afc and egt?

[o89canucks]

One of the old gatway dsm guys was running an apexi afc with an egt gauge and leaning it out as much as he could while making sure he didn't melt his turbo off...anywho, moral of the story is he was hitting around 60-70mpg highway in his 2g eclipse. Was wondering if anyone had tried this out here looking at these mods from a gas mileage perspective as opposed to a performance perspective?

I'm thinking if the same thing could be pulled off here it might be possible to hit 80-100mpg doing about 55mph on the highway...

[talnlnky]

hmmm... very interesting... It'd be very fun to try... anybody have a few thousand to donate to me so I can experiment with this.

[Y@R15]

sounds good but what if the speed limit is 70? dont you get pulled for impeding traffic?

[o89canucks]

few thousand??? Wow, who are you buying parts from?

Apexi safc neo - approx 350$
autometer ultralite egt gauge with probe - approx 130$

self installed you would be talking around a 500$ investment total.

and the maximum speed limit is 70mph, minimum is usually 45mph.

[talnlnky]

few thousand??? Wow, who are you buying parts from?

Apexi safc neo - approx 350$
autometer ultralite egt gauge with probe - approx 130$

self installed you would be talking around a 500$ investment total.

and the maximum speed limit is 70mph, minimum is usually 45mph.

I don't have a turbo... I thought you were talking about doing this in conjunction with a turbo?

[ern-diz]

sounds good but what if the speed limit is 70? dont you get pulled for impeding traffic?

there has been much debate about that topic right there buddy, you don't even know LOL...

as for the topic of this thread, it'd be a nice twist to see someone get a turbo for the purpose of getting higher mpg vs. acceleration and mph lol...

[AlexNet0]

how do you plan on leaning out the fuel on a stock yaris?

[Tamago]

don't do it

[Tamago]

the reason the 2G eclipse guy made those numbers was because of the turbo.. you'll never achieve it on a yaris

[o89canucks]

the reason the 2G eclipse guy made those numbers was because of the turbo.. you'll never achieve it on a yaris

I don't see a difference on leaning out a turbo vs. na car, leaning is leaning wether you have a turbo or not.

[o89canucks]

how do you plan on leaning out the fuel on a stock yaris?

did you miss the part about the air-fuel controller?

[Tamago]

I don't see a difference on leaning out a turbo vs. na car, leaning is leaning wether you have a turbo or not.

the difference is that the DSM guy is probably leaning to 14:1. turbos make engines more efficient, volumetrically and thermally (at low boost)

stoich is 14.7:1. that's what the yaris ECU is going to try to achieve in closed loop. leaning the engine out further will simply overheat the exhaust manifold, as well as your pistons, valves, everything.

so you'll get better fuel mileage at the cost of engine longevity, which does more harm to the environment than leaving well enough alone.

[Penguin Garage]

how much adjustment can the AFC do on the yaris?

2%, 5%, 10%, 25% adjustment?

This is an expensive test to save $40 a tank, but I'd be interested to see it perform.

Airplane pilots do this constantly while at cruise to get optimum results.

[Tamago]

h
Airplane pilots do this constantly while at cruise to get optimum results.

airplane pilots have sub-zero air to induce and cool their intercoolers ;)

[Penguin Garage]

airplane pilots have sub-zero air to induce and cool their intercoolers ;)

and not alot of traffic, oh and auto pilot. :bellyroll:

kind of a bad example really. haha.

[Tamago]

stop and go air traffic FTL

[o89canucks]

the difference is that the DSM guy is probably leaning to 14:1. turbos make engines more efficient, volumetrically and thermally (at low boost)

stoich is 14.7:1. that's what the yaris ECU is going to try to achieve in closed loop. leaning the engine out further will simply overheat the exhaust manifold, as well as your pistons, valves, everything.

so you'll get better fuel mileage at the cost of engine longevity, which does more harm to the environment than leaving well enough alone.

Longetivity, yes, if you exceed safe temp ranges...which is what the egt gauge is for. Cast iron exhaust manifolds are made to withstand temperatures up to 1600F before doing major damage, I still wouldn't recommend running that hot for any extended period of time though. You still may get a decent gain by running egt temps 2-300 degrees over stock levels.

[Tamago]

and what car has a cast iron exhaust manifold?

aluminum pistons?

[o89canucks]

and what car has a cast iron exhaust manifold?

aluminum pistons?

My S60R has a cast iron manifold, haven't modded my pos yaris yet as it is my daily driver, so I haven't checked to see what is in it.

[Tamago]

My S60R has a cast iron manifold, haven't modded my pos yaris yet as it is my daily driver, so I haven't checked to see what is in it.

the manifold is tubular steel.

with fragile little aluminum pistons inside the engine



don't lean it out.

[o89canucks]

so if most pistons are aluminum, then why would the Yaris pistons be any different than any other "fragile" aluminum piston when it is leaned out. If that were the case the the 2g eclipse's "fragile" aluminum pstons shouldn't have held up, correct?

and with the exhaust manifold being tubular steel, it would fail -way- before the pistons ever did.

[Tamago]

so if most pistons are aluminum, then why would the Yaris pistons be any different than any other "fragile" aluminum piston when it is leaned out. If that were the case the the 2g eclipse's "fragile" aluminum pstons shouldn't have held up, correct?

and with the exhaust manifold being tubular steel, it would fail -way- before the pistons ever did.

have you ever seen a 1nzfe piston in person? 1nzfe connecting rod? no? i have. they're fragile, under-engineered.

this still does not account for the fact that a DSM is gonna get great gas mileage because of the turbo, and a 1nzfe is NOT going to gain fuel efficiency by leaning the engine out excessively.


do me a favor


go drive your yaris around at 19:1 AFR for the sake of the almighty fuel mileage and see how long your engine lasts :rolleyes:

[o89canucks]

again, I don't tear apart my pos yaris that I drive to work every day to make it a race car, so no. I don't know what the internals look like.

then again, I don't expect a yaris to be an autocross or drag racing machine.

[Tamago]

again, I don't tear apart my pos yaris that I drive to work every day to make it a race car, so no. I don't know what the internals look like.

then again, I don't expect a yaris to be an autocross or drag racing machine.

pot calling the kettle black, you want to lean out a high-compression N/A engine for the sake of fuel milege, because "some guy with a 1993 eclipse turbo did it" thinking it's a good idea.

[RHDVIPbB]

turbo guys usually run higher octane too.

[o89canucks]

pot calling the kettle black, you want to lean out a high-compression N/A engine for the sake of fuel milege, because "some guy with a 1993 eclipse turbo did it" thinking it's a good idea.

I asked if anyone had tried to lean it out for better fuel mileage, this forum is about fuel mileage, is it not? I was seeing if I could get some additional fuel mileage out of my daily driver is all.

[Penguin Garage]

how much adjustment can the AFC do on the yaris?

2%, 5%, 10%, 25% adjustment?

This is an expensive test to save $40 a tank, but I'd be interested to see it perform.


anyone care to comment?

[RHDVIPbB]

anyone care to comment?

the afc increments change depending on what rpm it is. I had an AFC2 on my Conquest and it was a great tool. There is more adjustments you can make. Although I am not sure how the AFC Neo works and what you are capable of doing with OBD2 and up.

Doesn't the AEM FIC allow you to adjust a few different parameters of the motor?

[Tamago]

Doesn't the AEM FIC allow you to adjust a few different parameters of the motor?

fuel and timing (retard only)

[RHDVIPbB]

fuel and timing (retard only)

crap. Guess its Autronic for me then.

[Penguin Garage]

the afc increments change depending on what rpm it is. I had an AFC2 on my Conquest and it was a great tool. There is more adjustments you can make. Although I am not sure how the AFC Neo works and what you are capable of doing with OBD2 and up.

Doesn't the AEM FIC allow you to adjust a few different parameters of the motor?

I'll have to look into it more, but i don't think the piggy backs can adjust fuel enough to make it worthwhile.

you could probably save more fuel by driving differently then you could by leaning it out 2.5%.

my POS Yaris is > * :D

[Tamago]

because it's turbo is the reason the DSM could safely lean out the engine and improve fuel economy (because he's not leaning out as much as you'll have to on the yaris to yield any gains).

[basslover911]

You can do it, but not that route. Whoever did that was lying.

Those aftermarket piggyback systems can only control open loop operation, and at "cruising mode" its always closed loop so you have to fool something else (like the signal from the 02 sensor). Now this has to be implemented so it only leans the car out under constant throttle (no acceleration)- otherwise knock will occur and your engine will blow.

So yes, you can do it, but only to a certain extent. Honda's "lean burn" system goes up to 25.1 I believe, we could probably get away with 17.1, but I doubt anything else (those Honda engines have specially designed pistons which can burn a much leaner mixture, while we don't (just conventional pistons)

[basslover911]

BTW, also keep in mind that with leaner mixtures you produce considerably more N0x levels, so your kind of polluting more... if you care :D