Serious Autocrossers?

[ozmdd]

Not to suggest that you must be "serious" to enjoy autoX, but I'm looking for anyone who is/has also preparing their Yaris for SCCA classing beyond H-Stock.
I'm planning on running in ST all next year, and would like to run some regional events, maybe even Nationals, so proper prep is critical.

I can't do much else HP-wise, but I will be looking at class-legal chassis bracing and more suspension tuning/upgrades.

I'd like to start by getting your feedback about alignment specs that you've tried on the autoX track. Particularly the rear. I know many people like to run negative camber in the rear, but this would reduce rotation, which increases understeer, so not sure it is useful. What about rear toe settings?

I'm currently at -2.25 camber in front (each side) and zero toe. Thinking about trying a bit more, and maybe 1/16" toe-out. This car has to stay daily-driver -friendly.

After that, what ST-legal bracing options can anyone suggest or give feedback about?
While the Yaris is definitley not a class-killer in ST, I think it can be a competitive car. I ran less than 1.5 seconds behind a fully-prepped Focus SVT whose driver has placed at Nationals in that car before, so I dont' think we're out of the running completely.

[Tamago]

no "bracing" is legal in ST or even FSP classes.

front strut tower bar is your limit. skip that useless rear "strut" tower "bar" as it does nothing but weigh your car down.

alignment, if you want to help with rotation, throw a Penguin Garage camber shim under the front lower bolt on either side of the rear hubs. that'll give you a bit of camber, but more importantly dial-out some of the aggressive toe-in that occurs (and worsens with lowering of the car)

[lilredrocket]

You want to give some info on what your setup that you have now. I will give what I have picked up at different events and from other reliable sources.

A little toe out in the rear will help your car rotate more. Might want to think about getting some stiffer springs than your NF210's you already have a good wheel and tire setup. Lots of track time is one of the best things you can do.

[mikenacarato]

no "bracing" is legal in ST or even FSP classes.

front strut tower bar is your limit. skip that useless rear "strut" tower "bar" as it does nothing but weigh your car down.


an scca official classed me in FSP with my xbar, room bar, and under bars. :iono:

[ozmdd]

Thx. I misspoke with the "bracing" term. My overall impression of the front strut tower bar is that it doesn't offer much improvement on our cars, due to the 1-bolt strut top design and the towers being attached to the firewall. Any mounts out there that actually tie the strut tops, and wouldn't that put a strain on the center shaft?

[ozmdd]

an scca official classed me in FSP with my xbar, room bar, and under bars. :iono:

That may be correct, but I do know that "odd"vehicles often get thrown into the SP or SM classes at our SCCA events, since they aren't likely to be protested there. Not planning to X-brace, so should be safe there. Thanks.

[RHDVIPbB]

Tires. A rear sway bar helps. But setup is key. I run a slight bit of camber in the rear. Noticed a difference in rear grip.

[ozmdd]

Tires. A rear sway bar helps. But setup is key. I run a slight bit of camber in the rear. Noticed a difference in rear grip.

Yeah, got all that. Kumho Ecsta XS 205/50/15 on 15x7 Volk TE37's, TRD rear sway.

When you say "rear camber" do you mean positive or negative, and do you know how much? How about toe? Thx!

[Yaris-x]

You can put any lowering spring shock combo(no coilovers) a TRD Rear Sway bar is legal in HS on Yaris but you should get the thickest sway bar possible for the yaris for the front and rear (Micro image I believe has a front) lowering springs, shocks, CAI, 18" wheels (anything to reduce body roll) My HS Yaris w/Rear Sway bar still loves to lift wheels off the ground.

[lilredrocket]

Ummm... The weight of an 18" wheel would kill a Yaris at auto-x. A front sway bar is going to cause more inside wheel spin. Check out this thread about the front sway bar.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20049

[ozmdd]

You can put any lowering spring shock combo(no coilovers) a TRD Rear Sway bar is legal in HS on Yaris but you should get the thickest sway bar possible for the yaris for the front and rear (Micro image I believe has a front) lowering springs, shocks, CAI, 18" wheels (anything to reduce body roll) My HS Yaris w/Rear Sway bar still loves to lift wheels off the ground.

Umm, that might be why you are winning by such a large margin. The only class-legal mod you listed there (by SCCA rules) is upgrading the front sway bar. That's why its called "stock." You are driving an ST car.

Also, 18" wheels are VERY heavy, so not good for acceleration. No, the TRD, or any other rear sway is not legal in stock. Sorry to rain on your parade. Your results are still great, and it sounds like you are a terrific driver, but if you are protested, you will lose.

[ozmdd]

Oh... adjustable shocks are legal, but not lowering springs (in HS).
Anyway...back to the original thread...

[Yaris-x]

My car is completely legal all I have is a TRD Rear Sway bar(factory option) and sport exhaust which is allowed

[Tamago]

an scca official classed me in FSP with my xbar, room bar, and under bars. :iono:

you should be in a prepared class.

no TRIANGULATION is allowed.

[kngrsll]

really, the last thing you need to worry about with the yaris is chassis stiffness. its a pretty damn good chassis actually. what you really want to do is improve grip, lose weight, and pick up power! i forget the exact rules of ST now, but its basically bolt ons.

grip: so grippy tires like the Toyo R1R is good at a 205/50/15 (i think 205 is the max width for ST?) there are very few shock choices available, with the Tokico Blues and HTS. The HTS has much higher valving and are adjustable. I have yet to see any data from any of the coilover companies shocks. there are very few springs available, the Teins are probably best for motorsports at 3kgF/3.5kgR. there are some sway bar options as well, front and rear through MicroImage. there are very few other parts available, so anything else will have to be creative and custom. as for alignment, crank in the front camber, toe out the front, and leave the rear alone at the minimum. The consensus around here is for the best handling, use springs, shocks, and rear sway bar but i havent followed anyones progress really so who knows how it works.

lightening: this is pretty limited as the car is already light. a light battery would probably help a ton. i havent looked into this area much, but i think its probably pretty limited in SCCA autox.

power: there are some bolt ons available, intake, header, pulleys, exhaust so on, all class legal.

now my opinion, i think the Yaris could actually be a decent ST car. you need grippy street tires, id say at least the Star Specs, but the R1R's are supposed to be better. ive even heard the new A08 is even better, but that will cost some coin. the current suspension up seems pretty tried and true, you should be fine with Blues, STechs, and a Rear bar. id try to get as much camber dialed in the front as you can, the car needs it. as for power, the mods will do a little, but dont expect a huge leap. i cant comment on the intakes, i think they would all perform about the same in general. the only header i would consider buying is the DC. i think an exhaust is a waste of money, if i wanted to do anything, id get a shop to make a straight pipe and just bolt it on when i go race to save a little weight. a pulley is nice, since its cheap, id get one. after that, we are pretty limited on class legal power mods. personally, id like to see what we can do with the camcon by power enterprises, it is used to modify vvti. may be able to pull a couple hp with it. the best thing we can really do is lighten as much as you can. i havent looked at the rules in a long time, but weight goes a long way! improves both speed and grip! id go with a light battery, lighter seats for sure. i need to look at the rules again and figure out where you can shed more weight before i can expound on that topic.

but yeah to get started: 15" light wheels, 205 grippy street tires, springs, shocks, rear sway bar should get you 90% of the way there. things like a dc header, pulley, intake, seat can all help a small amount in terms of performance. that is my personal set up and it has netted a couple 1st places in ST class at local events, but is in no way a nationals type set up. im experimenting with that now

[RHDVIPbB]

I have a slight bit of negative camber in the rear. I don't remember what degree, but I can pull out the sheet if I knew where it was or go to the shop that did it and pull my records.

[Tamago]

max width for ST is 245

[WolfWings]

You can put any lowering spring shock combo(no coilovers) a TRD Rear Sway bar is legal in HS on Yaris but you should get the thickest sway bar possible for the yaris for the front and rear (Micro image I believe has a front) lowering springs, shocks, CAI, 18" wheels (anything to reduce body roll) My HS Yaris w/Rear Sway bar still loves to lift wheels off the ground.

On a side-note, no, the TRD rear sway bar is not legal in Stock class. Automatically puts you into FSP, or one of the numerous ST? classes. Doesn't matter if you bought it from the dealership that way, the TRD rear sway bar is still a bolt-on sway bar, the car comes from the factory without any rear sway bar at all.

[ozmdd]

My car is completely legal all I have is a TRD Rear Sway bar(factory option) and sport exhaust which is allowed

That is not correct. Again, not trying to bust on you, but you should read the SCCA rules. Your car was not available from the factory with that part, therefore it is not class-legal. Just because Toyota sells it through their dealers doesn't make it legal. TRD also sells lowering springs and a CAI. It must have been produced at the factory in that configuration, in that model year, in the package you own. So, even if they start making the rear sway standard on the 2011 "S" package, you can't run it, because you dont; have that year/model.
Same thing goes for your 6.5" wide wheels.

Stock class is extremely strict, specifically because the cars are carefully class to be competitive. You are currently being given the most generous PAX index of any car in autocross, but your car has been given a significant handling improvement over your HS competitiors and the rest of the feild by way of your PAX. You wanna win that trophy fair-and-square, right?
If you doubt me, post the question on your local SCCA forum.

[ozmdd]

max width for ST is 245

Yes, but that's for STX and STU. ST/STS are limited to 225.

[ozmdd]

really, the last thing you need to worry about with the yaris is chassis stiffness. its a pretty damn good chassis actually. what you really want to do is improve grip, lose weight, and pick up power! i forget the exact rules of ST now, but its basically bolt ons.

grip: so grippy tires like the Toyo R1R is good at a 205/50/15 (i think 205 is the max width for ST?) there are very few shock choices available, with the Tokico Blues and HTS. The HTS has much higher valving and are adjustable. I have yet to see any data from any of the coilover companies shocks. there are very few springs available, the Teins are probably best for motorsports at 3kgF/3.5kgR. there are some sway bar options as well, front and rear through MicroImage. there are very few other parts available, so anything else will have to be creative and custom. as for alignment, crank in the front camber, toe out the front, and leave the rear alone at the minimum. The consensus around here is for the best handling, use springs, shocks, and rear sway bar but i havent followed anyones progress really so who knows how it works.

lightening: this is pretty limited as the car is already light. a light battery would probably help a ton. i havent looked into this area much, but i think its probably pretty limited in SCCA autox.

power: there are some bolt ons available, intake, header, pulleys, exhaust so on, all class legal.

now my opinion, i think the Yaris could actually be a decent ST car. you need grippy street tires, id say at least the Star Specs, but the R1R's are supposed to be better. ive even heard the new A08 is even better, but that will cost some coin. the current suspension up seems pretty tried and true, you should be fine with Blues, STechs, and a Rear bar. id try to get as much camber dialed in the front as you can, the car needs it. as for power, the mods will do a little, but dont expect a huge leap. i cant comment on the intakes, i think they would all perform about the same in general. the only header i would consider buying is the DC. i think an exhaust is a waste of money, if i wanted to do anything, id get a shop to make a straight pipe and just bolt it on when i go race to save a little weight. a pulley is nice, since its cheap, id get one. after that, we are pretty limited on class legal power mods. personally, id like to see what we can do with the camcon by power enterprises, it is used to modify vvti. may be able to pull a couple hp with it. the best thing we can really do is lighten as much as you can. i havent looked at the rules in a long time, but weight goes a long way! improves both speed and grip! id go with a light battery, lighter seats for sure. i need to look at the rules again and figure out where you can shed more weight before i can expound on that topic.

but yeah to get started: 15" light wheels, 205 grippy street tires, springs, shocks, rear sway bar should get you 90% of the way there. things like a dc header, pulley, intake, seat can all help a small amount in terms of performance. that is my personal set up and it has netted a couple 1st places in ST class at local events, but is in no way a nationals type set up. im experimenting with that now

Thx. I'll look-into the VVTi controller, since that is a legal mod. I run 90% of the things you mentioned. I'm seat-shopping now. I run an Odyssey battery, and that's 25 lbs right there!
I'm also pretty sure that throttle controllers are legal, so I'm considering the Blitz.
Until I see a dyno chart, I'm holding-off on the headers. So far, my dyno numbers (107 whp) seem similar to people who have the header too, so not sure it does much.
Thanks for your great input!

[lilredrocket]

For the springs what about the AOE Tigertech's they are 4k/3k. You can get them through Micro Image

[Tamago]

Thx. I'll look-into the VVTi controller, since that is a legal mod. I run 90% of the things you mentioned. I'm seat-shopping now. I run an Odyssey battery, and that's 25 lbs right there!
I'm also pretty sure that throttle controllers are legal, so I'm considering the Blitz.
Until I see a dyno chart, I'm holding-off on the headers. So far, my dyno numbers (107 whp) seem similar to people who have the header too, so not sure it does much.
Thanks for your great input!

skip the throttle controller. mod the driver.

[toad]

That is not correct. Again, not trying to bust on you, but you should read the SCCA rules. Your car was not available from the factory with that part, therefore it is not class-legal. Just because Toyota sells it through their dealers doesn't make it legal. TRD also sells lowering springs and a CAI. It must have been produced at the factory in that configuration, in that model year, in the package you own. So, even if they start making the rear sway standard on the 2011 "S" package, you can't run it, because you dont; have that year/model.
Same thing goes for your 6.5" wide wheels.

Stock class is extremely strict, specifically because the cars are carefully class to be competitive. You are currently being given the most generous PAX index of any car in autocross, but your car has been given a significant handling improvement over your HS competitiors and the rest of the feild by way of your PAX. You wanna win that trophy fair-and-square, right?
If you doubt me, post the question on your local SCCA forum.

i thought - and i could very well be wrong - there was a little loop-hole called 'port installed option' that allows the trd rear anti-sway bar on models/years that had that option available? again, i don't autox(yet), but i've done a fair bit of reading on the matter of hs prep and i think there's nothing wrong with taking every LEGAL advantage you can.

[Tamago]

i thought - and i could very well be wrong - there was a little loop-hole called 'port installed option' that allows the trd rear anti-sway bar on models/years that had that option available? again, i don't autox(yet), but i've done a fair bit of reading on the matter of hs prep and i think there's nothing wrong with taking every LEGAL advantage you can.

well, it's only illegal if you get contested. and when a yaris starts whipping up on 1990 honda civics in H stock, then the civics will take notice. however, a yaris on street tires is NEVER going to be whupping up on ANYTHING in h stock..

[anonymous user]

If i could add to this topic. I've been solo-ing for 4 years. And in subarus, now that i've blown a motor, i've been racing the yaris for a few events. I plan to run it for the rest of this season, and possibly for the next.

With that said, I now know why Yaris-x is soo fast in his class. His car should be classed in Street touring. In hawaii region, as per scca classing, NO rear sway-bar allowed, as well as aftermarket spring/struts. You can replace your strut, but stock springs must be used. There are a few modifications to be done in H-Stock, and are mostly small bolt-on stuff like axleback exhaust, a front swaybar may also be added or removed. And R-comps (tires) are allowed. That's mostly it.

Here's my mods, and it's crappy, but i'm in ST because of them. Blitz intake, TWM SSK/shifter bushings, ultra room bar, and TRD swaybar. THAT'S IT!!
I am currently on hankook rs-2's in the front, and primewell's in the rear. I can kick out the rear and spin this car like no ones business!
I am getting smoked right now by 2 honda fits, a maxima, and a few other cars in ST. Mods would help i would think, but i'm trying to improve myself as a driver (although to be honest i'm pretty good w/ AWD) trying to learn FWD.

Yeah, good tires would help, maybe 20 more HP, some neg. camber upfront and a smidge in the rear. Some toe-out in the rear. But i can't see this car competing against miatas, esp. on tighter courses, which we run in our region a lot.

But i guess i will be the only one racing, as you guys will have winter break soon, so i'll post up my results.

[TheRealEnth]

not here papo, we got sun all winter ;D, if anything itll drop to 50

[Tamago]

But i can't see this car competing against miatas, esp. on tighter courses, which we run in our region a lot.


that's because a yaris and a miata will never be in the same class, EVER ;)

[anonymous user]

that's because a yaris and a miata will never be in the same class, EVER ;)

Yeah, thank god for that. Miatas have the power to weight of a go-kart!
2 of my buddies have around 240whp in a 2100 lb chassis.

[ozmdd]

well, it's only illegal if you get contested. and when a yaris starts whipping up on 1990 honda civics in H stock, then the civics will take notice. however, a yaris on street tires is NEVER going to be whupping up on ANYTHING in h stock..


Well, he appears to be whooping up on all kinds of cars, since he's 2nd overall in the SCCA region he runs in.

[ozmdd]

Yeah, thank god for that. Miatas have the power to weight of a go-kart!
2 of my buddies have around 240whp in a 2100 lb chassis.

Miata and Yaris can't be in the same class because Miatas are 2-seater.

Your buddies Miatas would run in Modified classes, since they are obviously FI cars with that HP. I have a bunch of buddies here in the DFW Miatas that are similar.

[Tamago]

MR2 >Miata

haha

[mikenacarato]

you should be in a prepared class.

no TRIANGULATION is allowed.

fsp is prepared.

[ozmdd]

MR2 >Miata

haha

Depends on the driver, but often that is true. I've seen peopel drive the shit out of CRX's and beat well-prepared miatas and mr2's

[anonymous user]

fsp is prepared.

F- STREET PREPARED is not prepared (eg.- FP,/EP/BP, etc.)

Prepared classes are where you would be with the gt-spec under bars.
And a yaris has no place in ANY prepared classes. Go look up what runs in prepared classes.

[anonymous user]

MR2 >Miata

haha

Why, b/c it's a toyota? :thumbsup: I plan to get one in the near future, if i can find one.

[mikenacarato]

well they classed me with all of that...so im in the right class as far as im concerned. there was a day when a regional technician (i guess thats what you would call him) came to one of our events and was classing the members. He looked at everything and even noted i didnt have an airbag and put me in FSP. he did mention something about since the bars were not welded in and were removeable, i could be in this class. im not going to argue with him.

[Yaris-x]

I Have worked in sales at a toyota dealer for 2.5 years and the TRD Rear sway bar is able to be installed by toyota pre-dealer (Port installed) Lowering springs are only Dealer installed or I would have them too. I can produce the production codes if you don't believe me. The rule book specifically says Port installed options are the same as Factory installed options.

[Tamago]

Why, b/c it's a toyota? :thumbsup: I plan to get one in the near future, if i can find one.

1. because it's mid engined.
2. because it's lightweight and makes decent torque
3. because it's a toyota
4. because it's different. everyone and their mother (or gay father) has a miata. Mazda flooded the market while toyota capped production numbers.. when the miata is worth 500 dollars, the MR2's will still be worth 2000 .

[Tamago]

I Have worked in sales at a toyota dealer for 2.5 years and the TRD Rear sway bar is able to be installed by toyota pre-dealer (Port installed) Lowering springs are only Dealer installed or I would have them too. I can produce the production codes if you don't believe me. The rule book specifically says Port installed options are the same as Factory installed options.

i think you better start producing these rules from the SCCA 2009 rule book then :rolleyes:

[Tamago]

well they classed me with all of that...so im in the right class as far as im concerned. there was a day when a regional technician (i guess thats what you would call him) came to one of our events and was classing the members. He looked at everything and even noted i didnt have an airbag and put me in FSP. he did mention something about since the bars were not welded in and were removeable, i could be in this class. im not going to argue with him.

what's beating you in FSP ?

[mikenacarato]

theres only 2 other cars in fsp. 1 miata and 1 wrx, its always a tossup between us

[Yaris-x]

TRD Rear sway bar Production code HR

2009 SCCA SOLO Rules
12.4 STANDARD PART
An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been
ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and
delivered through a dealer in the United States. Port-installed options
provided by the factory are considered to be the same as
those installed on the factory production line. Dealer-installed options
or deletions (except as required by factory directives), no matter
how common or what their origin, are not included in this definition.
This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of parts.

[ozmdd]

SCCA National Solo Rules 2009
13.7 ANTI-ROLL (SWAY) BARS
A. For front anti-roll (sway) bars:
1. Substitution, addition or removal of any front anti-roll bars is
permitted.
2. Substitution, addition or removal of anti-roll bars may serve
no other purpose than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. No modification to the body, frame or other components to
accommodate anti-roll bar addition or substitution is allowed,
except for the drilling of holes for mounting bolts. Nonstandard
lateral members which connect between the brackets
for the bar are not permitted.
B. Rear anti-roll (sway) bars may not be removed, replaced, or
modified in any way.

From Section 13 "Stock"
Alternate parts listed in a factory parts manual are not authorized unless their use is specifically referenced in the factory service
manual or in a service bulletin for the specific model

Please show me the "port option exception" as it only exists in the Solo rules when it pertains to specific vehicles that have been listed in the "Stock Class Clarifications" section in the appendix. There isn't one for the Yaris, but the ones that do exist are items that MUST APPEAR ON THE WINDOW STICKER (not the dealer's add-on sticker.) EX. The WRX allows the port-added CF dash overlay, boost gauge and armrest.

[ozmdd]

TRD Rear sway bar Production code HR

2009 SCCA SOLO Rules
12.4 STANDARD PART
An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been
ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and
delivered through a dealer in the United States. Port-installed options
provided by the factory are considered to be the same as
those installed on the factory production line. Dealer-installed options
or deletions (except as required by factory directives), no matter
how common or what their origin, are not included in this definition.
This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of parts.

You just made my point. There is no factory-provided part here. Again, read the quote in blue in the above post. There is no such thing as a factory-installed rear sway bar on a US Yaris. The rule you quote clearly states that a factory-available part can ALSO be installed at the port instead of the actual factory and still be considered "standard."

[Yaris-x]

TRD is toyota toyota will install the toyota Rear sway bar at NY PORT and it would appear on the toyota build sheet as (PPO-HR TRD Rear Sway bar)

[ozmdd]

Again, you can't ignore the part of the rule that says that the option must be a factory option. This is not. Since you work at the dealer, show me the factory-option rear sway. And no, TRD is not Toyota. Not to SCCA. They have another section that refers to manufacturer-supported performance division parts. And that section ain't in "Stock."

Lets see your build sheet. Even if the rear sway was factory-available, the burden-of-proof would be on you to show that the part was legal. And you would have to have every other part available in that package, and the same year-model vehicle.
You can't cherry-pick the rule book.
Again, don't you want to win your trophy fair-and-square? Its not worth bragging about if you won it wrongly. Even Andy Hollis gave-up his title last year when he realized his motor wasn't 100% legal, by no fault of his own, and nobody would have ever realized it.
Integrity is what makes the sport fun. As good as you drive, you should still be able to place in ST, or run your events w/o the sway bar and class-illegal wheels.

[ozmdd]

Of course, you could also announce your non-complying mods to the other drivers in your class and ask for an exception. The you're legit. Lotsa people do that. I ran my Miata w/ an automatic radiator (metal) instead of the plastic one that comes in manual trannys and just told my competitors. They didn't care that I had an extra 4 pounds on my car, and I was legit.

I suspect that if you told your competitors about your changes, they might not feel it was fair. Maybe the wheels, but not the sway bar. I guess you could just ask them?

[Yaris-x]

Ok if you go to the dealer and buy a Yaris in "A" category and it still hasn't hit American soil. You can request that your yaris come in with a TRD Rear sway bar. When it hits NY PORT or whatever port your region receives yaris from it will go into a second assembly line state side where they will put on your Sway bar and Floor mats and whatever else toyota wants put on there. The Yaris will come into the dealer with the sway bar listed on the window sticker and if you print off the Vehicle inquiry then or 10 years from now in the Dealer Trac system it will list the Sway bar as an option on that vehicle. As for my wheels yes they are .5" too wide but they were approved by my regions solo chair and I do know if I went to compete in another region or at a higher event they may not pass but I am not running wider tires and I'm not even running slicks so I did so with the blessing of my regions SOLO chair.

[ozmdd]

Still not a factory item. Glad you did the right thing on the wheels. Good luck!

[kngrsll]

It would be nice to get a sticky with peoples set ups, how well they do, what events the do, so on. I know the normal set up here: springs, shocks, rear sway bar. I am actually experimenting with a new set up now.

The old mk1 VW Rabbits are the exact same layout as the yaris. Light, FWD hatcback with front strut suspension and rear twist beam. So we have a guy in our region who competes on the national level with his Rabbit, i thought i would ask what his set up is. The reason i wanted to ask was that i know that the VW twist beam guys have two major set ups, the same as our car: springs shocks rear sway bar, and another camp. This consists of big front bar, stiff rear springs (100-200 lbs more than the front), and no rear sway bar. So my idea is experiment and try this set up. So far, i have removed my rear bar, and added 6kg rear springs (350 lbs) to go with my front 3kg springs (175 lbs). the car drives different, but i cant quanitify it is better or not until i do some racing. it certainly feels different though.

the reasoning behind this set up: on the front suspension, you want to combat roll as much as you can to keep the front tires down. so a big front bar does that. in the rear, you want the bar to work as much as it is designed to do, keeping the rear tires down by the natural twist of the beam. but you need to maintain the balance front and rear so you increase the rear spring rates. this helps keep all 4 wheels in better contact with the contact surface. thats how it was explained to me by a VW guy. he also said the downside to a big rear bar is that it masks the problem by decreasing overall grip, while creating oversteer.

so anyways, that was my conversation, so i thought i would give it a try. if it works, cool, another option. if not, i can bolt all my old parts back on! I am going to do this setup without an LSD to start with, then with an LSD to see if that changes the situation.

so my new, final setup would be: custom front sway bar, no rear sway bar, 3kgF/6kgR springs, Tokico HTS's, and a 2 way TRD clutch LSD.

ill let ya guys know how it turns out.

[Tamago]

theres only 2 other cars in fsp. 1 miata and 1 wrx, its always a tossup between us

neither car belongs in FSP

wow, your autocross club smokes a lot of crack lol

[ozmdd]

Interesting approach. The biggest difference I can see is that our chassis is much stiffer than the old VW's, so factor that in.
I can attest that the rear bar made a gigantic difference in handling and limiting roll, probably cut 2 seconds off my time on a 45 sec course.

I'd love to do the LSD, but it bumps me to an absurd class.
Keep us informed, and I'll update you after my new alignment this week.

[Tamago]

Ok if you go to the dealer and buy a Yaris in "A" category and it still hasn't hit American soil. You can request that your yaris come in with a TRD Rear sway bar. When it hits NY PORT or whatever port your region receives yaris from it will go into a second assembly line state side where they will put on your Sway bar and Floor mats and whatever else toyota wants put on there. The Yaris will come into the dealer with the sway bar listed on the window sticker and if you print off the Vehicle inquiry then or 10 years from now in the Dealer Trac system it will list the Sway bar as an option on that vehicle. As for my wheels yes they are .5" too wide but they were approved by my regions solo chair and I do know if I went to compete in another region or at a higher event they may not pass but I am not running wider tires and I'm not even running slicks so I did so with the blessing of my regions SOLO chair.

you're still missing the point.

if you order a swaybar with your yaris and it happens to get installed at the port, it is NOT a factory option.

the only port installed options that are legal are parts that can (AND WILL) be installed at the factory. in other words, you order a yaris with ABS, and the factory does not install it for you, but the port does. THAT is legal, because the factory DOES install ABS on a yaris. but the factory does NOT install rear swaybars, so it's not legal in stock class, no matter who installed it.

i wanna fly to NY just so i can contest you now :laugh:

[Tamago]

I'd love to do the LSD, but it bumps me to an absurd class.
Keep us informed, and I'll update you after my new alignment this week.

there's absolutely nothing absurd about FSP lol.

[ozmdd]

absurd, in that I'll want to do all the allowed mods. The $$ will become absurd for my budget! I can barely afford ST! :)

[Tamago]

absurd, in that I'll want to do all the allowed mods. The $$ will become absurd for my budget! I can barely afford ST! :)

in many ways, FSP is cheaper than ST..

here's how

aside from the inital cost of buying the following items, you end up spending less overall.

second set of wheels. can be had for VERY cheap because any 15's will do, as long as they're 4X100 and at least 6.5" wide....

race rubber. . i buy my tires used for around $150 a set, and get an entire season if not 1.5 seasons out of them. there's no street tire in the WORLD that will cost you that little and last that long, not to mention the ridiculous grip (at least 2 seconds faster than a street tire)

so, initial setup, let's say $500 for wheels and tires.

then another $150 a year (im positive you can find used race rubber for around that price)

or ST class, a good ST tire is gonna cost you $100 each if not a little more, and you need 4 of them. because you're streeting them too, expect to be buying new tires every 6 months or so.

so, that's $800 a year on tires alone.


skip all the other SP legal mods, they're garbage. save up for some quality struts, lowering springs (if you haven't already) get an alignment, and call it a day.

i rocked FSP with my xA for 5 years and spent about $500 in that entire span on tires.

[ozmdd]

I prefer to run separate tires/wheels anyway, so tire wear isn't me problem. At least around here, the cars running in SP are mostly fully prepared, so not so desirable. We have a large number of regional/national competitors around here.

[kngrsll]

Interesting approach. The biggest difference I can see is that our chassis is much stiffer than the old VW's, so factor that in.
I can attest that the rear bar made a gigantic difference in handling and limiting roll, probably cut 2 seconds off my time on a 45 sec course.

I'd love to do the LSD, but it bumps me to an absurd class.
Keep us informed, and I'll update you after my new alignment this week.

yea, well, i think with normal spring ratio's, the rear bar is very helpful.

the LSD should put you in STX if you stay with street tires, right? you will never be competitive there, but if you switch to street prepared and got slicks, you may be able to be competitive, who knows.

i am not a serious autoxer, i do mostly track days, and i will still do the occasional autox. right now, i slot into ST, and should stay in ST until the LSD goes in. i wont buy slicks just to autox, so i dunno what class i would end up choosing when i go next spring.

i prefer track days, and i would like to do some NASA time trials. we have a ton of points to use bc the class we are in, TT-G, doesnt exist anymore, so to compete, you automatically have to be in TT-F, which frees up alot of points for you to use. so an LSD is no hinderance there. if i remember right, i can go to slicks, shed alot of weight, and even supercharge the car before worrying about the next class. id consider taking more weight out of the car if its simple and doesnt hurt the daily driving of the car, and i dont mind getting another set of wheels and slicks, but i probably wont supercharge it. you can also do a swap, but you assume the class of the car that the engine came out of. i think the perfect engine would be the 2.4L camary, 168 hp and its the same class as the yaris so it *may* be no penalty, but i doubt that. it shouldnt put you in TT-E though, so thats good lol.

keep up the conversation, ive been waiting to chat about these ideas for quite some time now.

[kngrsll]

as for the convo between tamago and ozmdd, i do like autox classing as a sort of "self check" to keep from spending too much money, or money on stuff i dont need. think about it, the rules only consider things that are really competitive improvements. if its a grey area and not on there, probably not helpful. another thing is it limits you to what you can do. my old 240 is the prime example. when i first bough it and modified it like a "time attack" jdm tyte car, it drove like crap. i did one autox in a stock s2k and ended up 2nd fastest time of the day. then, i knew i was fast, but my car probably sucked. so i sold my "w00t" parts: adjustable pillow A-arms, coilovers, lots of random stuff. i used that money to buy koni's, stiff springs, full poly bushings, and a set of wheels/slicks. then, i went from floundering mid pack in SM with street tires, to dominating DSP with (used)slicks, and went so far as infuriating a national champion by hounding him at a regional event and finishing 3rd. so i basically had bolts ons: intake, header, exhaust, pulley. and i had all the suspension mods: springs, shocks, sway bars, strut bars. there were a few things left, i had a seat already, and the final big piece in street prepared was the LSD. i got a helical S15 diff, and that TRANSFORMED the car. it went from a good, solid car, to unbelievably great!

then i started doing track days and totally forgot about autox lol i still try to loosely conform to some sort of class rules from SCCA mostly to keep me from buying stuff i dont need.

[ozmdd]

Yaris-X turns-out to be right on the sway bar. check this thread:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=401021#post401021

[Tamago]

Yaris-X turns-out to be right on the sway bar. check this thread:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=401021#post401021

nope, read my reply.

he's still wrong.

[Tamago]

I prefer to run separate tires/wheels anyway, so tire wear isn't me problem. At least around here, the cars running in SP are mostly fully prepared, so not so desirable. We have a large number of regional/national competitors around here.

then that saves you money on wheels.


now all you have to do is find one of those nationals guys with a set of scrubbed R comps he wants to dump before they get brittle from non-use and you're set for the season.

FSP ftw!

[kngrsll]

then that saves you money on wheels.


now all you have to do is find one of those nationals guys with a set of scrubbed R comps he wants to dump before they get brittle from non-use and you're set for the season.

FSP ftw!


or buy 2 yr old motorola cup hoosiers lol

[Tamago]

or buy 2 yr old motorola cup hoosiers lol

yup, or spec miata R888's and/or RA1's.. i've put hundreds of miles on used RA1's.

[kngrsll]

yup, or spec miata R888's and/or RA1's.. i've put hundreds of miles on used RA1's.

good thought, id like some R888s

[Tamago]

i've heard the Spec miata guys are boycotting the R888's actually, in favor of the older brother, the RA1

[mojoyaris]

Yup. This is what we're hearing from up north in Canada. Toyo USA seems to be bending under the pressure of groups like NASA to bring back the RA1.
The R888 is turning out to be a different animal than the RA1. Is it cost?
People are noticing that the R888's don't need as much camber on them to work as effectively as the RA1's which seem to need more camber in them.

Of course these are all the GG compound tires you guys have in the USA. In Japan we have the SG compound which is Hoosier A6 territory!! :)

Maybe soon you guys will get this compound in the R888's. Spread the word!
SG compound, We want them and want the SCCA to approve the tire for competition!!!!

The Yaris will do well in FSP with just suspension, LSD and tires. Smooth driving and learn to execute the tighter turns when you are in a gear that may be too tall to get any use of the power. Try some 225/45/13's to improve the gear ratio. This will help alot if you can't find a close ratio box.

You can also go 255/45/13 from Hoosier up front and put on 225/s on the back. Some fender work will need to be done.....

[mojoyaris]

Or go with the big boys and play in SM!!!

[Tamago]

Or go with the big boys and play in SM!!!

but whyyyyyyyy!!!!

it's sad that a supercharger puts you in SM, when the car could technically be thrown in STX or STU and be competitive without dominating.

[justjesus]

Depends on the driver, but often that is true. I've seen peopel drive the shit out of CRX's and beat well-prepared miatas and mr2's

Ahhh, you were there?!?! I didn't think anybody saw me. j/k. I actually got my arse handed to me in my CRX. The yaris, well, that's a different story. Well, not really. Still got my arse handed to me! LOL
.....but stay tuned...muahahahahahaha:evil: :burnrubber:

[RHDVIPbB]

well, it's only illegal if you get contested. and when a yaris starts whipping up on 1990 honda civics in H stock, then the civics will take notice. however, a yaris on street tires is NEVER going to be whupping up on ANYTHING in h stock..

Oh how wrong that last sentence is. There have been two in my region that have placed in the top 3 every event and even a few first place finishes. Driver experience is key.

[Tamago]

Oh how wrong that last sentence is. There have been two in my region that have placed in the top 3 every event and even a few first place finishes. Driver experience is key.

against what, and how many cars in H stock>?

what counts is what happens at nationals.

i am fast in south florida

i am slow, extremely slow on a national level.

[RHDVIPbB]

Well one Yaris does compete on a National level.
06 Scion tC
06 Mazda 6
92 Honda Civic
05 Scion xB
And a small handful of others that made it to most, but not all of the events.

[lilredrocket]

Tamago what about a Yaris on slicks? You can run those in HS. Just make sure you don't roll it.

[Tamago]

Tamago what about a Yaris on slicks? You can run those in HS. Just make sure you don't roll it.

exactly.

if you run slicks in HS, go buy that FSB. it goes against everything i say about a big front bar, but for the lvoe of god don't roll it

[Morgan]

ok....

for what its worth

I have driven my Yaris in HS, STS and now SM.... out of every class best bang for you buck is STS - hands down. Have a few bolt ons, beat some crappy newbs and call it a day.

HS was fun to me cause I could scare the living **** out of anyone due to the body roll, definitely worth a laugh, but you will NEVER really be competitive even with RComps in HStock. The car just doesn't have the characteristics of the worst year civic or <insert-any-crappy-HS-car-here>

But by far my biggest contribution -

After spending lots of both time and money on the Supercharger, RComps, Spacers (no offense Joel), Water/Meth, Springs and Sway bar.... in a heart beat I'd give it all up to go back to do it over again and spend all my money on the miata I picked up in July. Even with all of this I am not really competitive for FTD and on occasion get it handed to me by a stock mr2/miata. Its not that I'm not a good enough driver, its that the yaris just WAS NOT DESIGNED to do this type of driving - no matter what anyone says. As long as you keep that in perspective the yaris is a fun toy to screw with people at the track

Part of the appeal for me is to be the girl (considering I've seen only 2 other females at my region in the past 2 years) and to stay mid-pack in my econocar.

If you want to go fast and compete nationally, I hate to say it, but stick to what works and get a beater miata/civic/focus/mr2 and start there. Start with something fully independent, something seriously supported in the racing community and get lots of seat time. It sucks but if you don't accept that the Yaris will never be a national competitor you will waste lots of time, effort and money chasing that pipe dream :/

On a happier note, NOTHING beats scaring the hell out of someone in my car at the track who has just written me off as some chick with a hatchback up there to support her boyfriend :wink:

[lilredrocket]

I'm not going to run on slicks but your saying that if you want to run slicks in HS get the front sway bar from Garm? Why would you do that?

[Morgan]

I'm not going to run on slicks but your saying that if you want to run slicks in HS get the front sway bar from Garm? Why would you do that?

you can 'legally' run a front sway bar in HS, but you really don't need one in the yaris, it understeers enough as is?

For stock you need some nicely adjustable shocks, r-comps, roll cage (maybe?) and take your spare tire out... there's not a whole lot you can do with the Yaris but the jump to STS is exepensive - GL

[ozmdd]

ok....

for what its worth

I have driven my Yaris in HS, STS and now SM.... out of every class best bang for you buck is STS - hands down. Have a few bolt ons, beat some crappy newbs and call it a day.

HS was fun to me cause I could scare the living **** out of anyone due to the body roll, definitely worth a laugh, but you will NEVER really be competitive even with RComps in HStock. The car just doesn't have the characteristics of the worst year civic or <insert-any-crappy-HS-car-here>

But by far my biggest contribution -

After spending lots of both time and money on the Supercharger, RComps, Spacers (no offense Joel), Water/Meth, Springs and Sway bar.... in a heart beat I'd give it all up to go back to do it over again and spend all my money on the miata I picked up in July. Even with all of this I am not really competitive for FTD and on occasion get it handed to me by a stock mr2/miata. Its not that I'm not a good enough driver, its that the yaris just WAS NOT DESIGNED to do this type of driving - no matter what anyone says. As long as you keep that in perspective the yaris is a fun toy to screw with people at the track

Part of the appeal for me is to be the girl (considering I've seen only 2 other females at my region in the past 2 years) and to stay mid-pack in my econocar.

If you want to go fast and compete nationally, I hate to say it, but stick to what works and get a beater miata/civic/focus/mr2 and start there. Start with something fully independent, something seriously supported in the racing community and get lots of seat time. It sucks but if you don't accept that the Yaris will never be a national competitor you will waste lots of time, effort and money chasing that pipe dream :/

On a happier note, NOTHING beats scaring the hell out of someone in my car at the track who has just written me off as some chick with a hatchback up there to support her boyfriend :wink:

Just so people new to autoX are not confused here, STS is now called ST, and what used to be STS2 is now STS. Difference is that 2-seat cars are classed separately from 4-seaters. That changed this year, so people who have run it in the past are referring to the old class name. You won't ever run against miatas.

Morgan, you rock!

[lilredrocket]

I wasw going off of what tamago said. If you look at a classing sheet you can change your FSB in HS. Im not going to do this because my car is already classed in ST now but only just got classed there. I have only ran in 2 events this year and they were in SM because my back seat was out.

[Morgan]

Just so people new to autoX are not confused here, STS is now called ST, and what used to be STS2 is now STS. Difference is that 2-seat cars are classed separately from 4-seaters. That changed this year, so people who have run it in the past are referring to the old class name. You won't ever run against miatas.

Morgan, you rock!

on the class naming issue - I'm glad someone has explained that to me, our region is slightly archaic in the classing division but yes what you said makes sense. Yaris' compete against other fwd, with bolt ons and miatas compete in the class that are 2 seaters, with ~bolt ons

and thanks :biggrin: hope that info helped, even if it wasn't all good news

[Tamago]

I wasw going off of what tamago said. If you look at a classing sheet you can change your FSB in HS. Im not going to do this because my car is already classed in ST now but only just got classed there. I have only ran in 2 events this year and they were in SM because my back seat was out.

if you're not running R comps don't waste your time with an FSB.

just don't flip your yaris please

[lilredrocket]

I was only wondering why you recommend a FSB when running slicks?

[Tamago]

I was only wondering why you recommend a FSB when running slicks?

so you don't flip your stock-height yaris.

[lilredrocket]

Ok simple enough.

[RHDVIPbB]

How would you flip it? I ran my xB with r-compounds and never once did anyone say it looked like I was about to flip. Our cars are not top heavy like most people think.

[mojoyaris]

but whyyyyyyyy!!!!

it's sad that a supercharger puts you in SM, when the car could technically be thrown in STX or STU and be competitive without dominating.

I was in SM without a supercharger. It's just fun trying to see how well you can do in a certain category. Kinda like the David VS Goliath. I don't really care if I win. The car can't win in SM without a Supercharger and super big tires, but it's fun trying to get there!

For me, it's all about the fun. If you're not having fun, what's the point? Most people don't get paid to do this and it's all about the grassroots of the sport. Having fun, learning about your car and meeting people. I'm too old to worry about being uber competitive. My reaction time is too slow and my vision is failing me.

For serious Auto x'rs you gotta remember that it's the fun that counts.

When you auto x in the cold winter rain and slush and snow,,,,,sometimes its not fun.

We do this in the winter!!

[mojoyaris]

How would you flip it? I ran my xB with r-compounds and never once did anyone say it looked like I was about to flip. Our cars are not top heavy like most people think.

Ohhhhh trust me. it can happen. I've seen a few flip in Japan.

[kngrsll]

i have got to say, i loooooove seeing the racing forum finally hoppin!

that being said, yes, the car is not exactly sporty. i think if you are really serious about autox and you want to be competitive on a national level, you are really starting with a hand tied behind your back. that being said, when i bought my car, autox was not my intention. i bought it bc it was practical as hell, cheap, and could be fun with a few light mods. well, i think i am right on all those fronts! i have really enjoyed the car for the purpose it serves for me. i am not going out to be HPDE national champion, or win regional autox events, but if i can compete locally, cool. if i can have fun at a track day, even better! i have moved 5 times with the car (school, bouncing around from apartment to apartment) and each time, the car was perfect for the job.

so is it going to be a class changing competitior? probably not, but it is still going to be fun and cheap! when i finish school and have a little bit of money, i plan on getting an S2000 and trying my hand at regional/national level autox and then NASA TT's. But i may just look into doing TT's with the yaris as well, i dunno. but i reeeeally want an S2k if i get into serious racing and keep the yaris for daily driving.

[RHDVIPbB]

Nasa events are fun. We have local HPDE events that are fun to compete in. Next year I plan to compete in more events especially with our new road course being finished.

[ozmdd]

I found the Yaris to be great for TT events, so long as the course really is a TT-style. A good TT course is more open than an autoX course, but less open than a road course/track event. Just be sure to pay attention to your brake temperatures. converting your foglight openings into brake ducts is very useful for this. There is a write-up ont his mod somewhere.
Also, SCCA ST-class allows the addition of brake ducts if you dont' have to modify the body work. It is legal to cur a hole in the fender liner for this purpose.

[kngrsll]

I found the Yaris to be great for TT events, so long as the course really is a TT-style. A good TT course is more open than an autoX course, but less open than a road course/track event. Just be sure to pay attention to your brake temperatures. converting your foglight openings into brake ducts is very useful for this. There is a write-up ont his mod somewhere.
Also, SCCA ST-class allows the addition of brake ducts if you dont' have to modify the body work. It is legal to cur a hole in the fender liner for this purpose.

err, not sure what you mean by a TT. a TT to me, is a Time Trial. These are run on a full road course. It is usually run during an HPDE or a track event.

[ozmdd]

Well, you are correct, lots of versions of a time trial. The Texas Time Trials club here in Dallas sets-up TT's like what I described.

[anonymous user]

It's refreshing to see that other people (morgan) are taking notice that the Yaris is not the "ultimate" racing machine that many forum members revere it to be.

On that note, after blowing my motor on my SM WRX, i have gone ahead to race the daily driven yaris in ST. You have to put your ego aside if you are a good/decent driver, because this car just was not meant to performance.

Would I like to be competetive in this car? Of course. But not at the expense of spending thousands of dollars to build a car barely better than many stock cars out on track already. If you are modded to the limits of ST class, I'd have to say FSP is a great option. R-comps should drop your times significantly on longer courses, as well as shorter layouts.

I am really glad that so many of you take this car out to events. I have really enjoyed reading this thread, as I felt performance-type threads have been lacking for a while on this site.

[Yaris-x]

I race a yaris because its what I could afford at the time(Replaced my 85 Olds Delta 88) But I am really looking foward to buying the FT-86 when the Yaris is paid off that should be the "Ultimate Racing Machine"

[anonymous user]

I race a yaris because its what I could afford at the time(Replaced my 85 Olds Delta 88) But I am really looking foward to buying the FT-86 when the Yaris is paid off that should be the "Ultimate Racing Machine"

Could'nt agree more. But the wait is like 2 years. If i can wait that long, i may get one.

[kngrsll]

well, i autox'd today... took 2nd in ST out of 9 cars. i missed 1st place by 0.2 secs :(

the new set up is fun! its very oversteery...

[ozmdd]

well, i autox'd today... took 2nd in ST out of 9 cars. i missed 1st place by 0.2 secs :(

the new set up is fun! its very oversteery...

Ha! Ironic... I pulled 2nd out of 15 or 20 "under 2.3L" cars at the S2000 autocross today, missing 1st by .1 sec! I actually had the lead until an STS miata's final run.
I made some setup changes that really made a difference, and the car is rotating in a very controllable manner. With the right front camber, the turn-in has become very good, and the Kumho XS tires are damn sticky.
I'll post the results on another thread.
Maybe we can get a thread going just for autocross/TT results?

[kngrsll]

Ha! Ironic... I pulled 2nd out of 15 or 20 "under 2.3L" cars at the S2000 autocross today, missing 1st by .1 sec! I actually had the lead until an STS miata's final run.
I made some setup changes that really made a difference, and the car is rotating in a very controllable manner. With the right front camber, the turn-in has become very good, and the Kumho XS tires are damn sticky.
I'll post the results on another thread.
Maybe we can get a thread going just for autocross/TT results?

throw in setup as well, and we have a wiener

[Jason@SportsCar]

You just made my point. There is no factory-provided part here. Again, read the quote in blue in the above post. There is no such thing as a factory-installed rear sway bar on a US Yaris. The rule you quote clearly states that a factory-available part can ALSO be installed at the port instead of the actual factory and still be considered "standard."

While you may have good intentions you are incorrect with your interpretation of the rule. 12.4 specifically allows Port Installed options, and treats them exactly the same as assembly line parts. This is regardless of if the part was ever available on the factory assembly line, or if one was ever built at the factory.

There are a number of examples of 12.4 in active competition on the national level, and a great example of this allowance in Appendix F. Aside from the Subi clarification, there is the Shelby Mustang and Camaro SS, both built off site and stock legal. Many of the top Toyota MR2s in ES are hand built cars. The top guys have taken advantage of documentation that shows a hardtop, non-power steering ABS equipped MR2 option. There is zero evidence of one ever being built by the factory, or port, but because it was an option people have built them. The Mazda MX-5 MS-R is Port only built car, never done on the assembly line.

I as an tell you as a past member of the Solo Events Board, and having sat on number protest committees, that the Port is considered the same as the factory for SCCA Solo purposes. However, dealer installed items, even those that could be ordered from the manufacturer are not legal. Toyota, Scion and others have made it difficult for some people to figure out which ones are which, but if you do your homework you will not have an issue.

12 Automotive Definitions:
12.4 STANDARD PART
An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been
ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and
delivered through a dealer in the United States. Port-installed options
provided by the factory are considered to be the same as
those installed on the factory production line. Dealer-installed options
or deletions (except as required by factory directives), no matter
how common or what their origin, are not included in this definition.
This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of parts.

Appendix F:
SUBARU WRX OPTIONS
The following items are port-installed options on the Subaru WRX,
are listed when installed on the vehicle’s window sticker, and
pending evidence to the contrary are considered legal: carbon fiber
trim, turbo boost gauge, titanium shift knob, short throw shifter, rear
diff protector, spoilers, arm rest extension.

[lilredrocket]

So to run a rear sway bar on a Yaris in HS does the car need to be ordered with the sway bar or can it be put on at a later time?

[Jason@SportsCar]

So to run a rear sway bar on a Yaris in HS does the car need to be ordered with the sway bar or can it be put on at a later time?

No. You are not required to "order" you car with the options. The stock category allows you to "build" your car. However, keep in mind when adding any options, or doing an option package conversion, it must be a 100% addition/conversion. And most importantly the part must have been available from the factory/port for your model/year car . If Toyota said you can not have a RSB with a moon roof, then you would have to delete the moon roof to add the RSB. Also if they offered it as an option on the 2007, but not the 2008, you would be out of luck if you had an 08'.

Example: In very late 2005 (about a month before the Solo Natls) Lotus decided that an LSD was an option on the 2005 Elise. None had been built that way at the factory or port at the time, but two current owners were able to get the parts to equip their cars in time for the event. In this case the LSD option package also required adding traction control. Had they just installed the LSD, and left off the TC, they would not have been legal.

I am not up to speed on the Yaris, I just signed up here yesterday to do some research after a meeting our office had with Toyota. But looking at the Yaris page and building a car on the web site, it seems pretty easy to determine which options are factory/port options, and which are dealer. All of the non stock legal parts are the ones the say "**installation not included. See your Toyota dealer for installed pricing".

[ozmdd]

No. You are not required to "order" you car with the options. The stock category allows you to "build" your car. However, keep in mind when adding any options, or doing an option package conversion, it must be a 100% addition/conversion. And most importantly the part must have been available from the factory/port for your model/year car . If Toyota said you can not have a RSB with a moon roof, then you would have to delete the moon roof to add the RSB. Also if they offered it as an option on the 2007, but not the 2008, you would be out of luck if you had an 08'.

Example: In very late 2005 (about a month before the Solo Natls) Lotus decided that an LSD was an option on the 2005 Elise. None had been built that way at the factory or port at the time, but two current owners were able to get the parts to equip their cars in time for the event. In this case the LSD option package also required adding traction control. Had they just installed the LSD, and left off the TC, they would not have been legal.

I am not up to speed on the Yaris, I just signed up here yesterday to do some research after a meeting our office had with Toyota. But looking at the Yaris page and building a car on the web site, it seems pretty easy to determine which options are factory/port options, and which are dealer. All of the non stock legal parts are the ones the say "**installation not included. See your Toyota dealer for installed pricing".

Thx for the informed update. We had come to the same conclusion after consulting with the SCCA rules guys, but its nice to have someone who's actually seen the process work give some insight. Welcome to the board!

[Yaris-x]

Just out of curiocity what is you office doing with Toyota?

[Jason@SportsCar]

Just out of curiocity what is you office doing with Toyota?

No comment.

[Yaris-x]

Ok fine...but I did like your article on the Tire Test. It made my happy with my decision on the Star specs. But I do wish you used the RE01R's for bridgestone I have been curious how my tires mount up against them

[Jason@SportsCar]

Ok fine...but I did like your article on the Tire Test. It made my happy with my decision on the Star specs. But I do wish you used the RE01R's for bridgestone I have been curious how my tires mount up against them

We ran the RE01R in our 2008 guide, I liked the feel of it much better than the RE-11, but its not as fast as the current stuff.

[echosqwat]

My old 01 Echo was a ST like prepared car. Had huge 26 mm rear bar, Koni Sports (one o first set of Koni's in NA for these cars) , sport springs, ran 11 ln 15x7 wheels with 205/50/15 Falken Rt615's. Never ran it with SCCA but did run with Porsche club and beat over 50% of the PCA fields in the Echo. Hilarious putting $100K Porsches behind $10K econobox.

Here is vid of the car: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Toyota-Echo-AX_6448.htm

I'm looking to get Yaris soon. Likely will build FSP car.

Here is my current AX car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3uYEVnVf-E