How to ground my Amp on Yaris Hatchback

[charleschia1986]

hi guys,

i m not sure whether is this topic already been discussed or not, but i just wondering what is the proper way to ground my Amplifier on my Yaris 5-doors hatchback?

regards,
charles

[lunjiaow]

Can ground it basically anywhere that has a bolt to the chasis.

[drew113087]

Can ground it basically anywhere that has a bolt to the chasis.

Yes, that is capable of turning the amp on. A simple grounding job may be adequate if grounding a subwoofer amp;When powering amps that power full-range speakers always do a detailed grounding job. ALWAYS sand more than enough area to bolt doun a grong point. I have a sedan, so it may not be exactly the same. Try removing the rear seats far enough to sand down a large area around the bolts to the rear seats. Once you see the nice shiny metal, put the sats back in while placing the gold buss bars on the bolts inbetween the bare metal and the seat frame. I have three short gold buss bars sticking from the seats and towards the trunk. One perpandicular one to connect the amp grounds three ground points on the rear of the seat. A shorter disance from the amp& more ground points=better. In some situations it may be necesarry to ground the sub amp at a different ground poin, to prevent feedback in the the full-range amp.
Also try investing in some pro home-audio RCA's they are a-lot better insulated, even if u do buy them fro Big-Lots. Always run the Rca's under the carpet down the middle of the car.

[charleschia1986]

thanks thanks....

[WolfWings]

And don't laugh... but look into adding a grounding strap that hangs down from your exhaust pipe or one of the bolt-holes on your front or rear bumper for tow-mounts, to ground to a more true earth ground.

It's an old trick from CB-radio crowds, especially those pushing (illegal) 100-1000+ watt transmitters but it can help with high-powered amps as well.

[The Architect]

if you want the best ground just run a length of wire from the - batt terminal to the amp, if youre using 4ga. it wont cost very much and youll know for sure.

[RUFFSTUFF]

if you want the best ground just run a length of wire from the - batt terminal to the amp, if youre using 4ga. it wont cost very much and youll know for sure.


NO!

[RUFFSTUFF]

Yes, that is capable of turning the amp on. A simple grounding job may be adequate if grounding a subwoofer amp;When powering amps that power full-range speakers always do a detailed grounding job. ALWAYS sand more than enough area to bolt doun a grong point. I have a sedan, so it may not be exactly the same. Try removing the rear seats far enough to sand down a large area around the bolts to the rear seats. Once you see the nice shiny metal, put the sats back in while placing the gold buss bars on the bolts inbetween the bare metal and the seat frame. I have three short gold buss bars sticking from the seats and towards the trunk. One perpandicular one to connect the amp grounds three ground points on the rear of the seat. A shorter disance from the amp& more ground points=better. In some situations it may be necesarry to ground the sub amp at a different ground poin, to prevent feedback in the the full-range amp.
Also try investing in some pro home-audio RCA's they are a-lot better insulated, even if u do buy them fro Big-Lots. Always run the Rca's under the carpet down the middle of the car.



Sounds a little overkill, but if that's the way you rock N roll... Though I recommend grounding all amps to the same point and ensure your RCAs are not routed with your power cables.

[Nexus1155]

Yeah you want the ground to be as short as possible from the amp. Just gotta sand down a spot of paint next to where you are putting the amp and just drill into the floor with a tapping screw. I did it, it works great, never a problem ever

[drew113087]

NO!

Thanks RUFFSTUFF, I had a few hundred question marks running across my head when I read that post too.
On the other hand of ovrkill takes the alternator whine out of the sytem then so be it. The more power you have going to the amp, and the crisper your speakers are capable of the better chance you have of hearing alternator whine. So w/ 150 watts going to each of my front B.A. I have a pretty good chance to get the whine if not done properly. Especially at higher volumes.
Kinda getting off topic but grounding the outer connector of each RCA to a random screw that toucches the metal frame of the radio helps. Had that problem w/ an old 2006 pioneer HU, but not my current HU

[sqcomp]

You can also make your own RCAs...

It's pretty rewarding, you do it right and it'll save you a good amount of money.

[RUFFSTUFF]

Alternator whine is usually independent of volume.. it is induced directly into the amplifier usually due to ground loops which is why it is most commonly heard at low volumes or when the amp is on but no signal is present. Gain will affect the "whine level."

[talnlnky]

if you want the best ground you can get (from the chasis) you will want to sand any painted metal like stated above.... also... you won't be using self tapping screws. You'll want to use a bolt of some kind whether it be oe or your own addition.

for reducing noise, rca placement has very little difference... the whole car is the ground... and interference can be induced from both the positive & ground... the "ground" in a car isn't a "true" ground there is still voltage and amperage passing through it... its not like a 3 prong plug in a wall outlet which has a pos/neg/gnd. Cars are actually more like pos/neg (ground is kind of a misnomer).

sheilded RCA's are usually a waste of money too...as the noise problems are usually nothing to do with the RCA's or shielding.

AND... as architect tried to say.... Sometimes running two runs directly to the battery, one for power, one for ground (pos+neg) is the best ground you can have. It all really depends on where your amps are installed, whats your power draw, and what your cabling is like for your Big 3.

To say anything otherwise is a hasty generalization that ignores many variables that come into play.

One last bit... if you want the best ground.... always use bigger power+gnd wires than needed. For example. Your amps have 60amps of draw and your power cable is 15ft long... you could get away with 4awg... but 2awg or 4awg would be even better. Thats expensive yes... I know... and thus some people may not be willing to do it... but you won't have the best ground then. If you are ever reaching the limit of your cables potential.... UPGRADE!

the biggest and most common offense for this concept isn't for amps however, but for the decks.... 99.9% of the time decks are installed using 16-18awg wire. Yet the fuses on decks are usually 10amps. Upgrade to 10-12awg for the power + gnd.... that will also help reduce the noise... ESPECIALLY if you ground to the same place as your amps!

In my mazda I ran 8awg to my deck... and it had a max amp draw of 2amps!!!! (no internal amp).... Seems overkill.... but I never had any noise problems.

noise problems are easy to prevent, but hard to isolate once you have them. The cost in copper is usually cheaper than the cost in labor you'll spend trying to solve noise problems.

[RUFFSTUFF]

...for reducing noise, rca placement has very little difference... the whole car is the ground... and interference can be induced from both the positive & ground... the "ground" in a car isn't a "true" ground there is still voltage and amperage passing through it... its not like a 3 prong plug in a wall outlet which has a pos/neg/gnd. Cars are actually more like pos/neg (ground is kind of a misnomer)...




Actually you are wrong. In your home the 3-prong outlets are POSTIVE/NEUTRAL/GROUND with the larger slot being NEUTRAL. NEUTRAL and GROUND are actually both connected to ground. This is a safety feature that allows a short to the casing of whatever is being powered to trip the breaker.

In a DC system (like a car stereo) ground always has current flowing through it as long as there is a path to the positive power source. In a car most people call it GROUND when referring chassis metal in a negatively grounded electrical system.

Some people advise against routing your RCA cables next to your power cables because the high current the power cables pass may be enough to induce a voltage into the RCA cables which would appear as noise.

[RUFFSTUFF]

Also keep in mind, many people advocate keeping the ground wire as short as possible... actually the best practice would be to keep the positive and negative (ground) wires as short as possible. The longer the cable, the greater the electrical resistance, the larger the voltage drop from source to destination for a given current. The voltage drop can be reduced by increasing AWG size, or shortening the wire.

[TinyGiant]

i installed my amp in the back and used the place where the spare used to screw into . i used a nut and bolt and tightened it with the wire between it.

the wire is about a foot long :)

[talnlnky]

Some people advise against routing your RCA cables next to your power cables because the high current the power cables pass may be enough to induce a voltage into the RCA cables which would appear as noise.

thank you for proving my point... power still flowing through the chasis... still a good amount of power (about 20-50% more power than over the power cable in fact depending on what kind of amp you run). And noise being induced into the signal via RCA's is still one of the least common reasons for noise in the system. So even if placing your cables did make any kind of a difference.... IT STILL WOULDN'T MATTER 99.9% of the time cause its all about bad electrical connections and voltage differentials.

[RUFFSTUFF]

Sure the most common cause of noise is grounding...


(http://www.carstereo.com/help/Articles.cfm?id=71)

[burttany]

I have my amp under the passenger seat. I put thought I grounded it correctly because I was getting some sparks when it touched the bolt. But for some reason I turn my car on and its not working.

[TinyGiant]

blow a fuse?

[RUFFSTUFF]

I have my amp under the passenger seat. I put thought I grounded it correctly because I was getting some sparks when it touched the bolt. But for some reason I turn my car on and its not working.



It's not working because it knows you don't know what you're doing...

Good luck! :headbang:

[sqcomp]

Burt,

The proper suggestion would be to remove the negative battery connection before you do any work on the vehicle. The ground to the battery should be the last attached before you start.

[talnlnky]

Burt,

The proper suggestion would be to remove the negative battery connection before you do any work on the vehicle. The ground to the battery should be the last attached before you start.

i never understood this step... I've heard people say that you should never have a spark when connecting stuff.... cause if you are... there's something wrong, and you can damage equipment.

my issue with claims like this is that 12v will cause the current to arch the gap when you go to connect the last cable. doesn't mean there's anything wrong... just that there is a voltage difference.

yeah... i figure its safer to yank the fuse, or disconnect at the battery.... but that won't stop a spark... it'll just mean the spark will happen in a different place. the safety of it has to do with if you drop a screw driver and as it falls it lands on power and ground cables or terminals on the amp thus becoming a tool that starts welding.

think about it... as soon as the caps inside the amp discharge (into the air) they will instantly draw power the second the ground cable gets an milimeter away from the battery post... thus causing a spark. If the amps is only disconnected for 5 mins the caps might not discharge, and you might not get the spark. However, let them sit for an hour or longer and you will get that spark. Happens every time.

so... if you could explain why I should disconnect the cable at the battery other than to avoid the welder... please share.

[TinyGiant]

i think its better to get the spark at the battery than the component you are installing . the surge isnt as close to the fuse which would pop easy.. thats how i always think about it.

[RUFFSTUFF]

Not pulling punches here... It is just plain stupid to perform any any electrical wiring with the battery connected. Takes 30 seconds to disconnect the negative cable... The spark here vs. the spark there concept is totally erroneous. The spark at the negative terminal that occurs when reconnecting the battery is not an issue... the spark occurs at a point where current normally flows, and is usually small unless you have a large load that is just waiting for the current path to be restored (NOT A GOOD IDEA). The spark that occurs when you're connecting a piece of equipment and you are too lazy or too stupid to disconnect the battery first, will usually put a large current where you don't want a large current (I.E. A SHORT) ---> fuses blow and or said equipment or something else stops working.

[talnlnky]

Not pulling punches here... It is just plain stupid to perform any any electrical wiring with the battery connected. Takes 30 seconds to disconnect the negative cable... The spark here vs. the spark there concept is totally erroneous. The spark at the negative terminal that occurs when reconnecting the battery is not an issue... the spark occurs at a point where current normally flows, and is usually small unless you have a large load that is just waiting for the current path to be restored (NOT A GOOD IDEA). The spark that occurs when you're connecting a piece of equipment and you are too lazy or too stupid to disconnect the battery first, will usually put a large current where you don't want a large current (I.E. A SHORT) ---> fuses blow and or said equipment or something else stops working.

I understand the safety issues... I'm arguing semantics here....

what type of load does say a 1,000w Class D amp or a 300watt A/B amp seriously have when it is not turned on... As in, the car is off, they key is not set to ACC, the radio is not turned on... but the battery is still connected.

I mean... shit... a bank of eight 2200uf caps doesn't really constitute a "load" when we are talking about kilowatt systems, 100+ amp fuses, and 4awg & 1/0awg cables.

I really have trouble believing that a short would EVER occur due to this, or that fuses would blow.

I honestly thing all the "car turned off, battery disconnected... yadda yadda yadda was introduced back in the day to prevent people who didn't know what they were doing from burning up cars and killing themselves.

[RUFFSTUFF]

I understand the safety issues... I'm arguing semantics here....

what type of load does say a 1,000w Class D amp or a 300watt A/B amp seriously have when it is not turned on... As in, the car is off, they key is not set to ACC, the radio is not turned on... but the battery is still connected.

I really have trouble believing that a short would EVER occur due to this, or that fuses would blow.

I honestly thing all the "car turned off, battery disconnected... yadda yadda yadda was introduced back in the day to prevent people who didn't know what they were doing from burning up cars and killing themselves.

Under most circumstances working hot on stereo equipment is not necessary. To bypass the most standard of safety protocols just because you have trouble believing a basic principle, is quite laughable. It takes about 100mA of current to cause death under worst case conditions. Certainly 1A is enough to permanently fry you like bacon. Considering an average car battery can put out 600CCA, the math is not in your favor in the case of a short. Of course, since you're not so good with electrical theory and the possibility of shorts occurring while doing work on live wiring, chances are you also suck at math so I'm probably just wasting my time... No wait... I am certainly wasting my time... nuff said once again.


UNSUBSCRIBE

[sqcomp]

Hmmm...

The negativity flows here. Taln is a good standing member here, personal shots aren't needed. Fighting over the internet is sort of stupid anyway.

Let us just disconnect the battery's ground and we'll be all good. Electronics can be very delicate. Mr. Murphy says so.

Math or no math, it is better to do so.

[talnlnky]

I know working hot is not necessary... something was said, and I simply challenge somebody to teach me a little about the subject.

I understand that shorts as minimal as say 30milivolts can damage circuitry....

I also understand that you can die from as little as say 250mA of current (to the heart)...
I also know that it is safest to disconnect power when working... i'm not asking about that...
I also know that unless somebody is sitting in a pool of water that a 12V source doesn't have the force to pass even .25Ampere pass the skin. The skin being an amazing insulator.

From the best of my knowledge 42volts was the lowest voltage anybody has died from (yes i understand voltage doesn't kill, its amperage... but without the force/voltage behind amperage it doesn't matter).

A battery could have 2million amps of current potential... unless it has enough voltage to get that current to pass through the insulator (your skin)... it doesn't mean jack. That's why I can place my right hand on one bat terminal.. and my left on the other terminal and I don't turn into a crispy critter on the spot.

Now... back to the real question...What kind of load would can we expect a modest sized A/B amp to put on an electrical system when it is hooked up (and set to be turned off).

And...
Would that draw/load really be realistic to pop say a 50 or even a 25amp fuse.

I'm waiting for your math.

[talnlnky]

Under most circumstances working hot on stereo equipment is not necessary. To bypass the most standard of safety protocols just because you have trouble believing a basic principle, is quite laughable.
To not address the question at hand because you are too lazy, or ignorant to answer the question (tho not willing to admit it), and would thus rather bash somebody for asking questions is also "quite laughable".


World is in a sad state when people are no longer allowed to ask questions.

[sqcomp]

:evil: FLAME WAR :evil:

:clap:

Let's get cheering sections going like they have at soccer matches

:drinking: :drinking:

[Slick]

Taln Taln he's our man, if he can't do it, I'm sure someone else can!!!

[sqcomp]

:laughabove:

:respekt:

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Taln!

:headbang:








...this is so juvenile...

[talnlnky]

:laughabove:

:respekt:

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Taln!

:headbang:

...this is so juvenile...

I'm not that kid yelling "fight fight fight" ... *caugh* sqcomp & slick *cough*

But an honest & technical answer from anybody would still be nice.

[Slick]

Sorry, I don't know the facts behind hooking up my wires aside from the basics. No problems yet. But I do not have enough info on this particular subject to present any sort of useful tech info :(

[Mobius1]

Battle to the death!