Dear GM, this is what happens when you don't let the gov't take over: [Archive] - Toyota Yaris Forums

JBougie

11-02-2009, 03:46 PM

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/nov2009/db2009112_075062.htm

Ford Reports Nearly $1 Billion ProfitThe latest and strongest sign of the automaker's comeback comes as it pays down debt and adds to U.S. market share

Altitude

11-02-2009, 05:49 PM

127.0.0.1

11-02-2009, 05:57 PM

Or it could be what happens when your company is financially sound to start with as opposed to GM who was so unstable that they required a bailout in the first place. GM failed long before the government got involved.

+1

GM did it wrong, and builds junk, always builds junk and can never change
that is why they went in the crapper

Ford is the typically the ONLY US car manufacturer whose products can
compare to Japan, and consumers know that. Ford does things right, mostly.

I'd take a Ford over anything (besides Toyota) if I had to....

severous01

11-02-2009, 06:06 PM

the only thing i'd buy from GM would have to be one of their heavy duty 1500 or 2500 trucks...gas, which is a shame, and then i'd have every recall and TSB checked and changed out.

i'll never buy a GM car unless they come out with the new 2012 trans am....unless nostrodamus did really predict the end of the world correctly....and i'll deal with the mess of having to constantly be replacing stuff on it cuz the new TA is badass...and it can spend time in the shop if it needs to.

Bob Dog

11-02-2009, 07:25 PM

This has nothing to do with bailouts, and everything to do with the preposterous disregard of the American comsumer by American corporations. Ford is profitting, not so much because they build a really good product, but because they build the least awful product one can buy if one feels compelled to drive an American vehicle.

supmet

11-02-2009, 07:40 PM

This has nothing to do with bailouts, and everything to do with the preposterous disregard of the American consumer by American corporations.

Its not as preposterous when you look at how dumb the average american consumer is.

Ford is profitting, not so much because they build a really good product, but because they build the least awful product one can buy if one feels compelled to drive an American vehicle.

+1 and if there wasn't all this crap on the news about the failing economy and how buying a ford built in mexico helps america more than buying a toyota made in kentucky, ford would be on the way out too. American car companies are still spending too much money on advertising and talking shit about toyota/honda and not enough on building cars that don't suck.

Btw guys, buy a GM, because honda makes lawnmowers.(that is seriously the only thing I get out of GM commericals.

Bob Dog

11-02-2009, 07:46 PM

Maybe GM could rebadge some Briggs and Strattons or Homelites like they have done with Suzukis, Daewoos and Toyotas..,

thebarber

11-02-2009, 07:58 PM

imo, they're all trying their damnedist to turn themselves around....for was first because they were failing BEFORE the recession hit and made a long-term action plan....

bottom line: the big 3 were living fat off the profit of trucks and when the gas spiked they started losing market share because they had no good, efficient small cars.

i think they all see the light now.

toyota and honda better watch out though, im not sure amercian/canadian consumers still want bland-o-matic vechicles like they're still pumping out...i know i don't.

supmet

11-02-2009, 08:01 PM

Altitude

11-02-2009, 08:52 PM

I'd also like to point out that Ford has had the ultimate bailout for decades. Its called the "damn near every police car and city vehicle in the country is a ford," and they make a shit load of money off that.

I'd call that a wise business strategy.

Bob Dog is right though, American car companies generally make crap. And to make matters worse are all those "free-market capitalists" that insist on buying American just because it's American. That's not capitalism, that's nepotism at worst and nationalism at best. Capitalism would dictate that consumer's buy the best product regardless of who makes it.

Bob Dog

11-02-2009, 09:46 PM

I did one of my 400 level Business school papers on this subject. American car companies go for the immediate bottom line. Japanese companies favor an outlook of long term corporate sucess. Perhaps this may have something to do with cultural sentiments, but I suspect the has more to do with the fact that American auto execs make aburd salaries tied only to momentary profits, were as Japanese corporate culture has been traditonally been more one of investiture of ones self in the corporation. There fore Japanese cars are built for the long term, American cars have been built only considering right now profitability. The American companies have been getting there collective asses kicked for having this outlook, so they have been rethinking this, or at least advertising that they have.

frownonfun

11-02-2009, 09:51 PM

Its not as preposterous when you look at how dumb the average american consumer is.

+1 and if there wasn't all this crap on the news about the failing economy and how buying a ford built in mexico helps america more than buying a toyota made in kentucky, ford would be on the way out too. American car companies are still spending too much money on advertising and talking shit about toyota/honda and not enough on building cars that don't suck.

Btw guys, buy a GM, because honda makes lawnmowers.(that is seriously the only thing I get out of GM commericals.

yeah those GM propaganda commercials with howie long are really really really annoying. i have to turn the channel.

Bob Dog

11-02-2009, 09:54 PM

I want to sneak up behind that jerk and hit him with something

JumpmanYaris

11-02-2009, 10:19 PM

hahahaha i just recently seen a commercial from GM dizzin Toyota about MPG

RUFFSTUFF

11-02-2009, 10:26 PM

Ford isn't much different than anyone else... they just happened to have made a few moves that turned out favorable when the recession hit. They are not immune to issues...

RUFFSTUFF

11-02-2009, 10:26 PM

TLyttle

11-02-2009, 10:59 PM

Lots of very interesting comments here. I agree with most of it, including the "Ford is the least worst", and the stupidity of the average car buyer. As for the former, I have owned my share of pigups, and Ford was the toughest of the lot by far. I had less to do with cars, except for the Mustangs, and found them far more acceptable than anything GM or Chrysler turned out; they were light, strong, and durable; what else could one want?

On the latter, I cannot believe the number of cupholders found in these plastic junkpiles, yet they are only there because they help sell the mechanical rubbish underneath. Watching the steering geometry of a US-built van during parking is enough to make me retch. Finding a US-built car that has any kind of sensitive control when driven quickly is impossible...

frownonfun

11-02-2009, 11:39 PM

it's weird some of you guys see many ford police vehicles. i see very few around here. mostly dodges and chevys and oddly enough a few tundras. not too many fords though. hmm. oh well.

Phaeton

11-02-2009, 11:43 PM

Altitude

11-02-2009, 11:53 PM

I did one of my 400 level Business school papers on this subject. American car companies go for the immediate bottom line. Japanese companies favor an outlook of long term corporate sucess.

+1

Though it's not limited to automobile companies, it's American corporations in general. Even when we manage to innovate something big you can be sure the rights and patents will be sold to the highest bidder.

mr9865

11-03-2009, 12:46 AM

What I like about the 2 ford's I've had is the styling and interior. The mpg and the build quality are average, and both have come from Mexico. (escort and my focus)

talnlnky

11-03-2009, 06:00 PM

+1

GM did it wrong, and builds junk, always builds junk and can never change
that is why they went in the crapper

Ford is the typically the ONLY US car manufacturer whose products can
compare to Japan, and consumers know that. Ford does things right, mostly.

I'd take a Ford over anything (besides Toyota) if I had to....

yeah... I think FORD hit a fork in the road (and chose the better path) back in 97 when they bought Mazda... IMO mazda's quality went down a tad... but ford's went up. GF could use a new truck... for pulling her 3 horses around... currently has a 96 chevy with a 454.... Someday we'll be forced to buy... if it was tomorrow... we'd be looking at ford... cause we be po (and can't afford toyota). Ford has been the only domestic to look to for the past decade.

Bob Dog

11-03-2009, 06:16 PM

One thing america has always tended to do best is build large trucks.

tomato

11-03-2009, 06:19 PM

I see a lot of older US made pick-up trucks on the road all the time.

supmet

11-03-2009, 08:35 PM

Ford has turned themselves around in the last 2 years. The build quality and reliability is on par with toyota on a lot of the newer Ford's. I've owned some real P.O.S. Ford's in the past, but I'm tempted to buy a new F-150 for my job down the road.

Because the commercial said so????

How... HOW in god's name can you know the quality of something built in the last 2 years. EVERY CAR lasts 2 years.........

"I've wasted thousands of dollars on fords over the years, my toyota has never had a problem, but those commercials and consumer reports say ford is the best, so I'll ignore all real world data, and go with what they say."

Kal-El

11-04-2009, 12:11 AM

Because the commercial said so????

How... HOW in god's name can you know the quality of something built in the last 2 years. EVERY CAR lasts 2 years.........

"I've wasted thousands of dollars on fords over the years, my toyota has never had a problem, but those commercials and consumer reports say ford is the best, so I'll ignore all real world data, and go with what they say."

You have a point about long term quality being the real test. So far though, the Ford Fusion/Milan (out for 4 years) surpass the quality ratings of Camry and Accord making them among the most reliable cars available. That's huge.

Bob Dog

11-04-2009, 12:56 AM

According to who?

Shroomster

11-04-2009, 02:12 AM

it's weird some of you guys see many ford police vehicles. i see very few around here. mostly dodges and chevys and oddly enough a few tundras. not too many fords though. hmm. oh well.

only thing of Ford that any of the response teams use (police, fire, rescue, sherrif, highway patrol etc.) is the Explorer. EVERYTHING CRUISER is an IMPALA, and everything not car/truck based is some sort of truck/chassis company (usually goes by who wins bids to build)

Kal-El

11-04-2009, 08:19 AM

According to who?

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1101555

Consumer Reports, JD Power, ect...

The Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan once again beat the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. The upscale Lincoln MKZ beat its rivals, the Acura TL and Lexus ES.

Don't get me wrong, I'd still stick with Toyota (or Honda) as I suspect long term reliability to still be better.

Fact of the matter is, though, is Ford has made huge strides yet people in this thread continue to say they are junk when they don't know what they are talking about. Things can change, just look at Hyundai. Once complete garbage, now among the highest in quality.

Mouse

11-04-2009, 12:11 PM

firemachine69

11-04-2009, 12:40 PM

TLyttle

11-04-2009, 01:49 PM

Not sure where you get that info, Mouse, GM and Chrysler have a very large presence in Europe. There are very few people who want to drive US-made vehicles there; one only has to look at the streets to see why... All three companies own manufacturers nearly everywhere in the world, and make no secret about about the ownership.

Every once in awhile a US-built vehicle is seen, but it usually has plates showing it to be owned by a military serviceman. Biggest laugh for me on the autobahn was watching a restored 396 Chevelle, wallowing along in the left lane at 115mph+, with a row of assorted Golfs, Mercs and Porsches flashing their lights at him to get the hell out of the way.

Bob Dog

11-04-2009, 02:18 PM

I'm not speaking just of durability , but drivability

Mouse

11-04-2009, 02:45 PM

TLyttle: You're right...Seriously. I assumed so after reading this article.....http://media.ford.com/news/fordofeuropebreaks10percentmarketsharebarrier.htm

RedRide

11-04-2009, 02:50 PM

I think people are missing a big component that Ford has over GM and Chrysler. That has contributed to their success. Ford has a bigger international market share compared to the other 2. To my understanding Fords in europe are fairly common. GM and Chrysler cant sell anything outside of N.A. that isn't a Corvette or Viper.

Excellent point and correct.:smile:
Ford is a global company. GM is mainly a a US company.

BTW, if I was in the market for a a pickup, I would get a Ford.

Kal-El

11-04-2009, 11:49 PM

GM is very much a global company. They were the largest automaker in the world for 77 years straight. You can't do that without being successful worldwide.

GM is China's biggest selling foreign automaker. And china is slightly large.

Are you guy's forgetting Opel and Vauxhall, GM's European brands that contain tons of models that we don't have here?

Kal-El

11-04-2009, 11:53 PM

I'm not speaking just of durability , but drivability

You haven't driven a Ford lately, have you? They are among the leaders in both categories.

Bob Dog

11-05-2009, 04:43 PM

They have no appeal to me what so ever

frownonfun

11-05-2009, 09:23 PM

imo almost everything ford makes is ugly. especially their trucks. so i wouldn't know about durability because i can't get past how unsightly their vehicles are.

TLyttle

11-05-2009, 11:00 PM

Gee, stupid me! Here I thought trucks were for working! I really don't care what it looks like, just as long as it gets the job done without breaking. By the way, if you think Ford trucks are ugly now, wait until the 2012s come out, truly a road-ready insult. Big, blind, and truly gross.

2+2

11-08-2009, 08:38 AM

As of Sept. 30, Ford’s total debt was $24.2 billion, but with future pension contributions and payments owed to a retiree health care fund, the company’s total financial obligations are about $35 billion.

taken from this article (http://www.freep.com/article/20091103/BUSINESS0102/91103068/1333/business01/Analysts-praise-Ford-for-restructuring-its-debt)

GM's and Chrysler's debt: just about zero. It's going to be interesting to watch how this plays out between the US automakers.

Btw, "government takeover" in the thread title reminds me, Jon Stewart did a hilarious impersonation of Glenn Beck the other night.

why?

11-09-2009, 12:22 AM

taken from this article (http://www.freep.com/article/20091103/BUSINESS0102/91103068/1333/business01/Analysts-praise-Ford-for-restructuring-its-debt)

GM's and Chrysler's debt: just about zero. It's going to be interesting to watch how this plays out between the US automakers.

Btw, "government takeover" in the thread title reminds me, Jon Stewart did a hilarious impersonation of Glenn Beck the other night.

Um, zero? I don't think so. Both companies owe US citizens everything. Any responsible government would've let them fail, and take the consequences. How much money are we going to waste on terrible companies? For the amount of money taxpayers have given them, we should all get free cars for life...

Mouse

11-09-2009, 05:03 PM

I'll take a Z06 or a new camaro please.

Bob Dog

11-09-2009, 05:59 PM

The Camaro gets 17 mpg in town , my Yaris gets 34 mpg. I believe I'll pass on the Camaro, thank you.

2+2

11-09-2009, 06:12 PM

For the amount of money taxpayers have given them, we should all get free cars for life...

That's socialism. You have completed the circle grasshopper and for that you may proceed to the next level. :w00t:

Sabretooth

11-09-2009, 06:13 PM

I hear alot of people bashing Ford, and bashing GM, but at least when Ford knows the messed up, they tried to pursue something better.

Look at their cars from the mid 1990's all crap...The Taurus broke down every 20,000 miles. Mustangs were slow, but somewhat reliable. Escorts were garbage inside and out.

It just seemed like that was the trend for the future.

If you look at a Ford Fusion today, and compare that to a Taurus, you would be dumbfounded it was even the spawn of the same company. Even Mustang drivers are glad to say that the newer models handle better than the older ones could, even with upgrades suspension. Ford finally is trying to put together an overall success story.

Reliability is up, quality is up, and the sales prove it. And the launch of types of cars that people want to buy is helping, The Transit is going to sell big here, like it or not. Once the Fiesta hits big here. I see Ford only making better quality cross-branded cars.

GM on the other hand, is staying with what they do, not really trying to fix it. Yet just "trimming the portfolio" is going to fix what they think is wrong.

Bob Dog

11-09-2009, 08:30 PM

I have to beg to differ about Escorts, they were boring as a car can be but reliable up to 160,000 if you remembered to put in a new timing belt at 80,000.

mr9865

11-09-2009, 09:15 PM

my escort was great (1999)

Kal-El

11-10-2009, 12:16 AM

Guess what Consumer Reports have found to be the 2nd and 3rd most reliable cars to be?

Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan. Surprised? Higher than any Lexus, Acura, Honda, and all but one Toyota.

Number one was the Prius.

Those that are still labeling Ford as junk sound very silly.