big 3 cost me $13 to do. I found some old parts that the shop had "scrapped" and some old Lightning Audio compression fittings that were bought at pennies on the dollar when they bought the shop...

So, thank the Lord for Photobucket:

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/IMAGE_201.jpg

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[sqcomp]

...and yes, I will re-do the engine compartment grounds after I get home from Iraq. I need to make ready for IASCA...

Every little improvement will help. That includes techflexing and putting heat shrink around the terminations of the grounds. They look amateur now. I already purchased a nice little billet aluminum battery clamp thingy from Micro Image. I'm thinking some billet brass connectors for some kinetik batteries soon...

I can do much better than these grounds I have on there now, show-wise at least.

As was mentioned I did NOT remove stock grounds, I only added. Besides, the power flows on the path of least resistance.

[The Architect]

the alt ground and chassis ground were good representations but I couldnt make out where the engine ground was, any chance of better pics or something for clarification?

[sqcomp]

by the battery and on the other side off the alternator bracket. The engine ground was on the underside of the car looking up. I can't get you new pictures just at this moment. I'm sort of stuck in Iraq. :)

[The Architect]

wouldn't it be best to run anything you want to ground back to the - battery post? or would difference be negligible.

[Tamago]

Besides, the power flows on the path of least resistance.

power flows everywhere. it doesn't simply find the path of least resistance and not flow through higher-resistance conduits.

[talnlnky]

power flows everywhere. it doesn't simply find the path of least resistance and not flow through higher-resistance conduits.

that's begging for a highly semantic debate.

[sqcomp]

indeed...

How about this:

MORE current will flow through the path of least resistance. The amount of flow seems to me to be oppositely dependant to said path's resistance.

The amplitude or magnitude of the current flow in a path relies on the path's voltage and impedance. The lower the impedance (resistance) the greater the current...with a constant voltage. On the other hand the higher the impedance (resistance) the lower the current.

Thoughts?

[talnlnky]

indeed...

How about this:

MORE current will flow through the path of least resistance. The amount of flow seems to me to be oppositely dependant to said path's resistance.

The amplitude or magnitude of the current flow in a path relies on the path's voltage and impedance. The lower the impedance (resistance) the greater the current...with a constant voltage. On the other hand the higher the impedance (resistance) the lower the current.

Thoughts?
I think no more needs to be said unless it is said in a different thread...and i'm not even a huge fan of that either since it is so incredibly semantic already.

[The Architect]

I just received my shipment from Knu, this 1/0 cable is insane, it bends all over and has 5145 strands etc etc etc. Im off to home depot for random stuff Ill need to knock out the big 3.

Lastly, anyone know where the post is on the Alternator for the Alt to Batt Positive?

[Slick]

Look at the last pic of first post, sqcomp took a picture of it i believe lol. It has a greay weather guard over it. Its above where the plug is.

[The Architect]

Look at the last pic of first post, sqcomp took a picture of it i believe lol. It has a grey weather guard over it. Its above where the plug is.

yea i found it at home depot when i was pokin around....its really really on there.

[talnlnky]

congrats.... you are doing what 100% of people with aftermarket electronics should be doing to their cars. It is the electronic equivalent to using 20% off coupons at stores to save money so you can get more stuff.

[The Architect]

not sure i follow the metaphor but ill assume its good...i just finished and im a bit tired. pics and an HD vid to come.

off for a test ride.

[The Architect]

Here are finished pics etc.

During the install something touched something and a loud boom/spark occured....

During the test ride with no music the cap showed a voltage of a mere 13.61 steady on the highway at 75MPH where it would normally be 13.99-14.17

On the way back from the test ride on 40mph roads the voltage started increasing slowly to 13.68-13.74 so somethings happening in regards to voltage returning to at least normal.

I currently have the yellow top charging even though it is already supposedly well charged.

anyways without further a due, pics.

feel free to suggest or otherwise. and I couldnt find any 1/0 shrink tube.


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[talnlnky]

don't know exactly what's going on... I wonder if your cap is related to this wierd issue.... I wonder if you need to discharge and then recharge it. I dunno... I also wonder if you could've somehow done damage to the alt when you dropped that cable... i dunno.... hard to say.

[Slick]

A tad sloppy :P. Looks good man. Did you by any chance check your ground connection with a meter? Just asking out of curiosity, not because I think its wrong lol

[The Architect]

I dont ahve a test light to gischarge the cap effectively, are there any other handy ways?

yea that ground was the best although not THE best. but it is what it is which is good enough.

i overcompensated on wire lengths for each run since 1/0 KNUFLEKS is not cheap. I also wish there were more places to tie to.

[talnlnky]

I dont ahve a test light to gischarge the cap effectively, are there any other handy ways?


hehe... hook it directly up to a sub.... You'd get POP... for about 1/100th of a second as the sub either pushes out, or sucks in.. and then holds it until the cap is drained.... hehe...

OK>... DON'T REALLY DO IT... DC looks wierd on speakers tho..... quick way to kill them tho. (don't think 12-14v would be high enough voltage to actually damage a sub... I'm way too lazy to do the math)

[The Architect]

alrighty then lol

[The Architect]

so uh I tried taking off the alt to batt run of 1/0 to see how that would effect my voltage issue.

At start up before the big 3 upgrade and before the "big spark" accident i guess you could call it, my card would jump to 14.08 - 14.17 and stabilize around 13.84 - 13.99

Now after the spark incident with the run of 1/0 for alt to batt itll jump to 13.55 - 13.61 and sit right around there.

And when I removed that run of 1/0 and turned my car on it sat at 12.30! wth so I quickly reattached that run of 1/0 and its back to 13.5/6ish

[The Architect]

alright well I got the HO Alternator from DC Power Engineering and it does not fit at all like they said so very surely it would. It has already been returned to them and I am awaiting a refund.

DONT USE DC POWER

[talnlnky]

lame....thanks for the info tho.

[sqcomp]

look at powerbastards...

I have to wait until April for mine. The owner seems to communicate well and does offer that 1 year no questions asked warranty.

[The Architect]

right now im working with iraggi, he seems a little more down to earth and claims to use OEM casings for the fit.

we'll see.

[sqcomp]

I'm interested to know. I'll be looking at your experience. I'll pick one up asap after I get back home in the spring.

[POORSHA]

I ran pos and neg from altenator under engine cover to battery

[The Architect]

awesome idea....seriously

im gonna have to redo a few wires soon.

I just payed for iraggi for a 300amp alt with a 1 5/8" billet aluminum pulley with a .5" shorter serpentine belt.

guess we'll see how this one goes.

[talnlnky]

awesome idea....seriously

im gonna have to redo a few wires soon.

I just payed for iraggi for a 300amp alt with a 1 5/8" billet aluminum pulley with a .5" shorter serpentine belt.

guess we'll see how this one goes.
A buddy of mine ran a 15v 280amp iraggi alt back around 03/04 in a honda civic. QUALITY PRODUCT!... he ran his amps at .7ohms (over 3000watts worth in power) and his electrical never dropped below 14v.

I'd recommend him in a heartbeat.

As for the wire under the engine cover... I'd personally loom that just to be safe.

[The Architect]

im going to voltrex all my cables once i get some.

how hot does it get under that engine cover?

[The Architect]

just got the stock 80 Amp backup alternator i ordered from lowmileageparts.com

Ill be using this as a comparison the the HO alt i get from iraggi.

[Slick]

I'm eagerly awaiting the result from the iraggi :) Lets hope it works. Im glad you have the balls and the cash to experiment for the greater good :)

A quick question though, what was the original game plan for the DC alt concerning the electronics. If it would have fit, was it going to be a plug n play? thanks

[The Architect]

well 90% of the PnP part was the fitment and it was off so that was a massive fail. Other than that it looked as if the ports and connection were appropriate.

Dom Iraggi has probably the best customer service so far, he's very responsive and reassuring seeing as how I told him my entire DC story along with my concerns and worries about fitment and all the like.

The alt ill be getting will be .5" larger in most directions so as to be able to make 300amp of it but the mounting points will be the same he said.

From the stock casing he could only make an alt to produce around 150-180amps which for a lot of owners would be a massive help but I chose to go all out so Im just hoping itll fit.

Ill be doing a side by side comparison with an OEM alt to see if itll work just by eyeballing and measuring it.

[Slick]

I checked his Ebay page, I didnt see a 300A for the Yaris. He does make it though, its just not listed?? And if you dont mind me asking, how much did you throw down for 300A?

[The Architect]

its probably not listed bc he cant make it "stock" per say bc its not the exact yaris case.

the ones you see on his page are most likely (99%) the ones that he builds from factory OE casings.

the one i ordered that i hope and should fit was 499 then i got the special 1 5/8" billet aluminum pulley for 45 and the shorter serpentine belt for 15

[Slick]

For 300A thats not a bad deal at all. Well, im officially excited :D I hope all works out. Any estimate on how much power will be available? Like, would it support a 10KW system do you think?

[The Architect]

10KW is a litttttle bit rough.

figure the car will use 25amps for typical car stuff so im working with maybe 270 amps

270 Amps x 14 Volts = 3780 usable watts (assuming your yaris sustains 14v typically)

Whats more important is the idling, I should get around 140-150 amps at idle but we'll see. Im the worst skeptic

[Slick]

well then thats just perfect for my two 900 RMS subs :D I cant wait to blow em and then upgrade to nightshades :)

[The Architect]

there goes the rear of your yaris.

[goku87]

and what amp are you planning on using to power your nightshades?

[Slick]

I'm not totally familiar with the capabilities of the NS. They are 1500 RMS a piece. I've read, heard, and seen great things about the AP 30001d. But again idk. If it's too much I'll go to one NS and a ap 1500. Which would make sense bc the 3000 is just 2 strapped 1500

[talnlnky]

10KW is a litttttle bit rough.

figure the car will use 25amps for typical car stuff so im working with maybe 270 amps

270 Amps x 14 Volts = 3780 usable watts (assuming your yaris sustains 14v typically)

Whats more important is the idling, I should get around 140-150 amps at idle but we'll see. Im the worst skeptic

if you're a skeptic... then change your equation.. 270*13 = 3510

when you have a bass hit, it's not uncommon for your voltage to sag 1volt, also... that alt will charge your system quickly... depending on how he makes the voltage regulator, the voltage may drop down quickly to the mid to high 13's.

[sqcomp]

I just received a whole pricing list from Iraggi:

"Direct bolt on. Same housing as factory.
160 $379
180 $399

Iraggi modded alt. We modify mounting ears to have the same mtg points as factory. Will bolt up almost exactly like factory. This is the one everyone has been doing.

200 $459
220 $479
240 $499
260 $519
280 $539
300 $559"

...Personally, I might look at that 180 Ampere stock housing unit. I am not going to jump for a bigger housing until I see someone that has had success with one that they've purchased. If I see that, I'd probably order the 240 Ampere version for my uses.

With all that being said, Arch...you're going to be posting pictures on the piece and the install correct?

[The Architect]

i wont be doing the install seeing as how I'm not that confident, Id rather let someone certified and so forth have at it.

I will however post pics of the HO alt and the stock alt side by side

[talnlnky]

prices for HO alts is one of the great benefits of going with a high efficiency install with tiny speakers..... less power = exponentially less money spent.

If I had the money... oh yeah... i'd go for the 160amp in an instant... I LOVED my 160amp alt I had made for my mazda (not iraggi)... thing was great for jump starting cars & trucks.

[The Architect]

just got off the phone with iraggi.

the larger case alt should (99%) fit fine and it also looks like doing the alt swap myself will be easy enough although im sure im going to have to devote a day to it.

if you go the 1 5/8" pulley route for higher amps at idle you will probably have to get a special belt for it like I am.

every possible angle has been looked over since I've been scarred by DC power and their absolutely horrible customer service etc etc.

it should ship tomorrow ready to go.

[The Architect]

few teaser pics.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/IMG_0795-1.jpg

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[Slick]

AHHHH SKEEET SKEET :)

[goku87]

AHHHH SKEEET SKEET :)

plz dont. might cause slippage on the pully.

[The Architect]

on a lighter note i think my amp stopped working along with the cap that ill be ditching anyways

[sqcomp]

We're looking at the stock vs the Iraggi alternator?

[The Architect]

yea

[goku87]

stick it in already!!!

[The Architect]

those pics arent ones i took, those were sent from iraggi to me to show comparison.

it was suppose to ship today but i didnt get an email saying that so idk.

[goku87]

UGH!!!

The suspense = annoying lol

[sqcomp]

I'm very interested to see actual fitment and this issues (if any) with that fitment. Which rating of alternator did you get again?

[The Architect]

300A, The mounting points will be the same (supposedly) but the actual casing will be .5" larger (1/4" each side) in diameter in some areas.

With eyeballing and minor measuring I did it should fit okay.

[The Architect]

" All finished last nite. Shipping out this afternoon.
If this one doesnt work for some reason we will figure out what needs to be done so it does work. Whether it be a different housing or making some mods to existing one.

Thanks, It has been a pleasure.

Dom "





sometime next week we'll see

[sqcomp]

looks like good customer support...

The interest is increasing on my side. I could sure use a 240 Ampere alternator for my setup. Well...I'm subscribed to this one, let's see what happens.

[Slick]

Yes, the excitement is killing me. Oh the potential. (goes into wet dream)...

[The Architect]

customer support is amazing with this guy.

After reading the yaris repair manual that's on yw around here somewhere I'm pretty confident I can do the swap myself and save a load of money. It shows for the most part how to remove the alt and the belt.

[sqcomp]

Yeah, I have that part downloaded, printed and am queing it to do the replacement at the shop after I see how your experience turns out.

...No pressure...

[talnlnky]

yeah.... toyota put the alt in a NICE place..... my mazda hid it below the engine... and without a shop style jack/lift it would've been near impossible to get out without removing the engine.

[The Architect]

just got the tracking and he sent it 2 day air which is awesome.

on the other hand getting my money back from DC Power is turning out to be a huge pain in the ass.

They got the alt back a week ago and the owner (robbie) just seems to never be able to talk or call me back or he happens to be out doing everything but handling business.

the other only guy (dave) that works there who I actually got a hold of today has a slight attitude when it comes to my order because apparently they think they can do no wrong and the Toyota Diagnostic Tech must have been stupid or something.

Dave said "yea youre the one who the toyota tech wouldnt install the alternator" when its more like he couldnt because it was just plain wrong.

So now Im waiting til monday to hear back from robbie which is a joke.....seriously fk these guys

[sqcomp]

Come on man! Get this already! :)

[The Architect]

i figure itll get it tuesday or wednesday and Ill install it saturday which is the only time i can do anything.

It's freezing up here in CT right now so ill be traveling to a place in Long island where theres a small garage ill heat that ill be using.

[The Architect]

here come the pics, I received it today. Also included is my super duper volt meter from hong kong.




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[Slick]

OOOOHHHH, I feel all tingly on the inside :) Good luck with the install man

[sqcomp]

Well...the dimensions are a little different. I'm wondering how the fit is going to go. Did Iraggi put an overdrive pulley on that?

Saturday is when this happens? Well my friend...I can say that you have someone 7000 miles away that is pulling for this to be a smooth install and great operation. ...If it is for you, I'll go ahead and throw down the coin for a slightly smaller Ampere one from him as well.

You have all of his contact information?

[The Architect]

by all small tests and eyeballing and measuring it should fit.

It is in fact an overdrive pulley. The usual size they send is 2" as opposed to this 1 5/8"

DC power is talking so much sh*t about iraggi and how hes a crook and theres thousands of things on google about him etc etc.

Then got to saying actual bad things about the alt and how itll never do 300amps and also how it'll shred the belt because of whatever and it wont be able to drive the alternator physically...

Idk i guess alternator makers are at each others throat but the customer service at DC sucks complete ass. Robbie said he tried calling em a few times but i got no missed calls and my phone is glued to my hand.

I had to call him at his cell to get a hold of him and i bet he didnt expect that.

Lastly, Robbie of DC said he had a rep that has a yaris (oh yea now hes got a yaris...k) and he's going to make a perfect fit alt etc etc and take pics of it working etc...

If that happens...fine ill take it and ill let someone of yw have the perfect fit HO alt.

[sqcomp]

Ummm...

It won't be me. I'm not playing around with DC. It seems they've given you a bad time, so they don't get my business.

Have you opened up the hood yet to see how the new alty will fit?

[The Architect]

holding it in the engine bay proves to be no good seeing as how that proved to be useless when it came to the DC alt although by all measurements and intensive engine bay eyeballing ti looks good, we shall see.

[drew113087]

...and yes, I will re-do the engine compartment grounds after I get home from Iraq. I need to make ready for IASCA...

Every little improvement will help. That includes techflexing and putting heat shrink around the terminations of the grounds. They look amateur now. I already purchased a nice little billet aluminum battery clamp thingy from Micro Image. I'm thinking some billet brass connectors for some kinetik batteries soon...

I can do much better than these grounds I have on there now, show-wise at least.

As was mentioned I did NOT remove stock grounds, I only added. Besides, the power flows on the path of least resistance.

I Feel you man just came back from a mission to VBC earlier today (ps breakfast is waybetter over there) Adding a few grounding cables to boost the mpg... I just might do that too when i get back to the states.

[sqcomp]

While we're waiting for install pictures...

Tell me more Drew. You in the dust bowl too? What unit are you with? Which DFAC did you go to?

I actually had an increase of right around 2 mpg on my Yaris with a $13 big three upgrade. Okay, $13 is the insider price but still, all I spent was $13 on the compression fittings for my little ride. I'll be replacing the engine compartment 4 gauge runds with 1/0 gauge runs techflexed, that have the nice compression fittings as well. I may do this on R&R this December when I'm finishing up the deadening on my car. Hopefully I'll have the time to drop the headliner when I'm finishing the back doors, back deck, and the trunk. I've already put 3 bulk packs into the floorpan, back seat, and the front doors. I'll probably be looking at another three bulk packs for the rest. This car is already "quieter than an AMG Merc" according to the shop owner. Yeah!

[The Architect]

heres how it went

i installed the HO alt and it fit 99% right which will be resolved in the future but the alt fits plenty well to work for everyday use. This is the best news of all

here are the problems that occurred

-- The car threw a P/S light
-- It would not shift out of park
-- The HVAC console would not work or light up
-- It was charging at 12.2ish volts

at first impression it sucked.

once i removed the alt and inspected i saw that one of the four wires of the black connector that i had to extend had come loose (the green one).

I reattached the green wires and retested it all only to have the same problems.

I was talking to iraggi through the process here and there.

I then put the backup stock alt i ordered (not my stock one) on and got it all together then i still had the same problems.

I should at this point say that in my idiocy i didnt during any of these install attempts attach the factory 8gauge or so alt to batt wire and just used my run of 0/1 cable.

When i put in the backup stock alt i reconnected the oem alt to batt wire (never tried this alt configuration without it) and i had also fully disconnected the battery from the vehicle for probably 25 minutes so as to clear any codes and reset the ecu.

when i came back and put everything back together and tested it it all worked 100% no problems.

So this just leads me to believe that if i now swap the HO alt for this alt it SHOULD work just fine so long as all wires stay fully connected and nothing comes loose.

Idk when ill be trying the swap it again seeing as how its hard to get a day of free time but ill try to shove it in somewhere.

anyways....at least for now im charging at 14.2volts again.

[sqcomp]

hmmm...

I'm wondering if the stock body 180 Ampere model is the way to go then...

[The Architect]

it was a learning experience for sure, in retrospect knowing what i know now i think it couldve been much easier.

the slightly larger case version fits...thats all there is to it. The only thing that has to be done is extending the black connector which is easy

im just going to swap it back in sometime in the near future and be 110% on every single move i make and if any of the same problems are still there then ok maybe the stock case is the way to go.

[Slick]

Hmmm, im only slightly less excited than I was before, but overall im super excited for the final product. :) Thanks again for being the G-pig. :)

[sqcomp]

Just so I don't become confused...

This Iraggi alternator does NOT work as you hoped?

[The Architect]

i can understand why youre confused, ill try to make the event as easy to understand as possible. it's not fair to say that it didnt work because well...just read on

heres how it occurred in steps.


1) I installed the iraggi alt and extended the black connector so it fit on the new alt.

2) I extended the connector and attached it to the alternator before installing because this is necessary.

3) I did not know it at the time but the green wire of the extended connector had come loose during the install and i believe this caused the p/s light and hvac loss.

4) I also did not reattach the OEM Alternator to Battery wiring because at the time i didnt think them to be of importance because I was using my own 01/ run. I forgot that the OEM wiring went into a junction box that attached to the batt....its important

5) The ECU was remembering the P/S code from the clipped green wire every time i tried a new test and i also continuously did not use OEM wiring.

6) I stopped trying with the HO alt and just wanted to see if the car would work fine with the stock backup OEM alt that i had ordered. I installed that OEM and the same problems that I had with the HO alt were happening with this alt.

7)I uninstalled the stock alt. because i was having the same problems and called iraggi and got tips.

8) At that time i could no longer afford to put anymore time into this project so i installed the backup OEM Alternator i ordered just in case (not my stock one) And i reattached the OEM wiring ALONG with my 0/1 run AND I fully disconnected the battery from the vehicle for 25 minutes and let the ECU reset.

9)Everything then worked perfectly..no codes and i was charging at 14.2


If this made sense to you then in theory the HO alt should work if i were to swap it out right now, this is what i think and i consulted iraggi about it all as well.

[sqcomp]

Okay, so you're going to re-install the Iraggi alty sometime soon?

I'll be watching closely, I can tell you that much.

[The Architect]

yea ill get it reinstalled as soon as ive got some time.

[Slick]

I have lots of time :) Want some of mine? Lol. At least the problem is theoretically solved. Good luck with the reinstall. I check this thread every 4 or 5 hours lol

[The Architect]

Got the alt put in yesterday finally. It works so far at least as well as the OEM.

I need to get a clamp meter and load test it. It charges at 13.8 - 14.2/3 like the stock alt which was expected

Had to extend the OEM Alt to Batt probably 8 inches and same goes for that black connector but no biggy.

Took me about 3 hours from start to finish.

heres a couple crappy phone pics until i use my camera later today.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/1101091628-00.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/1101091628-02.jpg

[Slick]

Hurray!!! She is a success :) :holds breath for load test: Looks like it fits perfectly. As good as stock? No rubbing issues anywhere? Just extend the wires and them good to go? Very nice man, very nice.

[talnlnky]

a very unscientific method of testing the new alt would be to put a sine wave cd in there.... play something like a 50hz tone at moderate volume (doesn't have to be full blast), and while you do that.... have a DMM set to voltage monitor the voltage drop...

on the stock alt... if you push more than 500rms you should start to see a decent voltage drop... on the new alt.. since it's about 4 times bigger... should take more like 1200-1500rms to see the same drop...

Keep in mind... the alt may take a half second to respond to the new load.


Clamp meter is scientific tho... I would love to own a clamp meter.
Clamp + DMM and you can tell how much power your alt puts out (in watts). Add and Oscope and you can tell how much power your amp puts out before clipping.

[The Architect]

yea im going to have to find someone to help me do the volt test because i dont have an internal volt meter yet, 2 are on the way.

And to slick, the install is really quite easy and the fitment was very good. Extend the OEM wire 10 inches to be safe and the black connector the same and youre good to go.

Before I was dropping about .3 volt when it was hitting pretty good, there was a nice rumble throughout the seat and headrest and the visors were flapping a little bit. it would go from 14.3-14.07 or 13.99 for example

There are no retail stores that have a Clamp that measures DC Amps so I have to resort to online shopping or find a shop



http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/P1030557copy.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/P1030558copy.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/P1030559copy.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/P1030560copy.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/P1030565copy.jpg

[The Architect]

i found a pretty decent clamp meter rated for 400A DC Current on the cheaps and will be ordering it tonight. Once i get it ill do full on test for this alt.

[awdblazer]

get a good quality clamp on, actually dont get cheap shit when it comes to meters, trust me i am a electrician and the better the meter you have the safer you are and cheap meters are exactly that cheap and not accurate

[The Architect]

the meter itself isnt cheap but the price i found was. i showed iraggi and he signed off on it and its rated for what i need etc etc. We'll see if this alt is all it needs to be

[awdblazer]

only two names i would ever touch, fluke and amp probe

[talnlnky]

only two names i would ever touch, fluke and amp probe

doesn't fluke rebadge a lot of its meters for other companies tho???

[The Architect]

both are pretty expensive and the flukes are really expensive, i just need to know that the alt is putting out at least 75% of what it says

[ricepower]

:w00t:

[The Architect]

just for a slight mini-update i threw a DMM on the amp while driving and while idle (at stop lights etc) and proceeded to play bass heavy rap music with lines around the 38-45hz range (ying yang twins etc)

While driving around 40-45mph the voltage was about 14.20-14.24 and would drop to about 14.12 and sometimes 14.08 without pretty damn loud bass as far as my amp and subs are concerned.

Before the HO alt although I did not take records the voltage would drop maybe 3-4 times as much at least in similar situations.

I do however have one thing to ask of a fellow yarisworlder, I would like someone to monitor the voltage at a complete idle stop that lasts for at least 20-30 seconds with no load. Preferably while driving around town and at a stop light or sign

The reason for this is the HO alt will hover around 13.13-13.30 (ill reconfirm) at dead stop idle and I want to contrast this to a real world situation with the stock alt.

just an overview of numbers for whoever wants to know with the HO alt.


Idle in Drive: 13.20 - 13.30
Idle in Park: 13.44 - 13.50
Idle in Neutral: Nearly same as in Park
Driving after warmed up: 14.17-14.23 +- .07 volts
Highway Driving: Same as above

[Slick]

At 65 mph my SGII says about 13.7 - 13.8, no extra load. Help any lol

I have a quick question. What would it hurt for me to get a 300 A alt and not have a system that can really use it? Anything?

[The Architect]

well for one i dont even know that my alt will do 300A, I personally dont think it can or will just because that would be an absolutely amazing feat.

Also I have no way of presenting a load of 300A or even 200...or 150 for that matter. My amp draws maybe 70A full tilt and my A/C & Lights draw maybe 30 tops. So I could at idle test for maybe 100A through my clamp meter (that im still waiting for).

With that hard of a load im EXPECTING no more of a drop in voltage than .30 volts at idle otherwise ill be mad.

Anyways...I need to come up with a way to test amperage while highway driving and I know im suppose to test it right at the alt but ill consider just clamping it at amp and having someone ride with me, we'll see how that works out.

What does your SG2 show for voltage at idles/stops?

[sqcomp]

I see you're getting some time on this alty.

What are your thoughts of the performance so far? Is it worth the money? Would you buy from Iraggi again?

[The Architect]

so far the only thoughts i have arent very scientific ones.

The voltage does seem to drop far less with far more bass which is a good sign but I'm hesitant to believe it could ever put out 300A but thats a personal biased thing.

i need to have a way to present a load of at least 250A to the alt while highway driving with a voltage drop of NO MORE than .5 volts to be content.

Who wants to loan me a 2500+ Watt amp?

[The Architect]

Also, Is the factory Alt to batt wiring a straight shot through the loom to the battery? If so Im going to just cut the connector off the stock wiring and crimp it back on to a new run of 4 gauge back to the OEM batt. loaction and call it a day.

[Slick]

Ok, so I watched my SGII today. In park, no load, it runs at 13.6 to 13.7 staying mostly in 13.7. In drive, holding break, it runs at 13.5 to 13.6, swapping between the two fairly fifty fifty. I applied my largest potential load, in Park, and it ran 13.3, dipping occasionally to 13.2 but only on really hard notes.

BTW, correction to my last post, between 65 & 70 the SGII shows almost a constant 14.0 volts. Occasionally dipping to 13.9 but only a few times. It also showed 14.1 a few times but not enough to be considered a constant charging voltage.

Hope this helps

[talnlnky]

this actually doesn't surprise me.... You now have a more stable voltage... though it is slightly lower (than the max voltage on the oem alt)... stable voltage is much better, you may feel bummed...due to the lower voltage... but you should be happy.... that alt will last much longer than the oem would've.

[The Architect]

well i just got my volt meter in, ill be installing it asap and monitoring voltage throughout all scenarios and reporting back in a day or so

[The Architect]

sigh...

well idk whats to be expected from a HO alt because Ive never owned one but here's how things are as of today after many observations, tests and metering.

If I put on a truly low deep and bass heavy song a crank it loud BUT still clear the voltage will plummit to 12.75-12.85 a.k. the battery

....that fkn sucks even if it is only for a split second I dont want to be tapping the battery.

I didnt think my little 1000rms amp would be able to make this "badass" alt surrender but i guess so.

I talked to iraggi and he thought maybe the belt was slipping for a second on the hits but i seriously doubt it...but he knows more so im going to pick up a brand new stock belt and swap it.

If that doesnt alleviate the problem (dont think it will) then idk what his solution will be.

Since the alt does seem to be performing better than stock maybe ill just have him give me a 180A stock casing alt instead and refund the difference.

I'll stay hopeful though.

Should a 300A alt at 80MPH be able to sustain consistent voltage during deep bass hits at high volumes?

I mean my amp has an 80amp internal fuse so that means it wont pull more than 80 or so amps...right? He says no and its pulling more than that for sure...


so idk, feel free to comment

[goku87]

Man that sucks. Here's the best way you can test it:

Take it to a local place that rebuilds alts. Some hole-in-the-wall place, because they usually test them for free. They have machines they stick them on and turn them and check the output. Some places can print out the test results and they look kinda like dyno sheets, except for alts. :thumbsup:

That way you can be like, "Okay, listen here, this shit don't work as advertised."

Ex:

[goku87]

doesn't fluke rebadge a lot of its meters for other companies tho???

like you wouldn't believe lol.

[The Architect]

from those graphs it seems some alts dont put out until wayyy up on the rpm line where its not even normal

[sqcomp]

Hmmm...

Very interesting.

Here's what I think I'll do. I'll buy a Powerbastards 220 Ampere unit. I'll get it with an overdrive pulley and we'll see what happens. We'll install it in the shop and do the tests there simply because we've got the equipment to test it as well as keep a charge if anything should happen.

We'll see if this company's claims of 1200 RPM full output to 220 amperes are even near to being close.

I'm bummed that this Iraggi alternator didn't work as advertised.

[goku87]

Yeah, this whole situation is a clusterfuck. Everyone claims they have the best HO alt, but none can deliver.

Has anyone considered doing a multi-alt setup? I know our engine bay is small, but I've seem some creative things before.

[sqcomp]

I'm seeing the same. Like Goku mentioned, if one of us put together a dual alternator setup, with one isolated for the use of the sound system...

[talnlnky]

I'm seeing the same. Like Goku mentioned, if one of us put together a dual alternator setup, with one isolated for the use of the sound system...

if somebody had the means to fabricate custom brackets that would probably be the best & cheapest way as you can often go to junkyards and find alts for under $20... I remember a few years back in Spokane,WA there was a junkyard that would sell you alts for $8... tho you had to remove it yourself.

The yaris/echo has been out long enough to have a few cars in the junkyard by now. Tho... if I was going to do custom bracket... I'd be tempted to just pull one from a truck that had like a 100-140amp alt.

one drawback to dual alts would be more load on the engine than a single alt, thus lower mpg's... prolly less than 1mpg difference tho.


EDIT:
Architect
I'm starting to wonder if there is something weird with your car... you dropped cable a while back and then said your voltage was funny after that.... Did you have your battery tested.... maybe you have a bad cell in your battery that is causing a wierd issue.... constantly trying to charge thus sucking amperage, thus lowering voltage... i dunno... be worth checking out tho.

[The Architect]

if somebody had the means to fabricate custom brackets that would probably be the best & cheapest way as you can often go to junkyards and find alts for under $20... I remember a few years back in Spokane,WA there was a junkyard that would sell you alts for $8... tho you had to remove it yourself.

The yaris/echo has been out long enough to have a few cars in the junkyard by now. Tho... if I was going to do custom bracket... I'd be tempted to just pull one from a truck that had like a 100-140amp alt.

one drawback to dual alts would be more load on the engine than a single alt, thus lower mpg's... prolly less than 1mpg difference tho.


EDIT: r
Architect
I'm starting to wonder if there is something weird with your car... you dropped cable a while back and then said your voltage was funny after that.... Did you have your battery tested.... maybe you have a bad cell in your battery that is causing a wierd issue.... constantly trying to charge thus sucking amperage, thus lowering voltage... i dunno... be worth checking out tho.

Yea when i did that I essentially grounded the stock alternator which mustve messed up some of the internals causing it to charge poorly.

My yellow top sits at 12.75 cold and the alt charges normally.

Ill just take my battery to autozone for a battery test but a hot test would be misleading so idk

[talnlnky]

Yea when i did that I essentially grounded the stock alternator which mustve messed up some of the internals causing it to charge poorly.

My yellow top sits at 12.75 cold and the alt charges normally.

Ill just take my battery to autozone for a battery test but a hot test would be misleading so idk

Hook it up with daul "Walmart specials" now... get two of the walmart everstart 1000CA bats.. they are like $70-80 a pop... run them in parallel... will have way more performance than any single car audio battery would have, and cost the same as a yellow top.

Had a buddy run three or four of those in his civic hatchback... think he fit them all in the spare tire well too. Maybe he had one up front.... long time ago... hard to remember for sure. He was running round 4kw's and a 0.7ohm load on 2ohm amps ... fun times.

[goku87]

Hook it up with daul "Walmart specials" now... get two of the walmart everstart 1000CA bats.. they are like $70-80 a pop... run them in parallel... will have way more performance than any single car audio battery would have, and cost the same as a yellow top.

Had a buddy run three or four of those in his civic hatchback... think he fit them all in the spare tire well too. Maybe he had one up front.... long time ago... hard to remember for sure. He was running round 4kw's and a 0.7ohm load on 2ohm amps ... fun times.

Three words:

Sulfuric acid fumes.

Not so fun times.

[The Architect]

Three words:

Sulfuric acid fumes.

Not so fun times.

idk whats going on with both yours and his statements haha, maybe its bc i read them when i was half unconscious

[talnlnky]

Three words:

Sulfuric acid fumes.

Not so fun times.

Three words

Vented battery box


if it's really a problem you just have to seal the batteries in a box, and then make a vent that goes outside so the fumes don't get in the cabin of the car. I question how much of an issue that really is anyway.

If the box is too much work... could try and find the cheapest sealed/non-venting batteries you can get.... do the Exide orbitals release gas? they aren't that expensive are they.

[The Architect]

so im starting to think theres something to this whole "belt slippage" thing.

on the way home from work i was only going maybe 40MPH and the multi/clamp meter was reading about 14 volts.

I then turned on lil johns "push that n***a push that h*e" for those that might like that sorta thing and then ramped it up to 48 on my HU which is pretty damn loud and the voltage was falling to maybe 13.7-13.8 which is fine. For just a second though it fell to the 12's so im being the optimist.

I just ordered a new dayco serp belt that "exceeds oe spec" and ill be giving that a shot and tightening the living hell out of the thing when i put it on.

[talnlnky]

belt slippage is a real issue...i've seen it before... When a big bass hit happens, large voltage dip causes the alt to engage and try to make a lot of power.... which means it puts a large load on the belt... if the belt is loose, even the slightest bit it may slip.

Saw this in a durango with six 15's and a 2200rms amp. Every time he cranked it we'd hear a squeal for a few seconds.... finally took a look at the belt and it needed tightening.

your alt can do what.... 280, 300 amps... that alt is very capable of putting a big load on that belt. I would think the belt would have to be even tighter than stock to ensure the belt didn't slip.

[The Architect]

belt slippage is a real issue...i've seen it before... When a big bass hit happens, large voltage dip causes the alt to engage and try to make a lot of power.... which means it puts a large load on the belt... if the belt is loose, even the slightest bit it may slip.

Saw this in a durango with six 15's and a 2200rms amp. Every time he cranked it we'd hear a squeal for a few seconds.... finally took a look at the belt and it needed tightening.

your alt can do what.... 280, 300 amps... that alt is very capable of putting a big load on that belt. I would think the belt would have to be even tighter than stock to ensure the belt didn't slip.

The only time i ever hear a belt squeal is when i first turn on the car, other than that i cant hear or notice it at all during hits or anything and ive been outside the car for them.

as soon as the new belt comes in ill allot some time to swap it and ill make sure to have someone very strong with so as to get a really fkn tight belt.

is over tightening something to worry about because im not sure what threshold to restrain to.

[talnlnky]

i really don't know if you can have a belt too tight....

for reference... i've never heard my belt squeal. I also only have a 150 watt amp in my car.... and have never ran my battery low. I want this stock battery to last me 5-6 years.... I'm a cheap bastage.

[The Architect]

well this morning when i started my car and started monitoring voltage a saw a drastic difference in behavior from my electrical system.

for one the voltage hung around 14.45-14.5 for about 3 minutes or so before calming down to 14.3-14.4 and then finally stayin at 14.35/6 which is....very nice and unexpected.

The voltage seems very stable also (with the occasional hiccup) even with loud music and at idle in Drive it stays around 13.6-13.8 and in P or N its around 13.9-14.1

I dont know what to attribute it to but im about to go redo as much of my engine wiring as i can for preventative maintenance before it gets dark.

[talnlnky]

well this morning when i started my car and started monitoring voltage a saw a drastic difference in behavior from my electrical system.

for one the voltage hung around 14.45-14.5 for about 3 minutes or so before calming down to 14.3-14.4 and then finally stayin at 14.35/6 which is....very nice and unexpected.

The voltage seems very stable also (with the occasional hiccup) even with loud music and at idle in Drive it stays around 13.6-13.8 and in P or N its around 13.9-14.1

I dont know what to attribute it to but im about to go redo as much of my engine wiring as i can for preventative maintenance before it gets dark.
hmmmm....

[The Architect]

i mean just last night i reattached my amps ground with a set screw super duper ring terminal from knu konceptz and drove it down into the frame pretty well but thats the only difference.


http://www.knukonceptz.com/assets/productImages/SSRT0.JPG

[goku87]

At work we call this FM...

F**&ing magic lol

[talnlnky]

if your checking voltage at the amp... then the new ground could've made a difference... but if you are checking it from a fuse box, or direct from the battery that wouldn't have made a measurable difference.

[The Architect]

if your checking voltage at the amp... then the new ground could've made a difference... but if you are checking it from a fuse box, or direct from the battery that wouldn't have made a measurable difference.

well ive done both, when driving ive got the probes to the DMM inserted directly into the amps 1/0 cable but for testing purposes i was at the engine bay with the dmm at the alt and batt so idk.

Im now redoing all the engine bay connections to be 100%

[The Architect]

some up to date engine bay pics with 95% finished electrical


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/P1030604.jpg


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/P1030605.jpg


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/P1030613.jpg


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/P1030606.jpg


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/P1030611.jpg


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/thenixonyouth/P1030612.jpg

[goku87]

Very snazzy wire rap. Where did you pick that stuff up from?

[The Architect]

my work, its just .5" flex guard or cable guard etc.

this place has some http://www.electriduct.com/Braided-Sleeving_c_148.html

[sqcomp]

Flexo PET...it's from Techflex. Great stuff. Partsexpress sells it as well. I'd love to see these pics that A has put up but this government computer blocks them...

I'll have to wait until tonight to look at them.

[NHYarisFan]

Hi all i did my big 3 this past fall just got my new camera so here we go!:clap:
http://dc247.4shared.com/img/RtW2fx7G/s3/100_0838.JPG
http://dc402.4shared.com/img/ap-7LM8y/s3/100_0839.JPG
http://dc233.4shared.com/img/dGrCzV0L/s3/100_0837.JPG
http://dc377.4shared.com/img/Uru0eSQW/s3/100_0836.JPG
http://dc353.4shared.com/img/Hb_MWwNB/s3/100_0835.JPG
http://dc435.4shared.com/img/rs7821mn/s3/100_0840.JPG
:headbang:

[sqcomp]

...thread rising from the grave!

Heck, I'll join in on the Big 3 fun:

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2101.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2556.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2557.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2558.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2559.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2560.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2561.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2562.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2563.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2564.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG2565.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG1291.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/CIMG1290.jpg

I'm trying to find one more pic...I think it's the engine to chassis ground...

[fnkngrv]

great pics and along with the MPG bump, which I totally believe because I know with my current draw (pardon the pun) I have lost MPGs, do you think that this affects power/torque band stability?

[NHYarisFan]

Nice and clean sqcomp! i need to change out my bolt on the alt ground its a bit rusty, dont forget the no-ox keeps it clean:thumbup:

[NHYarisFan]

sqcomp do you have a fuse from alt positive to battery positive? Good to have one there. Hate to see a short and fire under the hood

[sqcomp]

I'm looking at new battery terminals that will have mini ANL ports much like my distro block in the back. I'll be having the new terminals custom machined to fit my exact needs. These street wires terminals are nice and all but really a dime a dozen in my world.

My MPG got a bump of two when I first put the additional wire on. That changes with 150 lbs of stereo gear installed and all that fiberglass is the trunk. My last road trip netted me 42.735 MPG. Not bad for not being a hypermiler IMHO.

[NHYarisFan]

I'm looking at new battery terminals that will have mini ANL ports much like my distro block in the back. I'll be having the new terminals custom machined to fit my exact needs. These street wires terminals are nice and all but really a dime a dozen in my world.

IMHO.

ah nice, i'm still stock right now. Someday ill upgrade the terminals but its working for now. No dimming on my lights now. Love it!:headbang: