SCCA Classing Update - I WAS WRONG!!

[ozmdd]

Ok, this may be the biggest reversal in recent memory for me. All of my legal-ese experience let me down here, and Yaris-X is actually correct.

Here is the reply from the SCCA rules person I asked:

Hi, Michael,

From the 2009 Solo Rules, 12.4, Standard Part, 2nd sentence (page 55): “Port-installed options provided by the factory are considered to be the same as those installed on the factory production line.”

Basically, anything that can be installed before it gets to the dealer is considered to be a standard part.

Hope this helps.

- Doug
Doug Gill
SCCA Solo Competition Manager

This really makes the Yaris a serious competitor in HS. Now, what other stuff can you special order and get put-on at the port??

[kngrsll]

interesting... springs, shocks, sway bar, TRD japan makes alot, so if you can get it through the dealer, hmm lol

[Tamago]

Ok, this may be the biggest reversal in recent memory for me. All of my legal-ese experience let me down here, and Yaris-X is actually correct.

Here is the reply from the SCCA rules person I asked:

Hi, Michael,

From the 2009 Solo Rules, 12.4, Standard Part, 2nd sentence (page 55): “Port-installed options provided by the factory are considered to be the same as those installed on the factory production line.”

Basically, anything that can be installed before it gets to the dealer is considered to be a standard part.

Hope this helps.

- Doug
Doug Gill
SCCA Solo Competition Manager

This really makes the Yaris a serious competitor in HS. Now, what other stuff can you special order and get put-on at the port??

read the part in bold.

TRD rear sway bars are NOT provided by the factory. it's just a rebadged bar from Hotchkis or similar.

he's still wrong, and you're still right

[frownonfun]

read the part in bold.

TRD rear sway bars are NOT provided by the factory. it's just a rebadged bar from Hotchkis or similar.

he's still wrong, and you're still right

i see what your saying but is that common knowledge to most? would they know something by Toyota Racing Development was actually just another brand rebadged?

not trying to contradict or disagree with you... just wondering if SCCA naivete (or expertise?) is something to consider on this matter?

[Tamago]

i see what your saying but is that common knowledge to most? would they know something by Toyota Racing Development was actually just another brand rebadged?

not trying to contradict or disagree with you... just wondering if SCCA naivete (or expertise?) is something to consider on this matter?

SCCA expertise is not the issue here. it's the fact that if you run a port installed (and not factory available) rear swaybar in H stock, you ARE CHEATING. now, if everyone in your class is ok with you cheating, then technically you're not. but the "port installed" loophole is not gonna cut it in this case.

sorry yaris-X

[frownonfun]

ok my bad. didn't think it was such a moral issue. just figured rules, in many cases, depend upon who is interpreting them.

but like i said i'm not disagreeing with you, it's clear that a TRD sway bar would be illegal in this class.

(imo though, who's gonna know?)

[Tamago]

i agree with you, and i am not saying that you shouldn't run HS with a rear swaybar, i just don't think broadcasting to the world that it's "scca legal" is a very "moral" thing to do.

it's only legal if you get caught.


and more importantly, try keeping up with an HS MINI cooper anyway lol. they're pretty much the class leader.

[frownonfun]

and more importantly, try keeping up with an HS MINI cooper anyway lol. they're pretty much the class leader.

that's what i hear.

[Tamago]

that's what i hear.

i don't see an HS MINI driver stopping to contest an RSB on a Yaris anyway :laugh:

[frownonfun]

yeah i doubt it. out of curiosity, does the MINI come with a sway bar from the factory? or is it an option at least from the factory?

[Tamago]

yeah i doubt it. out of curiosity, does the MINI come with a sway bar from the factory? or is it an option at least from the factory?

the mini has fully independent rear suspension


it's actually designed to handle, unlike the yaris, where the rear suspension was designed to keep the bumper from touching the ground :laugh:

[frownonfun]

well there is about a $10,000 difference between the two. i'd personally love a mini but i like low car payments even more.

[Yaris-x]

I still think i'm right even after that reply because toyota makes very few parts themselves. all the parts except body pannels are out sourced they go to companys and ask them to bid on a part the lowest bidder gets to make the part w/ Toyotas name on it. So yes some company made the sway bar and put TRD logo's on it but so is every other part. The reason that Definition is even in there is because I had my Solo Chair call our Regional Rep and had her question it at one of there national meetings I was questioning Scion specifically(I aloso own an xA) So low and behold 2009 Rules come out and there is the Definition. ANY PART INSTALLED AT PORT IS A FACTORY INSTALLED OPTION. Toyota and no other comany is installing this part it is on the window sticker it is on the build sheet forever for that VIN number as a Stock part.

[Tamago]

you go chase those HS MINI's then!

[Yaris-x]

This really makes the Yaris a serious competitor in HS. Now, what other stuff can you special order and get put-on at the port??

That is the unfortunate question That is the only part that is benificial on the Yaris.

Scion gets alot more.

[Tamago]

That is the unfortunate question That is the only part that is benificial on the Yaris.

Scion gets alot more.

a lot more garbage..

like LED's in the cup holders

and subwoofers

scion dropped the ball on the xA as far as "performance" parts go.

[Yaris-x]

Yes scion did drop the ball on the xA that why my wife got that and I went out and bought the yaris. but the tC can leave the factory with alot more performance.

TRD 18" x 7.5" 5-Spoke Alloy Wheels $1,999 (L7)
TRD Struts/Shocks Kit (TS)
TRD Lowering Springs Kit (TL)
TRD Assembly Clutch (TC)
TRD Quick Shifter (TQ)
TRD Sport Muffler (37)
Trd Rear Sway Bar (HR)

All these are PORT options

[Tamago]

Yes scion did drop the ball on the xA that why my wife got that and I went out and bought the yaris. but the tC can leave the factory with alot more performance.

TRD 18" x 7.5" 5-Spoke Alloy Wheels $1,999 (L7)
TRD Struts/Shocks Kit (TS)
TRD Lowering Springs Kit (TL)
TRD Assembly Clutch (TC)
TRD Quick Shifter (TQ)
TRD Sport Muffler (37)
Trd Rear Sway Bar (HR)

All these are PORT options

and only the struts will make it actually faster at autocross.. the 18's ? get outta here, they're ridiculously heavy.

[ozmdd]

Tamago: Well, the letter-of-the-law is clearly in my favor on the RSB, but the SCCA official who determines these things at the national level determined the interpretation to be a little looser than the strict "from the factory" wording.

Regarding the tC upgrades at Autox, I'd also say the TRD springs and maybe clutch would be potential improvements. I'd need more info on the clutch, but the springs are stiffer and lower. The tC comes with an RSB, right?

Yaris-X, you've got to recognize the issue of unsprung weight. 18's are CRAZY heavy, both rims and tires. The stiffer sidewall in no way offsets the weight gain. Purely a cosmetic upgrade.

[Tamago]

how is a clutch going to make the car faster ?

[ozmdd]

C'mon, you're just being difficult now. :brokenheart: Less-clutch slip=faster off the line. Again, that's under the assumption that the TRD clutch is higher friction, which it might not be.

[Tamago]

C'mon, you're just being difficult now. :brokenheart: Less-clutch slip=faster off the line. Again, that's under the assumption that the TRD clutch is higher friction, which it might not be.

stiffer clutch = heavier clutch.

have i done the math well enough for you?

[frownonfun]

i think, though i'm not for sure, you are talking about a difference of around 5lbs between the stock and TRD clutch.

[ozmdd]

stiffer clutch = heavier clutch.

have i done the math well enough for you?

Ahh.. for all your knowledge, you just couldn't fit people skills into the mix, eh? I suppose the sky isn't really blue, either.

[Tamago]

Ahh.. for all your knowledge, you just couldn't fit people skills into the mix, eh? I suppose the sky isn't really blue, either.

nope, the sky is black! :D

[bearda]

Those are all port installed options? I was under the impression most of those were dealer installed. Items like that seem to be dealer installed for almost every other car (Nismo, SPI, Mazdaspeed, etc).

[mikenacarato]

The dealer said that TRD parts (if you build your car) are installed overseas at the factory. At the same time they can be ordered and installed at a local dealer as well.

[cali yaris]

The TRD clutch for the Scion tC is definitely stiffer. I have a car in my shop with that upgrade.

[mikenacarato]

the TRD clutch for the 1nzfe says it has 15% more clamping force. I would think it would feel somewhat different.

[Tamago]

the TRD clutch for the 1nzfe says it has 15% more clamping force. I would think it would feel somewhat different.

15% what a waste...

and it will never make you faster at autocross. autocross is not about the launch.

[Yaris-x]

With Scion and toyota they make certain bolt on parts available at port for two reasons so dealerships don't have to pay a Tech to install them and so there for they are more profitable and as a result they cost less to the customer as well (no labor cost) I know as a salesman I much prefer to have the parts installed at port I make more comission

[Jason@SportsCar]

read the part in bold.

TRD rear sway bars are NOT provided by the factory. it's just a rebadged bar from Hotchkis or similar.

he's still wrong, and you're still right

Doug is not wrong. It does not matter who the part is from, only that the factory spec'd it - and it is the part they spec'd.

There are a number of cars, both OE and Port built, that have come with "after market" items like Koni shocks, Torsen LSDs. The stock legal Mazdaspeed Protege is a Racing Beat parts bin car.

You don't actually think Toyota builds all the parts on the car?

[mikenacarato]

jason, glad to have you here. thanks for clarifying this with us. one thing though....tamago is always right...no matter how wrong he is. you will see.

but anyways, welcome!
I <3 SCCA! :)

[HTM Yaris]

Mini's can be beat in H stock by the Yaris . I have done it on more than a few occasions .

[Yaris-x]

Any vehicle can be beat but at that point it comes down to Driver Skill. On a level skill field the mini will beat the yaris every time

[HTM Yaris]

I dunno , I've driven my GF's mini on the same day and course as my Yaris with the same wheels/tires , about as even as you can get . The Yaris was .2 seconds faster . I did 4 runs (fun runs) with the mini . Twice the mini's power steering failed , or rather hiccuped .

I think the mini is over rated . A lot of peeps see what the mini s is capable of and think the mini (regular) will do the same thing or even close . It won't .

Sidebar mini rant :

Be glad you own a Yaris . My GF's mini has 55,000 miles on it . So far the transmission ($8800) , power steering ($1100) ,and rear brakes ( calipers , pads , rotors and sensor , $1300 ) have been replaced . Luckily the tranny was covered by the extended warranty . ( Damn , price wise , we not far away from a brand new Yaris )
Like I tell my GF , "If you take a pile of shit and put it in a pretty package and throw in the phrase German Engineering , white people will buy it ".

I totally agree that a skilled driver in a supposedly slower car will be faster than a non skilled driver in a supposedly faster car on an Autox course .

Sorry for getting off topic with the rant .

Oh BTW , killer pics Yaris X :cool: